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Discuss the US Presidential Election
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Tue Nov 04, 2008 09:47 AM
from the end-of-the-road dept.
from the end-of-the-road dept.
We made it. It's election day. Tomorrow we'll know. So for today's election discussion story, I'm throwing it wide open: let's discuss the election itself. Who are your picks and why. And also what about your actual experience voting today? Did Diebold eat your vote or did everything go off without flaw?
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I'm only going to say (Score:5, Insightful)
... that I'm happy that it will be over at goddamn last.
Re:I'm only going to say (Score:5, Funny)
Psh. You know as well as I do that Palin's gonna start her 2012 bid tomorrow.
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Shhhh... (Score:5, Funny)
She kicked it off last Saturday [google.com].
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Re:I'm only going to say (Score:5, Insightful)
Whether or not Palin decides to pursue a post-election career as a national-level politician, the real damage has already been dealt to the Republican party. Her meteoric rise is only a slight clue into the inner turmoil of the GOP.
The 20+ years of neoconservative leadership has bankrupted the Republican party of its core conservative platform, and the pandering to the religious fundamentalists has turned off the moderates of the party. Those left are the ones who see Palin as more than she ever could be. She represents precisely the reasons why the Republican party is unable to attract new members and votes.
Which is not to say that the Republican party and its conservative ideals are without merit. The country at this time is severely divided, and it has been the steady hand promised by Obama that has been able to attract voters this year. However, most people believe in smaller government, in a government that is less intrusive, and in free markets. Where we may disagree is in degree, but at its core, the Republican stance has always been these three pillars.
That these pillars have been completely ignored in the actual implementation of policy is the primary reason so many are seeking answers elsewhere.
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Re: Palin in 2012 ??! (Score:5, Funny)
Is that what the Mayans forsaw, the event which caused the end of this round of civilization?
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Re:I'm only going to say (Score:5, Funny)
... that I'm happy that it will be over at goddamn last.
I'll miss it. I've grown up in this election, and when it's over I'll have no idea what to do. I remember when I was four or five years old, back around the time Reagan was elected and The Empire Stikes Back was drawing crowds, and Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had just started their campaigns. I remember coming out of the movie theater after seeing Back to the Future and seeing buses go by with competing Huckabee and Clinton banners on the side. I fondly recall during the first Gulf War and after September 11th the moving speeches by McCain and Obama.
Remember the Wendy's "Where's the Beef?" ads where McCain was enjoying a big square burger next to Clara Peller with her miniscule competing burger? Remember Hillary Clinton's break dancing extravaganza? Or when Seattle Grunge Artists for Obama did their tour in the early 90s and Kurt Cobain called Obama "the real spokesman for our generation?" My whole life was shaped by these campaigns. Tomorrow I may have to get a hobby.
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Re:I'm only going to say (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree but I still think we should get to slap the Slashdot admins every time they stick a Politics story under News.
They have a Politics category for a reason and I have it turned off for a reason!
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More importantly.... (Score:5, Insightful)
How about curtailing it a little next time lads?
(Speaking from an outside-US position) I've been following this whole thing with great interest since the Obama/Clinton things started - and going back a bit I stayed up all night watching the Gore/Bush thing - so I'm not knocking it.
But do you not think it's a bit long in the tooth at this stage? It's been pretty much going for two years and when you think about it, all you are doing is selecting one individual from a list of 30 or so - surely you don't need 2 years to make that decision.
Maybe some work needs to be done on limiting the scale of the thing - both in terms of time and of money, which is verging on the ridiculous too.
See you in 2 years time...
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FiveThirtyEight (Score:5, Interesting)
FiveThirtyEight.com jacked up Obama's odds of winning to 98.1%
I like those odds.
Re:FiveThirtyEight (Score:5, Funny)
The internet would be so annoying if he lost. All the people whining about it.
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Re:FiveThirtyEight (Score:5, Funny)
[quote]I think that's half the problem that's going to see. No matter who wins, there are going to be cries of fowl.[/quote]
Chicken! What sort of hawk would devolve to such a turkey stance? You're just pigeonholing the dodos out there.
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Obama (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Obama (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Obama (Score:5, Interesting)
Denmark, Norway and Sweden are stunning examples of what socialism really means. Some of the highest tax rates in the world, yet everybody is looked after so well. Education is of an exceptional standard, and every person from every background is given equal opportunity to do and become whatever they choose. It's basically social capitalism, by which I am implying that raw capitalism *in practice* is one of the most anti-social and dehumanising concepts on earth.
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Re:Obama (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Obama (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't get this socialist BS.
Bush spent 8 years imposing government rules on our daily lives, taking away civil liberties, inherent human rights, and personal privacy, and has rounded out his term by buying up (e.g. nationalizing) huge swaths of the mortgage/finance/banking industries.
If you want socialism, vote for the big-government republicans.
(Does anyone else miss small-gov't, pro-personal-liberties republicans? I'm a dyed in the wool liberal, but man am I ready for the neocon/religious right section of the GOP to dry up.)
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Obama - A template for future US politics? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Obama - A template for future US politics? (Score:5, Interesting)
Good luck with that. I really hope that Obama's presidency comes out as good a people think it will. I'm not so sure myself. I just don't see where Obama will have any near the level of support in congress to pull off his plans. He just hasn't been a political animal long enough.
I remember Jimmy Carter. He came in with pretty much the same promises that Obama has. Problem with him, like Obama, is he didn't have the political clout to pull it off. What we had was pretty much a lame duck in the Whitehouse for 4 years. That is what I see Obama's presidency is going to be about.
For the record I'm throwing my vote in with the libertarian party this time around.
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Re:Obama - A template for future US politics? (Score:5, Insightful)
"From day 1 the democrats were labeling McCain as Bush Jr.. if that's not negativity, then I don't know what is."
It isn't negative campaigning to point out the party, and its President, you are running against has completely sucked for 8 years. If the Republican's don't like that...... they shouldn't have sucked so bad for the last eight years. Its entirely their own fault they are losing, they had their chance, they controlled all the levers of power.... and they blew it. That is the whole idea of a campaign against an unpopular incumbent. Unfortunately for McCain he does in fact support the lion's share of things Bush did with the possible exception of torture, profligate spending and a mismanaged war. Though he originally opposed the Bush tax cuts for the rich, for the obvious reason that they created staggering deficits, he has since flip flopped and has been running on a campaign to make them permanent.
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Re:Obama - A template for future US politics? (Score:5, Insightful)
at least by my count, below-the-belt attacks were at an all time high.
Can you elaborate? What do you consider to be "below-the-belt"? People mocking her when she said stupid things? People pointing out her lack of experience and knowledge? People laughing at her un-presidential mannerisms and speech?
Some people command respect. Palin isn't one of them.
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No problem (Score:5, Informative)
Voted in western IL about 20 minutes ago. No lines (but lots of people), 8 polling booths, paper ballots filled out with a marker. A rather menacing-looking Diebold machine increased its displayed tally when I fed it my ballot.
All in all I hope everyone's voting experience was as painless as mine.
Voted!! (Score:5, Informative)
Small town in Iowa. Polls opened at 7am and I was there at 7:15. Polls were only 3 blocks away at local library, so walked. Seemed like everyone in line was excited to vote. Wait in line took about 15 minutes, voting took about 5. Used paper optically scanned ballot, though there was one electronic voting machine for people who felt like gambling.
Re:Voted!! (Score:5, Funny)
We'll see what the lines are like tomorrow, when it's the Republican's turn to vote! Don't get too cocky yet you crazy liberals!
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Cthulhu! (Score:5, Funny)
Why pick the lesser evil?
Obama's sense of responsability (Score:5, Insightful)
We're getting sick of the buck getting passed.
1 hour lines @ 7am (Score:5, Interesting)
Who are your picks and why.
Third party, since I don't like either main candidate. This happened to be Barr, since I figured he probably has the best (but unfortunately still very small) chance of getting enough votes to scare some sense into the duopoly.
And also what about your actual experience voting today?
I got there at almost exactly 7am (when the polls opened), and the line was almost exactly 1 hour (I finished voting and left at 8:05). There were 10 Diebold voting machines lined up along one wall with no privacy screens, just little flaps on the sides.
Did Diebold eat your vote or did everything go off without flaw?
Well, that's kinda hard to know, isn't it? (Some might say that's kinda the point of buying from Diebold.)
In Illinois... (Score:5, Interesting)
...I had the option of either voting by electronic machine or paper ballot. As you might imagine, I chose paper ballot for the simple reason that it leaves unchangeable records. Electronic voting machines are far too easy to manipulate or are far too likely to have glitches. (Especially the Diebold machines based on Microsoft Access.)
The downside is that the Illinois ballots are *bleep*ing insane! First, there's no simple checkbox. Instead, you have these bizarre arrows you have to fill in. i.e.:
You are supposed to draw a line for the vote you want to cast. e.g.:
Which is then complicated by a list of about a bazillion judges to vote in or out of office. No judge runs against another judge, so you simply fill out the arrow or you don't. Incumbent judges have a "Yes/No" option to possibly vote them out of office.
I got up pretty early this morning, so it ended up taking more time to fill out these super-ballots than it did to wait in line. I then went home and listened to WGN ponder why it was taking Obama so long to vote for himself. Perhaps someone should show them one of these ballots! :-P
Florida voting smooth so far (Score:5, Insightful)
Called my dad this morning and he said they were in and out in an hour. About 35 people in line but it went fast. He said the poll workers were really helpful and seemed well organized. I'm sure it's not going that well everywhere but the news isn't all bad.
If the Republicans get crushed and lose Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, I wonder if they're going to clean house or keep on with same failed people and platform that put them in the tank? Or if they'll blame Palin and minority turn out?
Election? (Score:5, Funny)
Election? What election?
I pride myself on keeping apprised of current events, but I wasn't aware of an election today.
Who is running and for what position?
Srsly, whoever this CmdrTaco is who posted the story should at least give us this basic information in the summary.
Bias Language on Ballots (Score:5, Informative)
dixville notch (Score:5, Interesting)
most of us know it as the tiny hamlet clser to montreal than anything else in far northern new hampshire that releases its election results shortly after midnight on election day (since there is only 21 people voting there)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixville_Notch,_New_Hampshire#Midnight_voting_tradition [wikipedia.org]
quaint and pointless mostly. this year, they landslided for obama (15 for obama to 6 for mccain)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7707667.stm [bbc.co.uk]
why is that notable?
in all previous elections, back to 1968, they landslided republican
so that's an interesting changeup, north country new hampshire, solidly republican, giving us a glimpse of a new trend?
portent of things to come later this evening for the rest of us perhaps?
Myths and urban legends (Score:5, Interesting)
McCain [snopes.com]
Obama [snopes.com]
Joe Biden [snopes.com]
Sarah Palin [snopes.com]
Slot machines... (Score:5, Interesting)
Just a thought, from a guy who used to work on gambling ("gaming") systems back in the 90s--your average 20-year-old slot machine is light years ahead of a current voting terminal, in terms of the independent multiple party audit capability, internal logging requirements, tamper detection, and ruggedness.
Me, I'll be demanding a paper ballot at my polling place.
Don't blame me (Score:5, Funny)
I voted for Kodos.
Re:John Galt (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:McCain FTW (Score:5, Funny)
McCain FTW
"Fails To Win"?
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Re:McCain FTW (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:McCain FTW (Score:5, Interesting)
I find your intolerance intolerable.
It's outstanding how in an election where I didn't start off hating either candidate, McCain's choice of talking points (and running mate) brought me to the point of incoherent spitting fury...I had to read the transcripts of the last few debates because I couldn't stand to actually listen.
I just refuse to vote for someone who ran a filthy campaign whose only issue was "the other guy sucks." That's my favorite logical fallacy, the "argument from ignorance": the other guy is bad, so we must be better.
McCain was a guy I'd have voted for in 2000...Hell, I did vote for him in the primary. And I think this country wouldn't be worse off if he'd been president for the last 8 years. But he sold his soul for the brass ring this time around, and that level of intellectual whoredom I cannot abide.
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Re:McCain FTW (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:No secret ballot? (Score:5, Informative)
The fact that you voted is not secret. Only who you picked is.
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Re:Lines (Score:5, Informative)
My question is this: Why are the lines so long? I voted in the Canadian federal election a few weeks ago, I stood in line for no more than 10 minutes and I'm in a very large riding in downtown Montreal..
If I was told I had to wait several hours to vote, I'd be very mad.
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Re:switfboat (Score:5, Insightful)
"I am actually surprised McCain didn't try to switfboat this election."
Are you kidding? They've been running Jeremiah Wright saying "Goddamn America" steadily on DirectTV the last couple days.
Did you get the Republican party robocall about Ayers, that basically said Obama was a bomb throwing terrorist who would bomb the Pentagon.
Did you see Sarah Palin saying Obama "pal'ed around with terrorists".
As soon as McCain fired his old advisors and replaced them with people who ran Bush's campaign they adopted all the same Swift Boat tactics and it completely turned Independents, like me, against McCain, that and picking a right wing nut like Palin.
So they did try to Swift boat Obama it just didn't gain any traction because people are sick of the tactics and recognize them for what they are, fear mongering for power. The country and the media are also sick of Republicans. Bush has one great accomplishment in eight years, something I predicted when he won in 2004, that by the end of this second term we would completely turn the country against the New Republican party, an intolerant, far right party, dominated by evangelicals. A party pandering to the rich and manipulating a bunch of not so bright middle class supporters in to voting for them using abortion, homophobia and fear, manipulating not to bright middle class people in to voting for a party that is completely screwing them economically. Let's hope its finally over. Now we just have to worry about all the stupidity the Democrats will perpetrate when they are in control.
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Re:switfboat (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, one, the concept of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" isn't from Marx. The popularization of that formulation might have come from Marx, but you'll find the same spirit occurring far earlier in history - in early Christian communitarianism, for example.
It's an interesting commentary on how skewed the politics in America have gotten that the idea of a graduated income tax is controversial, or that the idea of raising taxes on those best able to afford it in times of fiscal crisis is somehow a socialist plot.
If you look at Obama's tax proposals, he calls for rolling back the Bush tax cuts and providing some (modest) tax cuts for the middle and lower classes. That's not Marxist or especially radical. Likely you've never actually read Marx (or anything beyond the Communist Manifesto). Pity. Marx actually has a lot of very interesting, insightful commentary about history, economics, and society. You may not agree with all his conclusions, but the man was a very careful, educated scholar.
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Strictly speaking... (Score:5, Interesting)
If Obama were a Marxist (which is a laughable concept when you take the world view) then you wouldn't be paying tax, you would be returning that which you had stolen from the working classes.
And while we're on the subject I would definitely argue that a negative income tax isn't Marxist or Socialist - the idea was invented by Milton Friedman, the darling economist of those notorious lefties Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.
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Re:switfboat (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, Adam Smith (the guy who basically invented Capitalism) was also in favor of the rich being taxed at a higher rate than the poor, so that's not a good argument.
True Socialism is more about community property and state ownership of businesses than it is about progressive taxation.
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Re:switfboat (Score:5, Informative)
You bitch slapped him with an invisible hand!
At the end of the 6th paragraph [adamsmith.org]
This is otherwise referred to as a progressive tax [google.com]. It's not actually that bad of an idea. Compare to regressive tax [google.com].
It is such a good idea that, in fact, John McCain himself [youtube.com] advocated for a progressive tax system, back in 2000.
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Re:switfboat (Score:5, Informative)
No, he called him one for wanting to increase income taxes on people who do pay income taxes and then write checks to people who don't.
Fixed that for you. If you claim that he's giving money to people who don't pay taxes at all, you are spreading a common misconception. Sorry.
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Re:switfboat (Score:5, Insightful)
No, he called him one for wanting to increase taxes on people who do pay taxes and then write checks to people who don't.
Isn't this "Marxist" type of negative tax one of the basic principles of the state governed by McCain's running mate?
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Re: Is prolife was really what's about "right?" (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:My Opinion (From an Anabaptist Perspective) (Score:5, Insightful)
some people simply like fairy tales so much they can't tell that its just not real
Not that there's anything wrong with that. We all believe fairy tales that make life easier. I choose to believe that people are basically decent individuals and will eventually reach mutually beneficial objectives via consensus and co-operation. He believes that there is an invisible man in the sky who loves him. There isn't much evidence to support either of our fairy tales, but they help both of us participate in society.
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