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Copper Thieves Jeopardize US Infrastructure
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Dec 03, 2008 03:26 PM
from the reloaders-all-well-aware dept.
from the reloaders-all-well-aware dept.
coondoggie supplies an excerpt from Network World that might make you consider a lock for your pipes: "The FBI today ratcheted up the clamor to do something more substantive about the monumental growth of copper theft in the US. In a report issued today the FBI said the rising theft of the metal is threatening the critical infrastructure by targeting electrical substations, cellular towers, telephone land lines, railroads, water wells, construction sites, and vacant homes for lucrative profits. Copper thefts from these targets have increased since 2006; and they are currently disrupting the flow of electricity, telecommunications, transportation, water supply, heating, and security and emergency services, and present a risk to both public safety and national security." (A July, 2006 post on Ethan Zuckerman's blog gives an idea of how widespread cable theft has affected internet infrastructure, and basketmaking, in Africa.)
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Special license... (Score:5, Interesting)
If you had to be an official 'something' or licensed...that would stop a lot of criminals I'd think?
Re:Special license... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Special license... (Score:5, Interesting)
If I go to a recycler here in Fresno with much more than half a bag they are going to ask me where I work or where I got the wire. They even call employers to ensure the employees have permission to sell the wire. They generally have quit taking wire from people with shopping carts...
We have lost in this area just "Fresno" around 14 miles of wire in a very short period of time. And to quantify this even further that is ONLY the wire ran by the state. This does not include city or county lighting losses. We've had the same intersections robbed 4-5 times. Yes we have police watching them but they can only do so much.
Now something else to consider. These idiots who are stealing this wire are taking it from energized signals. We have battery backups and LED lights in our signals however that means nothing when you can't get a signal from the backup to the light pole because the wire is gone. Now we have an extremely dangerous situation. A Dark Signal. No flashing red no lights. No streetlights depending on how much wire is gone. All we need is a fatality to hang some dumbass bum with a murder charge. Not only that the governing entity will probably get a lawsuit for not having a lit intersection. It's a BAD BAD THING(tm)
So to resolve this problem we now buy Aluminum wire. As anyone who has worked with aluminum wire can attest this is not really a good solution electrically. However Fiscally it does work as the thieves are at least less likely to continue cutting an intersection apart once they realize it's not copper.
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Alternate Solution (Score:5, Interesting)
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We need a law (Score:5, Funny)
I upgraded my copper plumbing and installed PVC everywhere I could. Then I asked my electrician to upgrade my copper wiring to PVC, and the bastard refused.
Them electricians are in league with the copper lobbies, I tall you. I hope they'll make a Federal law to mandate PVC wires!
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Re:Special license... (Score:5, Funny)
So if I replace the pipes in my house I need a license to recycle them?
Maybe if you needed a license to post on Slashdot, there would be less stupid comments.
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Re:Special license... (Score:5, Funny)
fewer stupid comments
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Re:Special license... (Score:4, Interesting)
...and while you're at it, let's just expand the idea to suggest you must bear the mark of the beast before you should be allowed to buy or sell anything.
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Re:Special license... (Score:5, Interesting)
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cooper theft (Score:5, Funny)
Better leave those barrel makers alone!
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Re:Special license... (Score:5, Informative)
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US Pennies Made of Zinc (Score:4, Informative)
Not really. Since 1982, US pennies have been 97.5% zinc, with a copper coating [wikipedia.org].
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Re:Special license... (Score:4, Insightful)
I have a better idea, find a more productive way for these individuals to make money. Ripping up copper is hard, and often dangerous work that pays for shit. Considering that these people are willing to do hard work for shitty pay, lets give them a job installing copper instead of tearing it down.
Yes, there's some portion of society that's unemployable. Convicted criminals, drug addicts, etc. So what? If we don't provide them alternatives, they will do what they have to do to get by. This is a choice we have to make as a society. Do we lose more by providing jobs to the unreliable, or by allowing them to rob us blind?
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Re:Special license... (Score:5, Insightful)
Kinda hard to insinuate that a theft of materials for purely financial gain is somehow intended to strike fear into the hearts of the populace.
Or are you just following the knee-jerk reaction to label "anything sufficiently disliked" as "terrorism"?
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Re:Special license... (Score:5, Insightful)
Theft of materials might not be terrorism, but destruction of infrastructures to get said materials should at least be labeled vandalism.
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Re:Special license... (Score:4, Insightful)
destruction of infrastructures to get said materials should at least be labeled vandalism.
I think a more appropriate term might be sabotage.
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Re:Special license... (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, if we start labeling everything terrorism, maybe we'll get over our national obsession with it sooner and pols won't be able to manipulate us so easily by using that word.
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Re:Special license... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Special license... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Special license... (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe it's time to consider copper theft an act of terrorism?
At least in the cases when infrastructure is threatened.
Maybe it's time to consider those who use current topics on the minds of the people to pass stupid laws and ruin the country "Traitors"!
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Some Darwin awars ready and waiting (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Some Darwin awars ready and waiting (Score:5, Interesting)
On many parts of a substation, insulation wouldn't matter.
A friend of mine is the chief engineer for an array of power plants in the area. Apparently he once found the exploded body of a guy who had opened up a 20,000V feeder and was using a screwdriver and a pair of pliers, both insulated. He was dead before the tools ever came into contact with the transformer coils.
I believe three limbs were broken off by the arc, one arm and both legs, all cauterized so that there was surprisingly little blood.
The copper thieves have been very successful though: in what he believes was an inside job, some people entered a mothballed plant through a tunnel from a nearby substation and took about $20,000 worth of copper from lines that came directly off of the generator. I believe there were tens of feet of this wire, about 1-2" in diameter, that they removed in chunks and transported out underground.
The worst case, however, was a bit more scary. At one point some copper thieves got into the same mothballed plant, found a locked door, turned on a forklift and rammed the door with the forklift until the forklift fell down some nearby stairs and got stuck. DHS then got interested in the plant since had the thief made it into this room, he would have been able to shut down power for the entire city of Pittsburgh (the plant was mothballed, but the substation controls in this room were active)! Now the plant's fitted with IR cameras and anyone who gets spotted is likely to be answering some questions courtesy of the DHS cowboys.
~Ben
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Plumbing out of house stolen (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Plumbing out of house stolen (Score:5, Interesting)
Had some friends in a landscaping, odd jobs business where they were knocking down an old building and trying to save what was worth scraping for the owner to offset costs of a new building somewhat.
So they had some scrapers come by while they were knocking down a section of the building, who started picking up stuff from their scrap pile and throwing it on their truck. When they were asked what they thought they were doing (getting caught), they unloaded the stuff and had a laugh about it saying they'd just be back later.
So the guys knocking the place down parked their back-hoe across the only real entrance to the place and parked other machinery on top of the scrap piles. When they came in the next day, the windows were broken out of their equipment and someone had shit in the cabs of the equipment.
Guys are akin to organized crime in some areas, they work in little teams and do that kinda stuff if you stop them from taking what they think is theirs.
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Re:Plumbing out of house stolen (Score:5, Insightful)
Not when copper prices fall through the floor thanks to the implosion of the construction boom. If there's no demand for the stuff, the price goes way down.
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Don't Pay Cash (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Don't Pay Cash (Score:4, Insightful)
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Old News. (Score:5, Interesting)
As an anecdote, there was a construction site we were working on where the plumbers painted all the copper pipes black, to make them look like steel pipes, to thwart would-be thieves during construction where access to the building is very easy.
Re:Old News. (Score:5, Informative)
Yep. Copper prices have dropped considerably in the past few months:
http://www.metalprices.com/FreeSite/metals/cu/cu.asp [metalprices.com]
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problem solved? (Score:5, Informative)
This is one problem I figured the current administration had fixed.
http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/copper_historical_large.html#6months [kitcometals.com]
Tank the housing market, and copper isn't needed, the price falls, not worth steeling.
But thieves are apparently slow learners.
High Voltage (Score:5, Funny)
Just charge up _all_ the copper to at least 50KV. Copper theft will become self-punishing. However, taking a shower will get quite risky.
Tragic... (Score:5, Interesting)
When I was stationed in Balad, Iraq I volunteered at the base hospital. We mostly just helped unload the choppers and what not, sometimes walk around and chat with the patients. Balad was the biggest hospital in theatre so the worst cases eventually made their way there for stabilization before being sent to Germany or sent home (in the case of Iraqis).
Anyways, I must have seen one or two patients a week come in with severe electrical burns from trying to steal copper wire, most of the time it was kids.
So its not ALWAYS some idiot out to make a quick buck...people can just get desperate.
Re:Tragic... (Score:5, Insightful)
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aluminum (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:aluminum (Score:4, Insightful)
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A fair exchange (Score:4, Funny)
The utter selfishness of what the thieves do is mind-boggling.
I'm not entirely against trading their haul of copper for a small quantity of lead.
capitalism at work (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, this is the free market at work! Why is everyone upset about this? If it wasn't for government regulation we wouldn't have this problem! And now our godless heathen communist government wants to arrest people for simply trying to put those goods back into production? How shameful -- these "criminals" are really the unsung heroes of these regulated markets.
.
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warning: contains sarcasm.
Re:capitalism at work (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, the basic premise of Capitalism is that if you have some resources, some capital, if you will (like, say, US dollars, or copper pipes) you get to keep them and invest them in something which will (hopefully) bring you something of value in the future (like, say, a small business, or stock of a big business, or the warmth/comfort/enjoyment of your home).
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just went through it (Score:5, Interesting)
I just went through a process of buying a house. I limited myself to $50k cash total with the intent of doing most of the repairs myself. This limited me to HUD and foreclosures. One thing that was a common denominator of all houses listed by HUD was every piece of copper; AC unit, water heater, pipes, fixtures, and electric wires, were completely striped. I was amazed at the efficiency of many of the robberies. Only a few had holes punched randomly in the walls like someone searching for cable and pipes. The vast majority looked as if someone took the time to walk through the house with a metal detector and surgically removed everything. It made me wonder if someone did just watch for houses to hit the HUD list then rob them.
Ignorant thieves ... (Score:4, Informative)
We need more incidents like these [edmontonsun.com].
The site was clearly labeled with electrical warning signs, yet the idiot still went ahead with attempting to steal the wiring. Long story short, he probably will pay a little more attention to signs...
you have sit on scrap dealers (Score:4, Insightful)
that's the choke point
you're not going to stop heroin junkies, you're not going to secure theft sites
scrap dealers need to be bound up in red tape, and then scrap dealers who skirt the ordinances must be dealt with harshly. you don't have to worry about international or interstate transport, as you are going to destroy your profit margin on what usually amounts to less than $100 for a lot of heavy metal, and you are not usually dealing with criminal masterminds here who would exert the effort. nor do they have the resources to melt it down themselves
the scrap dealer is the point at which illegal goods get turned into legal goods and profit. scrap dealers therefore are going to have to be tied up in laws and regulations in order to stop this trade, and watched like hawks. chain of custody regulations must be put in place: if you use a bunch of metal, you have to produce paperwork detaling where it came from
City lights (Score:4, Informative)
In Chandler, AZ park lights have had the wire removed for miles. The problem is that it cannot be stopped by law enforcement, which means it pretty much cannot be stopped at all.
Someone sees some wire, they take the wire and get cash. Nobody wants to infringe upon the rights of the scrap dealers, so accepting of wire from just about anyone is going to continue. We now have people that in order to buy their next HD TV are ripping out the wires to street lights, homes, and anywhere else that wire can be obtained.
It is an easy way to get cash with very limited risks.
bahaha! (Score:5, Funny)
..."currently disrupting the flow of electricity"
just remember.... (Score:5, Insightful)
As we're condemning these thieves for being fucking assholes, tearing down their own community's infrastructure for the scrap value, just remember that the only difference between them and the financial wizards and CEO's who brought us into our current crisis is a matter of scale.
Just In Time! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:3rd world nation (Score:5, Insightful)
This is due to the difference in income status between the rich and the poor in the US. The rich need the valuable infrastructure. The poor just need to live.
Absolute rubbish. The US is far from the Paris depicted in "Les Miserables", where the poor have to steal to live. These people are doing it because they think it will put them on the fast track to make them rich. Having an LCD television or supporting a drug habit is not "needing to live".
To think I almost cried at the plight of the "poor" in America after reading your post. NOT. I live in the REAL 3rd world, and I see REAL poverty every day.
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Re:3rd world nation (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:I might buy your story in New Jersey (Score:5, Funny)
My dad worked at an RCA location in scenic Gibbsboro, New Jersey in the 70's. They made television transmitter antennas there, and decided to put up a chain link fence around the place. One weekend, the fence was stolen.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, someone stole a security fence.
Tony Soprano bought his kids Nikes with that. Except, in my neck of the woods, the family was called "Forte."
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Re:3rd world nation (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Unsuprising (Score:5, Insightful)
What "fucked up" system are you talking about?
The one where money earns money faster than labor can. The one where a minimum wage worker can be fired for being 10 minutes late one day, but the CEO that drives his company into the ground gets millions of dollars in bonuses. The one that incarcerates a greater proportion of its population than any other country in the world. If you haven't noticed how fucked up America is, you simply haven't been paying attention.
Yes, people are responsible for their own actions. But they don't act in a vacuum. Nobody would choose to steal copper from a live power station if they had other alternatives. We can either give them alternatives, or we can watch this kind of criminal behavior continue. That's our choice as a society, and we're going to have to live with the consequences. Which would be least costly?
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