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iPlayer Released for Mac, Linux; Adobe Announces AIR for Linux

Posted by timothy on Thu Dec 18, 2008 05:03 PM
from the rich-buttery-web-apps dept.
Zoxed writes "The BBC reports that their iPlayer has just been released for Mac and Linux (download page). It is based on Adobe Air, but unfortunately the service is only available to UK IP address, so I can not test it out from my adopted homeland of Germany. Perhaps a UK-based Slashdotter could review it?" In related news, an anonymous reader writes "Adobe has announced a Linux version of its AIR 1.5 runtime environment that is supposed to allow rich web apps developed on it to run on Fedora Core 8, Ubuntu 7.10 and openSuse 10.3 with no modification. The company released versions for Windows and Mac OS X back in November."
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  • Could you use a UK-based proxy and download the player?
  • Are there any commercial or free proxy servers which one could use to access the BBC-UK site ?

  • I'm not a pro with flash development, but given the advances that javascript, CSS and DHTML are making, combined with stuff like squirrelfish extreme and the canvas object, how much potential does flash still have ? don't get me wrong : I don't want to go on a flash-bashing parade here ! I'm just wondering if the current state of javascript in modern browsers isn't up-to-par with flash for 90% of whatever flash is doing right now. The only advantages of flash are code-protection and vector graphics. But I
    • by Alistair Hutton (889794) on Thursday December 18 2008, @05:24PM (#26166273) Homepage
      Lots. The advantage the Flash Player has over Javascript, CSS and DHTML is the when I code something for the Flash Player I know what my 1 single target platform is. When I code for the browser I'm coding for x number of subtly incompatible targets. Yes, libraries can abstract away that to a degree but not wit the ease of (the admittedly closed source) Flpash Player. Plus the player has lots of bells and whistles that frankly are really nice to use.
        • Abstraction and cross-platform targeting are both "lazy" and "smart."

          I mean, we could all write code in assembly language for every architecture we could ever want. Or we could use Flash/.NET/Java/whatever to target everything we might conceivably want with less hassle. Tough choice, that.

    • Air/Flash License (Score:5, Informative)

      by ink (4325) * on Thursday December 18 2008, @05:32PM (#26166375) Homepage

      Additionally, Air and Flash have some hefty licensing restrictions. From Adobe:

      For the avoidance of doubt, and by example only, Distributor shall not distribute any Adobe Runtime for use on any (a) mobile device, set top box (STB), handheld, phone, web pad, tablet or Tablet PC (other than Windows XP Tablet PC Edition and its successors), game console, TV, DVD player, media center (other than Windows XP Media Center Edition and its successors), electronic billboard or other digital signage, internet appliance or other internet-connected device, PDA, medical device, ATM, telematic device, gaming machine, home automation system, kiosk, remote control device, or any other consumer electronics device, (b) operator-based mobile, cable, satellite, or television system or (c) other closed system device. For information on licensing Adobe Runtimes for use or distribution on devices see http://www.adobe.com/licensing [adobe.com].

      So, they can call it "free" all they want, but it isn't even free-as-in-beer free.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Adobe spends money to develop these technologies as does Microsoft. They are not going to hand out that much for free, even as in beer.

        I wish every developer would look past proprietary things like Flash and AIR and use web standards instead, but I know this will never happen.

        • Re:Air/Flash License (Score:4, Informative)

          by ink (4325) * on Thursday December 18 2008, @08:49PM (#26168267) Homepage

          I wish every developer would look past proprietary things like Flash and AIR and use web standards instead, but I know this will never happen.

          MythTV can't legally use this product -- and not for lame patent reasons, but for copyright laws (it's a set-top box). We'll be stuck with Adobe's runtime until an open standard takes off. Developers can indeed "look past" proprietary things like Flash. They do it all the time when they develop for the web, and they take it for granted until things like this happen. Hopefully HTML5 will use an unencumbered standard for audio and video (such as Ogg/Vorbis). That, coupled with SVG and traditional web technologies would give us the "run time" that we need to keep the web free.

            • Re:Air/Flash License (Score:5, Interesting)

              by FishWithAHammer (957772) on Thursday December 18 2008, @10:36PM (#26168943)

              Too bad Theora sucks.

              (And to head off the "OMG TROLL!" screams: Vorbis is an extremely good audio format, and one I use myself in my own projects because the libraries for it are reasonably good and easy to handle--but Theora is an absolute shit video format compared to pretty much everything else in common use.)

      • Re:Air/Flash License (Score:5, Informative)

        by chrb (1083577) on Thursday December 18 2008, @07:53PM (#26167897)

        iPlayer-Downloader [po-ru.com] has no licensing restrictions and no DRM :-)

    • by Toonol (1057698) on Thursday December 18 2008, @05:32PM (#26166387)
      Actionscript 3.0 is really a pretty decent language, on par with the newest versions of javascript... and DHTML/CSS doesn't come close to the power of the flash graphics API. A decent flash game, for instance, can look & play better than most Super Nintendo games; DHTML/Javascript is still pushing hard to look like an original NES. Both, of course, are hundreds of times slower than native applications.

      Flash has its problems, obviously; it breaks the whole browsing paradigm. However, there's just nothing else out there right now with the same mix of capabilities; it has its niche. (Maybe java applets, but those universally suck. Maybe Silverlight could, but nobody seriously uses it.)
    • Sound and video for starters.

      And that's what iPlayer does.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Flash allows socket connections, data binding for true persistent state across an application, full complete support for managed vector graphics; audio; video; 3D objects and environments, local storage, remote shared storage (shared between users) and all of it is cross platform/browser.

      Some of these can be addressed by running special server apps (a Comet server for socket connections, ie: push data to the client rather than pull from the server or polling from the server) or by using cutting edge browser

  • by whoever57 (658626) on Thursday December 18 2008, @05:22PM (#26166243) Journal

    Adobe has announced a Linux version of its AIR 1.5 runtime environment that is supposed to allow rich web apps developed on it to run on Fedora Core 8, Ubuntu 7.10 ...

    Isn't this release just in time for support of those 2 versions to be discontinued?

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      Those are the minimum supported versions
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Don't know about Ubuntu, but for Fedora, stuff that works with Fedora N doesn't necessarily work with Fedora (N + 1). They sometimes make rapid changes between releases and you'll have to do a lot of reconfiguration.

  • by slummy (887268) <[shawnuth] [at] [gmail.com]> on Thursday December 18 2008, @05:25PM (#26166281) Homepage
    I am on the Adobe Pre-release program and I've been testing AIR Linux since it was in engdrop form, it's never installed on Slackware or Sabayon. When will they release a version that will install across all distros? Nobody knows.
  • by ducomputergeek (595742) on Thursday December 18 2008, @05:27PM (#26166299) Homepage

    I have to say it's decent approach to the problem of deploying Web Apps. Granted we did all the backend work connecting the Flex/Air front end to the database using AMFPHP, but it's definitely a decent platform for web applications and hybrid web/desktop apps. However it still suffers one flaw: it requires a third party platform that doesn't run on everything. (think mobile devices)

    I see the Support OpenSuSE 10.3, but what about 11 and 11.1 (currently downloading the ISO).

    The other approach is what Google and Apple are taking with HTML/Javascript based web applications that try to be browser/standards compliant. The entity that figures out how to make it work as a standalone desktop app has a winner.

    • by moreati (119629) <alex.moreati@org@uk> on Thursday December 18 2008, @06:23PM (#26167001) Homepage

      Sorry to pick on you, but this is a bugbear of mine.

      Applications written in AIR/Silverlight/whatever are not web applications. They're thick client applications that happen to use a bit of http and javascript.

      Web applications run in web browsers. Not in one particular browser, and not in a third party runtime.

      I'm glad AIR was a good fit for your problem.

  • by frieko (855745) on Thursday December 18 2008, @05:30PM (#26166347)
    I'm glad all the whining us Linux fans are doing is paying off. Everybody's jumping on the Linux-supporting bandwagon, if only to stop us from telling all our friends and relatives and strangers that $COMPANY are a bunch of evil meanie heads.
    • It's not the "whining" it's the fact that there are already millions of Linux users, companies think twice to restricting access to million of potential clients.

  • by Wizard Drongo (712526) on Thursday December 18 2008, @06:09PM (#26166837)

    The 3rd party ones are better. No DRM, no AIR....

    www.lawrencedudley.co.uk/iplayer

    Disclaimer: I helped make that on. But it IS good.
    We'll be making iTunes playlist support soon....

      • Actually, it's usage can't be illegal; all it does is allow you to watch the content available to iPhone users.
        Of course you can't save stuff on the iPhone, but the BBC offers these downloads. We just allow you to get them. Kinda like changing your browsers user-agent.

        I paid my licence fee, I can tape stuff off the TV. Why the hell do they use DRM when they already allow you access??

            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              iPlayer does include a lot of externally provided content, it's just that people don't realise that this isn't internally producted. Just as a couple of popular examples take Have I Got News For You (Made by Hattrick), and Spooks (A Kudos production). This is ignoring things like The Apprentice which is BBC produced but as is it's based on a US property the distribution agreements are likely to be draconian. In order to keep the license agreement the BBC did end up agreeing to buy-in a certain percentage
  • by TheRealJFM (671978) on Thursday December 18 2008, @11:02PM (#26169153) Homepage Journal

    I've installed AIR and the iPlayer downloader, and so far neither have really worked.

    Granted this is probably because I'm using 64-bit Linux, and they don't seem to support it yet (not that I was told this at any stage of the installation process, or the website where I downloaded the installer.

    To get the thing installed on 64-bit I followed these instructions [adobe.com], and then proceeded to the BBC website to download something. Nothing seemed to work, no download links appeared. I then followed the links to an episode of Never Mind The Buzzcocks that other people reported was working. This time a download link appeared, but clicking it took me to install the program again.

    To figure out why it wasn't working, I ran the downloader from the command line. It was printing the following: "Unkown desktop manager((null)), only Gnome and KDE are supported". Aha... I'm using XFCE, yet it must use the inter-process communication of either one of those desktops...

    Booted into Gnome, and tried again. This time it tells me that it wants libgnome-keyring.so - I realise that no preferences are savable - it must be saving prefs with the keyring. I think that's a bit odd - what's wrong with ~/.Adobe/AIR?

    After installing 32-bit libraries for gnome-keyring, the thing still doesn't work, and still won't download anything.

    The problem with this application, or rather with Adobe AIR, is the series of arbitrary choices the designers seem to have made. Linux is not a platform where you can assume many things - and it would have probably made more sense to pick some generic ways of getting things done (there's a reason that text-files have always been used for config!) rather than relying upon fairly specific libraries for basic tasks and then not even falling back to a sane alternative. Perhaps a 64-bit version will fix all of this, I certainly hope so!

  • Titanium (Score:3, Interesting)

    by _marshall (71584) on Friday December 19 2008, @01:49AM (#26170007) Homepage

    Not sure if anyone here has seen us yet .. but Titanium is an open source/open web alternative to AIR that just had it's first Preview Release (PR1) a week ago. We currently support OSX and Windows , and are hard at work refactoring and getting a Linux release into the fold for our PR2 release in January.

    We're licensed under ASL and using lots of open source techs (WebKit, Chromium, Gears, libXML, to name a few).. come check us out!
    http://github.com/marshall/titanium/tree/master [github.com]
    http://titaniumapp.com/ [titaniumapp.com]

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      It's not a fail at all. It's legally required! They have paid for the rights to show the content only to brits (who paid for it with their TV license and taxes). So this is a service for the british taxpayers who paid for it. Quite reasonable really.

      Now, if they could license the iPlayer tech to other broadcasters running similar schemes (here in NZ, that's ALL of them), that would be cool and a great way to recoup some of that cost for the taxpayers.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          I'd pay the tax in return for online access to all of the BeeB's stuff.

        • To be fair people outside of the UK pay for the programmes they watch via advertising. Even going to the BBC website in a non-UK country should yield ads.

          So the question is, have non-British people paid for iPlayer through advertising or not? If not, then why not give them iPlayer but with ads?
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Because then it'd give way to British people wanting ads instead of the license tax...er...I mean fee. The BBC have a good thing going revenue-wise and they'll not let up. I'd love for it to become subscription or advert payrolled but this would mean the BBC have to work for their money.

            All BBC programmes are paid for with the license fee money, not advertising. IIRC any advertising outside of the UK to non-British audiences is because the BBC sold a show overseas (and the buyer network is the one advertisi

                • There are 3 types of show on the bbc:
                  1) BBC produced, the bbc obviously have complete rights to these, but make a fair amount of money from selling these to foreign companies. As they make money (a.k.a save the taxpayers money) by selling these to foreign companies, they don't want to put this online as it would harm their revenue (a.k.a the taxpayers have to foot more of the bill).
                  2) Independently produced by uk companies, these have to make up something like 10-15% of all shows, the bbc will buy limited r

    • Why? We pay for it...?
    • I've got flash 10 installed, it's not telling me to upgrade. Check your about:plugins.

      That said, I don't see a download option though I do get a high quality flash version. I'm installing Adobe AIR now to see if that makes any difference.
    • by MichaelSmith (789609) on Thursday December 18 2008, @05:45PM (#26166563) Homepage Journal
      Even on windows I have seen flash sites tell me that I need to upgrade flash to (say) version 9 because I was already running version 10.

      Thats what happens when you get teenagers to do your configuration management.
      • We should go on a Troll Roll:

        You don't frighten us English Pig-dogs!
        Go and boil your bottoms, sons of a silly person.
        I blow my nose at you ...
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      I am disappointed that all distros quoted are "old" versions of their existing ones strictly speaking. Why do software companies do this all the time?

      Err... Because those are the minimum supported versions? It would be like if a program came out that only ran on Vista, not XP everyone would really question the reason why. Similarly, its not bad that it doesn't require Ubuntu 8.10 to be installed, its quite good in fact that it doesn't.

    • provided you distribute closed-source software, you can get a sort of drm working under linux. an expert will tell you how difficult it is to crack this though.