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Legal Troubles Continue To Mount For Diebold
Posted by
Soulskill
on Thu Dec 25, 2008 09:20 AM
from the voted-off-the-island-with-no-recount dept.
from the voted-off-the-island-with-no-recount dept.
dstates writes "The State of Maryland has filed a $8.5M claim against Premier Election Systems (previously known as Diebold), joining Ohio in seeking damages from the company. The claim alleges that election officials were forced to spend millions of dollars to address multiple security flaws in the machines. Previously, Diebold paid millions to settle a California lawsuit over security issues in their machines. The dispute comes as Maryland and Virginia prepare to scrap the touch screen electronic voting systems they bought after the 2000 presidential election. California, Florida, New Mexico, and Iowa have already switched to optical scanners, and voters in Pennsylvania are suing to prevent the use of paperless electronic voting systems in their state. Meanwhile, Artifex Software is suing Diebold for violations of the GPL covering the Ghostscript software technology used in the proprietary voting machines."
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Your Rights Online: Ohio Sues Over Missing Electronic Votes 341 comments
dstates writes "The Columbus Post Dispatch reports that the State of Ohio is suing Premier Election Systems (previously known as Diebold) over malfunctions in electronic voting machines. Election workers found that votes were 'dropped' in at least 11 counties when memory cards were uploaded to computer servers. The same voting machines are used nationwide. The company blames a conflict between their software and antivirus software for the problem and says that an advisory was issued on the subject. The Ohio lawsuit contends that the company made false representations and failed to live up to contractual obligations and seeks punitive damages."
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Ho! Ho! Ho! (Score:5, Funny)
Man, it must really be xmas! LOL!
<insert "Insensitive clod!" comment> (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:4, Funny)
You mean XF86-mas, or X.org-mas?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:5, Informative)
All wonderful jokes, but Xmas (in my mind at least) is the consumerism day, while Christmas represents the true, original spirit of the holiday, before corporations got their grubby little paws on everything.
The X stands for chi, the Greek letter and first letter in the Greek word Christ. Xmas is simply an abbreviation for Christmas.
Parent
Re: (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: what's in a name? (Score:5, Informative)
On the other hand, xmas might sound more consumerist precisely because the filthy corporations tried to distance themselves from Christ, both to persuade Christians to think more about shopping and to include, er, heathens in the consumerist orgy.
Of course, Christ never had anything to do with Christmas anyway. He was probably born in August-ish if he existed at all, and Christmas was just the Catholics' attempt to usurp yet another pagan holiday that had been around ever since people knew what a solstice was. So perhaps "Xmas" is a (slightly) better thing anyway.
Happy Newtonmas, everyone!
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
while Christmas represents the true, original spirit of the holiday
You mean this? [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You mean the pagan holiday with the lights and the tree and the gift giving that the Christians stole? Because Easter(Ishtar) and Christmas(Winter Solstice) are both as pagan as you can get. The Christians in the Catholic church didn't even bother changing the traditions, they just stuck some made up Christian reasons for doing them. BTW, just FYI, Jesus was born in June [dailymail.co.uk], during the Roman tax census IIRC.
Now to TFA, I don't know who made the voting machines we used this year in AR(not Diebold because these
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:5, Funny)
We could celebrate with a new newsgroup, alt.die.bold.die
Hopefully, when it comes time to nail them to the wall, they'll use Wilson's Nails [nobeliefs.com].
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
whats the point anymore? (Score:2, Insightful)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKguI0NFek [youtube.com]
Re:whats the point anymore? (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, that's the point exactly. People expect the opportunity to select their corrupt politician of choice. Anything that interferes and might allow the wrong corrupt politician to get into power is unacceptable.
Parent
Re:whats the point anymore? (Score:4, Funny)
It's the illusion of democracy that keeps me going at night.
I believe it was said best here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF5Kdm4Eu6w [youtube.com]
Parent
!Paperless (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:!Paperless (Score:5, Insightful)
The truth is that while paperless may sound sexy it is not really practical.
The truth is that Diebold's problems have nothing to do with the paper or paperless issue, and everything to do with incompetent design and execution. Which is all the more galling considering the relative straight-forwardness of the programming task. A corrupt or inaccurate paper audit trail would be just as useful as no audit trail at all, and arguably more harmful.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but if you think this is a straightforward task, you are making the same mistake Diebold did. Programming is just one minor part of the whole system they need to implement.
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I'm sorry, but if you think this is a straightforward task, you are making the same mistake Diebold did. Programming is just one minor part of the whole system they need to implement.
Yes, and it's this "one minor part" that Diebold fucked up. My original comment stands.
Re:!Paperless (Score:4, Insightful)
Well not exactly. Diebold managed to screw up several parts of the system.
The software
The lousy hardware locks
The poor update process
Just to name three off the top of my head before my second cup of coffee. Makes one wonder about Hanlon's razor. I guess you gotta be good at something.
Parent
Re:!Paperless (Score:5, Informative)
The programming itself is quite straight-forward but the system design is subtle due to the need for verifiability at every step, not just for experts, but so that interested laymen can at least grasp the verifiability in overview.
The Diebold systems fail on all counts INCLUDING the straight-forward programming.
They also managed to fail at version control, source audit and binary certification by loading unapproved patches onto unknown binary versions the night before an election while refusing to reveal the source even to government auditors.
The fact that they have anti-virus software on them (which has caused at least one problem) shows that they REALLY didn't design it right. A device like a voting machine should only accept new executable code through a JTAG or similar port locked safely inside the case. That means that Windows was a poor choice for an underlying OS. Windows just does far too many things without explicit commands and apparently can't be configured not to. It's source is also a problem to audit by anyone.
More proper options would have been programming on the bare metal or a seriously stripped down Linux or *BSD. Not so much for size but to simplify auditing and testing.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes. You know it's broken, you know how it's broken, and you probably know who broke it. With an auditless election you cannot logically know any of these things beyond a reasonable doubt.
Do you understand the normal paper counting process and why it is logicaly possible to trust it? Do you understand why it is logicaly impossible to trust a computer that the opposition cannot audit? Paper is not perfect, neither is democracy come to think of it but both ar
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The truth is, you can't have secret ballots and still have an election that isn't subverted.
Here's my take on how to do a proper paperless democracy:
Everyone gets a personal digital recorder that acts as a "testament", and when they cast their votes, the device preserves a copy as evidence.
Votes are public information, not secret.
We establish two networks for the casting of votes. One secure wired network that carries votes to a centralized point for counting, and one citizens mesh network that logs votes
Re:!Paperless (Score:4, Insightful)
Won't work. Once the vote is public information, people can be bought/pressured to change their vote.
Parent
It's not about technology (Score:3, Insightful)
Paperless shouldn't even be attempted.
This is the system used to elect leaders. Trillions of dollars and millions lives are affected by election results.
Whatever system you choose must have full audit capabilities ... and that means paper.
The only reason for using electronics is to get faster results to those with short attention spans.
Doesn't matter. (Score:4, Funny)
They'll probably get a bailout for their efforts too.
Referendum (Score:2, Funny)
Weird... (Score:5, Interesting)
There's a name for this (Score:2)
It's called tying up loose ends [slashdot.org].
--MarkusQ
I told them so... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Write "Told you so." on a letter. Include a copy of your previous correspondence. Send it in. Might make you feel good for a minute or two.
only 8.5 mil (Score:2)
8.5 million is a small price to pay for that level of control.
The rich got what they want! (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, the crap that kept the Bush administration in office has paid off.
Does anyone believe that the 2000 election was a legitimate Bush win? Does anyone believe that Diebold DIDN'T tamper with the machines? Now that bush is leaving office, we find that the machines are insecure and aren't going to be used?
Now, *all* of the wealthy Bush supporters made HUGE amounts of money under Bush. The bailout was basically a theft of $700B (and more to come) from the U.S. treasury for the very people that have been getting rich 8 years. Never in the history of man-kind has so much relative wealth been given to so few. How did this happen?
I can't think of a single policy of this administration that was designed NOT to remove money from the middle class and transfer it into the hands of the more wealthy. Immigration, trade, health care, intellectual property, and even the department of the interior and the CPB have all been centered around either allowing corporations to make money at the expense of the people, or out-right giving money to large corporations directly.
Now, we, the regular people, call us middle class, working poor, unemployed engineers, have to somehow rebuild the economy after its departure.
I'm 45 years old. I am ill at what I've seen happen to my country. It is a rush to the bottom. If we are not a third world nation already, we will be. Its disgusting.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually I saw a report on Florida's ballot irregularities. There is a case to be made that the paper ballots were manipulated - different grade paper was used which was not approved for use in the machines. There was more, but given the whole hanging chad debacle, it seems that people intentionally wanted to have problems in FL. Then all you have to do is make sure that counties with a small democratic bias get the bad ballots.
If you want to commit fraud, you don't need a computer. Given that FL is a huge
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
It's funny, but you know, its people like you that have let the people like Bush get away with what they have.
Enjoy what you've been arguing for, because we'll be a long time digging out.
Re:then don't rant - act (Score:5, Insightful)
then don't rant - act
Think I haven't? Short of taking up arms against my country, I've done all the legal things I can. The tide is turning, I think, but it takes a long time to wake up the U.S.A.
I honestly believe that the vast majority of Americans are motivated less by money and more by "doing the right thing." The problems is that "the right thing to do" has been purposefully obfuscated by the bastards in power. By using christiantity and the talking heads of talk radio, propaganda minister of the Bush administration, Karl Rove, has successfully turned America in against itself. Dividing families and groups against each other over simplistic moral debates, while completely drowning the substantive discussions about what is truly best for the country.
All this so that they can rob the country of its wealth and make themselves rich at the same time.
I'll say here and now, Bush and Cheney and everyone in their administration have been traitors to the U.S.A.
Signed, patriotic American!!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Who cares? I know that it's fun to bash Bush, but geez, let's stick to bashing diebold.
It is Diebold in Ohio that enabled the shrub to get re-elected.
For the record, I have no problem with computerized entry machines, but the final output that I turn-in needs to be easily readable paper that is counted by human eyes at some point in the process, IMO.
One of my first jobs, right out of high school, was as a bank teller. Right around the time of the introduction of the ATM in the late 70s/early 80s.
More or les
interpretation of the GPL? (Score:2)
Re the supposed GPL violation, the mailing list [ghostscript.com] post linked to from the article doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
This seems nutty to me. As far as I understand, there's never been any prohibition on simply loading GPL software onto a machine that has a proprietary OS and other proprietary apps.
Playing Politics (Score:2)
Diebold was doomed as soon as their management started openly playing politics. That is just bad policy for a company that is supposed to deliver the pretense of accurate electoral results.
(the president of Diebold publicly said he'd do everything in his power to get George Bush elected president)
I suspect the world will move towards open source voting systems as the only way to use modern technologies in the voting process and still have a shot at accurate results.
You could tell by the name... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:You could tell by the name... (Score:4, Funny)
You mean like in Live Free or Diebold? I see what you mean.
Parent
kinda like rts008 said... (Score:2)
as (s)he said over here [slashdot.org], this made my holiday a very happy one indeed.
Merry War on Christmas, everybody!
OT: mod's, please ignore! (Score:2)
Just for the record, I'm a he. (despite the /. basement dweller's manboobs)
Stephen Heller (Score:4, Interesting)
I feel sorry for Stephen Heller, the whistleblower who was charged with three felonies for revealing Diebold's legal problems, in Feb 2004.
Re:Stephen Heller (Score:5, Interesting)
Mr. Heller pled guilty to a felony, per his legal fund website. If ever a case SCREAMED OUT for a pardon. This is it!! Mr. Heller committed a crime and was properly convicted for it, but the mitigating circumstance are outstanding. Cases like this are why State and Federal Constitutions provide the pardoning power. I sure hope for the best for this guy.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Much like most government programs...it's a place to throw other peoples' money so that certain interests can keep some of it for themselves. All the while, the elected "representative" that was responsible scores points with said interest so that they'll have a fallback when they're finally voted out of office.