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Qtrax — Ad-Supported Music With iPod Compatibility?
Posted by
kdawson
on Sun Jan 27, 2008 08:45 PM
from the see-it-when-i-believe-it dept.
from the see-it-when-i-believe-it dept.
dnormant writes in with a note about QTrax, a 5-year-old startup that just announced deals with all the major labels to provide free, ad-supported music downloads. The new wrinkle is that, though the free tracks come encumbered with Windows Media DRM, QTrax claims that they will be playable soon on iPods. Wired's assumption is that the company is on the verge of a deal with Apple to allow use of its FairPlay DRM in place of Microsoft's. (Apple hasn't licensed FairPlay to anyone so far.) The AP coverage of the story assumes that QTrax has found a way around FairPlay on the iPod, and if so, that its solution will break the next time Apple updates iTunes.
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Music Labels say No Deal with Qtrax 58 comments
mikesd81 writes "Sunday we discussed apparently great news: a company announced making a deal with the major labels to provide DRM-free, ad-supported music. There's just one problem with that. Reuters reports that the Big 4 music labels have denied having any deal with Qtrax. Contrary to Qtrax's reports, Sony BMG Music Entertainment and Warner had publicly denied that they had agreed to back the new Qtrax service. Universal Music, the largest of the group, said it also had not signed a deal for the new Qtrax service and is still in discussions. EMI Group said that while its song publishing unit has an agreement with Qtrax, its recorded music arm, EMI Music, does not. EMI Music, Sony BMG and Warner all previously had agreements with Qtrax, which was testing a paid music download service. Sources say those agreements expired in the last year and did not cover the new free, ad-supported model now being promoted by Qtrax. Qtrax did not immediately respond to further queries about its agreements with other companies."
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prior art (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, that's a pretty good idea. Maybe they could distribute them wirelessly... using radio waves!
Re:It would never work (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
"Assumes"? (Score:4, Informative)
Idiots (Score:5, Interesting)
The only way Qtrax can get their music to play on the iPod is to a) make it DRM-free, which it doesn't sound like it's doing; b) use FairPlay DRM, which they seem to have eliminated; c) implement their DRM "client" (unlocking) on the iPod, which seems unlikely; or d) get Apple to license their DRM scheme for the iPod, retroactively. Yeah, that'll happen.
I smell a rat: too many claims, too few details.
Parent
e) (Score:2)
Point taken... (Score:2)
But it does trigger a thought: what if the record companies are looking at a scheme where they'll release DRM'd music under Qtrax's nominally free ad-supported model, and adopt Apple's $0.99/track DRM-free alternative? I could live with it.
Re: (Score:2)
Adding a piece of software to run on the ipod seems like the most obvious method of doing this since it would allow access to the file by the firmwa
Re:Idiots (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not designed to hide anything, only to make reading files and transversing the file system simple. That's why you can browse the hidden directory and copy files back manually. Song files are hidden primarily to prevent users from mucking with the files once iTunes copies them over, so that the software won't have to deal with verifying file system integrity and externally edited files or directories. If Apple really wanted to hide the files or prevent you from getting them off, it knows how to create an encrypted file system disk image.
Modifying the iPod's firmware to play back WMA wouldn't be impossible it seems, but doing so would be legally difficult for a commercial company. Rockbox and Linux can already run on the classic iPods. However, Apple could repeatedly bork every attempt with new firmware updates, just as it did to stop Real from shoving its DRM on the iPod.
Apple is happy having Amazon sell MP3s for the iPod, but they're not going to stand for Helix, WMA or any other DRM system locking up music in a way that takes advantage of the iPod. Also, with Apple now selling two families of iPod, rolling out a system that works on both the Nano/Classic and the Touch/iPhone would be far more difficult for a Fairplay-compatible system like Real tried to do with Helix. They only copied the basic ACC format, no messing with the firmware.
Getting WMA to play on the iPod would require a very sophisticated firmware change, and only the classic iPods are known to have WMA capable hardware. The Touch/iPhone likely only has hardware support for H.264.
Playing ads on the iPod using DRM tracks would be absurd. It would be much easier to just serve up songs as video podcasts running ads or videos with ads, just like TV and the web, where users can ignore ads. Forcing the screen to play would rape battery life though, and who really needs ads to sponsor songs they can get for 99 cents or from CDs they own? A foolish idea all around it seems.
Will Steve Jobs License Apples FairPlay DRM ? [roughlydrafted.com]
How FairPlay Works: Apple's iTunes DRM Dilemma [roughlydrafted.com]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That doesn't really hold water. If the motivation for the funny names and the hidden directory was simply to make traversing the file system simple, then why would they bother preventing drag-outs from the iPod in iTunes? Newer versions of iTunes won't let you copy music back out of your iPod into your computer; it is now necessary to dive into the hidden directory.
The directory may have originally been
Re:"Assumes"? (Score:5, Interesting)
FairPlay-encrypted AACs are one of the formats the iPod can natively play. Unencrypted AAC, MP3, WAV, AIFF, and Apple Lossless files are other formats the iPod can natively play.
So, do they mean they've gotten a license from Apple to encrypt their own files with FairPlay DRM? Or do they mean they've reverse-engineered FairPlay so that they are able to sell FairPlay-encrypted AAC files without Apple's blessing? Or do they mean they're offering a hack for the iPod's firmware that will add support for their own DRM format? Or do they mean they're selling unencrypted files?
If they mean they've gotten a license, I'll be very surprised. I can't see how it would be in Apple's interest, at this point, to license FairPlay to other companies*.
If they mean they've reverse-engineered FairPlay, Real tried that already, and Apple sued and got them to stop. I can't see how this time around would be any different.
If they mean they're offering a firmware hack, I can't see how they could possibly support every model of iPod out there, and Apple definitely won't be pleased. Since this would undoubtedly void Apple's warranty, I could see a lawsuit coming from this.
If they mean they're selling non-DRM files, why wouldn't they just say that?
Something's fishy here.
* Option #1 isn't in Apple's interests, because Steve Jobs wants to strongarm the industry into going with option #4, which will be best for everyone, including Apple. By licensing FairPlay, Apple would lose the ability to do this.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Qtrax Aims to Offer IPod-Friendly Tracks
Sunday January 27, 10:15 pm ET
By Alex Veiga, AP Business Writer
Qtrax File-Sharing Service Launches; Offers Free Music Downloads Compatible With IPods
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Fast-moving thunderstorms brought new waves of rain on Sunday to Southern California, following days of drenching weather and heavy mountain snowfall and raising fears of mudslides and flooding.
The worst of the storm was over, and Monday
ummm... (Score:5, Interesting)
The DRM business model is interesting. Ideally it would work allowing for people to receive reduced-priced music at the cost of ads or usability (i.e. music only able to be used on one device like what's been floating around lately) but the reality is they're providing another type of DRM which will allow another method of cracking and receiving (in this case) free music.
I realize that what they're trying for is a compromise, but as long as there are insanely poor college students with way too much time on their hands out there, the market they're targeting will never go for something like this in the way they intend.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
When your giving it away for free it kinda loses its purpose.
Whats wrong with a mp3 with ads on it?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Or maybe ... (Score:4, Interesting)
I predict that the touted iPod-compatibility will remain "coming real soon now!" until the company is quietly wound down.
Re: (Score:2)
That happened the first time this little company went live - this is round 2. Same method, only different...rriiigggght.
The didn't work out so well for... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The article you linked to says that after Real launched Harmony, Apple issued a software update which stopped the Harmony tracks from playing. Real then issued their own software update and the tracks have played without a problem ever since.
Now I'm sure Apple could issue another update in the future again breaking the tracks, but from the article you posted it reads like it worked out pretty well for Real, and for the iPod users that bought tracks
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Like I said, it didn't work out so well for Rhapsody.
Re: (Score:2)
So here we are three years later.
My friend has been paying $14.99 per month for a grand total of $539.64 and doesn't own any of the music he's been listening to, and I've spent around the same and bought approx thirty albums and lots of individual songs.
We both started off with quite la
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I have Rhapsody and it works out great. My kids and I each have a portable unit, for $15/month, we each have an unlimited amount of music to listen too on any of our computers (linux as well), or on our portables. One subscriptions allows 3 authorized computers and 3 portable devices. We can also use the Rhapsody web interface on any computer and and it does not count against the authorized total.
For
did they just reverse engineer FairPlay? (Score:2)
It won't be Music (Score:3, Interesting)
So the future I see is........ "Oh baby, Baby...... pfff Umm like this is Britney, buy my album and stuff for reals. Lawyers cost money. I'm serial. pfff Hit me one more time"
Or a Paris Hilton track being interrupted by a commercial for Valtrex.
Re: (Score:2)
Why Bother With P2P if it's legal? (Score:2)
I mean downloading movies and tv shows via p2
Re: (Score:2)
Yet another solution in search of a problem (Score:5, Interesting)
"We've had a technical breakthrough which enables us to put songs on an iPod without any interference from FairPlay," said Allan Klepfisz, Qtrax's president and chief executive.
The problem is not how to get DRM content onto an iPod without Apple's help. The problem is not how to get content onto an Apple. The problem is not that iPods only play open MP3s and Fairplay'd tunes - Jesus, that's not true (cue the dead horse beating).
The issue here - not in the summary - is that QTrax is P2P as well as download. And they're either scared or just stupid:
"This is a way to get the stuff for free and not take the risk of having the (recording industry) show up at your doorstep with a six-figure lawsuit," he said.
Either way, I'm disgusted by their attempt and their thinking.
Re: (Score:2)
I've been trying to figure out the tech end. Someone with an iPod and iTunes care to help me out? I don't have iT
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It works fine. We have put some MP3's on an iPod and backed up the entire iPod to hard disk under Linux. I guess the only thing you don't get backed up is the keys, but that iPod has never had DRM tracks, so it's a moot point.
Pick your fav program here. Some are multi-platform.
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/managing_your_ipod_without_itunes [freesoftwaremagazine.com]
It's been done (Score:2)
More info at The Register (Score:3, Interesting)
The Register has an article about Qtrax [theregister.co.uk]. They're pretty skeptical about it.
Startup? (Score:5, Funny)
Um, they've been around for five years, I don't think they're exactly a startup anymore. More like a regular company that's trying to attract some VC money and subscribers by trying to look all shiny and new.
It's kind of like your mom wearing low-riders and a tube top--at some point this sort of thing just needs to stop.
Re:Startup? (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
DVD Jon to the white courtesy phone please... (Score:2)
...DVD Jon to the white courtesy phone.
How long before something this stupid gets cracked? Let's start a pool on it. I'm in for two weeks and three days after the launch date. Everyone - pick a day.
The part that irks me (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
the so called freetard model was able to get the publicity and support to make Fire-fox incredibly successful project that would probably of flopped as a closed source product and that sentence really makes the rest of the work by that author very suspect.
Re:The part that irks me (Score:5, Insightful)
How rude of The Register to lambaste the company for building software using code that others are handing out under licenses that say "don't pay us a cent".
Parent
Re:The part that irks me (Score:4, Informative)
Songbird as a platform is making leaps and strides right now. If you're a Mozila-developin' fan of the project, we're in the middle of a Top 40 extensions contest to port cool extensions from Firefox. Come by #songbird on irc.mozilla.org or check us out at http://songbirdnest.com/top40 [songbirdnest.com] . Win cool schwag! Meet great people! Hack on something fun!
As a daily-use media player we're still not quite there yet. We are, after all, only at version 0.4. Still, many people are discovering all the cool things that having an extensible framework in your media player enables you to do.
Squawks,
-pvh
Parent
Deals not done (Score:2, Informative)
Hey I have an idea! (Score:3, Funny)
No DRM is the key! (Score:2, Insightful)
When will companies realise that the answer is to stop shipping DRM? Amazon and others are doing it now with great success. Even iTunes Plus does it. Companies that base their business on DRM are condemned to a slow but certain death.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
or a better question is why buy them in a drmed proprietary format from a company that can't let in a little competition? why is it that apple still receives praise when the
Re: (Score:2)
or a better question is why buy them in a drmed proprietary format from a company that can't let in a little competition? why is it that apple still receives pr
Re:Radio (Score:4, Insightful)
- Apple has thwarted any retail market for devices that are not iPods, as Microsoft prevented the sale of DOS and Windows alternatives?
- that Apple should be forced to license FairPlay to other companies, like how Microsoft was forced to license Office to rival third parties for resale under different brands?
- that Apple should be forced to fund alternatives to iTunes for use with the iPod, the way Microsoft has enabled integration with Notes clients from Exchange, or CalDAV from Outlook clients, or WiiConnect compatibility from the Xbox 360?
- that the iPod should play WMA DRM, just like Microsoft supports PlayStation 3 games on the Xbox 360?
- that Fairplay should work on PlaysForSure players, just as Microsoft had to support Win32 apps on Unix?
Because any of those ideas would be batshit nuts. What were you really thinking?
And when in recent history has Apple become "even worse than the big bad wolf Microsoft," as I missed the story about:
- two decades of holding back better technology,
- promising vaporware that wasn't delivered for years if ever,
- being charged with monopoly market exploitation and overcharging customers by various states and countries,
- attempting to cover it up political astroturf campaigns uncovered by the LA Times,
- delivering unusable technology at absurd prices,
- raising the price of a desktop OS by 400 percent
- stealing code and violating copyright while advertising anti-piracy campaigns
- tightening spyware-policed phone home DRM on their OS
- starting a format war to control the world's media DRM and push a shitty authoring system like HDi
- working to raise the price of media downloads while killing off all fair use rights like WMA and WMV
- shipping a new OS whose main features revolve around HD DRM policing and OS Activation
- inventing Paladium
- delivering a crappy mobile OS they can't hardly sell but would love to stick the world with
- delivering a proprietary alternative to PDF, JPEG, MP3, H.264, Java, OpenDocument and every other open format with the intent to screw the world with a poorly designed file architecture that forces dependence upon a derelict monopoly
- delivering an open sourced alternative to the NT kernel
- delivering an open sourced, standards based alternative to the IE browser engine
- delivering an advanced graphics compositing engine for Vista to copy 7 years later
- delivering the advanced Cocoa frameworks to power Mac OS X and the iPhone, well ahead of
- delivering a smartphone that blows away the state of the art and forces innovation into a dead industry
- promoting an open alternative to DirectX in OpenGL
- promoting an open alternative to WMA DRM with the MP3 playing iPod
- promoting a mild DRM that offers fair use rights to revitalize the dead music industry
- promoting an end to DRM restrictions in music downloads
- promoting an open alternative to WMV/VC-1 by pushing joint development of ISO MPEG standards
- creating a competitive music player that sells better than DRM obsessed, subscription touting rivals
- creating a competitive operating system that sells better than DRM obsessed, authorization touting Vista
- promoting the use of open file formats such as PDF, PNG, MP3/AAC, H.264, OpenDocument
- promoting a standards based web and working on HTML 5 rather than a Win32/.NET/Flash-based web
- contributing back to the GPL/BSD community in core OS, security, and web rendering
- developing a calendar server and releasing it to the community under the free Apache license
Anyway, that's why there's a difference. Not sure why its so invisible to you. Also, the sky is generally blue on clear days.
Apple TV Promises to Take 2008 [roughlydrafted.com]
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Radio (Score:4, Insightful)
DRM seems to be a fair way to rent movies temporarily or to buy music you can burn to CDs at any point. Outside of that, its a "trust me!" game that you shouldn't trust past what you can't afford to lose at any moment in time.
Tom Krazit of CNET and Eric Savitz of Barrons Deny the Jesus Phone [roughlydrafted.com]
Parent
Re: (Score:2)