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Upgrade Trick Still Present In Vista SP1
Posted by
kdawson
on Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:27 AM
from the pricing-is-an-art dept.
from the pricing-is-an-art dept.
Chris Blanc writes "The new Service Pack 1 version of Windows Vista allows end users to purchase the 'upgrade edition' and install it on any PC — with no need to purchase the more expensive 'full edition.' The same behavior was present when Vista was originally released, but the fact that the trick wasn't removed from SP1 suggests that Microsoft executives approved the back door as a way to make the price of Vista more appealing to sophisticated buyers."
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Alternatively (Score:4, Funny)
I hear Ubuntu allows the full installation on any machine too...
Yeah, ok, I'll accept my -1, Troll.
Re:Alternatively (Score:4, Funny)
I wouldn't worry about that.
See, you've used the time honored Slashdot tradition of daring the moderators to mod you down. Such statements display a remarkable understanding of /. politics and show that you aren't afraid to go against the group. I'm hard pressed to think of a better way to ensure that your comment winds up with postive moderation -- short of a 4 digit UID, large cash contributions or being a former actor [slashdot.org] from Star Trek: The Next Generation ;)
Statements like "don't worry, I've got karma to burn" or "how long until I get modded down?" seem to be particularly effective ;)
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Re:I'll accept it in your stead (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:I'll accept it in your stead (Score:5, Funny)
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I'll accept it in your stead (Score:5, Informative)
For a non-standard install, download and install from the Alternate ISO. It fits nicely on a bootable DVD. You can skip Grub if needed. The live install CD was not intended for power users.
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Re:Its easy unless something goes wrong (Score:4, Informative)
There's even an easy way [ubuntugeek.com].
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Sophisticated Buyers (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sophisticated Buyers (Score:4, Insightful)
Many tweaks to the UI cause you to jump through new hoops, slowing down productivity and causing me to get irate. An OS should enable me to use my computer, but slow me down.
Last week I was in a store purchasing a new computer for my step-dad, and all he needed was a web browser. I was damn tempted to give him a Linux box, and I'm not sure he'd notice. But we buy a new PC with Vista. He's used XP for years, but now he is totally lost. And the salesman was insisting 2 gigs of ram isn't enough for Vista, and that we needed a box with 4. Here is the crux of it. Vista offers no new features that will blow anyone away, yet the requirements are considerably higher.
Why slow down my machine with something that is going to cause nothing but trouble, when I get no benefit out of it?
There are people who cope reasonably well with Vista, but that isn't a reason to upgrade.
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Re:Sophisticated Buyers (Score:4, Insightful)
Many tweaks to the UI cause you to jump through new hoops, slowing down productivity and causing me to get irate. An OS should enable me to use my computer, but slow me down.
Like what ?
Last week I was in a store purchasing a new computer for my step-dad, and all he needed was a web browser. I was damn tempted to give him a Linux box, and I'm not sure he'd notice. But we buy a new PC with Vista. He's used XP for years, but now he is totally lost.
Someone who is "lost" in Vista after using XP for years, is going to be vastly more "lost" using Linux (or OS X for that matter).
Seriously. The fundamental UI in Vista is still the same as Windows 95.
And the salesman was insisting 2 gigs of ram isn't enough for Vista, and that we needed a box with 4.
Of course he'd say that. He's on commission. 2 gigs is plenty.
Here is the crux of it. Vista offers no new features that will blow anyone away, yet the requirements are considerably higher.
One could make that same argument about just about every version of Windows since Windows 95 (and every version of every other OS from some time back in the '90s, with the exception of OS X since it was so late to the party).
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Re:Sophisticated Buyers (Score:4, Interesting)
I have to say that I've gotten it here at the office and I haven't noticed any major problems with it. Take that with a grain of salt though because my environment doesn't involve any legacy software.
It's actually remarkably usable once you disable the Vista UI and return it to a Windows 2000 look (I never used the XP UI either), though it is a resource pig. I'm using over a gig of ram right now just for Outlook, a few putty sessions, Pidgin and Firefox. On XP I'd still be under 512.
All that said, after having used it for two months I really don't see any compelling new feature or reason to upgrade from XP -- particularly when Vista will require much more powerful iron to run as fast. Factor that in with all of the anti-consumer "features" (*cough* protected media path *cough*) added in by Microsoft and I'd still have a hard time recommending it to anybody and I doubt I'll be upgrading at home for the foreseeable future.
You must be new here ;) (sorry, couldn't resist)
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Re:Sophisticated Buyers (Score:5, Insightful)
No it's not. It's actually making better use [codinghorror.com] of your RAM.
In my opinion, Vista is only for sophisticated users. Sophisticated users (developers, for example) tend to already go for high end systems, and are willing (and able) to learn new stuff. Ordinary users are resistant to change. They don't want to learn a new way of doing things, and switching to Vista would force them to do that (as would switching to Linux or OSX). There are generally (though not always) pretty good reasons for Vista changing the way these things are done (ie. additional functionality), but those who refuse to learn something new should just stick with what they know.
I'm inclined to agree. If you're happy with XP, stick with it. But if you're out looking for a new computer, unlike most Slashdotters (who have likely never even tried Vista), I'd happily recommend getting one with Vista -- as long as the person I'm recommending it to is willing to put in the effort to learn something new.
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Re:Sophisticated Buyers (Score:5, Insightful)
No, he's pretty much accurate. But it's no big secret Vista was rewritten to cache more data in ram and so appears to be using more memory. I stopped looking at memory usage along time ago... when I'm on a machine that is paging a lot, then it's time to pay attention.
On Vista, though, you do get an easy to read resource monitor that will give you much more information about the resources you're using. I like the memory section that gives you percentage of physical memory in use and the number of hard faults per second.
You can drill down for more detail, but those two items are pretty much all I need for most performance investigations.
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Re:Sophisticated Buyers (Score:4, Informative)
On a related note, I've used Vista, extensively, and don't like it. I don't bash it at every opportunity, but I do discourage its use for the following reasons
- - UAC is still the most aggravating privilege prompt I've used
- - Vista, compared with Ubuntu or OS X, runs extremely slowly
- - Control Panel, and other OS dialogs have been obfuscated and made extremely convoluted for no apparent reason
- - (Subjective) I dislike the Aero user interface
So there are three valid, and one personal reason that I prefer to use Ubuntu and OS X for my computing needs.Parent
Re:Sophisticated Buyers (Score:5, Insightful)
Hence you ask why do people dump on vista when it works just fine for what you do. And the answer is because it has metaphorically killed others in ways that it shouldn't have. Why? Because they used their computers in perfectly legit ways that you don't seem to do.
It might have something to do with the Vista capable logo too. Where a computer was presented as having the ability to sufficiently run vista but in reality lacks a lot of what is neccesary. However, the people I know, have systems that meet the Vista specs well above the minimum and still have issues.
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Re:Sophisticated Buyers (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Sophisticated Buyers (Score:4, Interesting)
I believe I have shown that I do, indeed, use an OEM Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium on my Acer Aspire T180.
What does this have to do with anything? If I was a slow learner, I would complain about many pieces of software, not just Vista/Microsoft products.
This is really the only bit of your argument that could theoretically apply to me--so allow me to refute that. I see many improvements in Vista over XP and 2000. I will never deny that Vista is an improvement in some areas. My problem lies in two places:
1) The OS has been out for a year now and there are still major driver and software compatibility issues. An example: My ATI HD2600 video card driver was technically "supported" by Vista, but I had so many problems with the driver (including BSODs, screen lockups, and framerates in the single-digits) that I had to get an nVidia card. And before you say the problem was with my hardware, the card worked perfectly on my Linux installation on the same box.
2) It took Microsoft engineers 5 years to develop Vista? That is around twice their normal average development time of 2-3 years! What major improvements have we seen? The start menu was redesigned, UAC (need I say more), the GUI takes up a lot more memory and hard drive space for not much return in looks, and the "Explorer" file manager has copied so much from Apple's "Finder" that I expect to have a mouse with only one button!
Vista has improved, yes...but the improvements are not complex enough or adequate enough to warrant twice the development cycle on the same product. I am a Linux user. I am a Windows user. I am also a Mac user. Just because I use a certain operating system or software doesn't mean I love it and hate all others. If you don't like what people say about Vista, get over it. Use what software you want to use and let us do the same.
In the meantime, how about we get back to some decent conversation about the upgrade trick!
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Ahhh upgrade... (Score:5, Funny)
It's definitely a scam; there is no reason why the "upgrade" should cost less, since it is identical to the full version and you can "upgrade" using an original disk that wasn't used to install the OS that's currently on the machine.
Re:Ahhh upgrade... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Sophistication (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sophistication (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Sophistication (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Sophistication (Score:5, Funny)
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The wonders of rationalization (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The wonders of rationalization (Score:5, Funny)
And I'm sure my neighbor leaves his front door unlocked because he wants me to come on in and make a sandwich.
That reminds me: You're outta mayo.
--Your Neighbor
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Re: (Score:3)
What does the EULA permit? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What does the EULA permit? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But before you can get in trouble, they have to prove you don't own a prior version. Good luck with that!
Research shows... (Score:5, Insightful)
MS always fucks you at the drivethru (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:MS always fucks you at the drivethru (Score:4, Interesting)
The big reason to use VNC is it is cross-platform. I have 1 Linux, 1 Vista, 2 OS X, and 3 XP computers in my house, and regularly VNC from one OS to another.
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I guess it's better than a money-back rebate (Score:4, Funny)
Antivirus: $50 - $30 rebate - $20 upgrade rebate
Only it would be
Vista Home Basic: $399 - $100 rebate - $100 upgrade rebate = your price $99
Dear Sucker, we mean Customer:
To get the upgrade rebate, fill in the form with the version and registration keys or "Registered to:" number for both the old and new copies of Windows. Limit one upgrade rebate per new copy. Limit one upgrade credit per old copy. Violators will be persecuted, we mean prosecuted, to the full extent of the law.
Sincerely,
Microsoft Customer Relations
That word does not mean what you think it does (Score:5, Funny)
But you've used it in a sentence where you meant "willing to commit fraud to steal a license, but not willing to outright steal the license in its entirety". We don't have an english word that completely covers that, but "criminal" would do. I'd rewrite the last line to end...
"the back door as a way to make Vista more appealing to criminals."
Still Illegal (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Still Illegal (Score:4, Interesting)
Since at least Windows 2000, you've been able to just pop out the disc, put in the older version to prove that you own it, then switch back and continue with the install. This gets you a clean install of the new OS while still verifying access to the older media. It takes less time, too (don't have to install the new OS twice in order to get a valid activation.)
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Not just Vista (Score:5, Insightful)
rj
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not just Vista (Score:5, Informative)
That's nice of them, because I do have a fully licensed version of XP MCE that came with a machine I bought a few years ago. However, it was an HP, so I only have the crappy "Restore" discs that it let me make, which includes all the crapware they were paid to include. I'm fairly certain a Windows upgrade disc wouldn't accept these as "genuine" media that's eligible for upgrade, even though they should be. It's nice to know that I can install Vista onto a fresh HD without having to deal with first installing XP and all the extra crap, only to blow it away with the upgrade.
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Is Microsoft getting desperate? (Score:4, Insightful)
That inclines one to suspect that this hack was left in intentionally.
Now why would Microsoft let people steal from them so easily? That seems diametrically opposed to most of their past behavior. However, if their brand is indeed on a "sharp decline [infoworld.com]," then this action would suddenly make sense.
But it is still amazing to see Microsoft to be (seemingly) actually encouraging theft of their product. What will they think of next? Voluntarily coding to standards?
Conspiracy? Please (Score:3, Insightful)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. --Robert J. Hanlon
Considering the other more important fixes that Vista SP1 needed, I'm sure it was just overlooked or ignored.
Re:Or (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Or - a way around upgrade nightmares (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft may just be trying to save themselves some support headaches by making each upgrade disc able to authenticate itself.
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Re:Sophistication? (Score:4, Insightful)
Fuck you. My dad started teaching me about computers when I was only 5, and I have been huge into them ever since. The biggest, most important thing he taught me was this:
"Some people look down on others because of the operating system, brand of computer, or programming language of your choice. Whenever this happens, I want you to say "Fuck you" to them. Why? Because it doesn't matter what operating system, brand of computer, or programming language you use. As long as it enables you to get done what you need and want to get done, then use it. Whenever someone looks down on your for your technology choices, just picture them as a grumpy old man at a rich country club telling you that you arent good enough for their tee times. That's ok; you don't want to be around those kinds of people. Stay away from them."
I personally use a Linux/Windows combination...Linux for when I feel like messing around, Windows because it has far reaching hardware support and doesn't require nearly as much tweaking to get it how I want. Forgive me for blaspheming by not using Linux exclusively; just don't look down on people like me because we CHOOSE to use what works for us.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
BTW, a "Fsck you" on any subject is functionally identical to a concession that you possess no further logic
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, I doubt your story is true...unless your about 12.
I can drive a nail into a piece of wood with a wrench, but when people point out why an hammer would be better I wouldn't say "Fuck You"
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:no need to purchase the more expensive... (Score:4, Informative)
It's a violation of an agreement and thus actionable through civil channels.
Not even taking into account the fact that not following a one sided contract may not even be actionable in a civil court.
But, you sit there on your high horse, make ad Hominem attacks, and continue to keep your brain in idle. The rest of us recognize you for the ass hat you are.
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