Hans Reiser Leads Police To Nina's Body 1523
jlmcgraw was the first to alert us that Hans Reiser has led police to the location in the Oakland Hills where he buried the body of his wife Nina. (We discussed the rumor that he would do so last month.) SFGate.com reports that remains were recovered but have not yet been identified. Reiser is to be sentenced on Wednesday. CBS5 claims that Reiser made a deal for a reduced sentence, to 15 years, in exchange for revealing the body.
Sad (Score:5, Insightful)
I feel bad for the kids - that is such a messed up situation.
Re:Sad (Score:5, Funny)
Hans shot first
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
He may have had knowledge of the murder, and use that to reduce the sentence.
I would be interested in your theories of how he could have had knowledge of the murder and not be guilty.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Funny)
If I were separated from my wife and bound by a restraining order, and she was having sex with her new lover IN MY HOUSE, I would probably kill her, too.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Funny)
Remember to enable soft updates before executing this plan.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
If I were separated from my wife and bound by a restraining order, and she was having sex with her new lover IN MY HOUSE, I would probably kill her, too.
And if you admitted as much to the cops, and testified to such in court, the district attorney would likely seek no more than manslaughter.
Crimes committed in the heat of passion, when the murderer is truthful with the police and penitent, aren't always prosecuted as a capital crime. To do so costs the state much more.
Hans Reiser insisted on lying about every aspect of the disappearance of Nina Reiser from the moment he was questioned by police. The DA had no choice but to prosecute it as a murder case - and given the facts in evidence, he was convicted because he made a lot of stupid mistakes - typical for someone who commits a crime of passion and then thinks they can cover it up because they're so much smarter than the 'average bear'.
If Reiser had even pled guilty and recanted his story after lying to the police and being arraigned for murder, he might have gotten off with a much lighter sentence for murder. But he waited until the sentencing phase, after he'd lied to the court.
No, Hans was so much smarter than everyone else. Now he's going to go to prison for 15-to-life - and lying to the court as Reiser did means his parole hearings aren't going to go well for him, if he even survives 15 years in prison.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you misunderstand something about the Right to Remain Silent. The warning from the police when you are arrested is "anything that you say can and will be used against you" not "anything you say may help exonerate you". It is NEVER helpful to talk to the police when you are a suspect, even if you are innocent. You can say things that are truthful when you are innocent and still make you look like a murderer. Always talk to a lawyer first. Always. No matter what your circumstances are.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget that investigators will most likely lie to you, in an attempt to "trick" you into saying something to incriminate yourself. Its all ok for them them to lie to you, but you can't lie to them. Strange isn't that?
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Informative)
Only if that's how the prosecutor decides to handle it, usually because they aren't confident that they have convinced the jury of premeditation, for example. Then they get the judge to instruct the jury that they may find the defendant guilty of the lesser charge if they think it is applicable, but the stronger charge is not.
The prosecutor can also decide to only attempt to prove manslaughter, whether as part of a plea bargain or for any other reason.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Informative)
In a US Criminal court the answer would be: Rarely. Like maybe if the judge and defense attorney were both asleep kind of Rarely.
A jury given the choice between a greater charge and a lesser charge will almost always convict on the lesser charge. Both when conviction on the greater charge may be more appropriate AND when returning a not guilty verdict may be more appropriate. To the point where a DA with a weak case would LOVE to be able to give the jury a 'middle ground' to compromise on. This is clearly prejudicial to the cause of justice.
Not to say it doesn't happen but usually a lesser charge will be dismissed in pretrial motions.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
If his ego was worth a damn, it wouldn't have bought a wife from a russian agency.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Informative)
Mod parent down - wrong.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/04/reiser-defense.html [wired.com]
"Hans and Nina met in 1998, in Russia, when he was overseas hiring programmers. He picked her out of a mail-order bride catalog, where she was advertised as "5279 Nina.""
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Informative)
Hm. I thought I had read that differently.
Actually, it seems to that both may be true:
> "No, that's not true," answered Sharanova, who had
> testified earlier Reiser and her daughter met when
> Nina went with a friend who was to meet Reiser at
> a cafe to act as a translator.
From: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20080214/ai_n21416688 [findarticles.com]
Unfortunately, I can't post and moderate ;-)
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Interesting)
IANAL, but as an italian this is what i know:
up to the seventies there was a law (number 587) on "honour killing", where you could kill your wife if they were having an affair and you would get a much reduced sentence because you were defending the honour of your family.
for the same reason you could somewhat get away with killing your wife if she just was behaving in an unappropriate way, or your sister if she was dating an undesirable man or if she lost her virginity before the wedding.
but it was even worse than that: when divorce was socially unacceptable (and legally forbidden) this law was used by some also to just get rid of their wife (as depicted in the movie "divorzio all'italiana").
this law was more popular in southern italy and in rural areas, but it was not the only one:
you could also beat your wife to "educate" her (ius corrigendi).
a raped woman could be forced to marry their raper (as depicted in the movie "sedotta e abbandonata)"
contraception was strictly forbidden.
and so on.
but NOW the italian law, while still lacking, is not as bad as some decades ago. if you commit a crime of passion you get a sentence for manslaughter or something like that.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
"And if you then think, you are morally justified in killing them when they don't comply, I'm glad that capital punishment is still available."
Do you want to examine this statement for a circular hipocrisy?
Capital punishment is the acme of "being morally justified in killing someone when they don't comply".
Note: I am NOT saying I oppose capital punishment. Merely that this nose-in-the-air pseudo-moralization is WAAAY out of place.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe he was angry with her because she was having an affair. He bought a gun out of anger, but didn't want to kill her. He goes home, to find her with her lover. In a struggle with the lover, the lover the lover wrests the gun from Hans. He's got the gun pointed at Hans, who reveals that his wife has in fact ANOTHER lover. In anger, the lover shoots Nina and flees. Hans has no idea who he was, and Nina dies sadly in his arms. The only way he can avoid blame for the murder (having just legally purchased the gun) is to bury Nina himself. In the end, Hans feels responsible for her death, having driven her away from him due to his obsession with work, and of course, the foolish decision to buy the guy. He sees only too late that he should forgiven her for such a minor human flaw, and if he had, then he would still be with her.
You left out the part where he's tutoring a small-time crook in prison and that crook says he shared a cell with another con who claimed he murdered some computer geek's wife and now the geek is doing time for the murder. Hans would have started helping out the guards with their computer problems, then the warden gets him involved in a lucrative spamming operation that rakes in millions under the table. And after the warden has the tutored con killed, Hans plots his escape through a storm sewer, withdrawing all the profits from the bank and mailing a package to the papers implicating the warden in spam and murder.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
While there ARE certainly plausible ways that he could have been not guilty AND known where the body is, I would imagine that if he was innocent and knew where the body was that he would, oh, I don't know.... maybe.... CALL THE POLICE AS SOON AS HE KNEW WHERE THE BODY OF HIS DEAD WIFE WAS.
I mean, if it was me, I'd be trying to find all of the evidence to clear my name that I could - and if I hadn't done the killing, you better believe I'd be demanding the police go all CSI on her body and the crime scene before we even get to the point of me being arrested. The fact that he knew where the body was and kept quiet is an indicator to me of intent.
And while indicative of intent, it is not further proof of his guilt. At least it DOES bring closure to the family of the deceased.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
Only on fucking slashdot does the one guy who offers a rational opinion NOT get modded up. So far the first page of comments is mostly jokes and inane - "I'd murder the bitch too" remarks - all getting modded up.
Assholes, this is a real person with a real family, not some fucking Manga or Anime or video game.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no excuse for murder. Initially my take on this case was that maybe he did it, or maybe he didn't - we just don't know. And now I'm pissed I even gave Hans that much.
What dissapoints me about Hans Reiser is that he didn't do the right thing. He didn't confess and in an attempt to avoid taking responsibility he tried to get away with it. A remorseful, intelligent man would've realized that a life with a murder on your conscience i just as bad as prison, maybe even worse. It suggests to me that he didn't feel guilt for what he had done, and I think it's a testament of poor charachter. He only confessed when he had nothing more to loose.
To further your point - I appreciate humor, but when the reality of what happened to Nina sinks in jokes seems to be of very poor taste. Nina was strangled by the father of her children and then buried to rot in a 4x4 foot grave, nearly upside down. Conjure up an image of what she looked like when they dug her up after all those months and then crack a joke. What - not funny anymore? Assholes indeed.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
Surely the time to decide to do the right thing would have been just before he murdered his wife, not during the aftermath, when clearly no amount of "right things" would rectify anything but the most comparatively trivial aspects of this situation.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
While there ARE certainly plausible ways that he could have been not guilty AND known where the body is, I would imagine that if he was innocent and knew where the body was that he would, oh, I don't know.... maybe.... CALL THE POLICE AS SOON AS HE KNEW WHERE THE BODY OF HIS DEAD WIFE WAS.
Because of course the police wouldn't think it's you, they're all very nice and rational people. They haven't the slightest desire of pinning murder cases on someone who might be innocent, I mean it's not like their job isn't about locking people away and making examples out of them.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
This doesn't prove he's guilty. He may have had knowledge of the murder, and use that to reduce the sentence. I still have faith that the real story will come out.
He is the O .J. Simpson of nerds. We can't believe he's guilty because he's one of us.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
Or worse, we don't care if he's guilty because he's one of us.
I'm all for innocent-until-proven, believe me - but he's been PROVEN guilty at this point. Clinging to an idea of his innocence is a weird sort of cognitive dissonance I can't get behind.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
>>I'm all for innocent-until-proven, believe me - but he's been PROVEN guilty at this point. Clinging to an idea of his innocence is a weird sort of cognitive dissonance I can't get behind.
Yeah, in the previous Slashdot articles on this case, it was bizarre watching people defend him simply because he wrote a filesystem that some of us use. You're right, it is cognitive dissonance, as the human brain has trouble putting a person in two different boxes for Good and Bad.
Of course, now that he's admittedly guilty, a different mental mechanism will come into play, and half his defenders will post on here that they thought he was guilty all along, and what's weirder, they will actually believe it. Dunno what that phenomena is called - maybe it could be called a false memory.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot of people probably wanted Hans to be innocent because he's part of the "tribe", but if you look back, the evidence against him was a bit shakyâ"mostly circumstantial, plus the testimony of a nutcase who said he murdered eight other people. And let's not forget the procession of other men Nina had been in contact with, any one of whom could have been an internet stalker.
He was found guilty anyway, and now he's come clean, so I guess it was the right verdict. But that doesn't mean everyone who thought he was innocent in the past was experiencing cognitive dissonance, only that they weren't on the jury.
He's not one of us (Score:5, Funny)
We can't believe he's guilty because he's one of us.
No he's not one of us, he had a wife. Hand in your geek card on the way out.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Funny)
If the glove isn't 64-bit, you must acquit.
Re:Still could be innocent (Score:5, Insightful)
This doesn't prove he's guilty. He may have had knowledge of the murder, and use that to reduce the sentence. I still have faith that the real story will come out.
Yeah, because the "I didn't do it but I know where the body is buried" argument will look so good on appeal.
I will refrain from calling you "Jackass" on the basis that you are taking the piss.
Re:Sad (Score:5, Funny)
Comparison of filesystems on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
Re:Sad (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sad (Score:5, Funny)
What, too soon?
Re:Sad (Score:5, Funny)
Should've gone with BeFS. At least the filesystem is indexed and instantly searchable.
Re:Sad (Score:5, Insightful)
They should rename it PRONTO
Er, no. The people with the pull to attempt to promulgate that work under a different name know full well who they are dealing with; one of the biggest pricks currently walking the Earth. Anyone tries it and Hans will be filing copyright suits from inside whatever cage CA puts him in. Right or wrong that's what WILL happen. Hans is that big a prick.
Recent Reiser quote:
I have a compulsive tendency to say things that I know are true that people don't want to be true
Good luck with that in prison, Hans. That alphageek social misfit stuff works fine when the stakes are low; among other geeks squabbling over geekery. You will now receive the socialization someone neglected when you were 12.
Okay there you go (Score:5, Interesting)
All you people who said "I still don't believe Hans did it" -- do you doubt it now?
Re:Okay there you go (Score:4, Funny)
Yes.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Funny)
The guy was persecuted for being a little strange, which is an outrage. Oh, and he also killed his wife.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Insightful)
Right. But you'd have to be bloody insane to think that maybe Hans didn't do it at this point. I mean, he knew where the body was buried.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Funny)
I mean, he knew where the body was buried.
Lucky guess!
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Funny)
Lucky guess!
No, he found the location in his journal...
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Funny)
The only way I can see that having a chance in hell is if the instructions to find the body looked like this
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Insightful)
Wasn't it more a matter of reasonable doubt?
I think most thought it was more likely than not that he did it. Just that there were reasonable alternative theories (ran away to frame him, insane best friend that claims to have murdered people still alive are 2 that I can think of).
I think a lot of people here wanted to believe he was innocent, perhaps because of the open source connection, perhaps because they could relate to him, I don't know. I always thought that the alternative theories were pretty weak - there was no evidence that crazy best friend did it and no real motive for Nina to try to frame him by fleeing to Russia without her kids. On the other hand there was a large amount of physical evidence, which taken together (and considering Hans' complete lack of a plausible explanations for any of it) didn't leave a reasonable doubt in my mind. Or the juries mind. And now a lot of people here have to admit that the police and the jury were right.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Interesting)
I think a lot of people here wanted to believe he was innocent, perhaps because of the open source connection
Heh, I'll probably be modded as Flamebait for this, but...whatever.
I agree with you. The OSS connection, I think, is what made people think he was innocent. If this had been a story about Bill Gates or some other closed source proponent, I wonder if people's reactions would still have been the same on this site.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Funny)
Hell yeah! I firmly believe Bill Gates killed his wife, despite all evidence, like her still being alive, saying otherwise!
Also some misogyny (Score:5, Insightful)
There were some posts that contained it outright, others that you could see it in the subtext. It is something not surprising since there are an above normal amount of people here who have trouble dealing with women. It leads some of those people to dislike and distrust women. They believe Hans simply because they find it more likely that a woman would screw over a man than vice versa. Now combine that with the OSS hero status and you really have a situation that blinds them to the facts.
I think you'd find that had the situation been reversed (Nina killing Hans) that there would have been no doubt in their minds she was guilty, in no small part because of her gender.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Insightful)
I think a lot of people here wanted to believe he was innocent
Sure, but that wasn't the reason why there was so much opposition to his conviction. People didn't (and still don't) seem to be able to grasp the difference between probably did it and have proven it beyond reasonable doubt. It's entirely consistent to believe that he did it and that he shouldn't have been convicted. Not because he's a big contributor to open-source, but because the standard for allowing the state to take away somebody's freedom and ability to vote for most of their life should be fucking high and his trial didn't meet it.
I disagree. "Reasonable doubt" is not the same as "proven beyond any doubt", which seems to be your position. Reasonable doubt is not a couple of far-fetched alternative theories coupled with totally unreasonable explanations for the evidence. The jurors saw a lot more evidence than you did. They got to watch Resier as he made his case. According to their comments any reasonable doubt was removed when he took the stand. You may disagree with their conclusions, despite the much smaller amount of evidence (all second hand) that you have access to, but the fact is that they got it right. For you to persist in claiming that they got it wrong is simply the height of arrogance.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll clue you in. Reasonable doubt requires more than just a semi-plausible alternative theory. It's not like reading something in a textbook. "Reasonable doubt" is made up of his actions, his inaction, the things he says to the jury, the things he doesn't say to the jury, his actions in court, his mannerisms, whether he appears to be lying, all of that stuff. There is no sterile, black and white "reasonable doubt" where he can just tell lies and suggest an alternative theory and get off.
That's what makes serial killers scary, they are so emotionless and seem to not think that they did anything wrong that they can just lie to a group of people and most people find it believable. Many of them are smart enough to not get caught in lies.
Hans had a lot of circumstances stacked against him and then he did the worst thing possible and he opened his mouth in court, the guy has a hard time communicating with people that really want to understand him and hear what he has to say (fellow kernel hackers) no way he's going to lie to a jury in a convincing manner. Even for a geek he is a very odd individual. Just not convincing in court, and as it turns out, he did the crime anyways. A jury saw through his lies and they were right, as they tend to be. Some estimates have them between 85% and 90% accurate.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Insightful)
They had physical blood evidence that Nina bled in his car. Doesn't mean she died there, nor that Hans killed her.
No, it doesn't, but look at it like a juror might....
I've had women, including my wife, ride in various cars of mine for over twenty years now. None of them have bled in any significant amounts inside any of the cars I've owned during that period. Also, no bleeding episodes in my car were followed up by the removal of half the seats in the car or the washing of the inside of my car.
Of course, no one who has ever ridden in my car has ever disappeared without a trace after obtaining a restraining order against me, either. Sure, it is circumstantial evidence - but people are convicted on less everyday for lesser crimes.
Also (Score:5, Interesting)
What people seem to forget is that while any one of these things doesn't mean anything by itself, they add up to a bigger picture. People keep trying to deconstruct individual facts. That's not how it works at trial. It isn't a case of "every fact must prove, on it's own, that this happened." They are all considered together. So while there is reasonable doubt for a given fact, there's not when they are all presented together. For example, suppose that someone claims I stole their laptop. They didn't actually see me take it and I don't currently have it, however the following is known:
--I was the last person seen in the area of the laptop before it was discovered missing.
--I had no reason to be in that area, and can offer no plausible reason as to why I was.
--There were security cameras in the area, however I moved in such a way to always avoid their lines of sight.
--My fingerprints were found around the area where the laptop was prior to going missing.
--I was was observed carrying a small box, that would hold a laptop from my car back to my house, after leaving the area.
--I suddenly have an amount of cash consistent with the sale of such a laptop that I can provide no plausible way for getting.
--I am discovered to have books on the topic of security systems, and removing tracking software from a laptop.
--Several pawn shop owners said I inquired about the discretion they exercise in relation to goods they buy.
At some point in there, it becomes pretty clear that I am the guy who stole the laptop. Any given fact on it's own isn't a big deal. Like getting extra money without a good explanation isn't indicative of theft, maybe I just got it in a way I'm not proud of. However taken all together and with no plausible alternative explanation, it really isn't reasonable to doubt that I stole the laptop. Just because I don't have the laptop itself, doesn't mean a jury can't find beyond a reasonable doubt that I did steal it.
Same deal in the Reiser case. You take all the evidence together and there is very little doubt. Any that remained he did a good job of erasing with his testimony. One of the things juries can certainly weigh is how ceredable the alternative explanations the defense and defendant offer are. If they offer a very credible, plausible explanation, well then that can make reasonable doubt, even in the light of strong evidence. However if they offer extremely unbelievable stories, well then the jury can infer they are lying.
Part of the problem is people here do the geek extremist thing and start taking ANY amount of doubt to be reasonable. No, that's not how it works. You don't have to prove a case beyond any doubt, because there's always some doubt. I mean there is some doubt that the sun will come up tomorrow. Very, very little, but still some. Just because it has always happened in the past, doesn't mean it will for sure, beyond any doubt, happen in the future.
So the proof in court isn't about absolutes, it is about reasonable doubt. That means is it REASONABLE to doubt that someone did it. The jury said no, it isn't, and it looks as though they are correct, it wasn't.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Insightful)
The rule for circumstantial evidence -- anything that's not eyewitness testimony, basically -- sounded pretty simple. For any given piece of circumstantial evidence, if there's a "reasonable" explanation for that evidence that supports innocence then the jury is supposed to accept that explanation even if it means erring on the side of innocence. If there isn't a reasonable explanation that supports innocence, then the jury can use it as evidence of guilt.
Except Reiser testified in his own defense and came up with some real bullshit to explain the circumstantial evidence. So the jury wasn't reaching for a "reasonable explanation", they were judging whether Reiser was credible or not.
Had Reiser said "Oh gee, my wife cut her foot once", he might have had a chance. Instead he made up some ridiculous story to explain why he had torn the seats and carpeting out of his car days after his wife disappeared.
Oblig. Simpsons ref. (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, I remember it well... particularly when he jumped up and shouted:
"It's chowdah! CHOWDAH!! Say it RIGHT!!!"
"I'll kill you-- I'll kill all of you, especially those of you in the jury!!!"
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Informative)
Before, though, there wasn't even any definitive proof anyone had died. I thought that was kind of a prerequisite for charging someone with murder.
Not in any state that I know of. Otherwise, the only thing you'd need to do to get away with murder is dispose of the body.
Poison someone, dump them in the ocean with a rock tied to their ankle, and poof. No murder, right?
That's not the way our legal system works. A missing person, another person who was their known last contact, poison residue on their hands, a poison bottle in their possession, a car that's got sand from a particular beach on its tires, clothing fibers from clothing the victim was known to own in the car, receipts for rope, a blindfold and other tools in the murderer's possession, existence of a motive... that's enough circumstantial evidence to arrest and probably convict somebody in any state in this country.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Informative)
Now, I don't doubt it. Before, though, there wasn't even any definitive proof anyone had died. I thought that was kind of a prerequisite for charging someone with murder.
It's not.
Re:Okay there you go (Score:5, Insightful)
You can also be found, that is the difference.
Re:I guess this means he falls under the messy typ (Score:5, Insightful)
The urge to divide everything into two -- black or white, friend or enemy, capitalism or communism, christian or heathen, disorganized or organized -- is a recognized mental oddity.
In most cases, there is not only a sliding scale (or shades of grey, if you like), but multiple axes.
That we so easily try place things in a two-bin system might be because it makes it easier for us to make decisions.
Hans Reiser is an odd man out in many ways, but can't be explained this easily. He's not just a disorganized person. He's a complex person. And if you'd ever talked to him, you'd know that in some things he is meticulously organized, while in others, not. Binning him like you did seems silly, but if it makes it easier for you to deal with, hey, whatever sinks your bathyscaphe.
Re:I guess this means he falls under the messy typ (Score:5, Funny)
The urge to divide everything into two -- black or white, friend or enemy, capitalism or communism, christian or heathen, disorganized or organized -- is a recognized mental oddity.
In most cases, there is not only a sliding scale (or shades of grey, if you like), but multiple axes.
So there are people who divide everything into two, and those who do not?
Re:wrong question (Score:5, Insightful)
I do find it worrisome that several jurors basically said that they convicted him because they didn't like him.
Gut feelings, intuition [myersbriggs.org], aren't just random whimsies, they can be your subconscious' way of communicating its' analysis of anothers' subconscious body language and uncontrollable facial subtleties.
No more doubts about conviction (Score:5, Insightful)
Even after the conviction, given the circumstantial case some doubts remained. This certainly removes all remaining doubts.
still plenty of doubts about conviction (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the conviction (first degree murder, i.e. preplanned) is still ridiculous. The evidence for preplanning was very weak. Part of it was that Hans bought a book about murder investigations--but he bought it AFTER Nina's disappearance. You'd think someone planning a murder and wanting to foil an investigation would buy the book BEFORE doing the deed. Another part was that he removed his cell phone battery to avoid being tracked--again AFTER the disappearance. I've been neutral about Hans's possible innocence (60% of Wired Magazine readers in a survey thought he was innocent) but I always thought the premeditation charge was ridiculous. If it was preplanned there are a million less crazy ways he could have done it, such as hiring professionals from Russia or at least making better arrangements to get rid of the body far away. I've felt it more plausible that he lost self-control in the heat of an argument, found himself with a dead wife and a potential giant heap of trouble, and then, after the fact, decided (unsuccessfully) to try to outrun/outsmart the police. That would be second degree murder rather than first, if I remember my Perry Mason reruns.
Re:still plenty of doubts about conviction (Score:5, Informative)
Umm no. It was part of the DA's case that Hans moved the body. So he likely bought the book to figure out how best to hide the body.
Re:still plenty of doubts about conviction (Score:5, Informative)
The term in California is "premeditated" and all that means is that the defendant thought about killing their victim and had time to reflect on that before actually killing them. There doesn't need to be a plan for the murder itself but that would provide very solid evidence of premeditation. When you add up a nasty divorce, the delinquent child support payments, the dispute over custody that led to Nina dropping off the kids at his Mothers house on the long weekend when his mother was going to be out of town, the constant stream vitriol towards Nina coming from Hans before Nina's murder and during the trial, the phone call where Hans basically said he was glad Nina was gone, etc... He compared Nina to the Nazis in an e-mail to her. The jury reasonably concluded that he must have thought about killing her at some point during the long divorce.
R.I.P. NINA (Score:4, Insightful)
FINALLY
The kids... (Score:5, Insightful)
No matter how much we argue or try to make "programming jokes" about this incident the truth is these kids' mother is dead, their father is going away for a long time and they are going to be the ones bearing one of the heaviest burdens in this particular case.
Re:The kids... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that there are two important points here:
1) You can always joke about something (and often should).
2) That joking and laughter doesn't help the kids who are the real victims. (The mother was the victim, but the kids will continue to suffer for a while yet.)
So I ask this of Slashdot: Should the open-source/tech-community raise some money or do something nice for these kids?
We don't have any obligation to, but some one from our community has hurt his kids and his kids are suffering. Should we do something to help out? (Scholarships? I nice thing of flowers?)
I don't know the answer to this, but I think that it is worth some discussion.
Who the hell modded parent down? (Score:5, Insightful)
This AC is spot-on. I wouldn't go so far as say we need to raise money, but I do think Slashdotters should be aware that if they ever stumble across Hans and Nina's kids, they deserve a little extra consideration.
and slashdot joins.... (Score:5, Insightful)
all the people from LA.
last time I saw that sort of hopeful thinking it was kobe and people saying he didnt cheat on his wife. And he did. We all love our heros, dont we?
Well, heros are usually only good at the one thing they are touted for... im not asking kobe to fix my car for sure.
With all the smart people around here, why would anyone think that a computer programmer is any less suceptible to violent acts than any other?
I mean, is it just because computer geeks are well known as the most well adjusted people on the planet? :)
Jokes in bad taste (Score:5, Funny)
After being out-of-order in court, he spilled the encryptic details about where his wife was stored and from there on, the jury knew he was corrupted. Strangely enough, due to his cooperation, officials didn't even have to raid his home...
You know what though...? inode he was a criminal all along.
There, I'm glad to have gotten that out of my system.
Google Maps anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)
From the article, the location where he dumped Nina must be approximately here:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.833531,-122.182109 [google.com]
~Ben
Re:This makes me sad (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I hear that (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope he gets his in prison.
As understandable as the sentiment is, that won't bring Nina Reiser back. I've lost a loved one to a drunk driver, and it isn't much comfort that the bastard went to prison. I hope his kids get a little bit of peace from the fact that at least they have a final answer on the matter, and that they'll be able to visit their mother's grave. This is just really sad; everybody involved loses.
Re:I hear that (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope he is brutalized in prison. Brutalized and savaged.
I was with you up to this point.
There's this little part of the Constitution you are ignoring that forbids "cruel and unusual punishment". 15 to life in prison is not cruel and unusual punishment. Being brutalized and savaged is cruel and unusual punishment.
Why not just hand him to the mob to string him up and teach him a lesson?
Your comment makes me think that you (and whoever modded you insightful) are a bit of a sociopath who is willing to shred the Constitution and pull out that old canard, "think of the children!".
"Oh fuck off", indeed...
Re:This makes me sad (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, because I'd have liked to have seen her turn up alive and well. A living person is better than a dead person any day.
Sadly, circumstantial evidence or not, the guy was clearly guilty as all hell from minute one. Even the weirdest, most anti-social geek I know doesn't do the strange shit he pulled in the days following her murder.
Re:This makes me sad (Score:5, Funny)
Agree. I think where he went wrong was killing his wife. Also, optimizing for edge cases which rarely appear standard operation...
Re:This makes me sad (Score:5, Funny)
Fuck you, ShaunC.
Don't you mean "fsck you?"
Re:This makes me sad (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to have an attitude like that, but by definition anyone who behaves that way is obviously mentally ill, and probably a jail term is only going to make things worse for him. I'm not sure there is alternative though...
And that's what makes me sad, I don't think that there is an answer to the question 'what could have been done beforehand to prevent this?'. You can't just go locking people away because they are a bit (or a lot) arrogant and nerdy - slashdot's user base would disappear overnight! Maybe we need that 'voice in your head' ray gun pointing at people 24/7 with a message 'thou shalt not kill. thou shalt not kill. thou shalt not kill. (drink pepsi).'
Hopefully the kids are now in a more stable environment...
Minority, not majority... (Score:5, Insightful)
He duped a minority, methinks.
There were lots of us who thought he probably did it: the "she ran away" excuse just never floated, and there was too much stupid circumstantial excuses (I don't care HOW much of a geek you are, doing BOTh the seat AND flooding the car AND saying you slept in the wet sopping car is just ridiculous)
Re:Minority, not majority... (Score:5, Insightful)
Hi Nick.
(As context, Nicholas was tangentally involved with Hans while we were all at Berkeley together, and I knew Hans more closely because I was there earlier / closer in age to Hans).
I'm not in touch with a whole lot of the rest of the crowd that knew him in the late 80s / early 90s at Cal. However, the people I am still talking to had a range of opinions... Hans was wierd, but not wierd in the way that would make you think he'd hurt or kill someone eventually. There was doubt - Nina was clearly wierd, too, as were several other people involved (Sturgeon, for one, made a better potential killer). Many other things could have been the underlying factual truth. I was personally hoping that I hadn't gone to school with someone who later became a murderer.
Plenty of innocent people have been caught up in situations that made them look guilty with various evidence and eyewitness reports... Hence the current spate of DNA evidence based overturned convictions. Think how many other innocent people were convicted of things but can't prove it because the real murderer didn't leave DNA that was found...
Yes, it was always suspicious. I don't know anyone who didn't at least put significant weight on the possibility he had killed her. I hoped not, and I'm very disappointed, and sad for his kids, and their grandparents, and for Nina.
This isn't a situation to be getting self-righteous over. No matter what the "right"/"true" answer was, it was a terrible situation, and this was not the best possible outcome. I know several geek community people that I hope this pushes into relationships counseling and anger management counseling.
Sad day.
Re:He duped the great majority of us... (Score:5, Funny)
The correct English idiom is a bit different: the proof of the pudding is in eating. It is interesting to note that the idiom is paradoxical. What proof would remain, if youa ate Nina's body?
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The Ends Justify the Means (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, come off it ... there was no reasonable doubt. Doubt that isn't reasonable isn't sufficient to let him walk, and the *jury* - not the prosecutor - got it right.
Bottom lne: Hans tried to bullshit them, and they saw through it. If he had shut his moutn, maybe he would have walked, but he thought he could "put one over" on a bunch of "dumb jurors."
He forgot that jurors don't have to be smarter than the accused - in his case, all they needed was a baloney-meter.
Re:I can only hope (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I can only hope (Score:5, Insightful)
Why doesn't he deserve that?
Gandhi? "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"? We are not barbarians.
The punishment is the prison time, not rape, let along the long, drawn-out suffering that is an AIDS death. Yes he's a terrible person for having killed his wife, yes he should be punished and no the 15 years he's getting probably isn't enough for someone who can kill their wife and then calculatingly lie to the police and a jury about it for so long. That doesn't mean he deserves to be raped. At the very least it's mob justice, and the reason we have courts to hand out punishment instead.
The sick individuals gloating at the idea of anyone being raped are no better than the people they wish it upon.
Re:I can only hope (Score:5, Insightful)
The punishment is the prison time, not rape, let along the long, drawn-out suffering that is an AIDS death. Yes he's a terrible person for having killed his wife, yes he should be punished and no the 15 years he's getting probably isn't enough for someone who can kill their wife and then calculatingly lie to the police and a jury about it for so long. That doesn't mean he deserves to be raped.
No one "deserves" to suffer at all as payback for committing a crime. Punishment for punishment's sake is barbaric and has no place in a civilized legal system.
That doesn't mean no one should be sentenced, of course. But the purpose of any sentence should be to prevent the criminal from reoffending (either by rehabilitating him or just by keeping him off the street), to make him compensate the victim (when possible, which it isn't in this case), and to provide a deterrent to other would-be criminals, not to take revenge on him for being a bad boy.
Now, it's true that the sentence has to be undesirable for it to work as an effective deterrent, but really, prison is undesirable enough on its own. You don't need to throw in the threat of prison rape or violence; the thought of being locked up for a few decades is enough to deter any rational person, and an irrational one won't be deterred by anything.
Re:I can only hope (Score:5, Insightful)
Fixed that for you. Being a decent person has very little to do with religion.
Re:I can only hope (Score:5, Insightful)
"We'll become monsters too" is not at all based on Christian morality, although it doesn't contradict it either. It's entirely orthogonal (I'm an atheist).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice [wikipedia.org]
Apparently you are a hardcore retributivist. I'm closest to a utilitarian by this scale.
Torturing him doesn't really help anything and is just an asshole manouevre. In my opinion, it's not that one becomes a monster by torturing another, it's that one already is a monster for wanting to torture.
I'm not happy for Hans Reiser's suffering. I'm happy to prevent him from causing any more suffering, and in all fairness, if somebody has to suffer it should be the one who forced the issue.
Re:I can only hope (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not a Christian. I don't believe in forgiveness nor do I believe in rebirth. But I do believe in revenge.
Can you give one reason outside of Christian morality that this man shouldn't be tortured? Please note that the "he might be innocent" excuse just walked out of the door. And don't use the "we'll become monsters too" excuse because it is based on Christian morality (because there is nothing special about humanity).
The concept of justice requires him to be tortured and executed.
I'm an atheist, but I can give you some excellent reasons.
You will debase the people who carry out the punishment. It's lovely that *you* want someone tortured and executed. What about the person who has to carry out that act? What happens to them, year after year as they carry out revenge killings to make people like you happy?
You know what happens to them. They go insane and are themselves tortured. You commit a further crime by making someone torture another person. Do you know what most societies do to those who order the torturing?
Another excellent reason is that making this person suffer isn't impartial justice, it's emotional retribution. It has nothing to do with *why* we have a legal system. In fact, the legal system is partly created to stop this sort of thing happening. We don't want revenge killings and mob justice. We want fairness and impartiality in punishment. And why is that?
Well, sometimes the courts get it wrong. It happened a lot before blood typing and DNA evidence, and still happens today.
How do you recompense someone you tortured and killed when you made a mistake, or when people in the system manipulate evidence to ensure a guilty verdict?
In your retributive world, you'd have to torture and kill members of the bar, the police, the DA and maybe even the jury.
No, I'll stick with a world where there's an impartial, rational legal system, thanks very much. You can keep your torture fantasies to yourself.
Re:So how many "But he's still innocent"... (Score:5, Insightful)
OK, here's a serious answer: his guilt or innocence does not, in any way, change the fact that he was convicted on scant evidence.
It's not the destination that matters, it's the journey. A broken system can send an innocent man to jail as easily as a guilty one.
Re:Bad News for Geeks (Score:5, Funny)
You can always ask Hans to dig one up for you ...
Re:Some people are better off dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless she was pointing a gun at him and it was self-defense, there is *no* excuse.
If a woman makes you angry, are you going to hit her?
If she cheats on you, are you going to kill her?
Will you give her the same rights in return? How about if she just cuts your pecker off instead and feeds it to the dog?
How about if it's your kids? If they don't listen to you, are you going to wack them to "teach them a lesson"?
It's called murder because it wasn't justified. Blaming the victim is just fucked up.
Re:Some people are better off dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Maybe Nina had it coming."
Maybe he made her make him kill her.
Maybe she made him make mer make him kill her.
Maybe he made hr make him make her make him kill her.
No, fuck you, a line has to be drawn, and it's drawn at the point where you fucking kill someone.
Re:Some people are better off dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop right there. There is no such thing as "making X kill Y". Reiser always had other options than murder, and phrasing it as "she made him do it to her" is blaming the victim for the actions of a murderer.
No, let's not lay off. Vast numbers of other people extricate themselves from fucked up situations like Reiser's without resorting to murder. Vast numbers of people don't get into fucked up situations like Reiser's because they see problems developing and deal with them rather than hiding behind a geek badge that reads "proud to be aspie". Vast numbers of people suffer through their problems and don't brutally murder someone, hide their body, maintain their innocence in court, and then use their knowledge of their crime to get a reduced sentence for something they're totally, 100% guilty of.
Well, you do.
Re:Some people are better off dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
>Who knows? Not you or I. So let's lay off the fire and brimstone, what do you say?
Lay off? He murdered a woman! There is NO excuse for murdering someone... ever.. He didn't kill her, he MURDERED her! Soldiers on the battlefield kill, people who work on death row kill, doctors who administer euthanasia kill... Hans MURDERED her. The evil and selfishness of a person who would murder another, just to make their own life a little bit easier, can never be justified.
Sometimes, things really are black and white, right and wrong, evil and good.
Re:Will the FLOSS community handle this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I can't speak for the FOSS community, but for myself: I can.
I don't really care what he did to his wife. It's first of all none of my business and it doesn't affect me. I don't care what someone does in his spare time if his code is good. Yes, it's a pragmatic approach.
Actually, if he started putting backdoors into the filesystem or created an elaborate scheme to rip the users of his software off, the crime would much rather turn me away from his software than the murder of his wife. Mostly because it does affect me.
Re:Goddamnit, here they come (Score:5, Funny)
(sigh) When will people learn? You should NEVER mount something you don't trust anymore. It can really mess up your whole system.
Re:Bitterly admitting the cynics were right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Way to paint the victim as the villain.
Sorry, but there are enough broken marriages that dont end in a psychopatic idiot murdering somebody.
If you donate something, than help his children and not the scumbag.