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Craigslist Shielded From Prosecution In SC
Posted by
Soulskill
on Sun May 24, 2009 11:31 AM
from the at-least-for-now dept.
from the at-least-for-now dept.
viyh writes with an update to the ongoing legal troubles faced by Craigslist over their adult-services ads. According to CNN, a South Carolina judge has told the office of the state's Attorney General, Henry McMaster, to cease their efforts to bring criminal charges against the operators of Craigslist.
"On Friday, Judge Weston Houck granted Craigslist's request for a temporary restraining order preventing McMaster and his employees from 'initiating or pursuing [any] prosecution against Craigslist or its officers and employees in relation to content posted by third parties on Craigslist's Web site' until the court rules on the merits of the site's lawsuit. Craigslist's lawsuit cites an interview McMaster gave to Fox News on Monday, in which he likened the site 'to a hotel or motel owner that knows prostitution is going on on their premises and fails to do anything about it especially after having been told.'"
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[+]
Craigslist Kills Erotic Services Ads, Will Launch Adult Section 390 comments
CWmike writes "Submitting to mounting legal pressure, Craigslist has announced that it will remove the Erotic Services category from its classified advertising Web site within seven days. The move comes just two and a half weeks after Jim Buckmaster, CEO of Craigslist, told Computerworld that the company had no intention of removing the category. While it's taking down the category, it will be launching a new category called Adult Services, for which each posting will be manually reviewed before it appears. 'Unsurprisingly, but completely contrary to some of the sensationalistic journalism we've seen these past few weeks, the record is clear that use of Craigslist classifieds is associated with far lower rates of violent crime than print classifieds, let alone rates of violent crime pertaining to American society as a whole,' said Buckmaster in a blog post today. 'We are optimistic that the new balance struck today will be an acceptable compromise from the perspective of the constituencies, and for the diverse US communities that value and rely upon Craigslist.'"
[+]
Your Rights Online: Craigslist Fights Back, Sues SC Atty General 286 comments
FredMastro writes "Craigslist has now stepped past just asking for an apology. The Wall Street Journal and CNet report that Craigslist is fighting back. 'Craigslist said it has sued South Carolina Attorney General Henry McMaster, in the latest escalation of a battle over adult-oriented ads on the company's site. Jim Buckmaster, Craigslist's chief executive, said in a blog post that the company filed its suit in federal court in South Carolina. ...'" Unfortunately, the WSJ's piece requires a subscription, but reader Locke2005 adds a link to coverage in the San Jose Business Journal.
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Mass moderation not possible (Score:5, Insightful)
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Isn't it easier and far more just for craigslist to take a neutural stance and let the justice system do it's job on a neutural basis.
I don't know, that takes some serious balls, and might leave craigslist a fertile ground for lawsuits. The courts are quite potent, you know...
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Erotic services are illegal? Ah, so that is why there are no strip clubs in USA?
Helping people find such services is illegal? Oh, that is why the advertisers, etc. of such clubs are thrown into jail.
Spending money in order to get sex is illegal? Oh, cops should have thrown me to jail many times when I've offered a drink to someone.
What exactly is illegal is far, far narrower than "erotic services" and it makes a big difference here. And while I frequently use Wikipedia myself, I don't think that it always g
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Bad example.
We all know that prostitution never occurs at strip clubs or between their employees and patrons off grounds.
Re:This is not moderation, this is accomodation. (Score:5, Interesting)
Chances are good your local yellow pages also has a section dedicated to "erotic services". I don't see those going away. SC just thinks it can play "but it's on the internet" card and get away with it.
Parent
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Re:This is not moderation, this is accomodation. (Score:5, Insightful)
Firstly, the last place anyone should go for real facts on something is Wikipedia.
Secondly, the situation in Amsterdam isn't as bad as you nor Wikipedia claims it to be (NGO's distort facts for funding).
Thirdly, even if that were true, there's plenty of other countries were legalized prostitution works extremely well, Germany, Switzerland etc.
Fourthly, organized crime is involved in prostitution everywhere, by legalizing it you are on the first step to reducing the problem of organized crime.
Fifthly, "Erotic Services" are not actually illegal -- it depends on what that service is, and how transactions occur. Phone sex, webcam sex services for example are "erotic services" and wholly legal.
Just because organized crime is involved in prostitution, doesn't mean that a legalized system can't be properly run to reduce that. See Prohibition for an example of how making something illegal leads to a black market and organized crime -- legalizing it reduces that problem.
Parent
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Thirdly, even if that were true, there's plenty of other countries were legalized prostitution works extremely well, Germany, Switzerland etc.
Don't forget the United States. There's legalized and regulated prostitution in Nevada.
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Escort style prostitution is also legal in Rhode Island.
Re:This is not moderation, this is accomodation. (Score:5, Informative)
We've had legalized prostitution in New Zealand since 2003.
Contrary to the scaremongering promulgated by people with hidden agendas, the sky has not fallen, and people working in the world's oldest profession have the full protection of the law behind them, just like everyone else.
Doesn't mean there isn't still a social stigma associated with it, but at least they're not forced into the underground and exploited by criminals, and they pay their taxes just like everyone else.
Parent
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We've had legalized prostitution in New Zealand since 2003.
I agree wholly with your reading of the situation, but one small correction: prostitution hasn't been legalised, it's been decriminalised. As I understand it (IANAL) that means basically that it's unregulated -- no employment or health-and-safety regulations, for example, other than the kind of endangerment and contractual issues that apply to everyone regardless of their line of work.
In some ways I find this a much preferable situation to legalisation, as (a) it's purer capitalism -- less regulation --, an
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prostitution hasn't been legalised, it's been decriminalised.
So it's not legal, but it's not a crime either?
Is it a civil matter, then? Who's supposed to sue the prostitutes? Their customers?
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I have to ask because of the subject line, but when you wrote IANAL- do you mean you are not a lawyer or you like ANAL (giving or getting- it doesn't matter)?
Just wondering.
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The best reason for having a board on Craigslist advertising for commercial sex is that, otherwise, the same people will spam the m4w, w4m and *4* boards and annoy people looking for noncommercial sex.
And now that is in fact happening on Craigslist.
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I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. (The 60's were over decades ago.)
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So what your saying is that perhaps some of the ads in w4m will be real women now instead of computer programs.
---
all kidding aside, I found much better luck posting in m4w and adding a topical question-- "What is the huge shopping mall at the corner of these two freeways". the response I got which had an answer were always human. Call it a personal "Captcha".
How did he know? (Score:1)
Politicians (Score:2)
in which [McMaster] likened the site "to a hotel or motel owner that knows prostitution is going on on their premises and fails to do anything about it especially after having been told."
Yet McMaster and (most) other politicians have been whoring themselves to corporate and special interest lobbyists since time immemorial. Not only do the "owners" of the house know this, everyone knows this, and there's actual public demand for this to stop.
When will McMaster do something about that?
Oh, the hypocrisy (New York State division) (Score:3, Funny)
I see that New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo just indicted 7 people for running a prostitution ring on Craigslist. http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/20/craigslist.prostitution/index.html [cnn.com]
The last New York State Attorney General to indict people on prostitution charges was Elliot Spitzer.
Just saying.
Distraction (Score:1)
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Ouch, that comment STINGS...
Don't Prosecute it - USE IT! (Score:5, Insightful)
"in which he likened the site 'to a hotel or motel owner that knows prostitution is going on on their premises and fails to do anything about it especially after having been told."
Yes, a hotel with 100,000,000 rooms. Brilliant analogy.
This is a perfect opportunity for law enforcement to USE CRAIGSLIST TO BUST THESE PEOPLE. Don't shut it down -- use it to your advantage! These 'criminals' will just go elsewhere and shutting down Craigslist is as effective as shutting down Pacific Blvd. after 9PM... In other words: ineffectual
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*cough*eBay*cough*
Tinfoil hat is now off (laugh it's funny).
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I wish their was an equally popular alternative to eBay. Craigslist sort of answers the call, but is generally only effective locally.
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I continue to be convinced that Law Enforcement realises how useful Craigs List could be for busting prostitution. That's why they want it shut down. If craigslist exists, they'll be called out if they ignore it. I
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If they shouldn't be going to jail, then the law should be changed to make their actions legal. If that's how you feel, lobby Congress. In the mean time, the law should be enforced.
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Why not a fine instead of jail... prostitutes will call it a cost of doing business and the public will profit from the ones who get caught. Use the money exclusively for a) health costs related to STDs and b) prison expenses
The only reason not to make it a fine is that by doing so society is profiting from something some people may consider immoral.
I'm actually of the opinion that prostitution is illegal not for moral reasons but to maintain the status quo. With legal sex trade there would be a lot lot mor
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Craigslist more than a website?!? (Score:2)
And here I thought Craigslist was just a website! I'll have to find out where my local Craigslist flea market is, and what its hours are.
The Good Fight (Score:2)
Sauce for the goose... (Score:3, Interesting)
South Carolina Attorney General Henry McMaster says Craigslist deserves to be prosecuted because the site is like "...a hotel or motel owner that knows prostitution is going on on their premises and fails to do anything about it, especially after having been told."
Perhaps Mr. McMaster himself should be prosecuted. Prostitutes openly flaunt their wares on the streets of every major city in his state, yet McMaster has failed to limit their activities in any meaningful way. If he put half the time and effort into cleaning up South Carolina's sin-soaked streets as he has attempting to prosecute a glorified Want Ads site, perhaps that situation could be improved.
Of course, that might involve busting a few familiar faces (cough Spitzer cough).
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Except, of course, his efforts regarding Craigslist are intended to clean up those same streets. Or more precisely, the bedrooms off those streets.
And what percentage of South Carolina's prostitution is facilitated by Craigslist?
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If you truly believe that Prostitutes are openly flaunting their wares on the streets of every major city, then you should address your complaints to the local sheriffs or whatever the head of whatever police agencies those cities have is called.
Head of the police agency for a city would just be Chief of Police. A sheriff generally is the head LEO at a county or parish level.
If they're not doing their job, then maybe the Attorney General could bring the sheriffs up on charges.
You can't bring someone up on charges because you don't think they're doing a good enough job. If they're taking bribes to look the other way or something like that then yes, but simply lack of enforcement in general you can't prosecute anyone for. You can fire them if they're hired. Sheriff's are elected though, and many police chiefs are too, so it's not the option of the
Am I the only one that read... (Score:2)
the title as:
"Craigslist Shielded from Prostitution in SC"?
whaaaa??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Since when do judges (Score:5, Insightful)
How exactly do you think this is corruption? Craigslist got a preliminary injunction because of their pending lawsuit claiming that the state's prosecution is a violation of the First and Fourteenth Amendments.
Parent
Re:Since when do judges (Score:5, Insightful)
'Corruption'?
You've got that backwards - this is a clear and wonderful example of a judge /doing the job of a judge/.
Parent
Re:Since when do judges (Score:5, Interesting)
Since when do judges get to decide who can be prosecuted?
Since when do pilots get to fly planes?
Since when to mechanics get to fix cars?
Who, pray tell, do you believe is supposed to judge who has a valid case or not? What would you call the person who you have the job of making that judgement?
Parent
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I strongly suspect the original poster is thinking of a grand jury's job to determine whether evidence is sufficient to justify prosecution, so he has a point. In this case, the judge is looking much more at questions of law and not so much at questions of fact. Nobody (to my admittedly limited knowledge), is claiming that its not a fact sex industry people are advertising on Craigslist. There may be some legitimate issues over how many, what portion of the services advertised actually count as prostitution
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Grand Juries are only involved in certain cases and jurisdictions.
O Rly?
Fifth Amendment - Rights of Persons
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to
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Yes, Rly.
First: The grand jury clause in the 5th amendment hasn't been incorporated under the 14th, which means that there hasn't been a ruling that makes the states bound by it.
Second: From what I can gather from skimming the SC Penal code the craigslist charges (assuming that minors wern't involved) would be Class C misdemeanors, which don't need indictments.
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"Who, pray tell, do you believe is supposed to judge who has a valid case or not? What would you call the person who you have the job of making that judgement?"
People who think TV shows like CSI and Bones are a representation of the real world are unaware of things called "judges" and "due process" and hell even court rooms and other such boring tedium. They suffer the delusion that real world police departments have quirky, supremely arrogant yet infinitely knowledgeable individuals who have access to mul
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...do you actually understand what job somebody given the position 'judge' does?
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Corruption?!? A declaratory judgment action is actually an essential legal right.
http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/ED8E9D0B-38C9-4D40-ADC1E5392D91A929/alpha/D/
The prosecutor has threatened to bring charges against Craigslist. Why should Craigslist have to wait for the Attorney General to decide to bring charges. He could keep making threats without bringing any charges as long as he wants. These threats cast a cloud over Craigslist, so they have the right to have the issue resolved, i.e., have the
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Er, since there have been judges and courts?
Can you read? Do you understand how the courts work?
Judges can issue temporary injunctions against -anybody-. If they are unfounded, all the AG has to do is talk to another judge to get it removed. That doesn't work if the injunction is issued for legitimate reasons, because judge #2 will just say "Looks like they did the right thing to me, better just wait it out".
In this case, Craigslist has a pending lawsuit against the SC AG in its initial stages. The SC AG
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Yes :
Excerpted from an old advert:
"Generous , kind , sugardaddy wanted." What part of generous
and sugardaddy did you not understand?
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"Generous, kind, sugardaddy wanted."
They also ask for flowers. You know, "30 roses for 15 minutes" or "120 roses for an hour."
Flower shops must be doing a booming business.
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No matter how other people said,all of people Should be determined by law,People is not laws!!
Of course not, they is SOYLENT GREEN!