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WSJ Confirms RIAA Fired MediaSentry
Posted by
kdawson
on Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:23 PM
from the meet-the-new-boss dept.
from the meet-the-new-boss dept.
newtley writes "Two days ago we discussed the earlier p2pnet report that the RIAA had fired MediaSentry (now called SafeNet). Now the Wall Street Journal is confirming this report. MediaSentry has been 'invading the privacy of people,' the WSJ quotes Ray Beckerman; 'They've been doing very sloppy work.' Beckerman cites MediaSentry's practice of 'looking for available songs in people's filesharing folders, uploading them, and using those uploads in court as evidence of copyright violations.' MediaSentry 'couldn't prove defendants had shared their files with anyone other than MediaSentry investigators.' The WSJ notes, 'In place of MediaSentry, the RIAA says it will use Copenhagen-based DtecNet Software ApS. The music industry had worked with DtecNet previously both in the US and overseas, and liked its technology...' "
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Has RIAA Fired MediaSentry? 76 comments
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "According to a tantalizing 'unconfirmed' report, it appears that the RIAA has jettisoned MediaSentry (now known as SafeNet) as its 'investigator.' MediaSentry has come under heat in a number of different states for the fact that it was 'investigating' without an investigator's license and invading people's privacy. Earlier this year it was found to have made diametrically conflicting written statements to two different tribunals within 30 days of each other, in one denying that it was an 'expert witness,' in another claiming that it was an 'expert witness.' If the report is accurate, the termination comes at an interesting time, since MediaSentry's investigator is the plaintiffs' only fact witness to prove copyright infringement in Capitol Records v. Thomas, which is now headed for a retrial on March 9th. If he does take the stand, the reasons for his company's termination will be fair game for cross examination. One also has to wonder if it's in any way connected to the puzzling enigma of the New York Attorney General's alleged involvement in the RIAA's recent Wall Street Journal announcement that it would be reducing its p2p file sharing cases to a trickle."
[+]
Appeals Court Stays RIAA Subpoena Vs. Students 266 comments
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The procedures used by the RIAA the past 5 years in suing 'John Does' without their knowing about it have never been subjected to scrutiny by an appeals court, since most of the 'John Does' never learn about the 'ex parte' proceeding until it's too late to do anything about it. That is about to change. In Arista Records v. Does 1-16, a case targeting students at the Albany Campus of the State University of New York, the US Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit has decided to put things on hold while it takes a careful look at what transpired in the lower court. The way it came to this is that a few 'John Does' filed a broad-based challenge to a number of the RIAA's procedures, citing the defendant's constitutional rights, the insufficiency of the complaint, the lack of personal jurisdiction over the defendants, improper misjoinder of the defendants, and the RIAA's illegal procurement of its 'evidence' through the use of an unlicensed investigator, MediaSentry. The lower court judges gave short shrift to 'John Doe #3,' but he promptly filed an appeal, and asked for a stay of the subpoena and lower court proceedings during the pendency of the appeal. The RIAA opposed the motion, arguing that John Doe's appeal had no chance of success. The Appeals Court disagreed and granted the motion, freezing the subpoena and putting the entire case on hold until the appeal is finally determined. As one commentator said, 'this news has been a long time coming, but is welcomed.'"
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If by fired (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I've got nothing against the RIAA enforcing copyright for illegally shared media. This is their duty and the artists are the legal copyright holders. What I do have a problem with is their methods such as MediaSentry's dirty little tricks like this, and the targeting of young teenagers and grandparents - which sets no real precedent and doesn't send a message to the real pirates except to say "we're a bunch of arseholes so go ahead and pirate some more."
If this switch to DtecNet can usher in an age of ethic
Re:If by fired (Score:5, Insightful)
I've got nothing against the RIAA enforcing copyright for illegally shared media. This is their duty and the artists are the legal copyright holders. What I do have a problem with is their methods such as MediaSentry's dirty little tricks like this, and the targeting of young teenagers and grandparents - which sets no real precedent and doesn't send a message to the real pirates except to say "we're a bunch of arseholes so go ahead and pirate some more."
So, what should they do? Should they subpoena the ISP and find out who the perpetrator is and then drop the case if they person is over or under a certain age? If they did that they would be right back on the front page of Slashdot for age discrimination, and for having selected arbitrary ages as being OK to pirate.
I'm not going to defend the RIAA's business model, but the type of criticism they get generally smacks of rationalizations. Their is no way for them to defend their media rights, realistically, but people blow way out of proportion the handful of cases that are incorrectly filed as if that negates all of the others.
I'll likely be modded troll for this, but I'd bet that 99+% of all of the cases even filed by the RIAA (let alone that actual led to decisions or settlements) were against people who were breaking the law and downloading / uploading illegally.
I don't want to defend the RIAA's methods, but it just seems like everyone who posts against the RIAA would be unwilling to accept ANY form of defensive action by them.
I don't like the RIAA, I don't like how they price music or run the business, but it isn't for me to dictate to them how they should run their business. And while I do download music illegally, I don't justify it by saying it is cause the RIAA sucks or that they shouldn't be able to defend their intellectual property rights.
Parent
Re:If by fired (Score:4, Insightful)
Lets call it like it is. This has always been about PR. Let those who download music know. If you share music for download...WE WILL FIND YOU.
While realisticly speaking, you have a better chance of winning a lottery than getting charged by the RIAA. Still the name of the game is image. In the long run. Going after 9 year old girls. Going after people who are seriously handicapped and on a fixed income. Going after old people who are even clueless about if they own a computer. May not be the best way to win the PR war.
I think their downfall was getting lawyers involved. They started running it like a protection racket. We get an IP address and someone says it was used by you. Pay us $5,000.00, say your a thief, a pirate and promise never download music again...even from iTunes. Then we will go away.
As a way for the RIAA to cap people for $5,00 weather they can afford it or not. So they can make a little dough. It worked well enough. As a way to stop actual file sharing...it failed. As a way to win the PR war in the public eye on file sharing. They went after two many of the wrong people.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You are wrong--sort of.
First, downloading copyrighted content without permission IS illegal. Downloading, in and of itself, is not. Downloading copyrighted content without permission violates one of exclusive rights of the author: the right to make copies.
Second, "making content available" is not actually one of the exclusive rights. However, distribution is an exclusive right of the copyright owner. One of the ongoing problems for the RIAA has been making the connection between "making available" and the d
Re:If by fired (Score:5, Informative)
"This is their duty and the artists are the legal copyright holders."
I would like to point out to you that usually this is not the case. The music company usually retains the copyright to songs created by the artists they employ.
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Something is Rotten in Demark (Score:5, Interesting)
Am I the only one who wonders about the legal implications of hiring a firm based in Copenhagen? Do they suppose that that will protect them from the consequences of using investigators who are not licensed in the USA? Or do they plan to poison more torrents and release more spoof files rather than suing people?
The only thing I can think of when I read this is that they plan to cheat the system somehow and I can only wonder what they plan to do next...
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This will not end well because of one word:
Espionage.
A foreign nation becoming involved, one breach of security, this doesn't look good on paper, why the hell would it look any better in real life? Opps that was a military laptop with illegal mp3s... oh crap..
Not exactly, the copyright is typically _assigned_ (Score:5, Interesting)
> The music company usually retains the copyright
Not exactly, in most cases the artist(s) assign their copyrights to the labels, and this means that soon, starting around 2013, there will be an interesting battle in the Federal courts whether or not the artists can terminate these assignments as stipulated in the 1976 Copyright Act [usc.edu].
Parent
Re:If by fired (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually I have a feeling that while many might look at the death of Mediasentry as a good thing, I think it will end up being a lot worse. Because before you could fight them in court and who knows, if you got lucky you might get some law school or even NYCLawyer to take the case. Now it looks like they are just going to bypass the courts and go straight to the ISPs, which in most places have a monopoly. So I have a feeling if you use BT or any other file sharing tool 3 times they will just get the ISP to bounce you and that is it. After all by going to the ISP you will have to PROVE you didn't do anything wrong, which as most know proving a negative is pretty much impossible. And most ISPs aren't going to do the kind of deep packet investigation to see what you are down/uploading, most will just take the *.A.As word for it. And sadly with so little competition in most of the USA you can be effectively cut off from the Internet thanks to the *.A.As if they manage to get the ISPs to join in(and since most have media services they want to sell you it wouldn't surprise me if they jumped on board).
And since the net is one of the last great ways we have to speak out and be heard I bet it won't take them long to figure out it makes a pretty effective SLAPP to boot. After all with a private ISP they don't have to PROVE anything, since most TOS gives the ISP a thousand out clauses. What we need is copyright reforms, not more craziness from the media cartels. Sadly with both the dems and repubs bought and sold I just don't see it happening in my lifetime.
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When it reaches large numbers there will be a bill (Score:3, Insightful)
The business-model of ISPs is to sell internet-access to people. So if someone wants them to disconnect someone there will be a price-tag on this customer including the money spent on acquiring a customer in the first place and the amount of money the ISP expects to earn with this customer.
As it is a network industry there will be almost nil cost-reduction due to having a customer less (it ought to only effect peering-fees that can be attributed to this specific customer).
If a customer is not profitable due
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
But you are missing the upside to greedy ISPs. If you get rid of everyone that actually USES the amount they paid for then they can keep overselling like mad and never need to pay for any infrastructure upgrades. We have heard time and time again that it is these "granny" users that are nothing but profit for the ISPs since they use so little bandwidth compared to what they pay for. So by becoming the *.A.As buttmonkey they can cut off their "costly" users while having a great excuse that will keep 99% of t
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
While on the surface it SOUNDS like you SHOULD be right, you have to think like a corporate bean counter. When you figure in the cost of an infrastructure upgrade(because even the lamest home users have heard of Hulu and Youtube) then I'm willing to bet it is FAR cheaper to simply toss all those that use file sharing apps than it is to run the huge amounts of fiber and extra switching equipment and server upgrades required to keep up. Even if you charge them $1.50 a GB they will still cost you more. After a
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The kind of people the RIAA tends to go after are file share[r]s, people who use a lot of bandwidth.
Actually they do not go after the heavier file sharers, most of whom use BitTorrent, and have been for years. Every single case I've seen has been based on either the Gnutella protocol or the FastTrack protocol. I have never seen a case from the RIAA based on BitTorrent. The kind of people the RIAA has been going after are (a) people who never did any file sharing at all, but have enough money to pay a settlement, and (b) kids who did a modest amount of file sharing. All of which explains why their 'terror'
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This is their duty and the artists are the legal copyright holders.
When the artists are the legal copyright holders, the RIAA won't do anything.
First, they aren't allowed to, because the artists have not authorized them to act in their name. Second, it's not the RIAA's job to look out for artists...it is their job to look out for the media companies.
If you check, every major label CD has the copyright assigned to the company that distributed it, and the recording artist actually has no right to distribute those recordings without permission of the record label.
The Fall Man (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The Fall Man (Score:5, Funny)
Burma Shave
Parent
The question is though (Score:5, Interesting)
Bad summary: uploads != downloads (Score:5, Interesting)
Beckerman cites MediaSentry's practice of 'looking for available songs in people's filesharing folders, uploading them, and using those uploads in court as evidence of copyright violations.
The MSN article reports:
Mr. Beckerman cites MediaSentry's practice of looking for available songs in people's file-sharing folders, downloading them, and using those downloads in court as evidence of copyright violations.
Whilst it's still a scummy thing to do, it's not as bad as uploading to peoples' filesharing folders and then taking them to court for copyright violations.
Re:Bad summary: uploads != downloads (Score:5, Insightful)
Dear lord, must we really suffer summaries on /. that confuse the difference between uploading and downloading??
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Has kdawson ever disappointed?
Re:Bad summary: uploads != downloads (Score:5, Funny)
It depends on your point of view.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
All that matters is who originated the file transfer, i.e. If I am downloading something, you wouldn't say "The server is uploading something to me." Nor would it make any sense to say "The server is downloading something from me." when I am in fact uploading.
Re:Bad summary: uploads != downloads (Score:5, Funny)
> All that matters is who originated the file transfer, i.e. If I am downloading something, you wouldn't say "The server is uploading something to me." Nor would it make any sense to say "The server is downloading something from me." when I am in fact uploading.
Actually, I know plenty of people who would say exactly that and think it made sense. I would go so far to say that it's going the way of the "hacker vs. cracker" distinction in that few people appear to care at this point. Best find some new terms, like they did with the white hat/black hat thing.
I mean, at this point, if you say that crackers broke into your website, people will be on the lookout for someone speaking with a southern drawl...
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
Ok guys... (Score:5, Funny)
Now, I have neither the ability nor the intention; but I can dream...
They were evil... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:They were evil... (Score:5, Insightful)
there is a baseline level of incompetence which is unacceptable even for the RIAA
On that I beg to differ. The incompetence was something the RIAA was at all times aware of, and condoned. They didn't care if they got 20,000 or so 'false positives'. This was about creating a climate of terror. They were interested in getting something done cheaply, and it creating widespread fear. As it turns out the only people who ever came to fear the RIAA were the people who were not computer savvy and were not big file sharers.
And if you think the level of competence at the RIAA is better than MediaSentry's, why don't you take a survey of the record company shareholders and ask them how competent the RIAA was in administering this campaign.
Parent
Re:They were evil... (Score:4, Insightful)
They didn't care if they got 20,000 or so 'false positives'
... because they still made thousands of dollars from each of those 'false positives' by threatening them with a lawsuit.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Lawsuits are not cheap. As Ray intimated, the RIAA has actually lost money on this litigation campaign. That just the direct effect -- settlements minus legal fees. They were presumably really interested in an indirect effect -- scaring people into not sharing music online. (They were presumably not interested in the indirect effect of making lots of people realize that they're evil jackasses.)
Re:They were evil... (Score:4, Interesting)
And if you think the level of competence at the RIAA is better than MediaSentry's, why don't you take a survey of the record company shareholders
I don't know if it's just me getting angrier as I get older, but I find that the level of competence is slipping everywhere and in everything. I only have to look around my office to see around half the people that are less than competent, and it seems that it was eons ago that I got above satisfactory customer service during a transaction of some sort.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it's just that our expectations increase as the years go by. Pretty much every company I've ever had a problem with has taken steps to make things right, with the possible exception of Comcast. When we got charged wrong, we get a gift certificate for free pizza. When I called to find out why I wasn't getting some channels in HD (the idiot who signed me up failed to mention that the "HD Package" didn't include the Sunday Ticket channels), they upgraded me for free. (Sure, it should be included in
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Mr. Beckerman, I frequently enjoy your coverage of legal battles around copyright and the RIAA, but please take care with your superlatives so that your important message remains strong. "creating a climate of *terror*" seems over-the-top. Maybe sticking with "fear" is more appropriate in this case. (Hope this is taken as the constructive criticism that it is intended. I want your message of sensibility to prevail!)
I don't worry about what people think. I tell the truth as I perceive it to be. If you'd spoken to the victims of this on a daily basis for the past 4 years, as I have, I think you'd wish there were a stronger word to describe the terror, anxiety, humiliation, and degradation to which Matthew Oppenheim and his gang of thugs have subjected them.
It wouldn't terrorize you, no doubt, and it wouldn't terrorize me, either. But not every RIAA defendant is like you or me.
Re:They were evil... (Score:5, Insightful)
We should assume that they were fired for becoming a worn out tool, a liability. In politics the term is "throw them under the bus."
The reasons for that are obvious - they lied too much, they broke the law several times, they were shown to be incompetent, use unproven, arbitrary methods, and so on. RIAA simply couldn't use them any more, since every witness from MediaSentry would be immediately confronted with their own earlier contradictory statements, and RIAA would lose the case.
Parent
The plot thickens.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Any ideas where they go from here?
I don't know. Chapter 11?
DtecNet (Score:5, Interesting)
From their web site [dtecnet.com]:
"The evidence generated by DtecNet has been used and approved by criminal and civil courts alike across Europe."
I know it's too early to tell, but assuming if their claims were true...
If their evidence can satisfy the European courts, which are more protective of the individual (my POV, barring history), then what trouble would they have in the US courts?
"By only targeting content positively identified as illegal, the system avoids the problems of targeting P2P protocols indiscriminately securing maximum bandwidth for legal traffic."
Interesting, how would they know - they'll have to download a copy, right? If I record my own karaoke and share it out, does it count?
Also, won't they fall into the same "couldn't prove defendants had shared their files with anyone other than investigators" situation? (Imagine if they say that my <insert lousy movie here> episode is downloaded 50,000 times!)
Re:DtecNet (Score:5, Funny)
Also, won't they fall into the same "couldn't prove defendants had shared their files with anyone other than investigators" situation? (Imagine if they say that my episode is downloaded 50,000 times!)
"Which was, your Honour, the number of downloads we expect the defendant to have made over the term of infringement, three months, via defendant's Internet connection which I believe Your Honour can be shown to be from defendant's laptop using it's built-in fifty-six thousand bit per second (scowls and raises eyebrow significantly at jury) Modulator-Demodulator unit over a known telephone line identified as belonging to ..."
Parent
My guess is (Score:5, Funny)
Tomorrow's news headline... (Score:5, Funny)
What of the jilted lover? (Score:5, Interesting)
So what're the odds of some sort of memo surfacing from a jilted SafeNet from the RIAA saying something to the effect of 'Use any means possible! We have good lawyers! Don't worry about breaking the law! These fools can't fight us, this is America!! And in this country the laws are written by the people with the most money! Namely US! The RIAA, and all our members! Wahahaha!'?
Aside from the obvious self incrimination I mean.
Just in case, you're reading, MediaSentry (Score:3, Funny)
Just because past experience has shown that the guys at MediaSentry tend to read all the online articles about themselves, I'd like to insert this comment here:
* Fuck you guys *
Thanks! That is all.
Paying a foreign company to spy on Americans? (Score:5, Interesting)
So the RIAA is already paying a foreign company to spy on Americans internet usage in the USA? Isn't that in violation of some state or federal privacy/computer intrusion legislation?
Re:Paying a foreign company to spy on Americans? (Score:5, Informative)
I think quite a lot of misunderstood what DtecNet does, they are a software provider and can help with technical things during proceedings. They create software for eavesdropping on torrent etc. - the people who is going to use it are very much American.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They create software for eavesdropping on torrent etc. - the people who is going to use it are very much American.
DtecNet happens to share offices with the Danish counterpart to RIAA, AntiPiratGruppen, and AFAIK DtecNet is responsible for the entire process of "securing evidence" here.
Shocked! (Score:4, Funny)
Shocked and astonished I am! Scandalous! That a company should do exactly what we pay them to and report to us exactly what they are doing, and that somehow we would still be ignorant of the exact nature of their activities! Those responsible should be fired, obviously!
Err... why's everyone looking at me like that?
Re:Does this mean... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not entirely sure, but I would imagine that the only people with a potential case against MediaSentry would be the RIAA themselves for "misrepresenting" them or something and I very much doubt the RIAA would sue their partners in crime, MediaSentry almost certainly has plenty of dirt on them.
I'm not sure how Privacy laws work with regards to P2P, but it's probably quite easy to show you willingly shared the contents of your Hard Drive with others, or you'd be able to sue every other P2P user out there who connects to you.
Then again, I sure as shit aren't a lawyer and in this Crazy, topsy turvy world we live in, anything is possible.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
For false evidence you're probably right. The RIAA would have contracted MediaSentry and used their evidence for DMCA takedowns and court cases. As the RIAA were presenting their evidence they would have most of the responsibility, but corporations rarely get anything other than fines and if they're smart the RIAA would have contracted the responsibility for their evidence to MediaSentry. Any victim would have to deal directly with the RIAA's faulty accusations because MediaSentry were a contractor of the R
Well said, sir! (Score:5, Funny)
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