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Dutch Study Says Filesharing Has Positive Economic Effects
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:18 AM
from the like-helping-kids-save-money-for-college dept.
from the like-helping-kids-save-money-for-college dept.
An anonymous reader writes "In a study conducted by TNO for the Dutch government the economic effects of filesharing are found to be positive. According to the 146 page report (available for download, but in Dutch) filesharing is good for the prosperity of the Dutch: with filesharing more media are available, even though this costs the media industry some profit. One of the most noticeable conclusions is that downloading and buying are not mutually exclusive: downloaders on average buy just as much music as non-downloaders, but they buy more DVDs and games then people who don't download. They also tend to visit more concerts and buy more merchandise."
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Submission: Economic effects filesharing found to be positive by Anonymous Coward
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report available for download (Score:5, Funny)
Re: report available for download (Score:5, Insightful)
Example: http://www.rufuspollock.org/economics/p2p_summary.html [rufuspollock.org]
Parent
Re: report available for download (Score:5, Insightful)
Music downloads are just a form of free advertising. Hell, people are falling all over themselves to write software to do it, set up websites to promote it and use them to get the music. The music industry doesn't have to do a thing. There's still a ton of money to be made on merchandising, touring, advertising, etc.. If only the music industry could just grasp this very basic point...
Parent
Re: report available for download (Score:5, Insightful)
What worries the various *AA's is the opposite effect. When someone downloads the next big thing and discovers it's crap so they don't but it.
They would rather just have you buy everything sight unseen. It's not like you can take it back.
Parent
Re: report available for download (Score:4, Insightful)
*Gasp* you mean the MafiAA's business model is predicated on the customer being too stupid/uninformed to know when what they are buying is worth the money?
For Shame! I would never have known... well actually I would, because I make it a point not to purchase anything without doing the research first.
Parent
Re: report available for download (Score:4, Interesting)
Sometimes it is a matter of exactly who either makes or keeps their money. In the case of the Dutch they probably import more software and music than they export. It keeps those nice dutch dollars at home.
Florida used to be like that. All phone sales were fine with local law enforcement as long as money was being brought into Florida no matter how crooked the sale. The trick was that it was understood that they were never to try their sales pitches on Florida residents. Salesmen rarely really know the entire game plan. The salesmen were simply told that no Florida residents were to be called as then sales taxes would have to be collected. Back in 1980 there were probably at least 60,000 crooked phone sales persons working in the Ft.Lauderdale area alone.
Parent
Re: report available for download (Score:4, Interesting)
Well I can give my own personal anecdote that backs that up. In the late '90s I heard all these critics going on about this show called "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" written by this guy I had never heard of and based on a movie I hated. But they didn't have a WB station within reach from where I lived. So finally out of curiosity I fired up the mule and downloaded a couple of eps to see what the fuss was about.
I liked the show enough I ended up buying the complete Buffy, Angel, and Firefly which I have sitting in their pretty boxes on my shelf. If it wouldn't have been for P2P I would have never seen it(we never did get a WB station around here) and thus wouldn't have dropped nearly a grand on the set. So in at least my case they made a nice profit off of P2P.
Parent
Always the dutch .... (Score:5, Interesting)
a little big nation. kudos.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They also were the worst colonizers (have a look at the dutch east indies corporation).
So, as I'm sure most dutch will tell you, they're far from perfect.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Honouring my Dutch blood, I couldn't agree more with the second part of your post
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I believe he refers to what this colonizing has done to the colonies.
Re:Always the dutch .... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Always the dutch .... (Score:5, Funny)
If only they'd learn to cook
What are you talking about?
I once ordered coffee and cookies at some cafe or coffee shop or something. Man, those were some great cookies!
Parent
Translation (Score:5, Informative)
And to do something in return I'll give you my attempt at translating the interesting parts of the article (which is quite interesting). Note that the net effect on the content industry is still negative, and the net gain for Dutch prosperity is positive, this might be because quite a bit of the losses are outside the country. It can also be seen as a proof of the failure of the normal free market model to give an optimal allocation of resources in the case of near-zero marginal costs.
----
File sharing has positive net effect on economy
The economyic effects of file sharing on Dutch prosperity on long and short term are positive. Consumers obtain access to a wide range of cultural products due to file sharing. On the other hand it is likely that there is a decrease of turnover in the sales.
This was shown by a joint study of TNO, SEO Economic Research, and the Institute for Information Rights (IViR) into the economic and social consequences of file sharing for music, films, and games ordered by the Ministries of Education & Culture, Economic Affairs, and Justice. This analysis is conducted based on a study of statistics and recent scientific literatur, interviews with frequent downloaders, a representative survey of the Dutch population and a number of informative workshops with the [media] sector.
Estimates of the volume of global unauthorised downloading are widely divergent. The global count is at least several billion files per year, a substantial part of the international Internet traffic. Around 4.7 million Dutch Internet users of 15 years and older have downloaded something without authorisation in the past year. Citizens view downloading and sharing of music, films, and games as socially accepted, but know little of the technique and regulation involved.
[...]
Net prosperity gain
For the music industry the downloaded recordings cannot be translated 1-on-1 into lost sales. Many downloading consumers would not have bought the same amount of music [that they downloaded] against current prices if downloaded would not be possible. Additionally, there are people who download music in order to get to know it and buy it if they like it.
Although there are also positive effects of downloading music on sales, a negative effect on the turnover of the involved sectors is likely. This is especially the case for music because downloading music has become the most normal. There is a differentiated effect based on the artist: well-known artist are most impacted negatively, while relatively unknown artists can even profit when file sharing increases their reknown. For society at large the lost turnover of the [media] sector is opposed to the gains by the large group of downloaders that would otherwise not have made a purchase. The net effect on prosperity is substantial.
Rise of new business models
The music and film industry are faced by the challenge of matching their supply with the changed consumer demand. New business models are on the rise. The music industry is moving to use new sources of revenue (concerts, merchanise, sponsoring). There is a place for music recordings, but in the future it will probably become impossible to run a company on music recordings alone. Within the movie industry the markets of cinema and DVD sales are still growing. DVD rentals are down strongly. In the longer term this might change as faster internet becomes available. Here also new business models are important. The gaming industry is growing in spurts, especially console games and their combination of hardware and software. Especially here file sharing is less prevalent than in e.g. PC games, where turnover is stagnating. A platform bound official game has so many advantages that it is not inconceivable that this branch will be able to aboid file sharing to a larger degree than the music industry.
Parent
Re:Translation (Score:4, Interesting)
> It can also be seen as a proof of the failure of the normal free market model to give an
> optimal allocation of resources in the case of near-zero marginal costs.
Wrong. The purpose and effect of copyright is to prevent to operation of the free market. This is not a judgement of the value of copyright: it is just a fact. The economics if "intellectual property" monopolies have little to do with markets.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
We're morons about the whole magic mushroom thing though. Current government is being a bitch about drugs.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The Dutch.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Always the dutch .... (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Always the dutch .... (Score:5, Informative)
Oh yeah, that's right. And the Dutch also gave us option contracts, as they were necessary to facilitate tulip mania. So, in a sense, the Dutch invented derivatives.* So this global financial crisis is really your fault. Of course.
* Unless you consider more traditional insurance contracts derivatives, which some do, and which were used in Italy and probably elsewhere well before tulip mania.
(Yes, this is tongue in cheek.)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Oh yeah, that's right. And the Dutch also gave us option contracts, as they were necessary to facilitate tulip mania. So, in a sense, the Dutch invented derivatives.
Cool. Didn't know that.
So this global financial crisis is really your fault.
Actually, the whole scheme was designed to entrap our neighbouring countries into spending way above their means, so that we could perform hostile takeovers on bankrupt nations. However, this took way longer than anticipated and somewhere along the way we forgot the original purpose of the design. And now we're all in this mess together...
Re:Always the dutch .... (Score:4, Informative)
The reason that you cannot find a reference is because it did not happen.
First off, the Dutch were not a part of any slave trade in Europe and slaves were not generally kept there (in the Netherlands).
A quick search led to page three and four of
http://books.google.com/books?id=jvno7nJsMycC&pg=PA3&dq=Dutch+Golden+Age+%22slave+trade%22#PPA2,M1 [google.com]
Second, the canals were either being dug or already finished (1480 instead of a more slave-possible date like 1650, for example) around the time that the colonization of the Americas was in progress, and it was after that colonization that the colonists started trading in slaves.
Parent
Uncle Sam wants YOU to use P2P!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Uncle Sam wants YOU to use P2P!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Well... discouraging consumption is discouraging consumption.
Piracy can contribute to a perception of plenty. Many people
tend to spend more freely on many things when they percieve
that things are "going well". Push people to "do without"
and they might do just that. They may also become entirely
too good at it in the process.
That's not even getting into the psychological implications
of "doing without". Most people associate this with dire
economic misfortune.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Uncle Sam wants YOU to use P2P!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the first response by american institutions will be:
"It has a positive benefit for the dutch because they are stealing from us. Which clearly proves it has a negative benefit for us".
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
And thus grows the axis of evil ;).
Re:Uncle Sam wants YOU to use P2P!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Filesharing (Score:5, Interesting)
This is definitely the case for me. I'll download an mp3 or two, and if I like them, I'll go out and buy their album (normally directly from the band if Im able to), and go to their shows if they play locally, buy their merchandise, etc.
I've discovered a lot of great music from filesharing, that I wouldn't have been exposed to otherwise, and went on to buy their stuff.
Re:Filesharing (Score:5, Funny)
Information wants to be $17.99
Parent
Re:Filesharing (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
I knew it! (Score:5, Funny)
This is the final proof that pirates are destroying the economy!
Pirates are like terrorists!
And they pervert children to pirate more!
Pirates steal music and musicians everywhere are suiciding because they're so poor.
Did you already forget the article? Or do I have to blabber about children and wars for a while until I totally misdirect your atten... Until we really concentrate on the pirate comunist music thieves.
Two incomprehensible links. (Score:3, Funny)
Google translation (Score:5, Informative)
The economic effects of file sharing on the Dutch welfare in the short and long term net positive. Consumers will benefit as a result of file sharing access to a wide range of cultural products. On the other hand, a fall in turnover from the sale of sound recordings, DVDs and games as a result is plausible.
This is reflected in joint research by TNO, SEO Economic Research and the Institute for Information Law (IViR) to the economic and cultural consequences of file sharing for music, movies and games on behalf of the Ministries of Education, Ministry of Economic Affairs and Justice. The analysis was conducted on the basis of a study of statistics and scientific literature, interviews with fervent downloaders, a representative survey of the population and a number of informational workshops in the sector.
Estimates of the volume of the global download unauthorized movement vary widely. The world is in any case, many billions of files per year, a substantial part of international Internet traffic. Some 4.7 million Dutch Internet users aged 15 and older in the last 12 months unpaid ever downloaded. Citizens see the download and share music, movies and games as a general social acceptance, but know little of the technology and regulations that it faces. Regulatory unclear
It appears that there are many unclear about the admissibility of download. The download for personal use of copyrighted music and movies may. Downloading games is prohibited. In the case of p2p networks is often not only downloaded, but material, often automatically, again made available to others. This upload files without the permission of the owner, as such not allowed.
The effects of unpaid downloading the purchase of paid content are difficult to determine. Download and buy are not mutually exclusive: an average music downloaders buy more DVDs and more games than people who never download. Even more downloaders go to concerts and buy more merchandise. Net profit prosperity
For the music industry is that downloaded pictures of 1-to-1 can be translated into lost sales. Many consumers who download music would not be in the same amount at current prices to buy and download unpaid not feasible. There are people who download music and get to know where to buy if they like. Although there are also positive effects on the purchasing behavior of downloading, is a negative impact on the turnover of the sectors likely. This is particularly true for the sale of recordings, especially as downloading music has become the most established. In addition, there are differences between artists known artists seem to have more damage, while relatively unknown artists may even benefit when exchanging files increased their awareness
New business models emerging The music and film industries face the challenge to match their offerings with the changing consumer demand. New business models are emerging. The music is made for new movements to tap revenubronnen (concerts, merchandise and sponsorship). There is a place for music recordings, but in future it does not seem possible only on the basis of recorded music to run a profitable business. Within the film industry to grow the markets visit cinema and DVD sales still. DVD rental has fallen. Over time this can change quickly if the Internet is available. Again, there are important new business models. The game industry is growing boisterous, especially the console games and their hardware-software combination content. Here is file sharing on the watch less than eg PC games, where turnover is now stagnating. A related official platform game has so many advantages that it is not inconceivable that this industry is the file-sharing practice the music industry now faces a far greater extent could avert or circumvent.
Study Conclusions (Score:4, Insightful)
So, assuming this study is accurate, there are two conclusions one could come to:
1) Downloading opens people to things they would not know about, causing them to buy more. So, downloading should be allowed as advertisement.
2) The people who download are the most fervent fans. So, downloading should be allowed as a means to not drive them away.
Any others? /I was a a 1) when I stopped downloading, and consuming, all RIAA media.
Re:Study Conclusions (Score:5, Insightful)
3) People have a fixed amount of money to spend on entertainment, by downloading shitty music on the internet they spend that money on other entertainment products/services.
For the Netherlands that's a win because the loser is the music companies and they are mostly overseas corporations and the winners are live performances which provide local employment and so on.
Of course I haven't read the article, not knowing Dutch and not bothering with a translate this page thing, and I know nothing of the music industry - for all I know the Dutch produce 99% of the world's music, though I doubt it.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Communism/socialism without bounds has been failing for some time now; I get the feeling that we can see more and more that capitalism without boundaries is also failing.
Music Industry Doesn't Care (Score:5, Insightful)
I know. I know. I can hope that there are still some politicians who are actually interested in doing the right thing for the people they represent...
What are the odd? (Score:4, Funny)
That American corporate/government policy would have it backwards?
A counter argument (Score:4, Interesting)
This works because the Dutch still generally care about private property rights, and have a sense of the need to reward people for hard work. The "entitlement mentality" has not fully set in because most of Dutch society is still working from the older mindset, but slowly we are seeing this falling away across the Western world. Give it another 100 years, and it's doubtful that this will be true.
The fundamental problem with this issue is that the business model is forced to work based on the good will of the buyers. In every other area of the economy, you don't get access to the goods and services until you pay for them or come to an understanding that allows you to get them for free. Why should this be any different?
One of the things we need to face up to here is that in another century or two, manufacturing technology will be advanced enough to allow people to fabricate complex physical goods from raw materials. What will happen when any good on the store can be replicated at the cost of materials? I suspect that a pirate culture would end up meeting with utter disaster here.
So really, we need to face up to the fact that we need a culture that says "you don't deserve it just because you can't pay for it or don't want to pay for it." That sort of thing would pay dividends in other areas, since such a culture would also tend to promote an attitude that you have no right to tell others what to do on most things.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Barring government involvement to prop up the private corporations, capitalism IS an economic model that depends on the good will of the public. If the public doesn't buy, the corporations fail.
Re:You clearly didn't get the point (Score:5, Insightful)
Give me one good reason why anyone has a natural right to simply copy the recorded work of an artist or musician.
Give me one good reason why anyone has a natural right to prevent someone from making a copy of any recorded work.
You can argue until you are blue in the fact that there is a major difference between copyright infringement and outright theft, but in the end, the entitlement mentality that justifies both on moral grounds is the same in both cases.
The justification isn't the same unless you've already made the assumption that copyright is a legitimate form of property. The moral argument supporting private property rights is a product of scarcity, which doesn't apply to copyrights. Even the pro-copyright crowd doesn't really treat copyrights as though they were property; differences include time limits, statutory damages, higher penalties than are imposed for outright theft, etc.
If the law simply set the same standards for damages for copyright infringement as for theft it would resolve the issue instantly, as there are no damages for copyright infringement -- not unless you consider competition itself to be a tort demanding recompense (the "lost sale" argument). It is copyright itself, not infringement, which demands justification.
Parent
When Napster(I) was in its height (Score:4, Interesting)
I've posted this before but when Napster was in its height, I bought more CDs in the year I used Napster than in the 13 previous years I owned CD players. I downloaded a LOT of music (I'd search for the letter A, download, listen to bits of tracks, then go out and purchase new CDs with the tracks I liked, etc.) and discovered a lot of new and old acts I would never have been otherwise exposed to, in genres ranging from rap to country; jazz to pop, and everything in between. I also tracked down tracks I remembered listening to on 8-track when I was a toddler but couldn't remember anything other than most of the tracks had names of foods in them - it turned out the album I was looking for was Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass' Whipped Cream and other Delights -- and the specific track I was trying to find was Taste of Honey. Well, the next day I actually went into work late because I had to run out and find and buy that CD. I felt like I was in heaven - I had tracked[sic] down a childhood favorite! I played that 8-track so much I wore my parents' copy out. It took me a long, long time using Napster to find that song. Then, I'd export the list to a spreadsheet, delete everything and download more to try. The vast majority of tracks I'd play I'd think "crap" but there were many, many downloaded tracks that would prompt me to go out and buy the CD. On the way to work, I would usually listen to top 40 radio, too - and buying what I liked.
There were many, many others and I was buying up to 15 CDs a week at one point. I would literally go to Best Buy, Strawberries (now defunct) or drive down to RI to Luke's Records every single day and I'd buy 3 to 5 CDs. That was every work day, on the way home from work, or if I found something I really "had" to have, shift my schedule and work a later day and buy it on the way to work. Granted, I had a lot more "disposable" income then, but were it not for the RIAA turning against its biggest "fan base"/"consumer base" I'd still be buying at least 3 to 5 CDs a week.
As soon as the RIAA started making noise about filing suits I quit not only using Napster, but I also quit listening to top 40 radio. In fact for quite a few years I listened to only Christian talk radio and the local big classical station (then WCRB 102.5 and 99.5, now it's just on 99.5).
I only recently started purchasing CDs but my purchases are very few and far between, and it is usually based on recommendations of my favorite artists (for example: Dave Gilmour recommended Radiohead for folks who like Pink Floyd, since fans are clamoring for more), or on what I find on Pandora or what friends in bands or who are composers expose me to. :) I also check out Youtube a bit, but the RIAA labels are trying to alienate me even further by demanding that obvious Fair Use projects are being removed at their demand.
The RIAA has lost me as a big-spending customer. I track down USED CDs now, on the rare occasions I do buy.
They need to embrace models such as the original Napster; I am NOT happy with the rip quality of downloads - I used it to sample music at random, and would discover whole new worlds of music that appeal to me in genres you normally couldn't PAY me to listen to (e/g. rap, country) because I could try it for free and then go out and buy the perfect-quality product on CD. I'd always shop around though - I nearly always refused to pay more than $15 per CD.
That's a lot of revenue the RIAA has "lost" - and because I don't expose myself to top 40 radio, I'm not even tempted to buy new material. I have most of the old material I want. RIAA members, are you reading this? That's up to $225 per week I'm not spending on music now, and the temptation truly is not there because I don't expose myself to stations where payola drives the play lists.
Now, I spend my entertainment dollars on DVDs and cable TV.
I might consider iTunes when I upgrade to an iPhone - I hate Windows (it's installed on my desktop ONLY for games) but might put Tiger on my
Re:When Napster(I) was in its height (Score:4, Interesting)
I've posted this before but when Napster was in its height, I bought more CDs in the year I used Napster than in the 13 previous years I owned CD players. [...] As soon as the RIAA started making noise about filing suits I quit not only using Napster, but I also quit listening to [music] radio. [...] The RIAA has lost me as a big-spending customer. I track down USED CDs now, on the rare occasions I do buy.
Same here. I bought half of my CD collection during the year I used Napster. Most of the other half was from the years before. I have bought less than 10 CDs in the years since then (less than 5% of my collection), and almost all of those are later albums by bands I bought in that period or albums by indie artists not sold through the RIAA.
My tastes broadened immensely, and I went on buying frenzies because of being stoked about music because of Napster. Now, I hardly ever listen to the radio anymore, and I just can't get excited about music. I pretty much listen to NPR or podcasts in the car, and when I do listen to modern music (almost always because an NPR fund-raising drive has finally driven me nuts after several days), I just don't ever feel like buying an album. Part of it's the fact that my tastes in music have fossilized with age, but even when I do like a new group, I just don't want to give the RIAA my money. Screw 'em. They killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
Parent
Warning... TNO... (Score:3, Informative)
While TNO has been in the far past a research *company* with a respected name, nowadays they are more and more on the hand of whoever it is that pays them to do a study.
When I saw this headline in Dutch papers, it clearly was that "more and more people are downloading without paying". Maybe somewhere in the appendix, it read that they would buy songs when downloading.
TNO was the same agency that approved our voting computers multiple times [wijvertrou...ersniet.nl] in a row - the same ones that are forbidden right now.
TNO also researched the chip used for the public transport system in The Netherlands, and approved its security multiple times. [heise-online.co.uk]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
We -know- that file sharing is bad for big record labels...
No, we don't.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Unfortunately... (Score:4, Insightful)
What you say is true.
Those rights were created so that society would benefit, not so the individuals would benefit.
The point of those rights was to encourage the creation of new works.
The rights have been expanded to the point that they now frequently prevent the creation of new works.
I think we should respect those rights as far as they promote new works and not any further.
I am particularly against paying money to encourage artists who are dead to make new works.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Because more and more people encounter content that isn't advertised or played in the mass media. When there wasn't no Internet people had rely on the radio/tv/newspapers for bringing them the newest cultural content but now people can find suitable content for them self.
Which exactly why the media cartels are investing so much money and energy to fight it: They're becoming irrelevant.
It scares and angers them.
They had built themselves a vast and complicated system for controlling the creation and distribution of culture, and now the people are taking that power back!