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Half the Charges Against Pirate Bay Dropped
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Feb 17, 2009 09:40 AM
from the duh-it's-not-a-pirate-submarine dept.
from the duh-it's-not-a-pirate-submarine dept.
eldavojohn writes "Half the charges have been dropped in the second day of the trial against the Pirate Bay. The charges dropped are those relating to 'assisting copyright infringement,' so the remaining charges are simply 'assisting making available.' No information on how this affects the size of the lawsuit or a settlement."
Related Stories
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Your Rights Online: Pirate Bay P2P Trial Begins In Sweden 723 comments
Many readers are writing to tell us that The Pirate Bay trial is now in full swing in Sweden. Looking at a possible two years in prison and $150,000 in fines (plus another $14.3 million if the record companies get their way), the battle of infringement is sure to be one of the most watched p2p trials. "The International Federation of Phonographic Industry (IFPI) which is representing the case of music and film producers, made a statement about the case on Friday. Stating, For people who make a living out of creativity or in a creative business, there is scarcely anything more important than to have your rights protected by the law. Copyright exists to ensure that everyone in the creative world from the artist to the record label, from the independent film producer to the TV program maker - can choose how their creations are distributed and get fairly rewarded for their work. The operators of The Pirate Bay have violated those rights and, as the evidence in Court will show, they did so to make substantial revenues for themselves. That kind of abuse of the rights of others cannot be allowed to continue, and that is why these criminal proceedings are so important for the health of the creative community."
[+]
Pirate Bay Day 3 — Defense Requests Dismissal 685 comments
Hodejo1 writes "Yesterday was a big day for the Pirate Bay when half of the charges against them were dropped leaving only the lesser charges of assisting making copyrighted material available in place. TorrentFreak is following the English twitter feed of the trial in the wee hours of the night, documenting more missteps by the prosecution. 'The Pirate Bay trial is moving forward rapidly and again the day in court has ended early. On the third day the prosecution presented the amended charges. The defendants all called for acquittal while Carl Lundström's lawyer scored points with the already legendary "King Kong" defense.'"
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Making Available (Score:5, Insightful)
Arguably, I make copyright infingement available by providing my daughter with a computer that can access the Internet.
If the argument is that putting a site up that points at known torrents is a crime, doesn't every media outlet in the world carrying this story run the risk of some culpability by promoting it?
M
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Insightful)
The secret is journalism.
If the Pirate Bay wrote a quick op-ed piece about every torrent they linked to, then they would be journalists and thus, protected. Next thing you know, they will be named thepiratebaytimes.org.
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Funny)
So it would go like this:
"This just in, user anonymous coward just posted a torrent [ ref: http://www.thepiratebaytimes.org/AdobeCS4-Windows/.torrent [thepiratebaytimes.org] ] of Adobe Creative Suite 4. They were so bold they included a serial generator and an activation crack.
Now, while we at thepiratebaytimes.org do not condone nor encourage piracy, in the interest of investigative journalism we have downloaded the torrent and wish to report that not only are the crack and serial generator fully functional, they do not install any malware on your system.
It is the opinion of the editors at this media outlet that anonymous coward ought to be ashamed for himself by engaging in such willful promotion of copyright infringement. Shame on them, again, for posting the torrent at [ ref: http://www.thepiratebaytimes.org/AdobeCS4-Windows/.torrent [thepiratebaytimes.org] ]. If you doubt our integrity and honesty we heartily encourage you to view the source [read: download the evidence] and test it for yourself.
As always, we thank you for reading our news site and will be bringing you the latest news on alleged copyright infringement shortly."
disclaimer for stupid sue-happy ambulance chasers: the links above are totally made up. If by freak chance they happen to link to infringing material, it is by sheer coincidence or the will of the LORD. I made the URL up based on the fake(?) domain referenced in the parent post.
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Funny)
If the Pirate Bay wrote a quick op-ed piece about every torrent they linked to, then they would be journalists and thus, protected.
But who's going to have the time to write reviews of so many feature films and their respective encode jobs?
If only they could harness some sort of free labor pool...
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Insightful)
So I figured I'd just post to point out what the above posts were trying to say is that..
(oh screw it you can't be helped)
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Funny)
Surely you jest. Bittorrent has a huge number of legit uses - there may be a few pirates about giving it a bad name, but I for one use TPB exclusively for HD documentaries.
Yours truly,
aXXo
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Funny)
I for one use TPB exclusively for HD documentaries. Yours truly, aXXo
I find your documentaries on modern popular culture intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, I was a little surprised to see the BBC story on the case linking directly to TPB. By the argument being used by the prosecutors and some interpretations of the DMCA, that's arguably facilitating copyright infringement too ...
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Insightful)
they could argue it, but do you really think that an organisation the size of the BBC doesn't have some pretty rabid lawyers of its own?
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Interesting)
Strange. At the end of the article, the BBC actually presented information that made it seem as if they actually understood what The Pirate Bay does. Either the author of the article asked his IT guys to explain it to him or he knows what it does because he uses it to download copyrighted material. Either scenario is amusing I suppose.
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Insightful)
Strange. At the end of the article, the BBC actually presented information that made it seem as if they actually understood what The Pirate Bay does. Either the author of the article asked his IT guys to explain it to him or he knows what it does because he uses it to download copyrighted material. Either scenario is amusing I suppose.
Quite the dichotomy you've presented. But is it outside the realm of possibility that the reporter actually already knew how bit torrent worked or otherwise decided to look it up in order to compose an informed article?
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Funny)
Shit, I'll have you know the author of the article sometimes goes by the name "AXX0".
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Funny)
Here's an excerpt from the BBC article for the benefit of the cynics among us who know the media never gets technical matters right:
BitTorrent is a legal application used by many file-shares to swap content because of the fast and efficient manner it distributes files.
No copyright content is hosted on The Pirate Bay's web servers; instead the site hosts "torrent" links to TV, film and music files held on its users computers.
There may be hope for the world yet :-)
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Funny)
Except no one reads the articles.
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:4, Interesting)
The guy just spoke about "IP numbers", "File distribution", etc without understanding the nature of the torrent distributed protocol. It's just incredible that the companies that are bringing TPB to court, with all their money and power couldn't find a more technical prepared lawyer (if there is such a thing)
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Informative)
It's a prosecutor.
The record labels do not choose their prosecutors, the state does. Keep in mind, attorneys tend to be type A personalities that seek challenges and glory in inordinate amounts.
I am sure there was some jockeying for the person who will handle this case, someone won, and he is doing it because he knew how to handle the politics moreso than because of his technology background.
It was mentioned yesterday that the prosecutor claimed to be a computer crimes expert, but that he could not get a powerpoint presentation to operate on his laptop.
M
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Funny)
It was mentioned yesterday that the prosecutor claimed to be a computer crimes expert, but that he could not get a powerpoint presentation to operate on his laptop.
That's because using a Powerpoint presentation on someone isn't a computer crime, it's a common assault.
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Informative)
....It's just incredible that the companies that are bringing TPB to court, with all their money and power couldn't find a more technical prepared lawyer (if there is such a thing)
Of course there are technically prepared lawyers! Ye gods man! See my sig
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, I believe that if you consult with a lawyer for information or advice, about the courts or the law, it is a legal service. This is just and right. If you consult with a doctor for information about medicine, diseases, or other such, it is medical services.
lawyers are meant to know the law, not be ambidextrous with writing HTML. In respect of a technical lawyer Beckerman's site is a great reference to legal issues regarding the RIAA and lawyers who know their stuff in court.
In terms of a car analogy: You want a car driver that can not only not be confused by a mechanic, but can hold discourse with a mechanic at a level far beyond your own capabilities. It does not matter if the driver can rebuild an engine or not. His job is not building engines, but driving cars.
So, in defense of RB's website, it's not as good as it could be but it still performs the intended purpose, and in doing so exposes you and I and everyone to great legal information. Most of us call this a legal service.
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, it's kind of funny. At this point they are trying to make a moral case for this: Giving people the tools to infringe copyright is wrong.
But in countries like the USA their are companies that sell guns (locally and abroad, even sold them to the evil taliban). People will stand up and shout "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Well I say selling guns is more morally objectionable than providing a tool to allow copyright infringement. Torrents don't infringe, people infringe! Err, something like that.
Parent
Re:Making Available (Score:5, Insightful)
Why has it escaped everyone's notice that a computer quite trivially meets the definition of "Circumvention Device" under the DMCA? Of course, so does a brain. I kind of like the idea of suing everybody with a brain.
Oh, wait. The DMCA doesn't apply outside the USA. Never mind.
Parent
The alliance with the ninjas pays off! (Score:5, Funny)
Only matter of time? (Score:5, Interesting)
But From TFA: "What has been shown in court today is that the prosecutor cannot prove that the
So, it is only matter of time they are back later with stronger evidences?
Re:Only matter of time? (Score:5, Informative)
At this stage of the process the prosecutor has to present the evidence he has gathered to the judge; the defence gets time to present rebuttal evidence. When all evidence is presented, it is time for legal interpretation (pleading). It is planned that the judges have all the information they need in three weeks, so that only gives prosecution a few days to bring up new evidence.
And because it is a criminal trial, prosecution can not come back with another case based on the same facts... so dropping the charges now has permanent impact.
Parent
Re:Only matter of time? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are they the same facts, though? Suppose I'm trying to convict a burglar, I turn up in court with evidence of his burglaries, and that evidence is ruled inadequate and he is acquitted; I cannot now convict him of those burglaries, double jeopardy and all. But he's a burglar, and afterwards he carries on in that line of work. I can gather evidence on his new burglaries, and make sure it's sound this time around.
Similarly, since TPB are certainly not going to stop linking to torrents, if they are acquitted here due to technical flaws in the prosecution's evidence, then they can't be charged again over those particular torrents - but new ones are published every day, and the prosecution could try again with a different set of specific torrents, and with more complete evidence.
Parent
Re:Only matter of time? (Score:5, Funny)
Or at least better screen shots.
Parent
Re:Only matter of time? (Score:5, Insightful)
Surely the best way would be to download a torrent from The Pirate Bay in front of the Judge, leave it downloading during the trial (no intervention), and then once it was complete, show that you downloaded a copyrighted piece of material.
I suggest they go to "Porn -> Movies" for the in-trial example usage of the website.
To be honest, I would like to see how they can defend against the "assisting making available" argument, apart from the fact that this charge seems so ridiculous. They're not committing copyright infringement. They're not making the copyrighted files available. Nooo, they're just allowing people to make available themselves.
Parent
Re:Only matter of time? (Score:5, Insightful)
Surely the best way would be to download a torrent from The Pirate Bay in front of the Judge, leave it downloading during the trial (no intervention), and then once it was complete, show that you downloaded a copyrighted piece of material.
I suggest they go to "Porn -> Movies" for the in-trial example usage of the website.
To be honest, I would like to see how they can defend against the "assisting making available" argument, apart from the fact that this charge seems so ridiculous. They're not committing copyright infringement. They're not making the copyrighted files available. Nooo, they're just allowing people to make available themselves.
Immediately after which the lawyer defending them would create a torrent of his own of the trial's proceedings and seed it, demonstrating where the content is coming from and where it goes.
Parent
That just made my day.... (Score:5, Insightful)
It somehow just makes me feel better about the world when the "bully" gets a face-full of 'take that' from the underdog. I hope that the rest are dropped or mitigated to a wrist slap size judgment that allows TPB to continue operations as normal.
Hooray? (Score:4, Insightful)
So now instead of the "making available" theory, we get to see the "assisting making available" theory.
I love how these lawyers think. If I gave a random guy in a wheelchair a push up a steep incline, and he had robbed a store sometime in the past, I would be an accessory to a crime.
Seriously, can't we just round up all of the lawyers, executives, and directors and just fucking kill them already?
Re:Hooray? Well, maybe... (Score:5, Informative)
A classic tactic in self-serving prosecutions is to charge a person with rape, pillage, robbery and illegal parking. Then, when the defendant is found guilty of illegal parking, the prosecutor can announce conviction, with most listeners thinking that the defendant was convicted of all the charges.
--dave
Parent
That's not how this system works (Score:5, Informative)
That's not how the Swedish/Scandinavian/German legal system works.
It's a different legal philosophy. The Anglo-American system works essentially by contrasting two alternate realities,
the prosecutor's version of events versus the defendant's version of events, and the trial is a decision between the two.
In this legal system, the prosecution and defendants work towards a sort of common reality. Along the way, arguments and evidence gets dropped until they're left with essentially the minimum of differences. *Then*, at the end, the prosecutor formally demands they be sentenced for whatever they think they can reasonably get.
It's common and completely normal in that way for charges to be changed, dropped or added during the trial. It's what remains at the end that matters, not what they were demanding at the start.
Also, district attorneys in Sweden are not elected officials, and a D.A. career is not viewed as a stepping-stone into a political one. So Swedish prosecutors aren't anywhere near as interested in media attention as American ones are.
Parent
Re:That's not how this system works (Score:5, Insightful)
it sounds like your system has some intelligence built into it. ...pity OURS is borked, so to speak.
Parent
Re:Hooray? Well, maybe... (Score:5, Funny)
Except that "making available" was thrown out in U.S. court. If they're convicted of "assisting making available" in Sweden it'll mean that the U.S. is the more liberal country and I don't think Sweden can live with that. No one in the E.U. would talk to them anymore.
Parent
Assisting making available (Score:5, Funny)
That's not vague or anything.
Re:Assisting making available (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
My favourite part... (Score:5, Funny)
"It's a largely technical issue that changes nothing in terms of our compensation claims and has no bearing whatsoever on the main case against The Pirate Bay. In fact it simplifies the prosecutor's case by allowing him to focus on the main issue, which is the making available of copyrighted works," IFPI's legal counsel said.
Here's to having the case simplified to the point it allows the prosecutor to focus on other cases...
Then libraries are in *big* trouble! (Score:5, Insightful)
Libraries provide all sorts of assistance. Why, they even have a professionals devoted to "assisting making available" -- librarians. I ask them where I can find a (copyrighted) book, and they not only tell me, but they let me borrow that (copyrighted) work!!! After that, I could either be following the law or not. How do they know I don't have a photocopier or scanner set up at home to "steal" the whole thing? What's worse, governments provide all sorts of financial assistance for libraries on the premise it is a "public good" to make these (copyrighted) materials available. They're obviously complicit in any copyright infringement that occurs.
Do the math! Next up: print publishers sue librarians and government for "assisting making available" copyrighted works.
Google, Microsoft and Yahoo too (Score:5, Insightful)
The accual .torrent-files (Score:5, Interesting)
The reason for dropping (Score:5, Interesting)
The reason for dropping the charges can be found between the lines of this article [thelocal.se]. Basically, TPB nicely informed the prosecution that there way no way in hell that they could prove which copyright infringements originated from the trackers provided by TPB (as opposed to, say, mininova or slotorrent).
While I love this outcome (and the fact that it took TPB less than 24 hours to uproot the more serious charges brought against them), I'm not too happy about this approach. They're winning on technicalities, while I would have liked for them to win on principle.
Anyway, I'll keep dreaming.
Re:The reason for dropping (Score:5, Insightful)
While I love this outcome (and the fact that it took TPB less than 24 hours to uproot the more serious charges brought against them), I'm not too happy about this approach. They're winning on technicalities, while I would have liked for them to win on principle.
While that would be grand, I'm sure they're happy to win on whatever legal theory keeps them out of prison.
Parent
What has been gained? (Score:4, Interesting)
It really looks like the prosecution will fail (Score:5, Interesting)
Weird how they are giving up so quickly. I get the feeling that the prosecution doesn't actually want to win this. Could they be going through to motions to satisfy the demands made by MPAA/RIAA/**AA as relayed through the U.S. government to the government of the prosecution to make them just shut up? "Hey! We did what you asked and it failed! What would you like us to do now?"
But even if there were some success in this, won't the result just be the development of technologies that make it even harder to prosecute?
Nailor (Score:5, Informative)
The prosecutor dropped half of the charges because he had misunderstood the behaviour of the BitTorrent. The half of the charges were about making pirated copies.
This however still leaves, as the TFA states, the charges about 'assisting in making available'. This also does not affect the claims of the stakeholders, they are still "valid". Also the maximum possible sentence is still the same.
Swedish prosecutor has been really careful with this case and propably doesn't want to risk the case with false charges. All the tracker files provided by stakeholders as the files downloaded are carefully selected. They even have listed every IP met using those .torrent files and made sure that every one of those has a Swedish IP among them. The prosecutor is also careful in using any previous cases against torrent tracker (for example Finnreactor case in Finland [theregister.co.uk]).
A Finnish lawyer Mikko Välimäki has made a blog post about the case [google.com] (Google translation, original is here [turre.com])
Since they don't like linking either... (Score:5, Funny)
...I can't wait for my lawsuit for linking to assisting making available [thepiratebay.org].
The prosecutor didn't prepare his case (Score:5, Interesting)
The prosecutor in this case (Hakan Roswall) is Sweden's most experienced and knowledgeable prosecutor when it comes to cases involving Intellectual property rights. It looks like he didn't do his homework before entering the court house. He has been working on this case for more than three years and after one day in court he realized that TPB does not copy any files at all.
I think he felt a little embarrassed after this.
Re:Go Pirate Gay!!!1! (Score:5, Funny)
Nope, they only support half the theft.
From this point on, everybody needs to stop their illegal torrents when they reach 50%. Thank you.
Parent
Re:Go Pirate Gay!!!1! (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, your honor, I didn't download all of that software. I specifically avoided downloading the trojan that the packager slipped in.
Case dismissed!
Parent