Digital TV Coupon Program Under Way Again 147
An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from CNet:
"Federal regulators said Thursday they are going into 'search and rescue' mode to help the millions of consumers unprepared for the phased transition to digital television, which culminates with the June 12 transition deadline. The millions of consumers waiting for coupons for digital converter box coupons will finally receive them within the next two and a half weeks, thanks to emergency funding for the coupon program provided in the stimulus package, said Bernadette McGuire-Rivera, an administrator for the National Telecommunications and Information Administration. The NTIA is also ratcheting up its outreach to consumers most likely to be unprepared for the transition... FCC commissioners said their agency is also intensifying its outreach, but they acknowledged that while one third of television stations have already dropped their analog signals, the hardest part is yet to come."
We previously discussed the DTV coupon program when it ran out of money in January. The $650 million from the stimulus packages adds to the $1.3 billion that's already been spent.
Cause it worked so well before (Score:2, Funny)
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That's totally on topic...
Whats the topic?!!!
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That's totally on topic. They're spending money on coupons to make money selling off the freed up frequencies.
I doubt it, although to be fair you need to calculate the cost of the whole exercise compared to the money the government gets back through the sale of the freed up frequency spectrum. Call me pessimistic if you like but it looks like a politician's smoke and mirrors exercise.
People who already bought a converter (Score:3, Interesting)
So what happens with people that ended up paying full price for a converter because the coupons stopped flowing and 1/3 of the transition (which in many places was nearly a full transition) already happened? Can they just get $40 back with the coupon and their original paid-full-price receipt? Even if they got their full price converter at Circuit City?
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If they had no problem buying it with their own money, why should they get a handout?
Then again, I'm a crazy liberal who thinks that the government should give to the poor, not the rich.
Re:People who already bought a converter (Score:5, Insightful)
If they had no problem buying it with their own money, why should they get a handout?
Then again, I'm a crazy liberal who thinks that the government should give to the poor, not the rich.
Well I'm a crazy [insert whatever] who wants to know why the hell we're giving handouts for TV for anybody! Nobody will die without American Idol.
Re:People who already bought a converter (Score:5, Insightful)
Bread and Circuses..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses [wikipedia.org]
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If the actual people involved don't value their lives enough to buy a TV for tornado reports, I certainly don't value their life enough to buy a TV for them. Let them die for all I care.
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but you didn't buy a tv for them, they bought their own tv's. You bought them (a tiny fraction of) a tv converter box.
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Well that just make's his claim that much more dubious. Assuming the people in question were already able to buy a TV, and most of a converter box, I don't see why they can't just bite the bullet and pay for the remaining tiny fraction of the conveter box.
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>Well that just make's his claim that much more dubious. Assuming the people in question were already able to buy a TV, and most of a converter box, I don't see why they can't just bite the bullet and pay for the remaining tiny fraction of the conveter box.
Because after paying for a 60 inch plasma, most of the cost of the converter box, and the months electric; they're broke!
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But people will die without tornado information, among other things. Yes, radio is an option. When dealing with people, however, sometimes a graphical representation is just much more useful.
The people who use a TV will likely try to get a converter box immediately when they notice notice they aren't getting any channels regardless of the rebate program. The people who don't care enough to get converter box likely don't need a visual representation, would have never seen the broadcast on TV anyway...and nothing really has changed. The parent poster said:
If the actual people involved don't value their lives enough to buy a TV for tornado reports, I certainly don't value their life enough to buy a TV for them. Let them die for all I care.
Like I said above, nothing has changed. You think you made an intelligent retort
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pfft, most who die during a tornado will have died anyway, with or without a converter box, with or without a helpful pamphlet on tornado safety, and with or without the care and concern of a bleeding heart hand-wringer. That converter box isn't going to hold your walls and roof up.
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But people will die without tornado information, among other things. Yes, radio is an option. When dealing with people, however, sometimes a graphical representation is just much more useful.
There are not many states were tornado's occur. From what I have seen not being an American there are tornado warning systems set up in all towns and cities where there is a possibility of a tornado.
What about the hearing impaired? Well you could argue that TV can help but lets be honest here how many people, hearing impaired or not remained glued to their TV in the off chance they may be warned of a pending disaster, most watch TV for entertainment. As for graphical representations most people don't know
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But TV is the opiate for the masses! How can you govern an intelligent, reasoning populace? You can't give them drugs, so you give them free coupons for TV!
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To reclaim the spectrum (the fcc auctioned off access to the reclaimed spectrum for more than the converter box program spent).
Broadcast stations got much of that spectrum for a song, but it isn't particularly ridiculous that some of the funds were spent on mitigating the impact of the switch.
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To reclaim the spectrum (the FCC auctioned off access to the reclaimed spectrum for more than the converter box program spent).
This is the part I don't understand: if the FCC made all this money off the auction, why did the coupon program run out of money until an "emergency" infusion of cash from stimulus funds? Shouldn't the the accepted auction prices been high enough to at least cover the cost of freeing up the spectrum being auctioned? This smells fishy...
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They're doing it because they want the ability to revoke playback of recordings. It's necessary for the proper functioning of the Ministry of Truth.
Did you see the news the other night? Army kicking in peoples doors and stuff... that can't be real. That newscaster looked a bit freaked out when it was aired. Scared even. You didn't see it? Check it out,
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Whoosh!
Read 1984 sometime.
Unlike most govt spending it's NOT a handout (Score:3, Insightful)
Well I'm a crazy [insert whatever] who wants to know why the hell we're giving handouts for TV for anybody! Nobody will die without American Idol.
It's not a handout. It's a (partial) reimbursement from the government to the previous users of the bandwidth for seizing the bandwidth and selling it for billions, which went into the treasury.
The analog television system worked just fine for what it did. A LOT of people bought equipment in the good faith expectation that it would continue to be usable for the
Re:People who already bought a converter (Score:5, Insightful)
The issue isn't about whether someone can get the money to pay for it. The issue is that the government is making a lot of money selling the spectrum, and part of it was to compensate people for the costs imposed on them.
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The issue isn't about whether someone can get the money to pay for it. The issue is that the government is making a lot of money selling the spectrum, and part of it was to compensate people for the costs imposed on them.
Who will immediately re-compensate the wireless providers who purchased that spectrum by paying higher prices. It's not like we're getting anything for free, you know.
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We're talkiing about $2 Billion so far ($1.3 Billion for the first program, $650 Million now) - exactly how much did we get from the sale of the spectrum and didn't we already spend it elsewhere? I can't believe someone in Washington left $650 Million dollars lying on the table after they auctioned off the specturm...
That's not the Washington I knew!
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Of course, if you give everybody a $40 coupon (or whatever) they end up just paying $50 more in taxes or their grandkids get the equivalent in debt. It isn't like "the government" has no relationship to the people who live and breathe within the country. As an added bonus you get to pay a premium on the cost of the converter which is able to be sold for a higher cost since consumers will be willing to pay more on top of their subsidies.
Sure, the money might "come from" the spectrum sales, but that is just
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LIBERTARIANS: LISTEN CAREFULLY (Score:5, Insightful)
LIBERTARIANS:
LISTEN CAREFULLY: The government made a NET GAIN on this transition.
They sold the spectrum reclaimed from analogue broadcasts for much more than this coupon program costs. It's not donating taxpayer money for TVs, it's compensating people for re-selling THEIR assets (radio spectrum) to private companies, something the government should be doing more often IMHO. And before anyone jumps up and down about how "people should be allowed to broadcast on any channel they choose", realise that no radio communication would work if that were the case - everyone would broadcast over everyone else, no-one would receive the signal they want, and it would be anarchy. There needs to be some authorisation for maintaining radio signals, and as bad as they are, the government are the only ones capable and willing (private enterprises don't have authority over one another, and no market force compels them to maintain the spectrum in the interests of the people).
Libertarians with mod points, moderate this post to oblivion if you want.
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It's probably the companies who sell and make the boxes who are getting the biggest handouts. Since it's likely that the coupon value represents the lowest selling price. Even if it were possible to make a profit with a cheaper price.
got mine (Score:1)
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Lots of people had to hurry up and buy right before Feb 17. If the coupons had been flowing as they should have been, they would have gotten their coupons and saved $40 on the converter. They still need to get their share of the money paid for the TV spectrum some other way.
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So then the government should just give them a $40 or $80 check.
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I applied for the coupons around Xmas, got then early Jan, used them today.
Our CC closes Mar 8.
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The coupons expire after 90 days (I confirmed that on the dtv.gov page).. did you use expired coupons? and they worked?
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The coupons expire after 90 days (I confirmed that on the dtv.gov page).. did you use expired coupons? and they worked?
He said he got them in "Early Jan". Even if he got them on January 1 (Assuming that he didn't mean January of a year other than 2009)it hasn't been 90 days.
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Sorry, brain fart time. I was mentally 'wrapping' around a year. I got mine early *last* year, so was thinking that was when he got them.
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I don't need the converter boxes (have cable), but got them in case of future need.
Is it spent yet? (Score:3, Interesting)
That $1.3 billion is the amount that has been allocated to be spent. Last I read, less than half of that had actually been spent and the rest was tied up in coupons that had been requested but had neither been used, nor expired yet.
Tv went blank. (Score:4, Insightful)
And nothing of value was lost.
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What about the gone-on-DVD series you rip off BitTorrent?
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"off bit-torrent" thats a good way to propagate false assumptions that the only thing its used for is copyright infringement.
No sympathy (Score:2)
"Millions" of unprepared consumers? Seriously, the commercials warning about the transition have been playing several times an hour every day for the past 6 months or more (I was even getting them on Satellite TV, which is immune to the change) It's literally been impossible to avoi
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What's funny... I really haven't watched much OTA television since my kids were born. Maybe about two hours a week just capturing snippets of the news--but mostly Sesame Street. So, you could make a good argument that I DO live in a cave and I knew about this transition years ago when it was first proposed. I even vowed not to purchase a new television until after the transition occurred. I've since changed my mind on that, I'm keeping the TV and getting the converter. How could anyone be caught off-guard
I don't get it! (Score:3, Funny)
Send taxpayer money to Chinese manufacturers of converter boxes; to accommodate the bandwidth auctions to major US telecom companies: who intend to soak customers to get their money back?
Am I missing something???
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You got it, exactly.
hurry it up, dude (Score:5, Interesting)
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You fucked up; you should have waited until a good box was available and then applied (they are a technology product, being first is not a good thing!).
(I applied ~June and got my coupons in September, at which point stores were chock full...)
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Applied for my coupon the very first day they were available. Didn't get it until almost exactly a year ago.
"Sorry, we have no converters in stock yet"
Tried again. And again. And then again. Apparently, they'd arrive during the day, and be cleared out before I got off work every fucking time.
"No, sorry, you can't reserve one, sir."
Day before they expired in June 2008, I'm going place to place, trying to get one. Still none to be had.
So now, I've been waiting nine months for them to let me reapply. And the numbnuts in Congress waited to the last minute before the conversion to go, "Oh, yeah, those of you screwed by slow processing and then a lack of availability, maybe you should get a second chance, because our asinine expiration date fucked you out of 'em."
I keep seeing stories about this "shortage" and I think the problem is more with how the converters were distributed than a real shortage. The Circuit City where I live priced them at 70% off last weekend and they still had a mountain of them piled up on the floor. I would estimate there were 500+ stacked on the floor by the entrance, and still more on the shelves. I've been to several other cities in the US in the last couple of weeks and have seen them on store shelves also.
Cable outage (Score:4, Informative)
About 3 weeks ago, power was lost due to a storm. On the 2nd day of no power, I ran an extension cable from the TV to the my big UPS that still had energy remaining because I shut down the computers soon after the power went out (knowing it would be a while before it came back on). Nothing was coming through via Comcast. That could be because their lines were damaged in the storm, or their equipment was without power. I could get TV over the air from 2 stations, one in analog (which isn't anymore), and one in digital (because I could power my digital tuner from the UPS). People who have cable and no fallback means to receive TV in the event of a storm or accident that takes out the cable wiring or equipment is ... unprepared.
Yes (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to say I am surprised at the result. Even 60 miles from the transmitters with a modest antenna that gave me a very snowy signal on analog, I have twice as many channels and they are razor sharp. There have been a few transient artifacts but not the hopeless pile of random polygons I feared because of my marginal signal strength. I was very afraid the damn thing wouldn't work at all out here and I'd be stuck for the difference between the true cost and the coupon.
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It would work as well as analog TV - and probably better, with the error correction.
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Does the word "radio" ring a bell?
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Probably not. To me it seems like the "coupon-defending" crowd is leaving heavily on the notion of "it's impossible to get enough warning information from a radio". It's been explained time and again that the radio has sufficed for this purpose in the past, and it will suffice in the future.
I know that when the power goes out here, I don't dick around with the frickin' TV trying to get it power. I pop a 9-volt into my radio and tune it to the usual AM news stations for info. Some people just refuse to c
Expired coupon holders? (Score:2)
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TFA syas that they're planning on making it possible to reapply. The DTV2009 site doesn't seem to have it as an option yet, though.
Wait, What? (Score:1)
insidious focus (Score:1)
Stimulus package (Score:5, Insightful)
So, can someone explain what the DTV coupon program's funding has to do with stimulating the economy?
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The same way it has anything to do with studying the odor of pig excrement.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1509505/president_obama_addresses_nation_pork_pg6.html?cat=9 [associatedcontent.com]
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Ever been downwind of a pig factory farm?
No?
Then you have no idea what nauseating stench really means.
Yeah, spend some money to improve quality of life for those who live near one of these places.
(and to the Libertarian wankers who are even now typing that those offended by odors should move: Please FOAD, now!)
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I don't agree with Keynes but the spending - even pork like this - is based on Keynes' theories.
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Keynesian theory suggests that private sector decisions can be non-optimal. I don't see how a move out of a government-controlled spectrum by a government-sponsored program fits into that.
I see a lot of crap in this "stimulus package" that is just an excuse to spend money the government thinks needs to be spent for any variety of reasons.
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It doesn't. It was just put in the stimulus bill for the convenience of it. The DTV coupons have already been paid off via the analog spectrum sale; the issue was that not enough money from the sale had been allocated to the coupon program. So they put an item in the stimulus bill to have more money allocated to it (which at this point, all remaining money had been put in the general fund).
The fact that this is in the stimulus bill is just a matter of convenience, it's not a stimulus item and it's not inten
Penny-ante entrepreneurs are the reason why (Score:1)
If there hadn't been so many trailer-trash penny-ante entrepreneurs requesting the coupons and then buying converters with no intention of using them but rather re-selling them on eBay and the like, there would have been plenty of funding to get the converters into the hands of the people who arguably need them. The trailer-trash entrepreneurs were quite probably the early adopters in the program, and the government had no way to guarantee that the converters being purchased with coupons were actually bein
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Based upon your understanding of what socialism is, is this YOU [skitch.com] in the documentary "Right America"?
Really, doughy, illiterate and a head full of piercings is no way to go through life, boy!
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I think you understand ad hominem quite a bit better than you understand socialism. Thanks for the deep insight.
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As opposed to YOUR absurd comparison of "socialism" and the current administration?
Humanoid, please!
Compared to any of the socialist countries in Europe, the Obama administration is a right wing ultra capitalist regime.
Frankly, if you think Obama administration is "socialist", I must insist that you cease using the Internet this instant, before you get your stupid all over everything.
Good day, sir!
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You're raucously funny... my original comment contained no mention at all of either "Obama", "administration", or even "government", much less a comparison of any of those to socialism. You've just managed to redefine the acronym TMI: Too Much Inference.
I don't know which dogmatic partisan high-horse you're riding, but would you kindly go ride it somewhere else and get it the hell out of my flower garden? Thanks much.
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Nope. I was thinking pretty generally and rhetorically when I wrote that, even though (now in a less sleep-deprived state) I see that I did use the word government at one earlier point. At least I didn't use it in the same breath with socialism, like I said I didn't.
(Ideally, socialism and government wouldn't have anything to do with each other, because people would AGREE to the socialist economy without force of government. The libertarians have that much right: using force of government is never ideal.
Socialist foxes, capitalist henhouse. (Score:2)
Get it right.
Socialists don't raise hens but will gladly share in yours.
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You know, it's usually fearful people who dispense that kind of regurgitated FUD and spin. I doubt you're any sort of mastermind with an evil plan, rather just some poor Pavlovian brainwashed minion saying the only thing he knows to say whenever his knee is whacked in a certain way. Of what exactly are you afraid, I wonder?
The scenario you insinuate isn't really socialism at all, but a perversion of it. It would be a nobler thing to actually study what you've been taught to fear, rather than repeating FU
Bread and circus (Score:2, Insightful)
I am SO glad that our leaders are dealing with the important issues. I mean, it's not like we have a shitty economy or horrible foreign relations to worry about lately.
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If people quit zoning out on The Biggest Loser and Dancing With The Stars, they may actually start talking to one another. And then, they might start READING too. Before you know it, they may start taking a vested interest in where their money goes and why. That certainly can't be tolerated ... quick, give more funding to fix the Boob Tube!
this doesn't make any sense... (Score:2)
This amount of money could have been used to buy everyone a new HDTV who watched tv over the air... Most people have cable, or satellite.
This is absolutely absurd to spend this kind of money on something that people should be figuring out on their own.
stations not putting out enough power (Score:2)
Can they put some of that money into ensuring that the stations broadcast with a usable amount of power? Most of the stations seem to put out enough power for decent reception only in their immediate vicinity - places that are far enough away that the analog signal is only slightly fuzzy (but still entirely watchable) get nothing thanks to the all-or-nothing nature of digital.
[TMB]
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Digital signals are on different frequencies (for the moment) than their analog counterparts, and usually at lower power.
My PBS affiliate is analog and physical channel 13. The digital channel is physically broadcast on channel 61, and at 10% power.
It never works.
After February 17^W^WJune 12, the digital channel will be moving back to physical 13 (which propagates better, and antennas like better) and up to full power.
So, as soon as the transition finally happens, it will work fine. Which is why I was pisse
The coupon program is a joke (Score:2)
There is no oversight whatsoever to the whole process. They claim my coupon was mailed on 12/29/08; it never made it to my mailbox. After a few weeks I contacted the program's customer support, and I am basically SOL. There is no way they will reissue coupons if they get lost in the mail, nor are you allowed to reapply. There is no way to appeal this decision. There are internet forums full of people saying that their coupons supposedly mailed between november and december never arrived, and got the same re
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Uhh, no. I have extended basic cable, and have all analog. They are going to move it to digital at some point (unrelated to the OTA digital, but IMHO they're using the confusion as a reason for switching). Actually, I have two Tivos that can use cable cards, so I guess technically I have a "digital converter box", but it's not being used for that.
(We can get 'free' boxes that will convert the equivalent of extended basic channels -- but that doesn't help S3 Tivos.)
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Uhh, no. I have extended basic cable, and have all analog. They are going to move it to digital at some point (unrelated to the OTA digital, but IMHO they're using the confusion as a reason for switching). Actually, I have two Tivos that can use cable cards, so I guess technically I have a "digital converter box", but it's not being used for that.
(We can get 'free' boxes that will convert the equivalent of extended basic channels -- but that doesn't help S3 Tivos.)
If you have cable (analogue or digital) you don't have to worry about a converter box since your TV acts as a monitor. If you have a HDTV with a digital or HD tuner you don't have to worry about a converter box. The same is true if you have a HDD DVD/BD recorder with a digial or HD tuner and again your TV acts as a monitor. The only time you do need a converter box is when your TV has a analogue tuner connected to a TV antenna. One thing many people don't realise is they may have to change their TV antenna
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Assuming absolutely 0% overhead, you'd be right.
Re:Doing the math (Score:4, Informative)
You're missing something with that logic. While most households do have cable/satellite, those can become useless in bad weather (lines breaking, dish swinging in the wind), not to mention random cable outages caused by careless people with backhoes, drivers running into poles, etc. Most sensible people, when asked "Do you want two coupons so that your two cable-equipped sets can continue to receive OTA TV if your cable goes out?" will say "Yes." without giving it a second thought. I'm surprised that the number of people requesting these is not closer to 100% of all TV households.
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Seriously? If your sat/cable TV goes out, you're so desperate for TV that you switch to OTA?
Wow.
Re:Doing the math (Score:4, Informative)
In a severe thunderstorm under a tornado watch? You bet your you-know-what I switch to OTA. A few extra seconds notice of approaching tornadoes can save your life.
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If you are in a situation where seconds matter, why not act preemptively?
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If there's a tornado watch, what the hell are you doing sitting around staring at the TV?
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I live in a hurricane prone area. Often hurricanes will take out power/cable/whatever and TV or radio are vital sources for information during extended shortages of resources (power/water/gas/etc).
When it's in August 100+F weather with 90% humidity and you're running a fan and a TV set on a generator you definitely want to know which gas stations are open, where you can find food, and any estimate you can on when the power will be back. You would be amazed by the chaos that a week or two without electricity
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Err... the post above you was missing something, rather. Clicked the wrong reply button. My bad.
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Unless you're hitting force one winds, then your dish shouldn't be swinging in the wind. If it is, it wasn't installed right.
Re:Doing the math (Score:5, Insightful)
So yes, even though I do not technically "need" a DTV converter box, I am seriously considering buying one for the news coverage during severe weather.
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I live in the Midwest, on a farm, on a hill. I find the tornado warnings on the radio quite adequate.
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Yes, but I am the paranoid type that has to know EXACTLY where the hook echo is that they are talking about not that by worrying about it will I change anything but still.
And you want to force me to subsidize your neurosis. How cute.
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Do you also have satellite internet? If not, I've found the "Graphical Forecasts" and CONUS products at weather.org to be *really* good.
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Yeah, before television, I think every time a storm came, people just ran outside got zapped by lightning and flew around in the air by the tornados until they landed in Oz.
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I live in the midwest, where in the spring and summer I can feel by the humidity, air pressure and temperature if a tornado is on the way. I certainly don't need the idiots at the local weather station telling me where a funnel cloud might be. And in the event that my senses aren't enough, the mechanical voice of the national weather service over a radio is the only other thing I need.
Weather warnings on tv are annoying time vampires that interrupt the show I'm trying to watch.
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Your dish is not aimed right if you get a marginal signal in bad weather (unless it's covered in snow.) If you are in the US Midwest you are in the prime signal spot for the systems (Dish and DirecTV.) Call for service (Lie to them and say there is no signal at all. The tech will understand.)
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Any such stories have been overshadowed by mass outages of jobs, mass outages of lending by banks, mass outages of investment in stocks, and mass outages of sanity in Congress.