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DHS To Use Body Odor As a Lie Detector
Posted by
samzenpus
on Thu Mar 12, 2009 06:57 AM
from the we-can-smell-the-truth dept.
from the we-can-smell-the-truth dept.
The US Department of Homeland Security is studying lies, damned lies, and smells. They hope to prove that human body odor could be used to tell when people are lying. The department says they are already "conducting experiments in deceptive behavior and collecting human odor samples" and that the research it hopes to fund "will consist primarily of the analysis and study of the human odor samples collected to determine if a deception indicator can be found."
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Something stinks around here (Score:2)
First they hire a Microsoft dude, then they start smelling people.
Re:Something stinks around here (Score:5, Funny)
They could be lining this up as the replacement for UAC!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it sad that even after all these years and having actually been forced to upgrade to Vista, I still think of this UAC [wikia.com] when people talk about it?
Re:Something stinks around here (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Fix the thumbnail, sam.. (Score:3, Informative)
It breaks the main page.
C'mon, it's not that hard to resize it before posting.
Should be cheap! (Score:2)
All they need to collect the samples is already at hand.
Before you say Congress may help, no chance. The rarest resource on the planet is politician sweat.
Re:Should be cheap! (Score:4, Interesting)
>>>All they need to collect the samples is already at hand.
It just dawned on me. Collecting "scent samples" is the same thing the East German government did. For every citizen. Is Homeland Security taking us down that same road?
Parent
Beanz meanz fartz (Score:5, Insightful)
"I fart in your general direction! In fact, I fart uncontrollably in all directions!"
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
If they want odour, let them have it, full throttle. Eat chilli beans with garlic and cream cheese (or whatever supercharges your afterburner) a few hours before boarding a flight. "I fart in your general direction! In fact, I fart uncontrollably in all directions!"
I seriously wonder if you could be denied onto a flight because of having uncontrollable flatulence. Only one way to find out...
Re:Beanz meanz fartz (Score:5, Informative)
You can be denied entry onto a flight for any reason whatsoever - even "the security inspector x-raying your hand luggage didn't get laid last night".
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, but that was a different reason. And pointless too.
They took "smell samples" from prisoners, to track them down with dogs. What they didn't know (or didn't want to know, you'll never be sure) was that dogs don't really track using the scent of the "game", they follow the trail it leaves on the ground until late in the hunt. And by the time the dogs are close enough to pick the target out by scent, you can use visual identification (i.e. see him).
In total, a huge load of bullcrap. In other words, fits n
Re:Should be cheap! (Score:4, Insightful)
Um, no. Every creature on earth has an unique scent. Scent will actually come out of a human being, or other "game" in cone shaped form. This is why search and rescue units will work a patch of land moving in the expected cone shape (based on what the dog picks up) when trailing a victim in a search. I have done search and rescue and that is the logic they use because it works. The first thing they do when a new volunteer comes on is show them how it works. Tracking, what you were referring to, also uses the same concept but, with the individual scent being left by brushing against the ground itself.
In a nutshell, this scares the hell out of me.
Parent
Hello, is that an armpit hoover? (Score:4, Funny)
Hello, is that an armpit hoover? Or are you just pleased to see me?
I always make an effort to shower or bathe before I have a flight, especially if it is long-haul.
Now, I don't particularly care for the idea of a 'lie-sniffer', as it is just more tin-foil-hattery from leeches who can demand government funding to 'fight teh terrorists'. However, if they keep the guy that is a couple of hundred pounds overweight, and hasn't washed for a week, off the plane - I'll be happy.
Best reply (Score:5, Insightful)
"I take the 5th amendment" or "I choose to remain silent"
Don't give the government anything, else they will use it later to entrap you or jail you. The right to free speech also includes the right to be quiet.
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>>>they are not going to let you get on a plane with that answer.
And that's one of the key reasons I don't fly (unless I'm going a long distance). It's too damned inconvenient. I'd rather just drive my own car, which gives me lots of legroom, lots of space for luggage, and my own personal stereo system for music or books-on-ipod listening.
Example: My coworkers flew from OKC to Minneapolis. I drove. They left home at 6 am and arrived at their hotel at 5 pm. I arrived about an hour later, but di
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Give me the freedom/comfort of a car any day.
Be careful, some of our more extremist friends on the left want to take that freedom away from you too. We should tax gasoline until it's $5/gal and force everybody to ride mass transit that may or may not exist, don't you know?
Re:Best reply (Score:4, Interesting)
Going with Google Maps' predictions, he drove for about 12 hours straight, a distance of 785 miles.
Land's End, Cornwall (the most south-westerly point of Great Britain) to Inverness (most northerly city in Scotland) is only 730 miles.
Many people in the UK would fly that distance -- though it would be awkward, both places are very remote. But our alternative -- a train, with lots of legroom, space for luggage, a table, a power point for your laptop, a toilet etc -- doesn't really exist in the USA, outside a few locations.
(A train from Land's End (Penzance) to Inverness takes 14 hours, or 16 hours if you take a sleeper train overnight.)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And that's one of the key reasons I don't fly (unless I'm going a long distance). It's too damned inconvenient. I'd rather just drive my own car, which gives me lots of legroom, lots of space for luggage, and my own personal stereo system for music or books-on-ipod listening.
I'm so glad I"m not the only one who does this - co-workers look at me like I'm crazy when I say I'm driving instead of flying (up to 12-14 hours is my 'reasonable limit').
Between the hassle of "security", the cramped seats designed for people 6 inches shorter than me, the noise, being treated like cattle and the hundred other little things that make flying absolutely detestable... it's worth an extra couple-few hours of my time to enjoy my travel in comfort. I do take a mid- to high-end rental though, in
Re:Best reply (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, okay, but here's the simple fact: DHS pulls aside for additional questioning or searches fewer than 10% of all passengers. If you don't want to be searched or questioned, simply don't give them a reason to do so.
That may be OK individually, but generally (not just with smells and aeroplanes) it's a dangerous route to go down collectively. Only a few are questioned, so everyone tries to conform to what they think the authorities consider normal. So the authorities lower their thresholds and then everyone becomes even more conforming, etc. It leads to everyone 'self-censoring' their behaviour to some degree to please government and security guard's prejudices.....it's far better for people to feel secure against unreasonable harrassment. It's not that your suggestion is necessarily bad - but if you can be bothered with baking soda then you ought to also be bothered opposing it politically.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
>>>But what happens when you're silent but deadly? They're sure to find you out with this new tech.
The Supreme Law of the Land says, "No person shall be... compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself". Any evidence they collect from your scent can not be used in court.
Consumer version, please ... (Score:5, Funny)
After all, it would be nice to be able to say that Office Depot's policy of lying to customers literally STINKS! [slashdot.org]
So how are they going to calibrate this?
Your Stink-o-Lie-Meter
1. Kid with hand in cookie jar
10. Madoff with hand in cookie jar
66. Used car salesman
666: Bush "They Have WMDs" salesman
2. "No, the dress doesn't make you look fat."
0. "It's not the dress."
9. "It's not the dress, and I ENJOY sleeping on the couch!"
4. It's a bug (it's not a "bug" - it didn't crawl in on its' own volition - fess up and admit you made a mistake).
40. It's a feature.
0. "They're real." (It's none of your business, Jack!)
9. "I didn't forget your birthday."
500. "We have a plan to deal with the current financial crisis" - ANY POLITICIAN - we KNOW you're just making this sh*t up as you go along.
499. "Bankruptcy is not an option." - GM head honcho Ron Wagoner
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
99999 - "*I* *did* *not* *have* sexual relations with *that* *woman*!"
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
99999 - "*I* *did* *not* *have* sexual relations with *that* *woman*!"
So you think that Clinton's lie about a blowjob was more than 150 times as bad as Bush's lie about WMDs?
Dear God.
A pack of dogs (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A pack of dogs (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:A pack of dogs (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with lie detection, as quite a number of people have said endlessly over the years, is that the assumption is made that a lie is something that somehow the body has a physiological problem with. Clearly this is swan songs of morality, as amorphous and dynamic as they are, being applied directly to the human nervous system, and somehow people are surprised to discover that there hasn't been a lie detector in the world that's been proven unquestionably to work at all.
Parent
Same as always (Score:5, Insightful)
Using odor instead of breathing heart beat and so on will not bring anymore science is this than pissing into a violin and expecting a concerto.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Lie detectors of all types detect if you think you are lying and are stressed by this more than you were in the "control" part of the test ....
So if a lie is detected you could be
a) lying
b) think you are lying, but mistaken
c) more stressed for other reasons
and if a lie is not detected you could be
a) telling the truth
b) think you are telling the truth, but mistaken
c) as stressed for other reasons as in the control
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It's also worth noting that the lie detector has been involved in securing many FALSE confessions. DNA evidence later exhonerates the poor soul, but the lie detector was an important part of convincing him to sign the confession.
It's not just that the like detector is unscientific, it's that it is used to railroad people into confessing, rather than finding the truth.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The DHS doesn't care. They just want a pseudoscience that can be used to detain people who don't do what they want.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If the suspect thinks it works, it mgiht be useful for that reason alone.
Police put the words "He's lying" in a copy machine, and stuck a colander with some wires on a suspect's head, and pressed the copy button whenever they thought he was lying - and got him to confess!
Re:A pack of dogs (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
I thought the US had stopped French-bashing (Score:3, Funny)
Since France is about to join NATO (which of course they call OTAN) this could lead to serious diplomatic incidents.
"You, Sir, are a dirty liar! The machine says so!"
"Sale espece de cochon, I have simply had snails in garlic with a bottle of Burgundy for lunch."
A little joke to make you think (Score:2, Insightful)
Brazil and Argentina have historical disputes over who is the "best" on South America. Obviously it leads to some funny jokes on either side.
One closely related to USA auto induced paranioa state of mind says that an "argentino" and a "brasileiro" found a lamp. The argentino rubbed the lamp first but the brasileiro hold the lamp for him to do it. A genius emerged and saw the problem immediately: he could not grant 3 wishes, one of them would get 2 wishes and other 1. So he granted 2 wishes, one for each of
Re: (Score:2)
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when USA is the most common attacker or influencer on all wars from World War II and later.
How was the USA the "most common attacker or influencer" in WW2 when we remained completely neutral until 1940 (destroyers for bases) and didn't actually enter the war until attacked (Pearl Harbor)?
I can see it now ... (Score:2)
[Prof. Farnsworth is searching for Terrorists with his Smelloscope]
Leela: Anything yet, professor?
Professor Hubert Farnsworth: I'm afraid the Smelloscope can't locate the terrorist. His fragrance is too mild. It's being overwhelmed by local sources.
[Everyone looks at DHS Goon Zoidberg]
DHS Goon Zoidberg: Hooray! Now I'm the center of attention.
so my govt pays for pseudoscience? (Score:2)
what next, phrenology?
phlogiston?
DHS Emulates East Germany's Stasi (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
the Stasi who maintained a "smell register" of dissidents
It's visible in use in the excellent and highly recommended film The lives of others [imdb.com].
DHS should pay a visit to the US congress... (Score:2, Funny)
... There's the smell they are looking for.
Life imitating... er... life? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is just precious - the Stasi in the GDR (east germany to most) did exactly the same thing with their suspects.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,484561,00.html [spiegel.de]
http://scent-lab.blogspot.com/2008/07/body-odor-preserved-and-exhibited-at.html [blogspot.com]
People being interrogated would frequently be asked to sit with their palms face down on a piece of cloth, usually stuck to the chair. After the interrogation, the cloth would be removed and placed in a jar for later analysis. I don't believe it's ever been admissible as evidence in any western court, but that's obviously what the whole DHS "proof" is all about.
Quite why one would invest so many resources in this when fingerprints and DNA are already reliable forms of identification I don't know, and I strongly suspect that the "indicator" of deception will be flawed for much the same reasons the results of a polygraph are flawed - I can understand how someone who's stressed might well emit a different sort of sweat than someone who's just hot, but trying to define a "liars sweat" reeks (hohoho) of pseudoscience to me.
Who knows, maybe there's something in it, maybe the article is making too much of things, maybe I've got my paranoid hat on. But it still seems worryingly like the whole "this man is the serial killer cos his writing is all weird" argument to me.
Truth (Score:4, Funny)
DHS has too much money (Score:3, Insightful)
To paraphrase Buckaroo Banzai: (Score:3, Funny)
You can check your anatomy all you want, and even though there may be normal variation, when it comes right down to it, this far inside pseudoscience it all looks the same.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Welcome to the Gitmo halitosis holding area. In order to pass your odor testing, you'll be required to eat only TexMex food for the next 21 days. If after that time you still fail, you'll be given permanent quarters on the other side of the facility.
You newcomers should take note. nobody likes terrorists. To show support of American, this holding area is sponsored by Scott bathroom tissue and The Fox news network. Please try to avoid shitting yourself stupid.
Re:it might work in some situations.. (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Depending on the sort of molecule they're sniffing for, and the detection method, traces in the parts-per-billion range can be detected almost instantly. The limitation is often the speed at which you can get a billion bits of air through your nozzle - or the wind-speed your detection method can withstand. Honeybees, for example, make good detectors in some circumstances, but get miffed in moderate breezes and refuse to work at all if you blow their antennae off.
However, even if they have to parcel up the s