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Princeton Boasts Its Kindle Project Is Noblest
Posted by
Soulskill
on Sat May 09, 2009 12:15 PM
from the my-textbooks-weigh-nineteen-ounces dept.
from the my-textbooks-weigh-nineteen-ounces dept.
theodp writes "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, what's the noblest Amazon Kindle DX project of all? While other universities announced similar programs, Princeton is boasting its project is unique in that it will focus on sustainability by reducing the amount of electronic-reserve course materials that students print. Under the pilot program, $60,000 will reportedly be used to provide 50 lucky Princeton students with $489 Kindle DX devices loaded with materials for three courses. In a FAQ, students are told not to worry about 'this time of severe economic constraints' — Princeton and Amazon have managed to tap into a fund specifically endowed to support sustainability projects to provide Kindles at no cost. In addition to a $30,000 grant from the High Meadows Foundation, which is headed by Princeton alum Carl Ferenbach (who, coincidentally, serves on the Board of Trustees of the Environmental Defense Fund with the wife of Amazon Director John Doerr), a matching amount will be provided by Princeton alum Jeff Bezos' Amazon. The E-reader Pilot Program has more information."
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Amazon Kindle DX Details Revealed 312 comments
theodp writes with news that details for the Kindle DX are now available. "Specs-wise, the big changes are a larger 9.7-inch screen that rotates to landscape display, a PDF reader, and more storage space. The Kindle DX carries a $489 price tag (compared to the $359 Kindle 2)." Engadget has a series of pictures from Jeff Bezos' presentation, and the Amazon product information page has further details and a video. According to the press release, Amazon has worked out a deal with The New York Times, The Boston Globe, and The Washington Post to "offer the Kindle DX at a reduced price to readers who live in areas where home-delivery is not available."
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Taking notes? (Score:5, Insightful)
How do you take notes on these things?
In all my studies, I REALLY liked to take notes in margins, highlight sections, and draw diagrams/charts/figures/etc.
How are you going to do this on these ebook readers? Even if they were pen enabled, they won't have nearly the resolution needed.
MOREOVER, I like to lay out several pages of notes and open books on my desk while I study so that I can quickly glance around.
I don't see this as being a benefit to students. Just some shiny and fancy technology that someone somewhere thought was good.
They have NOT thought out the usability aspect of this, just what 'sounds' good.
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And of course Kindle doesn't have touch screen... just a QWERTY pad. You can't really type fast on it, but the "click" when you push a button is satisfying and appropriate.
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In all my studies, I REALLY liked to take notes in margins, highlight sections, and draw diagrams/charts/figures/etc.
I liked to not write on the hand-outs or books because often they were not mine or I was planning on reselling them. Instead I just reference the section/page on my ruled notepad. The kindle shouldn't be seen as a replacement for handwritten notes. It should be seen as a tool for storing, distributing, and viewing published information without the bulk of paper.
I think the kindle would be a good device because it will alleviate more of the rote memorization of the learning process and allow students to fo
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I take it you aren't a literature student, then? easiest way to give them a heart attack is to say "I write stuff on my books". Bonus point if you actually do it in front of them, though they may attempt to murder you to stop you from doing such a despicable crime.
Now, I study math and not literature but I do understand the sentiment. My notebook (of the dead tree variant) is for note-taking, hence the name, I reserve my books for reading.
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The benefit is that instead of a pile of text books, all you need to carry around with you is one thin slate. Break it or lose it entirely (not uncommon on college campuses) and it can be replaced with all of your downloaded content.
Furthermore, d/l the Kindle reader for your iPhone/iPod Touch and you have everything available there as well on a device you're likely to have with you always.
Plus, you can purchase and read all of Amazon's other Kindle books,
Kindle 2 (Score:4, Interesting)
I never buy books because I'm lazy and I never know if I'll like them, plus the hassle of having to acquire them and then wait for them to get to you. I've never read Larry Niven, instead opting to read the synopsis of the plots of Wikipedia, but I have read three short stories (Core, Neutron Star, and now in the middle of Flatlander) and I am loving it. I'm writing this because an eBook reader is better than I thought it would be, and it would probably be better than you think, as well. I like it and I'm impressed.
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I never buy books because I'm lazy and I never know if I'll like them, plus the hassle of having to acquire them and then wait for them to get to you. I've never read Larry Niven, instead opting to read the synopsis of the plots of Wikipedia....
Perhaps this is the perfect market for Kindle - people too lazy to read books, who think the only way to find books is online, and who are satisfied with Wikipedia summaries. While there are certainly advantages to a handheld portable library, nothing will replace the real book.
And, seriously, check out a bookstore or library some time -- browse through the shelves and pick up books at random, take one home with you -- I guarantee you'll find it more satisfying than "the hassle of having to acquire them
Why use Kindle? (Score:2)
iLiad supports markup. Kindle is only suitable for non-work or non-school related reading, i.e. fiction, etc.
Re:Why use Kindle? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why is 'markup' a requirement for it to be useable in the classroom?
i have *never* defaced one of my textbooks, ever. Even my lab books remain pristine, as i made any notes on blank paper instead.
Parent
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Just because you don't deface your textbooks for your own benefit does not mean that others don't find it better for them.
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Because many individuals like to mark up their books.
I generally don't mark mine up. That being said, I do mark up some of my books.
An ebook reader that allows markup with text notes and electronic highlighting and the ability to draw figures on a page will be a killer device.
As for resolution, it is definitely doable. Easiest way is to use the whole screen as an input for a pen, with the ability to shrink it down to post-it size or smaller once you finish.
The added benefit of being able to search not jus
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I think GP said "markup" not "marker" or "mark on".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markup_language [wikipedia.org]
Markup is a significant requirement for textbooks, as it is required for things like proper image placement, equations, bulleted/numbered lists etc.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The Kindle DX does support "markup", in the sense of bookmarks, annotations, notes, etc. It doesn't have a Wacom touchscreen or pen input like the iRex devices, no.
On the other hand, I'll put up with keyboard-only input to get a larger screen than the iLiad, and something 1/2 the price of the DR-1000.
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The iLiad also costs $700. Kudos to iRex for making a tablet e-book reader, but at that price it's smarter for students to just get a used tablet PC instead.
Kindle isn't the only e-book reader! (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know why most people think that Kindle is the only e-book reader available.
It isn't. It's not even the best.
Check out the iLiad [wikipedia.org]: it has a bigger screen, higher resolution, much better connectivity (wifi, ethernet, SD/MMC, CF, USB host and device, which means it can read USB keys, but it can also appear as an USB key to a PC) and most important is very open: no DRM bullshit, it runs Linux and if you want you can get root access (without having to crack into your own device), install new applications or whatever...
Disclaimer: I have no relation with iRex, the maker of iLiad, I'm only an happy customer that's pissed off by all the attention that inferior and DRM-infested products like the Kindle get, while a lot of people don't even know that there are alternatives.
P.S.: on a similar note: the iPods are not the only MP3 players, not even the best ones. It's a big world...
Re:Kindle isn't the only e-book reader! (Score:5, Informative)
First of all, the iLiad doesn't have a bigger screen or higher resolution than the Kindle DX. Bigger than the Kindle 2, yes, but the reason the DX is a big deal is because of the larger screen.
Now the iRex DR-1000 is bigger than the Kindle DX, but it also costs nearly $1000. I was looking at the DR-1000, but the reviews seem so mixed... some people are very happy, others really pissed that they spent so much money and got a buggy and apparently very fragile device.
In spite of all that, I was still thinking about dropping a grand on a large e-reader. Then, the DX came along - large, half the cost of the DR-1000, and from a reputable company with a large volume of previous devices sold. iRex may not be a bad company, but they don't have US offices (only through resellers), and their communication with customers leaves much to be desired. My customer experiences with Amazon have been fantastic (had two items replaced w/o question: one had never been delivered, other was defective).
Parent
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First of all, the iLiad doesn't have a bigger screen or higher resolution than the Kindle DX.
Yeah, whatever: you are comparing a product that has been available for years to one that is has not yet been released. I call BS.
To compare apples to apples, the first generation of iLiads has a bigger screen that the first generation of Kindle (including Kindle 2) and the same is true for the latest offerings. And I'm being generous here because the iRex DR-1000 is actually available now, the Kindle DX is not.
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Yeah, whatever: you are comparing a product that has been available for years to one that is has not yet been released. I call BS.
What exactly are you calling BS at? Are you saying you think the DX is vaporware? That's a pretty bold claim, considering Amazon (not Phantom or someone) is already taking orders for it, and has specifications posted, and they have photos and videos of it.
Display: 9.7" diagonal E-Ink® electronic paper display, 1200 x 824 pixel resolution at 150 ppi, 16-level gray scale.
That is both physically larger, and higher resolution than the iLiad (8.1-inch (diagonal) Electronic Paper Display 768 x 1024 pixels resolution, 160 DPI.)
And yes, I know the DR-1000 is available now. It also is about twice the price of the Kindle DX, and i
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One more thing I forgot: unlike the Kindle, the iLiad also has a touchscreen and you can take notes, make drawings and add corrections directly on the pages of any file supported, including PDF and HTML files, just like you would do with a paper book.
But really I want to stress that the most important "feature" is that is not Defective By Design: with the Kindle you have to send your PDF or HTML files to Amazon to be converted to the proprietary and DRM'ed format used, which will then only work on a single
FUD (Score:2)
But really I want to stress that the most important "feature" is that is not Defective By Design: with the Kindle you have to send your PDF or HTML files to Amazon to be converted to the proprietary and DRM'ed format used, which will then only work on a single device, no matter what license you have...
I am not a kindle apologist, but with the DX, that is simply not true. The DX has a built in PDF reader. That's another reason why it's a big deal, and a major advance over the Kindle 2. I think you need to look up the specs [amazon.com] for the DX before commenting further, you're clearly confusing it with the Kindle 2 - it is significantly different.
Also, if it can read PDFs natively, that means you can convert pretty much anything to PDF yourself and read it natively. Just get the PDFCreator print driver - volia - DO
You're forgetting features. (Score:2)
Don't forget about the fact that, with the iLiad/DR1000S, you can annotate/write/underline/etc. in/on PDFs with a stylus (although I found the supplied stylus fairly imprecise, you can replace that by another pen, like the Cross Executive (Capless) pen); something I find very useful while studying/reading. That said, the iLiad probably does lack something by way of user-friendliness, (compared to the Kindle) and is more expensive (although, if you don't care about WiFi, getting the Book Edition will lower t
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and most important is very open: no DRM bullshit
The iLiad has support for Mibipocket's DRM.
Sustainable? (Score:4, Insightful)
What possible reason could there be for anyone thinking that a Kindle represents any sort of "sustainable" anything? Because it reduces the use of a recyclable commodity called paper?
If anything, the production of a Kindle uses vastly more resources than any paper and printing operation. In addition, from my understanding of it (being a Kindle 2 owner) the Kindle display has a rather short lifespan of around 2 years or so. And then it is dead and must be replaced - or at least the contrast is unreadably bad so it must be replaced. What is the lifespan of a modern textbook that is cared for at all well? 20 years? More?
No, I don't think there is anything even remotely "sustainable" about a Kindle and anyone believing that needs to have their head examined. Also, the level of technology required to produce a Kindle and the resources that go into making one are likely enough to feed 100 starving Africans for every Kindle not made. Now that would be a step in the direction of "sustaniable."
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
In my experience, the lifespan of a modern textbook is about 3 years. I mean, you can still read it after that, but good luck trying to use it in a class.
There is some potential that e-readers could be used to replace coursepacks and other printed/photocopied material, so it isn't just textbooks that might be replaced.
Also, the article mentions that there are 60 people trying it, so I wouldn't freak out just yet.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Considering that textbooks get replaced all the time, your estimate for 20 years is unrealistic.
You are correct that the information doesn't change much, but the companies who make textbooks want to sell more, so they issue a new edition, rearrange some of the information in there, and then suddenly the secondary market now has an obsolete book which isn't acceptable for whatever class you are taking.
As for lifespan, my Sony Reader is still going strong after a year of pretty heavy usage. Considering that
Sustainability? (Score:3)
Paper is plenty sustainable. It's a renewable resource that can be recycled easily and cheaply. Obviously it takes some energy to manufacture and ship, but so does the kindle.
The "sustainability" claim is obviously just an excuse for something they wanted to do anyway.
Noblest is not a word (Score:4, Funny)
You want "Most Noble".
English fail (Score:2)
The Oxford English Dictionary attests both forms. Some uses of "noblest".
1616 SHAKESPEARE Julius Caesar (1623) V. v. 67 This was the Noblest Roman of them all.
1818 BYRON Childe Harold IV. cxlvii, Relic of nobler days, and noblest arts!
1976 S. F. HALLGARTEN German Wines vi. 61 The Riesling vine is the noblest that anyone in Germany has up till now succeeded in cultivating for the production of white wines.
These Kindles come with dictionaries, too. Maybe you could use one.
Suspicious (Score:2)
Will they be able to keep devices after they leave school?
If so, Will they be able to continue to access the "e" books permanently, or choose to sell (some/all) of them to a bookstore (but keep their kindle)?
I wonder who is making this endowment. It wouldnt happen to be book publishers, would it? After all, they will get to save on physical publication costs, and at the same time prevent any of these books from finding their way to the resale market, if they get this to catch on. I'm also assuming that they
Cute (Score:2)
Wake me when I can download all my materials onto the thing.
As-is it's just a ridiculously expensive/fragile thing I have to pack in addition to my perfectly competent laptop and 40 LBS of other books.
or
Just give me the damn PDF's and save your money. For $60k they could have made a big dent in the production of a few high quality Free textbooks and save thousands of times that in dead tree books.
Kindle Not Ready for Textbooks... (Score:2, Insightful)
People who say the DX will be great for textbooks have clearly never used a Kindle. I am an owner of both the K1 and the K2 and there are many things that it does exceedingly well. Unfortunately the things that it does NOT do well are exactly the things that students need to work both quickly and efficiently. What things? Well for starters:
1. Page numbers. The Kindle doesn't have page numbers like a traditional book... Instead it uses page numbering system that is fluid based upon font size. Using the sma
Resell eBooks? (Score:2)
The most important question before the Kindle should be used, can these eTextbooks be resold and loaned to other students?
If not, then this is a definite step in the wrong direction, textbooks are far too expensive and would probably get much worse if used wasn't an option.
Burning Money (Score:2)
50 * $489 is $24,450. Sounds like Amazon is even luckier than the students, since Princeton is spending $60,000 on $25,000 worth of Kindles.
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That's exactly what I was wondering...
Throw in the leather cover and extended warranty, and your Kindle costs a maximum of $638... x 50 students, $31,900 for hardware.
That leaves $28,100 for the course materials... / 50 students = $562 per student, / 3 courses = $187 per student per course for electronic materials.
If all those students were law students, and they were all buying their books new, maybe that would make sense. Otherwise, it just sounds like a ripoff. Used textbooks, even multiple ones per cour
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I know even back in the early '90s there were a few courses that I spent ~$200 on books alone, let alone the money at kinkos for copies of presentations and notes, lab materials, or other required merchandise. And I went to a gulp state school. I don't think this is too far out of line. I imagine they are targetting the classes where Kindle can show the most value for this initial pilot.
Of course, at the end of the semester, I got to sell most of it back to the bookstore.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe my case is unusual, but I'm fairly sure I never spent more than $150 on books for a single class, and even that was rare. I went to a state flagship university for undergrad.
The most expensive books were for basic science classes (well, and that one accounting book I bought before realizing that I wanted nothing to do with the business school), running around $80 to $110...
This year, I had to buy a law textbook... the "revised" 4th edition was selling at Barnes and Noble for about $100. I bought the (
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I think you forgot the $20,000 administration fee. The organization behind this charity work needs that for the staff.
Or you can just apply to Princeton . . . (Score:2)
That's definitely another option: http://www.princeton.edu/main/admission-aid/ [princeton.edu]
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Good job manufacturing outrage.
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Princeton is private. But that's not to say that there isn't a world of waste happening at the university level at state sponsored schools.
It really is sad that the education budget numbers always include mismanaged universities when such a small segment of the budget goes to what we think of most when we hear education - elementary, junior high, and high schools. At a higher education facility a 10% budget cut means people will have to use their laptops a bit longer and that new building on campus will h
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The Kindle supports text copying from a book, so you can clip out a section of text and it would likely be more usable than something scanned from a physical book. Not an issue at all. You can also take screenshots of the Kindle screen but that is limited to the physical display, not any particular text.
I am sure the DX will have at least this capability, if not something better in terms of screen shots.
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The new DX supports PDF out of the box and since it is an appropriate size for reading a PDF (8.5X11 / A4)those scans are perfectly good.
!Reply (Score:2)
This is not a reply.
=Yvan256=
Re:This might be controversial, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
As a fellow college student, I have to agree with you. I would hate to have to use a Kindle for my school reading. If the Kindle textbooks were cheaper by a significant amount (i.e. a factor of ten), then I might be forced to reconsider my stance for economic reasons, but even then I wouldn't like it. As I see it, the Kindle offers two advantages over paper books: lack of weight and easy searchability. These are both nice things to have, but certainly they don't outweigh the many disadvantages of the Kindle: need for a battery, annoying interface, a proprietary file format, etc.
For pleasure reading, the Kindle is even worse. When I read a book, I want to actually read a book, not some digital facsimile thereof. If I want to find something new to read, I want the ability to go to a bookstore or the library and browse actual, physical, paper books. If this makes me a snob or a technophobe, so be it.
Finally, I find it very amusing that Princeton is being all high-and-mighty about its Kindle project being sustainable. Paper books, if properly cared for, can last hundreds of years. I have some books that my parents purchased before I was born which are still in good condition today, and I'd like to be able to pass them on to any future children I might have. Will Amazon still support today's Kindle format 50 years from now? Maybe they will, but I'm a bit skeptical.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
The ebooks themselves will last beyond the 50 years you talk about.. but there will probably be 20 plus versions and updated technologies of readers before that time.. and perhaps require converting the info into a different format now and then to keep up... The thing with worrying about that, is you get into the trap of thinking that many did when PC's started becoming popular.. I knew so many people who wanted a PC but were always reluctant to buy because they knew that as soon as they did, it would not b
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Most schools eventually cry uncle and implement some kind of price per printed page. A least most schools don't put "unlimited printing!" in their ad materials (I'm looking at you cable broadband industry).
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