Laser Pointers Classed as Weapons in Australia

An anonymous reader was the first to point to an article in the Sydney Morning Herald which says that New South Wales (of which Sydney is the capital) will prohibit the possession of certain types of laser pointers, defining them as weapons, and make it an offense to carry any laser pointer "without a lawful reason." (Similar coverage at news.com.au) Western Australia apparently beat NSW to the punch, and the federal government of Australia announced earlier this month it will treat laser pointers much like firearms, which, in Australia, is really saying something. The restrictions come as a reaction to incidents (not confined to Australia) in which the lasers were trained on planes, distracting pilots.

It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

They aren't banning class 1 laser pointers (won't cause eye damage) or class 2 laser pointers (your natural blink reflex should be sufficient to protect you from eye damage). They're only banning high powered class 3 and 4 laser pointers (may cause eye damage and need to use eye protection). Most laser pointers are class 2. To be honest, I think this is a good thing. The less idiots with potentially dangerous lasers, the better. A class 2 laser is good enough for most people, and if you really need a bigger one (i.e. not just to compensate for your small breasts/penis), you can get a permit.

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

Well, I RTFAs (the whole two paragraphs of each). It certainly seems like you've hit the nail on the head and I would have to agree - at least without having heard an argument for the other side.

That said, I would wonder a few things:
1. How hard would it be to get a permit? (For instance I have no need for (nor do I own) a class 3 or 4... but I always thought it sounded fun, and I consider myself responsible enough to own one - the same as I feel about guns.
2. Punishable by up to 14 years in jail. Um, Wtf?

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

For people who're not up to speed on laser classifications, a level 3 laser is one that outputs between 5-500 mW and a level 4 goes beyond 500 mW. Already at 100 mW the laser is strong enough to make you blind in less than a millisecond. These laser pointers are not like the ones you'll find in common shops, these can inflict serious damage on people and should be handled with the same care as you'd handle a weapon (which they arguably could be classified as).

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

Only point it up.

I believe that's the problem they're trying to address.

I've been injured by one.

FWIW, I'm one of those who've been injured with a laser pointer. It took a momentary glance up the street after leaving a Newtown bar with friends for me to be left with a blind wiggle across my right eye, from the lower right to the upper left, running right through my fovea. I'm unable to read unless I use my left eye, because with my right there just aren't any words there. I can see the big picture, but no details. That was July 2006, and two years of partial blindness makes a hell of a difference to life. Forget watching fast paced movies and having a clue what's going on, get ready to read 1/3 the speed you used to, and forget being able to look at code and tell the difference between { and ( without using a 20 point font.

And perl... it's all but incomprehensible.. oh wait, I learned that after being blinded. I kid I kid.

The thing about the tools who use laser pointers like this is they can be so far away nobody has any idea who they are, where they are, the beam is silent, and about all you can tell is it's over-that-way-somewhere. The bouncers around that night said they'd seen a laser pointer dot bouncing over guests through the evening, but thought nothing of it.

Whether or not they should be banned is one question, but comparing them to screwdrivers, knives, or axes is being a git who doesn't turn their brain on. At least if some bastard had come at me with a knife they'd have been caught, and at the very least been beaten into a pulp by either my friends, or the bouncers.

The laser pointer tools though - anonymous, quiet, pretty much undetectable, and their weapon leaves absolutely no evidence behind of what it was apart from really fucking bright.

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

No offense mate, but that is such a classic American response... wouldn't be a yank you ya?

You need a lic for anything larger than an air rifle over here... and you can't just carry one of them around either...

We like it that way.

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

Erm, no, we don't. Speak for yourself buddy. An unarmed population is an oppressed population.

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

No, I'm actually a Canadian. I also realise that a requiring a license for something doesn't stop it from being used illegally

What is this all for may I ask? A knee jerk reaction to a vague, potential threat? Because of a "potential to cause mass murder"? How many serial laser pointer killers have there been? In Australia? In the world?

5000$ fines for possesion of non prohibited laser by a unlicensed individual. A possible 14 years in prison for a prohibited laser.

You potentially could spend more time in jail and pay a heavier fine for a laser pointer than heroin, an unlicensed firearm or a hand grenade? That doesn't strike you as... illogical?

That would be a great news story in itself. Man's home searched, found in possession of home made high power laser pointer, gets 14 years in jail. In other news, man convicted of involuntary manslaughter to get 10, parole in 7 and half.

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

No, a classical American response would be to point out that if you own a DVD burner, you already have a more-powerful laser than many of the banned devices.

But then I guess that's the difference between a country of free people who had to earn that freedom by force, versus a country full of quavering subjects who've been taught, as a culture, that they're not to be trusted.

Yeah, which explains why it took an American to use a seemingly innocent material like ammonium nitrate fertilizer to kill 170 people in Oklahoma City.

Give me a break - you can make all of the bullshit Revolutionary analogies you want, the fact is if a US single pilot were blinded by a DVD-homebrew-laser we'd all be forced to get permits for our DVD burners. For fucks sake, every air traveler in the country has to remove their shoes because one wacko thought he could put a bomb in his loafers.

makes no sense

These incidents are, overall, extremely rare. In-flight they are not an issue at all. Furthermore, pilots better be able to deal with them, since there are lots of other sources of bright light that may cause them to be temporarily blinded (or experience the "photic sneeze").

If lawmakers are just itching to make a new law, make it a specific law that says that it's illegal to carry a laser pointer on your person, outdoors, within 2 miles of the runway, where it could be pointed at planes taking off or landing.

Actually, it's a real problem

There have been half a dozen or so such incidents in Australia in the last few months, including one which involved coordinated beams from multiple locations directed at the same plane.

E.g.:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/08/2211257.htm [abc.net.au]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/11/2214689.htm [abc.net.au]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/29/2202704.htm [abc.net.au]

As an Australian who flies quite a lot, I'm extremely happy for them to ban these things if it stops morons from blinding my pilot on final approach. The fact that there have been coordinated attacks is also evidence that it is more than an incidental problem.

The laser pointers will look harmless

compared to the chaos that will ensue after the cats of Australia have found out what lawmakers have done with their favorite toy and rise up as one to slay them.

First they disarmed the wookies

and I stayed silent.

Then they disarmed the ewoks, and I stayed silent.

Then they came to disarm me, and there was no-one left to speak up.

Guns don't kill people

Laser pointers do !

They just need a warning label

They just need a warning label, like 'Warning: Do not point laser at remaining pilot'.

Re:Lawful reason

This is a little excessive, and I challenge the govenrment in NSW to define a lawful reason.

I can think of a logical reason (if you can call it logical).

This whole exercise is not much more than a political diversion. Sydney has some major water/traffic/infrastructure/social/political problems. Rather than deal with them and have everyone talking about how bad the public transport is to the outer suburbs (for example), get everyone talking about laser pointers!!! The lower classes lap it up. It's exactly the same tactic as the Tasmanian governments tactic to push for a state bogan-ball team in the national competition, while avoiding the more pressing issue of two deputy leaders being sacked for corruption within a very short space of time.

It's got very little to do with safety and much more to do with politics and power.

Re:Lawful reason

Thanks for the commentary Mr. Armchair Aviation Security Expert.
I am an Australia Flight Instructor rated for night flying. The fuckwits target us at least once a week around Melbourne especially on approach (Usually Essendon and Moorabbin too).
How the fuck am I suppose to fucking land when I have some asshole trying blind me? As another pilot here said (Is that you Rob?) "If I'm flying VFR and I can't fucking see then I am going I'm going to have an accident".
And what possible political purpose in your dimwit mind of yours could there be to ban high powered laser pointers? A distraction for more serious issues? Are you saying that the possibility of an aircraft crashing into built areas is not serious?

Needs a technological solution

Sounds to me like we need a technological solution.

If laser pointers are this dangerous simply banning them is not going to be much of a deterrent against someone who wants to use one to /really/ crash an airplane.

I wonder if some kind of coating can be applied to the windows of airliners that can reduce the intensity of laser beams without compromising pilot visibility?

Re:Lawful reason

I really hate idiots who play with laser pointers. The ones being banned in Australia are Class III and Class IV ones which can easily blind someone.

personally, popping balloons with the things is a lawful reason to carry :)

It seems like if it can pop balloons, it's not the sort of thing you want drunken kids playing with. My right not to be blinded trumps your right to burst balloons when drunk.

Here's what a 5mW laser looks like to a pilot.

http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircraft-animation-and-explanation.htm [pangolin.com]

Re:Lawful reason

If we're going to ban everything that isn't safe for use by drunken children, we're not going to be left with much that's legal.

Re:Lawful reason

I really hate idiots who play with laser pointers.

I'm with you. I'm an Aussie and I'm fine with the law.

Recent personal experience: I was the first to pull up to a stop light on a 4-lane road, with my wife beside me and my two year old daughter in the back seat. As I put my foot on the brake approaching the intersection I suddenly suffered a complete loss of vision (As IN - WHAT THE F..K??? I CANT SEE. MY EYES? WTF IS WRONG WITH MY EYES!?!?). In the confusion I somehow managed to come to my senses enough to lock the brakes before going through the intersection.

As my eyesight returned and I sat there trying to work out what just happened, I turned to see a 15-16 year old sitting in a car beside me with his mates, laughing their arses off.

I nearly wiped out my whole family - and they thought it was the funniest thing in the world.

The problem was - at the time I had NO IDEA what was happening to me - I didnt know it was a laser pointer until afterwards. At a critical moment I blinked and my eyes didnt work - it FREAKED me out, and this wasnt even one of the lasers that they're banning.

BTW - Yes I got out of the car..and YES, I still have the laser pointer the kid used.

Re:Lawful reason

Will my tank full of sharks count as a "lawful reason"?

Re:While we're at it...

Lots of people were quick to jump on the "let's ban X and Y every-day items as well" bandwagon. But seriously, for what legitimate reason might someone carry around a class 3 or 4 laser? If they have a reason to have that equipment (researchers, etc), then it's considered lawful use, and the authorities won't hassle you. Why is it important that the rest of us have access to powerful lasers?

Cars are an essential tool in most peoples' lives. We realize they kill more people than lasers, but we couldn't exactly give them up. Powerful lasers serve no useful purpose in the hands of someone who doesn't depend on them for work-related reasons, and so it seems like a smart move to take them away.

Of course, I don't think this will stop anyone from trying to bring down planes. It's just like banning guns in Australia - the people who want them to cause mischief aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the lack of legal avenues through which they can obtain one. If you want to cause trouble, the black market will ALWAYS be there.

Re:While we're at it...

When I found out that it was legal to own and buy a 300mW laser pointer, I was actually quite suprised. Those are really quite hazardous without 'sensitive' handling. No one really cares about burning through paper or popping balloons, but the 'and might blind bystanders, even with just beam scatter' is IMO a good enough reason to restrict their usage.

Unlike arcwelders, or cars, I can't think of a lot of good reasons for a high intensity laser.

Having them available to 'everyone' in my opinion vastly increases the probabilty of a random fool doing something foolish.

But then, I think the same about firearms too, except even there there's 'real' self defense possibilities.

The U.S. does already

It's illegal to have headlights above a certain brightness level, or perhaps it's above a certain number of lights - but there are light configurations you can put on a car that will get you pulled over if you have them on for street driving.

Now it's not illegal to have said lights mounted, so that's the point where the car analogy breaks (as they always do). But it does show your point is not as ridiculous as you had thought, because having really bright beams pointed at traffic is in fact a valid safety issue.