First Caller-ID Spoofers Punished

coondoggie plugs a NetworkWorld story that begins, "The first telemarketers charged with transmitting false Caller IDs ... to consumers were fined and barred from continuing their schemes by a New Jersey District Court judge.... [T]wo individuals and one corporate defendant have been barred from violating the agency's Telemarketing Sales Rule and its Do Not Call requirements ... They were also found liable for $530,000 in damages ... [T]he case was the first brought by the Commission alleging the transmission of phony caller ID information or none at all."

I hope that this set precedent...

I hope that this set precedent for spammers.

http://what-is-what.com/what_is/spam.html [what-is-what.com]

Re:I hope that this set precedent...

Play the fools at their own game.

Print one of these out and keep it by the phone:
Anti-Telemarketing Script [xs4all.nl]
Anti-Telemarketing Script [ucan.org]
Anti-Telemarketing Script [junkbusters.com]

Re:I hope that this set precedent...

As a former Telemarketer, I love the EGBG script... (now that is)...

The things Telemarketers hate most is wasting their time. What is probably more mean, is to pretend to be interested and ask ton's of questions about whatever they are selling. Go along and act like your going ot buy everything they have to sell and then right at the end say, "Nah, I changed my mind" and hang up...

Just hang up?

Sure, it's a hoot the first time or two around, but the thing that we hate about telemarketers is the distraction and waste of time that they represent, isn't it? When you start running through these scripts, dragging out the call instead of just hanging up, isn't that even more of a waste of your own time, taking you away from whatever interesting thing it was that you were doing?

It seems to me that a simple hang-up is just as (not very) effective at stopping telemarketing as a phenomenon, and takes about 1/100th the time.

I try to be considerate to other persons: let them merge in traffic, hold the door open, not stand in front of the shelf they want to look at, and so forth, but I'm not really inclined to martyr my own time so that someone somewhere won't get a call. That person can do the same as I: just hang up.

Re:I hope that this set precedent...

I always hoped that, even if my individual complaints weren't looked into, maybe they would aggregate complaints, and investigate the bigger offenders.

Last year, out of the blue, I received an envelope from our Commonwealth's Attorney General. My first thought was, "Huh. They finally caught up to me. Took them long enough."

I opened the envelope and inside was a letter and a check. The letter indicated that sometime back I had submitted a complaint to them about someone who had left repeated messages on my answering machine even though I was on the DNC list. After investigation, the company was fined and the check represented my portion of the settlement amount.

The federal list might take longer but at least in my case, Pennsylvania does investigate marketers who do not observe the list and penalizes them.

You're probably wondering about the check, aren't you? It was more than $10 but less than $100. Enough to fill up my tank a few times back when gas was less than $3/gallon.

and if you rtfa

you find out they don't have it and are only paying 45,000 in fines..

Re:and if you rtfa

My brother is a DA. Getting a conviction is less than 50% of his job. The majority of his time goes to finding out where the poor helpless bankrupt criminals have hidden their stash. (And he is really good at it ;-)

Re:

Also according to tfa the original fine is based on gross revenue. That means all income, before cost. Of course a fine has to be punitive, but gross revenue that of course no-one can pay. Many costs have to be deducted, starting of course with their telep

Ban them from using phones

When "hackers" get caught, it's not uncommon for the judge to ban them from using computers for a period of time. Ban the caller ID spoofers from using a telephone for a few years, either for business or personal use (with an emergency usage exception).

Re:Ban them from using phones

Not only I totally agree with your "same yardstick" principle, I also propose following natural application of it: "any guy caught urinating in public should not be allowed to use his penis ever again."

why waste their time and money?

"...calling consumers on the National DNC Registry"

Maybe someone can help me understand something here. Why would a company want to waste their resources marketing to people who have made an overt effort to opt-out? Do they really think that people will make a purchase if they could through?

Personally, I've put my number on the "do not call list" and I wouldn't buy anything from a telemarketer purely as a matter of principle - I'd pay more elsewhere just to avoid encouraging this form of marketing. I've never met anyone who didn't feel similar about getting sales calls at home.

Re:why waste their time and money?

In theory, that makes perfect sense. But in practice, there are enough people who, even though they don't like being called, still get talked into stuff over the phone. "No, I'm not interested. Wait, you said I could lower my mortgage payments by *how* much?"

When the DNC lists went into effect, many telemarketers tried to spin it into a positive thing, saying that the gov't was actually helping them by cleansing their lists of the people who wouldn't buy anything anyway. It was cute, because the DNC lists really killed their old business models. Looks like the survivors out there are relying heavily on loopholes in the law and the relative lack of enforcement.

to remove yourself from this list, click here

Why would a company want to waste their resources marketing to people who have made an overt effort to opt-out?

Why does unsubscribing from V1A9R4 spam lists get you more spam?

Re:why waste their time and money?

Maybe some people register on DNC-lists because they know they're pushovers?

I didn't think that was why I registered, but now that you mention it, that was probably the real reason.

Marketing

To those people asking why you would want to call a "Do Not Call" list anyway...

I know a few people who work in telesales and it's usually the stupid and draconian rules put on the employees by the company, despite there being no actual proof that they would improve sales. In fact, in some places where they listen to the employees, changes can be made to INCREASE sales by cutting out known-bad calls as soon as possible.

E.g. (these are ACTUAL examples of PRESENT policies among some UK tele-sales offices)

"You can not hang up on the customer. They must hang up."

One of my friends had a three-hour ordeal with a woman whose husband had died and had to persist trying to sell to her because she could only plead for THEM to hang up, she was so upset. Yes, the woman should have just hung up rather than upsetting herself but she was hardly thinking straight.

"You must try to make an appointment for a salesman to call, even if you know it will mean no sale."

So tele-sales were booking appointments with people who were so annoyed at the telesales that they were threatening violent action. They were talking these people into BOOKING AN APPOINTMENT with a real, physical representative of the company who then turns up their house only to be pulverised.

On a similar tack, I just had a sleazy salesman knock at my door the other day. His opening words, while flashing an EDF Energy ID card, were "Hi, we're from EDF Energy and we're here to give you a new prepayment electricity key". Okay, I'm listening. I have a pre-pay meter. But I know there's something not quite right. The following conversation then ensued.

"Okay... erm... but I don't think I'm with EDF." (I'm actually with E-On but I was sufficiently confused between the two to take a second. Note that in this second he would not have been allowed access to the property or even the meter cupboard anyway. I'm not THAT stupid).

"Oh. Well. Would you mind telling us who you *are* with then?"

"Erm. You know? I'm not telling you."

"Why not?"

"I believe you're a salesman. Goodbye."

"Thank you sir."

Two hours later, he was back and I opened the door again (the wife had been suitably alerted by this time anyway so she would have slammed the door in his face too). He only said "Oh, it's you. We've spoken to you."

What got me was the unbelievably casual fraud (they implied, even if the actual words didn't say, that they were my current electricity supplier when in fact they were planning to sign me up to a new electricity supplier by inserting the key into my meter). And the fact that they went up the road and obviously carried on with the same line for the rest of the afternoon before turning back and trying the houses that they'd missed.

If I hadn't been in the middle of laying a new floor at the time, I would have shouted down the street and knocked on everybody's doors to warn them myself, or call the police and make them explain themselves. They may have been doing nothing "wrong" but I'm sure that a police officer wouldn't take kindly to their sales pitch and it would cause them enough trouble to try another street.

Guess what happens next time I'm choosing an electricity supplier? The ones who commit fraud on my doorstep don't get included.

Re:

"You can not hang up on the customer. They must hang up."

Ok, this just struck me as funny since my favorite thing to do with telemarketers is to get them talking and then quietly set the phone down and walk away. It doesn't cost me a dime, I have a cell

Will it actually change anything?

Will it actually change their marketing ploys? I doubt it.

Just the other day, I was taking care of dinner and kids when phone rang. It had my wife's name (yes, I have; and yes some role reversal, but I get home earlier, etc..) Without thinking, I answered. It was a stinking telemarketer. When I chewed her out and she hung up, I looked back at the caller ID log. Instead of my wife's name and cell phone # as usual, it had wife's name and our own land line phone number! So not only did this company spoof the name, but also the #. And it seems to happen a lot lately!

We don't answere the phone unless it is someone we know, and now I have to even worry about that! No, I'm not dodging creditors, I just rank time with kids and family as more important than solicitations for "Troopers association" or other junk callers. If I need your service, I'll look you up. Don't bug me with calls when I'm with the family!

"have been barred..."

Part of their punishment was to be barred from violating the very rules they were convicted of violating?! Does that make any sense?!

Re:

Easy: Stupidity once removed, i.e. some telemarketeer gets paid by the number of calls made where somebody was on the other side, not the number of sales. Personally I never buy products that telemarketers advertised ever again, but it seems not enough peo

Re:Absolutely right. Its just one more form of spa

and I HATE spam.

The secret is a dash of paprika.

Re:Absolutely right. Its just one more form of spa

Only if you by 'a dash' mean alot and by 'paprika' you mean tequila

Re:Jesus Christ

Gives us legitimate telemarketing companies a bad name.

There are *no* legitimate telemarketing companies. Nobody has ever asked you to call them on the telephone and try to sell them something; stop trying to pretend otherwise. If you call me with a sales pitch, regardless of what it is or who you represent, I'll want your head on a pike.

Re:Jesus Christ

There are legit telemarketing companies. I know of a couple who call people regarding renewals of their magazine subscriptions. They are calling their existing customers who have not yet renewed, offering a discounted renewal rate if they renew before their subscription runs out.

I do believe you have a point that there are no legit cold-call telemarketing companies.

Re:Jesus Christ

If I want your product, I'll go looking for it. This is the beauty of the internet age. I do not need to be called at home and be "sold" on something I did not ask for. If I called you, and you are returning my call, this is completely different.

Dean Wurmer says...

If I understand this correctly, they may no longer violate the rule because they've been... barred from violating the rule.

That's correct. They're now on double secret probation.