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Italy May Hold Its Own Pirate Bay Trial 120

Posted by timothy from the keeping-up-with-the-johannsens dept.
hyanakin writes with an excerpt from TorrentFreak: "Following the Swedish verdict, Italy is now considering starting its own trial against the people involved with The Pirate Bay. This would be the first criminal prosecution against the Pirate Bay 'founders' outside their home country." Funny thing: almost 20 years ago, CD stores in Germany all seemed to be full of bootleg concert CDs pressed in Italy.
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Italy May Hold Its Own Pirate Bay Trial More

Italy May Hold Its Own Pirate Bay Trial

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  • Jurisdiction? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rts008 ( 812749 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @04:55PM (#27801179) Journal

    FTFA:

    According to Sunde's lawyers, one of the issues still under discussion is whether the evidence collected by the Swedish authorities is legal or not. Thus far, the only binding jurisdiction with regard to The Pirate Bay is that the Italian blocking order was absolutely unlawful under criminal law.

    Nevertheless, the entertainment industry is one step ahead and already thinking about how they will divide the booty. Simona Lavagnini, one of the lawyers representing the Italian music industry said that it is not very realistic to expect the defendants to be extradited to Italy, but she believes that fines and a seizure of assets belong to the possibilities.

    Are the Italians going to invade other countries to seize these assets? Does TPB even have any assets in Italyto be seized?

    This sounds like another 'me too' bullshit stunt to me.

    • Re:Jurisdiction? (Score:4, Informative)

      by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @06:28PM (#27801651) Homepage Journal

      With the WTO they have some power to reach out of their countries borders.

      Extradition has happened in other cases too.

      its BS if you ask me, but im not running the show.

      • Extradition tends to happen in stupid countries like the UK, where the government doesn't properly protect its citizens. Countries which take their duties to their citizens seriously have blanket non-extradition policies for any reason.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rts008 ( 812749 )

        Like the ACTA deal?

        You have a point...thanks for the reply.

    • I thought they already moved servers to the netherlands anyway. What would they be seizing?

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by samriel ( 1456543 )
        The servers, AFAIK last, were spread around the world, with lots of them in Egypt and the Netherlands. There are surely more... I don't doubt that there is at least one server in every Eastern European country.

        /serbian pirates ftw?
        //citation needed

    • "but she believes that fines and a seizure of assets belong to the possibilities"

      I think by "assets" they mean they hope to find logs of up-loaders.

      From what I hear, each threatened lawsuit against up-loaders is worth about $3500 in the US, the average dollar amount that people have been "settling" for when threatened with a lawsuit. If the record companies/RIAA don't WANT to settle, then a HELL of a lot more.

      Once again folks, it is all about money. And your letting YOUR governments be USED to make it happe

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by rts008 ( 812749 )

        Okay, I am from the USA, so I know how the RIAA works here...but...

        I understand the $3500/suit you mention, but I do not understand how Italy thinks it has a chance at getting any of this money.
        This is what I was talking about when I said it was a 'me too' stunt.
        All 'fluff, smoke, and mirrors' to further an agenda...I do not know enough about Italian politics to be sure...but I'm just suspicious....

        I truly do not understand the connection of how 'each up-loader' is worth *3500 to the Italian Gov't.
        Is Italy

        • Of course they can, if the uploader IP is Italian. They simply look through the logs, find the IPs inside their jurisdiction, and crank out settlement offers by the dozen - profit!

  • Stupidity (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 02, 2009 @04:56PM (#27801181)

    The problem with people is stupidity, isn't it?

    Watch out Google, you're next!

  • How... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Darkness404 ( 1287218 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @04:59PM (#27801195)
    How can they be tried in Italy? That doesn't make any sense unless the founders A) Lived in Italy B) Had Itallian bank accounts or other finances C) Did (physical) business in Italy with a physical presence.

    Really, this doesn't make any sense.

    • Re:How... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by TheSpoom ( 715771 ) * <slashdot@@@uberm00...net> on Saturday May 02, 2009 @05:03PM (#27801219) Homepage Journal

      Thank you, this is exactly what I was thinking.

      My guess is that they believe that because it happens "over the internet" (duh-duh-DUH!) it's an international issue and that they may be able to get them extradited. Which, y'know, is stupid, but then, that's government for you.

      • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

        by erroneus ( 253617 )

        That logic only works for extraditing people to the U.S. When people are to be extradited to other countries, then it's a crime of all sorts that should never be allowed to happen. (I am referencing the British subject who was sent to the U.S. for hacking into NASA or whatever...)

        • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          I think that is a little different. Specifically targeting a U.S. group like nasa is a crime targeting that country. Its not the same as doing general business online. If you don't see the difference, you are either ignorant or dishonest.

      • Wait. Why is that stupid? The internet is an international entity these days. It seems nuts to maintain individual sovereignty over "pieces" of the net, when everyone has access to almost everything.

        Not that I'm picking on TPB specifically here (which is what I'd normally do), but in principle, it seems like a good idea to lay down (or update) some treaties here.

        • But the net can and will exist in anarchy. You assume that if we take down all regulations regarding the internet, it would become a train wreck. It won't because people are naturally orderly.

          • You assume that if we take down all regulations regarding the internet, it would become a train wreck.

            I hate people telling me what I assume. You're assuming that I was worried about the health of the internet.

            I know that the internet will survive without regulation (at least, with regards to content). I'm talking about impact of the internet on societies (not vice-versa). It makes sense to consider the internet as an international entity for the sake of individual countries trying to uphold their laws with

            • 'Otherwise, it's a simple matter for people to move off-shore and continue what they're doing in a country that allows it.'

              You say that like it's a bad thing.

            • It makes sense to consider the internet as an international entity for the sake of individual countries trying to uphold their laws within their own countries. Otherwise, it's a simple matter for people to move off-shore and continue what they're doing in a country that allows it.

              So basically, in the current state of affairs I don't have to give a shit about what Chinese government thinks of what I post online. You wish to change this. Why?

              • Not that, specifically.

                Say, for example, you have a child (say 13 or 14), and some peeping tom caught him or her experimenting sexually in bed. They then this guy decides to share this video with other like-minded creeps, which is sharing child pornography, and is, quite frankly, wrong (being a humiliating, drastic, and irreversible infringement on a child's right to privacy). Now, the paedophile has the option to move offshore, to a country with lower ages of consent, both for sex and participating in porn

                • First of all, someone interested in 14-year old isn't a paedophile. A paedophile is someone who's interested in pre-pubescent children, not someone who's interested in teenagers.

                  That said, your entire argument basically boils down to "think of the children!" Now, I'm sick of thinking of children all the time, and having my rights trampled on just so some horrible paedophile has a little harder time viewing pictures or a video tape. So kindly take your International Internet Decency Board or whatever the Hel

                  • With the exception of the first and last paragraph, every single sentence you uttered was wrong. Every rhetorical question you asked was either moot, or inflected completely the wrong way. Every single one. You have completely misjudged, and I can only hope for the sake of the human race, misread my comment, and lit up a strawman in celebration of your display of massive, massive idiocy. Historical evidence and logic have long abandoned people who are as abrasively stupid as you, sir.

                    Enjoy alienating people

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by KDR_11k ( 778916 )

          There are hundreds of different jurisdictions on Earth, many having laws that conflict with those of others. If you could be tried in all of those for anything you did on the internet you'd easily end up pronounced guilty (and if just by default) in several every time you do anything on the internet, no matter how legal it is in your country. It makes sense to restrict the ability to sue someone to at least the jurisdictions he acted in. Sony once filed tons of nonsensical lawsuits against an exporter in ma

      • Just out of curiosity, suppose I live in country X where murder is legal. If I stand on the border and shoot someone in neighboring country Y, what are the consequences for me?

      • Next up: "Kentucky to Hold It's Own Pirate Bay Trial"

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Swizec ( 978239 )
      Both Italy and Sweden are part of the EU, so maybe there's a way because of that?

      • Re:How... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Darkness404 ( 1287218 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @05:16PM (#27801289)
        But that doesn't make any sense either, because then you could get sued for a situation like this:

        A) Create a website that violates some law in one country that is part of the EU, such as distributing Nazi texts which (as far as I know) is illegal in Germany, but legal in some EU nations such as the UK (where they actually have some shell of freedom of speech)

        B) The website is hosted in a legal country such as the UK and all maintainers of it live, work, and have all financial ties in the UK

        C) Germany brings charges against you

        That just doesn't make any sense (not that most governments do), and seems contrary to having independent nation's laws rather then general EU laws.

        • The way i have always seen it, is if there is a crime, there are two parties involved (in "copyright infringement" anyway).

          TPB is in Sweden, so they done the offence there, the only thing Italy can do IMO is charge the people that copied the "artwork".

          Anything else wouldn't be legal?

        • But that doesn't make any sense either, because then you could get sued for a situation like this: A) Create a website that violates some law in one country that is part of the EU, such as distributing Nazi texts which (as far as I know) is illegal in Germany, but legal in some EU nations such as the UK (where they actually have some shell of freedom of speech) B) The website is hosted in a legal country such as the UK and all maintainers of it live, work, and have all financial ties in the UK C) Germany brings charges against you That just doesn't make any sense (not that most governments do), and seems contrary to having independent nation's laws rather then general EU laws.

          Umm, maybe you're joking, but that actually happened [infoworld.com].

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by daybot ( 911557 ) *

          such as the UK (where they actually have some shell of freedom of speech)

          Clearly you haven't visited us recently :(

    • Of course they can be tried in Italy, if there's a law in Italy saying they can be tried. Whether they'll be there for the trial is another matter, but if convicted while absent, I guess these people would do well to avoid traveling to Italy.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by ElectricRook ( 264648 )

        I guess these people would do well to avoid traveling to Italy

        and avoid traveling to anywhere with an extradition treaty with Italy.

        So now do we have to stand trial in each of 190 countries for violating someone's sensibilities on the internet?

    • Really, this doesn't make any sense.

      That's why they will be allowed to use the Chewbacca defense at trial.

    • How can they be tried in Italy? .

      Tried? Wrong verb. It's called a "shakedown."

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by orzetto ( 545509 )

      It does make a certain sense. Remember who is in charge in Italy [wikipedia.org]. The guy owns a^Hthe media conglomerate in the country. His company (or was that the government?) has sued Youtube already, and his government becomes hyperactive every time his private interests are in question.

      On the other hand, remember that trials in Italy last for insane amounts of time: it can take decades on average for some kind of trials to reach the end, and at the same time the statutory terms are relatively short and keep running d

      • Therefore, TPB runs quite a low risk.

        Assuming TPB even wants to bother. If a defendant is absent, the trial might actually be quite fast.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Dan541 ( 1032000 )

      They can still hold a trial, just because they have no jurisdiction doesn't mean they can't waste money. This is just like the Spamhaus vs Spammer lawsuit.

    • Tell that to Ebay after France blocked it in its DNS for allowing Nazi objects to be sold.

    • Ever heard of international copyright treaties?

  • Anyone else see a plot for a new action film.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by syousef ( 465911 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @05:01PM (#27801211) Journal

    He was a pirate...his father was a Swedish pirate, his mother an Italian beauty...now he faces his greatest challenge.

    *queue music*

    *fade in* RIAA *fade out*

    *fade in* MPAA *fade out*

    *queue fast drum music*

    *flash quickly in time ot music to lots of scenes of kids downloading crap from their bedrooms and basements*

    Okay maybe not an action film...

  • As it's Italy half way through the prosecution the government will change sides and support the defendants. This is good news for the PB folks.

  • Pirate Bay is not the same as dimeadozen, zomb, traders den, etc.

  • Those Bootlegs Were Legal (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Telephone Sanitizer ( 989116 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @05:18PM (#27801297)

    > Funny thing: almost 20 years ago, CD stores in Germany all
    > seemed to be full of bootleg concert CDs pressed in Italy.

    In fact, it was perfectly legal to record a live concert and sell the recording from Italy if the bootlegger opened a bank account and deposited a royalty for the artist.

    There was even an official stamp issued to those bootleggers who registered with the Italian Authors Society.

    • Irregardless, what does someone in Italy selling bootleg CDs 20 years ago have to do with the Italy's legal branch considering a trial?

  • For when they enter Italy...? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Kidbro ( 80868 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @05:23PM (#27801325)

    While it is wholly ridiculous to believe that this would have any real effect on the TBP people while they resided in Sweden, it may or may not give Italian authorities cause to intervene if any of them ever visited Italy.

    If they did, they would not be the first country [wikipedia.org] to do so.

  • LOL @ .it domains (Score:4, Funny)

    by wulfmans ( 794904 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @05:28PM (#27801355)
    I admin an IRC server and the country that is always using the !List command the most is Italy (95% of the time). I am sure you all know that !list is how you trigger a fserv on IRC. What are they looking for you ask? WAREZ !!! It's gotta be a joke they would consider having a trial.

  • In Italy... (Score:1, Troll)

    by JAlexoi ( 1085785 )
    In Italy pirated software and video CDs and DVDs are still common place. I mean, there are people that are charged with preventing IP piracy, who are actively involved with it. And there are people making money off infringing copyright - the actual pirates.
    The last place you get your copyright infringing items is the pirate bay.

  • Dear Italy (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Dear Italy,
    Blow it out of your bum.

    Sincerely,
    The rest of the world.

  • Lesson Learned (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @06:29PM (#27801653) Homepage Journal

    While you may be right, its time to take all this back underground.

    What you cant see you cant sue/stop/fight.

  • The verdict is a scandal and destined to be overturned, in addition it's currently non-binding.

    The judge has obvious and close-knit ties to the **AA through intimate lobby groups (composed of small numbers of powerful people), and has committed obvious breaches of swedish judicial procedure allowing "surprise witnesses" by the prosecution.

    The verdict was "leaked" to the media before results were delivered to the defendants, and within minutes these **AA organizations were in the halls of legislation world-w

  • All is but in vain.
    The trend is clear. More trials, more laws, more victims, more prisons, less privacy, hello, 1984.
    What can you do against well-organized global copyright advocates?
    All countries have fallen under their logic, those who are still free will obtain their "intellectual property" laws shortly.
    You lose! I don't see how any one can beat advocates of copyright on their field.
  • If one knows that the government in Italy is "owned" by the richest Italy man and owner of the biggest MEDIA concentration. He's only protecting his business (which is the very reason that led him into politics).

  • That is just to protect their source.

  • It's the newest fashion now to have the Pirate Bay trials. After half a year you (if you are a nation leader, that is) will not be able to look your peers in the eye if you haven't had a Pirate bay trial. "Bah, what country are you anyway? You even didn't have a Pirate Bay trial! Ridiculous!"

  • I'm Italian and I'm quite confident that the Government wants just a slice of the media hype.
    When the whole thing will disappear into its own nothingness, it will have been already long forgotten and the media will not even cover it.
    That's how it works.

  • Doesn't the EU have the concept of double jeopardy [wikipedia.org]?

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