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Yea, but he was raised by a different Dad (Score:5, Interesting)
There are three of us. Two of us are within 2 years in age but the youngest is 14 years younger than I am. My younger brother and I are self taught in much of what we know. I've gone to a few college classes for specific things but not an eye to getting a degree. My youngest brother has an MBA and a big house in the suburbs.
So we poke at him telling him he was raised by a different dad. :) Ours was in the Navy and just getting started, dealing with trying to support a family, and a job that took him away half the year. His was well established, had a nice house and good income, and was able to devote time to him.
[John]
Re:Yea, but he was raised by a different Dad (Score:2)
Re:Yea, but he was raised by a different Dad (Score:2)
I didn't realize I was selling anything. The question was level of formal education between siblings. And I don't think I said or even implied Dad was good or bad.
[John]
Re:Yea, but he was raised by a different Dad (Score:4, Funny)
I didn't realize I was selling anything.
Your MBA-holding little brother would have :P
Re:Product of your environment (Score:2)
The US is spiraling down into the Third World. We are going to be like some bifurcated society where we have a shit load of poor people and a handful of rich folks.
I know very little about the US, but i was under the impression that it's already like that. It's certainly got ten times the incarceration rate of the next most incarcerated country.
Re:Product of your environment (Score:2)
[......] It's certainly got ten times the incarceration rate of the next most incarcerated country.
Oops! No, that's not true (i should have checked before i posted, rather than after!) However, the incarceration rate is considerably higher than most of the rest of the world.
Re:Product of your environment (Score:2)
I'm sure your youngest brother will protest that he worked hard and everything for what he has. And he did, no doubt. But he was handed opportunities that he wasn't aware of - like some that you have mentioned. Having a college educated parent also means that they know the ropes of the college system - and a book can be written just on that. There were many things that my classmates who had college educated parents knew and took for granted that I had to find out for myself the hard way.
There are layers of this. My parents and older siblings are college educated but at the lower end of the scale: fairly generic bachelors degrees from low/moderate ranking state schools. More affluent and highly educated families push for advanced degrees, renowned schools, and other paths to notoriety. I was only expected to get a piece of paper.
Middle one.... (Score:3, Interesting)
My old brother had trouble learning. My parents did everything in their power to get him a decent education. They managed barely. I suffered my whole life because of him, because I had to be lenient because my parents said "please, understand, it's $firstname_of_my_brother". I didn't even dare to celebrate my high school diploma.
He's a swell guy, I wouldn't want to miss him... I also understand my parents: both intelligent people with University degrees and they got much less than what they bargained for.
Me? Did pretty much what was expected from me. Slept through high school, did University lazily, got through with not much effort.
My younger sister was, let's say pretty alternative. Bright, but very very very lazy. She calculated her grades so to just pass. Of course, that went bad after a few years. Took a long of time to get her through high school (with a pratical part in accounting, so technically she can do an accounting job). She did follow her passion and did an (very expensive private) sound engineering school. Which she only absolved with a "did participate courses" certificate. She does the job she likes though, working for concert gigs.
Formal degrees is one thing. My siblings actually lived and did some interesting stuff, met interesting people... I just did what I was expected to... Who made the right choice, I ask you?
Re:Middle one.... (Score:2)
Err...where is this high school that teaches accounting? I've never heard of such a thing, till you got into college?
Re:Middle one.... (Score:2)
FWIW my high school (Freehold Township High School, Freehold, NJ) 10 years ago had Accounting I and Accounting II. Stupid ALOE (Assets = Liabilities + Owner’s Equity). I still have it engrained in my head.
Re:Middle one.... (Score:1)
Re:Middle one.... (Score:2)
Err...where is this high school that teaches accounting? I've never heard of such a thing, till you got into college?
During the 10th grade, I took "Record Keeping", which was essentially Accounting Lite. The high school I went to for my second two years offered classes in accounting, drafting, and aviation, the last taught by one of the language teachers who had a private pilot's license. I think the drafting classes were a similar case of a teacher offering a class in something related to his personal interests. A lot can depend on how interesting your teachers' hobbies are, how feasible they are for a school setting/budget (kind of hard to teach auto shop if the school doesn't have the facilities for it), and how un-blockheaded the school administration is.
Lets see... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've got a sister who's got a BS degree in "Landscape Engineering," she bakes bread for a living.
I've got a sister who's got a BS in Geology and was recently making serious cheddar but the mine closed, so she decided to have a baby and is is out for the duration.
I've got a brother who's a welder, owns some cows, and fancies himself a rancher in progress.
Finally, I've got a brother who thinks that education is something the "man" uses to keep you down.
As for me? Associates degree in business, bachelors degree in general studies in another 18 credits (been doing it in my 'spare' time) and the only one of the lot to have a long-term career, I've been doing computers for 18+ years now. From my experience, the degree doesn't do much but get you in the door for the interview in IT...90% of what I know by heart came from doing it and being a nerd, the other 10% can be determined via Google.
Re:Lets see... (Score:3)
Having read the first two paragraphs in your post, when you mentioned your sis with the geology degree - for a couple moments I thought you meant she was making craft cheeses.
Re:Lets see... (Score:5, Funny)
Having read the first two paragraphs in your post, when you mentioned your sis with the geology degree - for a couple moments I thought you meant she was making craft cheeses.
Mmmm...cheddar mine
Re:Lets see... (Score:2)
Having read the first two paragraphs in your post, when you mentioned your sis with the geology degree - for a couple moments I thought you meant she was making craft cheeses.
Mmmm...cheddar mine
Located in Cheddar [wikipedia.org] Gorge [wikipedia.org], naturally.
Re:Lets see... (Score:2)
There is precisely one cheese maker in Cheddar (the town). Most of the good stuff comes from farms in the general vicinity.
Re:Lets see... (Score:4, Funny)
Cheese mining technology will seriously take off once we establish a moon base.
Re:Lets see... (Score:2)
Re:Lets see... (Score:4, Funny)
This thread is getting too cheesy for me
Re:Lets see... (Score:2)
This thread is getting too cheesy for me
C'mon, man, you and I both know that joke's no Gouda.
Re:Lets see... (Score:2)
This thread is getting too cheesy for me
C'mon, man, you and I both know that joke's no Gouda.
Piff. You must be American.
Re:Lets see... (Score:2)
This thread is getting too cheesy for me
C'mon, man, you and I both know that joke's no Gouda.
Piff. You must be American.
Well, yea! If I were Swiss, my story would be full of holes!
wine & cheese (Score:4, Insightful)
Both wine and cheese are aged in caves --
I remember seeing a tv show where they were carving under some place in california for a winery to have some long-term storage. I could see a geologist being useful in those sorts of projects.
Re:Lets see... (Score:3, Funny)
...90% of what I know by heart came from doing it and being a nerd, the other 10% can be determined via Google.
Holy crap! Google is only 10% of what you know by heart? I bow to thee, oh mighty god of knowledge!
Re:Lets see... (Score:2)
From my experience, the degree doesn't do much but get you in the door for the interview in IT...90% of what I know by heart came from doing it and being a nerd, the other 10% can be determined via Google.
That's true for pretty much all fields of work. For starting positions companies look for fresh graduates, who have a degree (and with that a certain amount of background knowledge) in whatever field they need. For higher positions they look for people with experience in that field of work - having the degree is usually implied as without the degree you wouldn't be able to get a job or experience.
And of course that degree takes like four years of study. After that you have had 18+ years of work, which definitely amounts to much more than a degree can ever contain. Not to mention the general life experience that you gain by simply living in this world.
Also I must add, this degree thing doesn't mean college/university degree. It can also be a welders certificate from a vocational school, that's also a great starting point to get a job. And after welding for two decades, assuming you're good in your work, you can make quite a decent amount of money.
Re:Lets see... (Score:2)
"From my experience, the degree doesn't do much but get you in the door"
Almost anybody would tell you that a degree only "got them in the door", and that the vast majority of their professional knowledge comes from experience. But that doesn't diminish the the value of a degree one iota. Getting in the door is by far the absolute hardest part of any career. The barriers are tremendous. A degree is the obvious and easiest way to help you get over that hump.
People who say "a degree only ..." are trying to highlight their own skill and personal fortitude, and most people without an ivy league education enjoy doing that to some degree. (Myself included.) But it's harmful to younger adults contemplating a degree. The best you thing to tell other people is simply, "get the degree". Maybe reassure them that a cheaper, state school is a-okay. Anything else just provides excuses to people; excuses which will cost them dearly later in life.
Social and emotional education on the other hand.. (Score:1, Interesting)
Nobody's got any of that nowadays.
Nobody's forced to get along in big families and small towns anymore, and school hasn't picked up on those subjects, as if they were somehow "lesser" than math or physics.
And then we're surprised we end up in a dog-eat-dog society with monsters like Goldman Sachs and Monsanto.
Re:Social and emotional education on the other han (Score:2)
Or rather, would feel sorry for you, if you weren't such a egocentric asshat.
education schmeducation (Score:5, Interesting)
Six siblings: 1 doctor MD brother, 2 Ph.D. sisters (in maths and English lit), 2 nurse/RN sisters, one with college degree only. Me? "only" an MA in biophysics here since I bailed on the PhD program to do technology. It is fair to say that our family all got hit pretty hard by the education bug. Our Mom didn't complete college so we learned to respect hard work outside of academia. Compared to degrees, persistence and good direction is what counts in life. Thanks Mom!
Re:education schmeducation (Score:3)
My sister took a few college courses. (Notice I didn't say "completed" or "passed".) Her high school diploma is of the "if we give you this piece of paper and let you wear a gown in June, do you promise to never come back?" variety.
I have a BS in chemistry and math and am close to finishing a Masters in IT with a concentration in mathematics and computation.
I am married but have no kids. She is married and has three girls--11, 9, and 7. The household runs, and the kids are healthy and happy. I can operate on a higher level than my sister when it comes to the classroom and written tests, but I harbor no illusions how my 'book learning' compares to what she has learned raising 3 girls in the age of cell phones and facebook.
On a different note amongst my in-laws, my father-law and my wife's 2 siblings are all chemical engineering PhDs. My mother-in-law was one of the first women to get a BS in computer science and has an MBA from Columbia. On the other hand, my wife left college after 1 semester, yet is generally acknowledged to be the smartest (in terms of raw brain power) of the bunch. She has also been equally successful as her siblings professionally despite the lack of degree.
So, education. What is it good for?
Re:education schmeducation (Score:2)
BSEE and JD for me. Eight biological siblings: Doctor (MD), Biochemist (MS), Mom working (slowly) on a degree in Special Education (hubby is a prison guard), Mom working on (music?) degree (hubby is an engineer, BSME), Mom with no apparent educational aspirations (hubby is working on a DDS), Ditto (hubby is an AF F-16 mechanic, but not planning to be career military), CS student (mathematically briliant but a little anti-social with Asperger's), and youngest applying to the Police Academy. I also have four adopted siblings. One is kind of drifting slowly into college (but has some learning difficulties and may have picked up her birth mother's schizophrenia), the other three are still in primary schools.
I need another poll option: (o) About on par with my older and next-younger brother, significantly more than my next three sisters, but about on par with their husbands, which is statistically significant from a socioeconomic standpoint, younger siblings are still more-or-less in pre-career stages of life and so are not yet statistically useful.
Musings from an oldest child (Score:5, Interesting)
Grew up hearing about how education is indispensable from my two first-gen college-educated parents. Went through high school with very little effort, graduated near the top of my class, got a degree in physics at a well-known university. But here I am, late 20's, with a tenuous job as a research associate, not knowing whether I'll still have a job next year given the uncertainty with federal research funding.
Younger sister on the other hand (currently in her early 20's), struggled a bit in high school, dropped out of college after freshman year, to the utter dismay of my parents. She got a job washing dishes and worked her way up, now works for a farmers market delivering produce to local restaurants. She earns almost as much as I do now, and without the uncertainty that the {Republicans | Democrats} will legislate her out of a job next year over the latest government spending fight. It's a pretty safe bet that 10 years from now people will still be eating vegetables.
In theory my career opportunities and income should exceed hers in the years ahead, but I say that with a whole lot less confidence than I did a couple years ago.
Re:Musings from an oldest child (Score:2)
Perhaps they didn't tell you, but you can look for another job using your degree and experience as reference.
Re:Musings from an oldest child (Score:1)
Yeah, totally. Giving money to very poor people to help them survive is really the same thing as paying researchers to generate new knowledge.
Re:Musings from an oldest child (Score:5, Insightful)
If you say so. I'm not sure you quite have a grasp of what welfare is, but if you honestly don't support funding scientific research, I really hope you don't come down with, say, Tourette syndrome or Parkinson's disease. But at least in your alternate reality you can rest assured that capitalism will prevail and the free market will rush to assist you in your moment of need.
Re:Musings from an oldest child (Score:2)
If you say so. I'm not sure you quite have a grasp of what welfare is, but if you honestly don't support funding scientific research, I really hope you don't come down with, say, Tourette syndrome or Parkinson's disease. But at least in your alternate reality you can rest assured that capitalism will prevail and the free market will rush to assist you in your moment of need.
From Dictionary.com:
welfare
/welfe()r/
Noun:
1) The health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.
2) Statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need.
Sounds like welfare to me. Of course, I subscribe to the school of thought that anything advancing humanity's understanding of the natural world does indeed promote the physical and material well-being of the society in general. YMMV.
Note that the concept of "welfare" is really only a "bad thing" if you're one of those narcissistic jackasses who thinks the whole world exists for you and you alone to profit from.
Re:Musings from an oldest child (Score:2)
I used to be a defense contractor (Score:2)
It's like welfare, only it pays better, and it's a lot more fun, but you're still not doing anything actually good for the world.
Yes, there are defense contracting projects that develop cool technology that's useful for everybody. But far more of them are taking scientists and engineers who could be developing cool technology that's useful for everybody, and diverts them to making uncool technology that's bad for everybody, or at best is neutral. Some of the work I did helped the military spend less money on bureaucracy, which I guess is good. The big air traffic control project could have been good for everybody, but we were the lucky contractors who lost the big project (IBM were the poor suckers who won; the procurement didn't have realistic goals but did have unrealistic development methodologies, and one good thing that came out of it was everybody realized we needed better project development methods.)
Re:I used to be a defense contractor (Score:2)
Re:Musings from an oldest child (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyway, to play along I was the smart one - measured off the scale as a tot, before finding my level in university. Now I'm a junior academic teaching mechatronics and researching UAVs at a major school. My brother has an anxiety disorder and my sister has a brain chemistry disorder - they work as a lumber yard manager and an executive assistant respectively. Depressed and overweight, with barely functional families, it makes family gatherings awkward. I was always marked for success, but I'm saddened that their illnesses stopped them from leading the happy lives they deserve.
Re:Musings from an oldest child (Score:1)
Re:Musings from an oldest child (Score:2)
Is it such a wonder that no one gives a shit about funding science anymore?
If it makes you feel any better, no one who could afford to fund sciences ever cared about funding sciences that are un-profitable.
Why do you think we haven't gone back to the moon in 50 years? No money in it.
College wasn't big enough for us (Score:4, Interesting)
My other brother got a degree in mechanical engineering and has never used it, unless you consider fixing cars to be using it. OK, he does work with a FIRST robotics team, so that counts for something.
My sister had an interesting experience - she was taking a sculpture class as a 40-year-old housewife, and noticed that the other students were watching her instead of the teacher. So she started her own sculpture school and is doing well.
Re:College wasn't big enough for us (Score:2)
I was a Biochem. major....and have never worked a day in my life doing anything related to biochemistry....I kinda fell into IT in the early 90s.....
I only know one friend, that was a civil engineer major, that works as....a civil engineer.
Re:College wasn't big enough for us (Score:3)
I've noticed that most of my friends....self included, really have never much used their college degrees in their careers.
I was a Biochem. major....and have never worked a day in my life doing anything related to biochemistry....I kinda fell into IT in the early 90s.....
I only know one friend, that was a civil engineer major, that works as....a civil engineer.
I've studied Computing for two years, then Psychology for several years, and I've followed courses in law and theology. What I found interesting is that each kind of study has its own method of studying and completely different from what I thought before I did those studies. Psychology - what I learned from it is to doubt everything - nothing is for granted. Law is a lot of hard work, and much less clear than what it appears.
You may not use the study in your job, but it molds you and it makes that you approach your current job and you life differently than someone else. That makes it maybe not so efficient, but still very useful.
Re:College wasn't big enough for us (Score:3)
I was self taught in electronics also. I supplimented that with training in the Navy. Instead of a college degree, I have my Journeyman ISCET certification. It is recognized by most employers as a degree, but without the student loan.
http://www.iscet.org/ [iscet.org]
Re:College wasn't big enough for us (Score:3)
Re:College wasn't big enough for us (Score:2)
too young to compare (Score:1)
formal? (Score:2)
Re:formal? (Score:2)
I learned a lot of the theoretical parts of CS in college, along with some mathematical tools (linear algebra, discrete math, etc.) which have been useful at various times. Sure, I could've self-taught, but afaict most people (including me) don't really self-teach the mathematical underpinnings of CS. Now if you mean programming skill, I agree university isn't where you usually pick that up.
marketing surveys now? (Score:2)
Re:marketing surveys now? (Score:2)
Come on /., you're doing a marketing survey?
Welcome to /.. You must be new here.
The polls have been marketing surveys for a long time. "How Do You Participate In Black Friday?" "Are you better off than you were four years ago?" "How Long Is Your Morning Commute?" "I found my current job through" "I reach my workplace, primarily/typically, by" "My primary phone runs" etc.
This is not a recent development.
Re:marketing surveys now? (Score:2)
My Generation: The Same; The Next Generation: Not (Score:4, Interesting)
My younger brother and I both have bachelor's degrees from the University of California system. I also took some post-graduate classes, but not towards a master's degree. We both have had successful careers. I retired early. My brother is semi-retired, investing in residential housing and occasionally working as a real estate agent.
The next generation is different. My brother had no children. I have a son and a daughter. My son stopped his college education, lacking only 3-6 units to complete his bachelor's degree. He is in the insurance industry and has been laid-off more than once; when he is working, he earns a very good income. My daughter has two bachelor's degrees (journalism and education) and a master's degree; she has been thinking of getting a doctorate. She has become a recognized authority on the use of technology in adult education and teaches undergraduate courses in that subject at a university. She too earns a good income.
My brother has a doctorate ... (Score:2)
... but his doctorate is in macroeconomics, so it doesn't count.
Most of macroeconomic theory is junk science anyway. If you are really interested in macroeconomics, you should study statistics, economic history, political science etc. instead. Of course he got a good share of that too, but not enough to do a doctor in my opinion.
My sister went to college for two years studying design but got no degree.
I have a Master's degree in Computer and Systems Sciences.
Therefore, I do consider myself to have better formal education than my siblings. Better than the average of the two of them, anyway.
Re:My brother has a doctorate ... (Score:1)
Re:My brother has a doctorate ... (Score:2)
No, I admit everything, otherwise I would not post.
Of course I am jealous of him having a doctorate. I am also jealous of him going to Berkeley to study, and of the inflated salary that his degree has given him.
I could also admit that I have always thought of him as somewhat of a buffoon. I have read a few of the papers that my brother have produced, and have concluded that it is of no consequence.
I have thought of his field of study as being mostly junk even before he expressed an interest in it.
Events in recent years and the macroeconomic community's failure to predict the economic downturn have only reinforced my belief in the field as junk science. ("Hey, let's remove banks from our model of the economy and the model will work!")
Family of Seven Siblings (Score:2)
I voted the same as my siblings. I come from a family of seven siblings, and I am the youngest. 4 of us have got a university degree, and three only finished highschool.
The amazing part though is that my mum was illiterate and my dad has never has formal schooling (friends in the army taught him to read and write). They both valued education so much that sacrificed a lot for us to go to good schools.
That's telling.. (Score:1)
"Compared to my siblings, I'm an only child"
Sounds like someone got locked in the basement as a child...
I'm spoiled... (Score:2)
... rotten, selfish, etc. according to my queen and king ants. :P
Never finished school... (Score:3, Insightful)
Never finished school, but have about 32 hours of mathematics and physics and other general classes towards a BS in Physics. IMHO, the formal education makes no difference unless the experience of obtaining it creates the ability to think. Of all the PhD mathematicians and physicists, the MBAs and MScs and others with whom I've worked in the last 35 years in IT, the very best were the ones who learned how to think really well however they were educated. The worst sometimes had more yardage on their transcripts, but saw it only as a ticket to punch for a high paying job. They were the ones who were really adept at getting a job, putting on a good show while at work, getting everyone else to solve the really difficult aspects of their work and moving on to greener pastures when they got cornered with their own mediocrity.
The one thing I have observed is that higher education and popular culture in the US is progressively rewarding the latter behavior. Geek, nerd and other perjorative appellations clearly reflect what current popular culture thinks of the deep thinkers. Instead, we reward a culture that glorifies gangsta rapper drug lords and image-without-substance from Hollister and Abercrombe & Fitch.
clod (Score:1)
I'm an only child, you insensitive clod
Another oldest here (Score:2)
As far as the worth of the degrees it is very mixed. I didn't go to college right out of high school and instead got a career going. I got a good job at a large company and at one point was the youngest person on a 30 person team and I was the supervisor. I was working on my degree and did earn it while there. Since then I've moved to a much smaller company that treats employees well and having a degree was a requirement. Since it is an accounting firm most of the people I deal with have degrees and many have Masters.
My sister used to have a job at a call center for a cell phone provider and made remarkable good money to just answer calls. The cell provider closed that call center and now she is looking for another job. She is finding that no call center pays even close to what she made for someone with her lack of education and skills.
My brother has never really done well at all. Local truck driver and currently handles truck routing. Since we don't get along I really don't know what he makes. Yet talking with my parents he can barely afford his small apartment and used car payment.
Based off of comments from my parents when I was hourly and had a couple years of overtime and lots of on-call work I ended up making somewhere between 3 and 4 times what my brother and sister made combined. Before she got laid off I made a base salary of roughly what they earned added together.
In the end it comes down to education and drive is the best foundation for success. Drive by itself can result in great rewards but those people are the outliers. Lack of education and drive results in very little.
Re:Another oldest here (Score:2)
Same here....
Neither of my parents went to college. My mother went to Nursing school and my father finished high-school. They both pushed me to go to university.
I have a BS in Business Admin, a BS in Comp Sci, and a MS in IT Management. I'm a senior network design/architect/engineer for a large biotech company, making a good salary.
My first sister, just over a year younger, has a BS in Business and used to work at a call center for a resort company. This was great as she was able to get resort discounts for us. She was always their top performer and consistently maxed out her salary+commission. They moved the call center and laid everyone off. She went back to university under job retraining and took accounting. She now works as an accountant for a small company.
My second sister, about 4 years younger, has a diploma in interior design (not decorating, it's closer to being an architect). She found work at a company producing online training material. She was always interested in web page design and ecommerce and found a job at a medium size company as an ecommerce designer, and then grew into a marketing manager position.
I would say that we have all done well in our own ways. We have all had similar education. I "pulled ahead" recently, having just finished a masters degree.
I agree that it comes down to education and drive. That drive is even more powerful if it is something that you like doing.
Comparison of me vs my brother (Score:3)
He graduated college. I dropped out of high school and went the self-education route. He hates his job. I love my job and earn 3 times as much while working 60% the hours.
We are very different people and there's no way I could have finished a degree (I wanted to, but I'm simply miserable in a formal schooling environment; in retrospect I'm very glad I dropped out and I wish I had done so sooner; it was very bad for my mental health); he would have not had the skills to get by at all without college. YMMV. Do what's right for your own situation.
Re:Comparison of me vs my brother (Score:2)
Re:Comparison of me vs my brother (Score:2)
Interesting.
Care to mention what your job is?
Re:Comparison of me vs my brother (Score:2)
Software dev these days; I spent a long time as a network admin before.
age related, isn't it? (Score:2)
Re:age related, isn't it? (Score:2)
What level is appropriate formal education? (Score:1)
Similar to one, more than others (Score:2)
My twin brother and I are both college graduates, with additional training on top of our Bachelor's degrees. He is a chemist, and I am in IT.
Both my sister and younger brother dropped out of high school, as both of our parents did when they were younger. To this day, we don't know we got the drive to educate ourselves, but we are grateful we have it. I am trying to pass it on to my two kids. They know that they are expected to do their best in school, and to go on to college.
My sibs and I (Score:2)
Me - eldest - degree in Agricultural Business Management, then an MSc in Computer Science (didn't want to admit I was a geek at first, thought I'd want to take over the family business one day - see below). I now work in the financial industry, having previously risen to the dizzy heights of Systems Manager at a large University in London after 17 years of broadly-enjoyable slog.
My sister - education degree. Taught for 10+ years, was getting ready to take over as headmistress, then our Dad died. Once everything settled down, she took over as manager of the family farm (a chunk of arable land, quite large-scale by UK standards, but not a full-blown agri-business type thing), a role that she has totally made her own, despite the lack of any relevant training (other than years of walking the fields with Dad, as a then-bored observer).
Brother 1 - too many degrees started for me to remember the details. I think he finished one of them. He now owns a hedge fund and works for a video production company and lives in splendid style in Whistler.
Brother 2, much younger, still at Uni, reading Earth Sciences at Durham, having dropped out of another University before the course even started. Who knows where he'll end up. Lives to travel at the moment.
how to define "more" (Score:1)
My sister has a BS and MS. I have a BS... but I took the same amount of time to earn that BS as she did her BS and MS. So we spent the same amount of time in school.... which one of us has more education?
More importantly, Compared to my siblings ... (Score:1)
Need check boxes not radio buttons (Score:1)
Average, I think... (Score:2)
Me: High school dropout with GED, BSEE, year of unfinished master's (couldn't stand the though to another year to jump through all the bogus thesis hoops). I work as a design engineer, and do pretty good at it.
Older Brother: Finished HS (was a good warning sign for me that it could destroy enthusiasm spending 4 years with burnouts), 6 years of loans to get a Journalism and Broadcasting degree that he never really wanted in the first place. Now he's a house husband...
Much younger half-Sister: Just finishing here AA, which was a struggle for her. Sadly she took after her mother and has to work very hard for everything she learns (life lessons included).
5 Boys (Score:2)
I'm the oldest of 5 boys and I have the least amount of (formal) education. FYI, there is a 16 year gap between me and my youngest brother.
1) Me: College dropout (4yr university (comp sci) - attended for 1.5yrs) Job: Software developer.
2) Next: Electrical Engineer (4yr university). Job: Works for an electric power company (utility).
3) Next: BA Marketing (attended probably 4 different 4yr universities and changed majors 4 times over a 14yr time span). Job: PR/Communications director for an affluent (redundant?) country club.
4) Next: BS Anthropology (4yr university). Job: A naval officer on an aircraft carrier.
5) Next: Finishing AA in Restaurant & Hotel Management (2yr community college) this semester. Job: Grocery store (non-managerial).
But I make the most money, so I win right? :P
I have less, but it doesn't mean much (Score:2)
Overeducated. (Score:2)
What's substantially more or less?
I have a BA, a law degree (JD), and a master's degree (LLM).
My sister has a BA, two master's degrees (MA and M.Ed.) and a PhD.
So I have ~4.5 years of post-BA, and my sister has 6-7. Is that substantially more? We both have more education than about 95% of the public....
I'm one of the "less" guys (Score:2)
My sister went to University and graduated. I didn't. But then again, I have a job and she doesn't.
I wouldn't mind getting a degree some day, but all in all I still prefer my situation to hers.
More, but does it matter? (Score:2)
I have a B.S. in resource management (land management, user impacts, etc) I've been a Unix/Linux admin since the kernel 1.x days. While I certainly did learn many skills while in school, the degree itself has had virtually no direct application in my actual work. I'm addicted to learning on my own so it doesn't really matter what my formal education was. Would I have gotten interviews and job offers without the degree? Probably not, but you need something to get past the HR types. Sadly, that's what the value of a degree has been reduced to in many situations.
On the other hand, my siblings have nothing beyond a H.S. diploma and have struggled a bit financially.
Less Education, Doing "better" (Score:2)
I have a younger sister. She went through college and is currently a Registered Nurse (RN) working at a well respected hospital here in California. I took a couple of semesters of community college and have been working in IT since I was 18. Other than an ROP class in Novell Netware and an MCP for Windows Server 2000 I do not have any formalized computer training.
I am currently making six figures, getting five figure yearly bonuses. I help run IT Operations and am actively engaged with the executive suite to determine the strategic IT direction for a billion dollar a year corporation. I am still waiting to hit the ceiling where my lack of a degree holds me back, but have not got there yet. Having said that, I have been extremely lucky and combined that with a disciplined work ethic and a true passion for what I do. I am lucky enough to have turned a hobby into a career and am still interested in the field.
I say I was lucky because I started in the mid-90s. A lack of formalized education and training was not a real hindrance and the ability to get the job done was enough to keep myself employed. I also had good bosses who were more like mentors in the traditional master / apprentice way. They schooled me in the class room of the real world. In this day and age, the whole "I have a computer at home and know how it works." is not enough to get that first job. There are too many paper professionals and the technology is too complex. I think it's really difficult, if not impossible to be a generalist in a corporate setting anymore. People are specialized. They are either DBAs, network guys, sysadmins, business analysts, etc. On the other end of the spectrum, you have MBAs and people who took CS classes in college who are now in charge of determining strategy, yet they lack the hands on understanding of how the tech works because they have never been in the trenches.
But I digress. I am doing well, but I don't recommend doing it my way. I got lucky, for values where lucky equals "Being prepared to excel when the opportunity presents itself." But those opportunities are fewer and further between now.
George Thorogood (Score:2)
But, he's got a haircut, and he's got a real job
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:3)
Yep, you know the old saying:
"He who dies with the most stuff....wins"
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:2)
Now is the time when someone would jump in and say she is doing something she loves and money isn't everything, but she is starting to second-guess her choice of studies. 14th century Japanese literature doesn't exactly have a wide range of career possibilities and several people calling you the same day you post your resume to Careerbuilder. She doesn't seem to like being a teacher, which would be pretty much her only real career path unless she did plain old language translation. 2 years of living abroad and 6 years of school and she isn't sure what she wants to do with her life. I don't love my job (company is making terrible choices), but I do love the industry, the technology, and the career possibilities available.
Probably the only saving grace is that she got a pile of scholarships when she was in school in the US, and now she is doing her studies in Canada, where education has reasonable costs. So she doesn't have piles and piles of debt. I do love my sister but I hope my children don't drift aimlessly like she seems to be doing.
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:2)
When I hear someone studying nth century country literature, I can only think of someone studying modern "literature". Is someone thinking they would draw significant judgments about us as a society from the Harry Potter novels, or however many Shades of Grey, or Girls with Dragon Tattoos?
When you look at "stuff that survives" over time, it's generally the stuff that existed in the highest quantities, or was of the highest quality. Is a future student of historical documents going to dig through mountains of books and arrive at the conclusion that J.K. Rowling was the literary voice of our generation? How much value is that going to add to the 27th century's knowledge of us?
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:2)
Sorry about replying to myself, but I just realized that if someone from the 27th century studied our current literature, they would probably come to the conclusion that we're a shallow, materialistic, vapid society. And they'd be dead-on accurate.
So good luck to your sister, and I hope she finds a good job.
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:2)
Not necessarily. What are the Canterbury Tales about, or the Scottish Play ? Plain everyday life and murder. Yet, these works survived.
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:2)
A relative of mine went back to school to become a vet. Along the way she discovered she didn't really want to spend her days dealing with pet owners for $50k/yr, so she's back to programming. The costs, both in actual money and opportunity were absolutely staggering and she has nothing to show for it except some animal medical knowledge that's fading away due to lack of use.
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:2)
Germany must have a lot of engineers though. It's known for making good engineers at least. As a result maybe pay for engineers is a bit lower in Germany than it might be in other countries? I don't actually know the answer, I'm genuinely asking.
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:2)
Well, that's one game. Another is "he (or she) who dies with the most offspring, wins." Which has been around a lot longer as a game.
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:2)
He (or she) who dies with the most descendants, wins.
FTFY.
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:2)
That works.
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:2)
Nah....usually the more kids you have...the LESS fun stuff you can afford...and therefore, you lose.
That's one reason I've never really wanted kids...I don't make enough to have kids AND still get all the stuff I want and do the things I do...
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:1)
Re:But she's more successful than me... (Score:3)
I have more formal education, but she's arguably more successful than me, so no tallies in the win column for education there.
More education lead to more opportunities for me. Meanwhile my college dropout brothers haven't fared very well, further, two hold what you may consider extreme 'ignorant' political views of the right. Disturbing to see that side of society, worse to see it in your own family. Where do they fill their heads with such garbage -- why, they actively seek it out, sort of how the hungry brownshirts of Germany sought out more reassurance that their leader was on the right path ...
Re:Three plus one (Score:3)