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Review: 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon' 169

Posted by JonKatz from the -tech-culture-on-Sundays- dept.
First of all, Merry Christmas Eve. Can't think of a better place to be. As for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, round up all the women and teenaged girls you know who thought Charlie's Angels was awesome and take them to see the real thing, perhaps the greatest and most beautiful kung fu movie ever made. "Crouching Tiger" makes The Matrix's martial-arts choreography seem primitive.

You probably won't ever see a better kung-fu movie than Ang Lee's Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, or a more original, mournful or beautiful cinematic vision in this movie-crowded season.

Perhaps it's more accurate to call it an artful collaboration -- part martial-arts spirituality, Western epic and Broadway musical -- between Lee, actors Chow Yun Fat and Michelle Yeoh, the musician Yo-Yo Ma and mythical combat choreographer Yuen Wo-Ping, who designed the dance-like scenes in The Matrix and sparked a revival of martial arts as spiritual and cinematic ballet.

The story unfolds in China in the time of Confucius, centering on the loss and search for a magical 400-year-old sword called Green Destiny. Its theft sets off a complex interaction between a sword-wielding warrior, his ally and a bandit (who falls in love with a desert thief, another beautifully shot sequence); the latter two happen to be women. So does their common nemesis, a creepy and lethal outcast right out of the witches gathering in "Hamlet" named Jade Fox.

Brilliantly bizarre and sometimes astonishingly beautiful, the movie takes martial arts far beyond the eerily-choreographed levels of The Matrix. From Walker, Texas Ranger to Jackie Chan to Charlie's Angels, martial arts is replacing the fist, .9mm and taser as popular culture's favorite form of combat. In fact, kung fu offers creative moviemakers a lot of possibilities: it has a richer history, and comes from deeper traditions than any of those other weapons.

But no one has yet portrayed it in this way. "Crouching Tiger" is gravity-defying: the fighters soar over rooftops, somersault around rooms, sail through trees and walls, in and out of rivers and lakes.

It's closer to the more spiritual sagas of earlier Hong Kong movies than to the popular and very funny Chan series. It feels very modern, though. It's unusual to see a movie like this featuring women in such strong and distinctly different roles -- but it also honors traditions of loyalty, learning and responsibility. In an era when the cultural gap between teachers and students has probably never been wider, this movie reflects a time and a culture when their bonds were unshakeable. Making money or being popular is the last thing on these warrior's minds, good or evil. They are obsessed with honor, growth and vengeance. In "Crouching Tiger," students love, even venerate their teachers and will sacrifice their own lives for their teachers' approval and honor.

Cellis Yo-Yo Ma's haunting score gives "Crouching Tiger" an even more brooding and enchanting quality. Yet for all its gravity and style, "Crouching Tiger" also has a sense of humor. It takes a skilled and supremely confident filmaker to pull off a quite literally dazzling movie like this.
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Review: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

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  • Re:quality of the wirework? Um, *sigh* (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    to all these people complaining about the wirework: come on!! "laws of gravity" - gimme a break. this isn't supposed to be super-realistic. It's magical! Suspend your disbelief and enjoy it rather than grumbling "oh, *that* can't happen!" If it was supposed to be strictly realistic, then they would not have used wires.
  • Yup, Ray Park [imdb.com] was his name. He also did the fight scenes for sleepy hollow, as well as toad in X-Men.

  • And some more...

    Project A, part II IMPO, Jackie Chan's best work. Some of the best fight sequences, some of the insane stuntwork (running down a 5 story bamboo scaffold while it's falling!), and some of the funniest comedy sequences. Has a great sendup of the "two guys handcuffed wrist-to-wrist" cinematic gag.

    Drunken Master. No, not Legend of the Drunken Master. This one has almost no production values aside from the martial arts, but it's amazing to see the capabilities of a young Jackie Chan.

    Once Upon A Time In China 1 - 3. The latter ones are a different director, but they're amazing examples of wire-fu. #5 deserves a mention simply because it's so over-the-top, it's [un]intentionally funny.

    By the Sword. Not asian martial arts, but a good martial plot instead.

  • "Hard Boiled" (1993): This is what most of us video junkies would call, at a minimum, "John Woo's greatest movie ever". Take the coreographed gun battles from some of his US movies "MI:2" "Hard Target" and "Face Off", combine them and multiply by 15, then add Chow Yun Fat. A masterpeice that includes a 45 minute shootout in a hospital that probably cost him a fortune to do. If, somehow this is taken, then try his classic breakthrough "A Better Tommorrow". Watch it, then get the DVD.

    I'd also recommend "The Killer".. its plotline is a bit more solid than HB, though it is definitely lower-key.. And if you want a classic HK loyalty/betrayal study (which, besides the dual pistols, is John Woo's trademark), check out "Bullet In The Head".. Excellent film and DVD, though hardcore violent ballet junkies will be disappointed.

    BTW, Check out Ringo Lam's work as well... "City on Fire" is an awesome film which is best known in the States as having inspired "Reservoir Dogs".. Also get the DVD of "Full Contact".. Excellent..

    Gotta love HK movies.. Subtitles for the chicks, action for the guys ;) ;)

    Your Working Boy,
  • Previously, kungfu films directed by Tsui Hark, like initial series of Kung Fu Master, are my 'standard reference'. But they're nothing compares to CTHD.
    Unfortunately, local subtitling here is very bad. I believe it was because CTHD uses 'unpopular' Chinese dialect and not using English like other popular Hong-Kong made kungfu films.
    -- andika
  • I don't agree. Before CTHD, presentation style is different, like for 'gin-kang' (flying?), usually accompanied by special effect sounds. In CTHD, there are no such 'disturbing' sounds. But I prefer this style much better. -- andika
  • I am the only who didn't like the movie?

    I thought the story line, followed typical chinese movie(nothing special), revenge for a master/wife/husband death + master teaching his students and etc.

    Action, well, in what planet where they filming this, why don't they just fly all the time, and skip the walking bullshit all together.

    By the way, I love kung fu movies, just not as unrealistic as this.

    You can't even compare this to Matrix. Matrix was original, where effects where just incredible and somewhat believible.
  • It was suppose to be fantasy - the wire work was exaggerated to provide mythic, dreamlike motions - much like dance. The choreogropher is THE wire work guy, so he could definitely pull off anything he wanted.
  • That's a typo... the official list has January 22nd instead of Jan 12th, which is when the movie is _really_ opening in those cities. You can tell since the Jan 22nd list is _before_ the Jan 19th list, and I know Austin's showing it starting Jan 12th.
  • Er... there was extensive "wire-fu" in Romeo Must Die.
  • First of all, Jackie Chan usually doesn't do wire-fu work. And CTHD is _not_ just about the action sequences. If you think that, you obviously haven't read any of the reviews very carefully. What makes CTHD unique is a _real_ plot that combines romance, mysticism, honor, loyalty, etc.
  • Bandwidth agnostic versions:

    http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony/crouching_tig er _hidden_dragon/
  • I am aware that Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon wasn't her first movie, but I was the first movie released with her in it. The Road Home was just released Dec 10th, were as Crouching Tiger was released in the summer. (Hong Kong)

    I find the Hong Kong Movie Database to be a better resource...check http://www.hkmdb.com [hkmdb.com]
  • ...you failed to even mention the real star of this movie...Zhang ZiYi. Zhang ZiYi has, by far, the most screen time, does most of the fighting, and the best acting in this film. Yet this is her first movie performance. (Can she get better than this???) This 19 year old has the beauty of Gong Li and can kick but with the rest of them.

    The reason why Mr Katz, and every other critic, failed to recognize this, is because they're too busy paying attention to the performace of the well established actors to notice the new guy.

    I had the rare treat of accidently getting sold tickets online to see this film on Metreon's IMAX screen Thursday at midnight. When I noticed there was no line, I asked an attendent and he said the tickets were sold to me by accident. I complained with the manager and he let me and 2 friends watch the movie in an IMAX theater alone, while the two Sony engineers were doing a dry run to see how it would look, since the movie wasn't designed for IMAX. A whole IMAX theater to ourselves...WOW. It had some issues, like slightly being curved along the outer edges, but the picture was so big we didn't notice once the film started. Plus we got to the the Final Fantasy Trailer in IMAX as well. A real treat.

  • Thanks! I *did* mean .357, and I picked that up right after I pressed Submit, naturally. But perhaps subconsciously I was thinking of one of the ones you mentioned. Yeah, that's it... ;)
  • This is a bit amusing. I live in Denmark, where all foreign-language movies are subtitled. In fact, if they speak any language but Danish, it's subtitled.


    This is why it is so funny to watch German television, where everything is dubbed. You should really hear James Bond speak German. ;)


    And CNN! Ha ha ha. They actually dub non-English interviews. Stupid.

  • It probably won't go into wide release unless it takes the Best Picture Academy Award. CTHD is in Mandarin with English subtitles. Very few US theatres will touch that kind of a movie assuming that the audience would be too small. The sad thing is that they are probably correct.

    I expect this movie to be dubbed and re-released in the state in a few years. Bah! If you live near Vancouver, British Columbia and it isn't offered near you (Seattle?) come up and see it at the Park Theatre. But come early, the line ups are long and I'm not sure if they take American Express.
  • QT did not do "Desperado."
    Both El Mariachi and Desperado were written and directed by Robert Rodriguez.

    Pope

    Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
  • If you can at all track down "The Fate of Lee Khan," direected by King Hu, by all means GET IT.
    I had the chance to see it at Toronto's Royal Cinema recently. They do a Kung Fu Friday every other week or so, and usually bring out the completely obscure titles such as this one.
    It all takes place at an Inn in the desert, with political intrigue as the backdrop. It's from the late 70's (I think) and the fighting is exciting, real and not wire-based. Recommended highly if you're into old school Kung Fu!

    Pope

    Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
  • I saw the movie and I personally (and the other 5 who I saw it with) barely made it to the end.. this movie is one of the worst, if not THE worst movies I have seen this year .. and that includes such letdowns as mission to mars.. Great special effects? Better then the matrix? lol. The matrix was cool, this was just alot of strange jumps and floating around in random directions ..

    oh, for the moderating crowd, this is NOT a troll/flame. I just happen to think the movie sucks.

  • I have both "Hard Boiled" and "The Killer" on DVD (unfortunately i got into it too late to get the criterion versions at a sane price...) and honestly i prefer "The Killer" to "Hard Boiled." It has several beautful sequences, both of the violent variety, and some that are more subdued. This is not to discount "Hard Boiled" as anything less than a great film, but it just didn't impress me quite as much.

    anybody thinking of checking out what hong kong action is all about hould see those two films

  • You are totally missing my point. There are no camera angles that are not Western influenced, because the camera is a Western invention. That is, without Western influence, there would be zero kung fu movies. Or movies period.

    Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is up to you. Whether the invention of the camera, and by extension enabling the kung fu movie, makes Western influence less than the pervasive evil that everybody seems to think it is, is also up to you.

    Me, I'm going to go watch Seven Samurai and enjoy Kurosawa's contribution to cinema. Even though he was using evil Western devices to make it.
  • Original!=good. Original!=bad. Originality is orthogonal to quality. A really really good retelling of a story can be at least as enjoyable as the original story. STORIES like CTHD have been around for 2000 years, but that doesn't detract from their appeal or quality.

    As for your comments about "western influenced" camera angles, I think it's pretty silly, as "westerners" invented the bloody camera. (Yes, I know that eastern cultures came up with a bunch of interesting technology while my ancestors were still picking lice out of each other's hair, but I'm pretty damn sure that the movie camera wasn't among them.)
  • I feel sorry for everyone here. This movie is not that original if you've kept up with Hong Kong cinema. This is a "classic" storyline with choreography that isn't that great compared to some other HK classics. Films like this have been around for 20 years.

    What I especially disliked are the western influenced camera angles that press you right up against the action. Thank goodness they only did that for the first half of the movie and the action sequences got far better towards the later parts of the movie.

  • There were no witches in 'Hamlet', you're probably thinking of 'MacBeth'

    Shakespere didn't write 'Hamlet' or 'The Scottish Play', you're probably thinking of Shakespeare. :)
  • Crouching Tiger has a better story, better direction, and better fight scenes than The Matrix. I was glad to see this film was subtitled and not dubbed with poor voice acting. If you liked the Matrix, go see this movie you will love it.
  • Has your brain undergone a seizure?

    It was your typical chinese action movie, complete with wires and impossibly corny jumps across rooftops, running up walls, and rather lame fighting scenes (except for 2 specific fighting scenes which weren't too bad).

    The only thing good I have to say about the movie is that the cinematography was outstanding.

    Other than that it was just another chinese action flick to put next to the millions of others.
  • Ang-Lee is about 40-ish. His boyhood fantasies would have ttaken place in the 1960's.

    Jackie Chan has not intellectually or stylistically influenced the content of CTHD.

    You don't know as much as you think you do.
  • Its Christmas and responsible people have better things to do than moderate Slashdot.
  • >Unfortunately, local subtitling here is very
    > bad. I believe it was because CTHD
    > uses 'unpopular' Chinese dialect and not using
    > English like other popular Hong-Kong made
    > kungfu films

    Unpopular? It's Mandarin, the common tongue of the PRC. Almost all mainland Chinese and Taiwanese speak it. That's over one billion people. HK movies are done in Cantonese, 'cause that's what is spoken in HK, but Cantonese is the minority, no Mandarin.

    dave
  • (completely off topic, but...) Its Mandarin, and imho, its not _that_ hard to learn. I actually do it to relieve stress ;-) At CMU, I learned basically a 4 year old's vocabulary in 3 months. As long as you practice ~4 hours a day, conversation comes easy after a while. Personally, I believe it is so easy because its not a romantic language (and thus, you don't start messing up one region's rules with another). A good place to start learning is zhongwen.com [zhongwen.com] Writing characters is also fun...but it take PRACTICE! If you want to learn how to write a character correctly, be prepared to do it at least a couple hundred times. ;-) zai2 jian4! (i hope I got that right ;-)
    --------------------------
  • AHH! Stupid formatting...hope you can still read it :-/
    --------------------------
  • ..."Shanghai Noon" (which was only stupid deliberately and as a form of send-up).

    That pretty much describes every Jacky Chan movie. And while he doesn't do all of his own stunts anymore (after smashing his body for decades, age has definitely taken it's toll), his sense of humor is still worth the price of a ticket.

    As for other movies that have the same hart and soul, look no further than any Kurosawa movie with Toshirô Mifune [imdb.com] (one of my personal favorates).

    ---

  • Somewhere on the official web site is a list of release dates for various cities. I can't go see it until Jan 22 :(

    Code is garbage in garbage out.
    Languge is garbage in, non-sequitor out.
  • Damn, movies play in Buffalo before they make it to Pittsburgh, I really live in a cultural wasteland. We have about six or seven brand new huge stadium seating mega-plexs now but they all run the same ten big movies. If an art or foreign movies plays at all its at a tiny little theater run by the cultural trust and it runs for one week and is gone. The theatres are usually pretty empty too, I've been to many movies on weekend nights here when there where only half a dozen seats filled. Oh well...
  • hey. where did you get the info? i couldnt view the page because it was shocked. can you tell me about pittsburgh pa?

    use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
  • You could try looking on the distributor's site - Tai Seng is the distributor, I think. Still, I don't know if it's possible to get on DVD, and if it *is* a DVD, it might just be subbed in Mandarin.

    Give it a shot, though; let me know if you have any luck.
  • But a small historical correction; Confucius lived during the Zhou dynasty, if memory serves; the movie is set during the Qing dinasty. There's a minor difference of about 2500 years.

  • I think this might be the first time I agree with JonKatz; Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is a great movie. However, I don't know if I'd really classify it as a kung-fu film. Sure, there's fighting in it - very *good* fighting, thanks to Yuen - but kung-fu movies are more than that.

    Don't get me wrong; if you like kung-fu movies, you'll definitely like CTHD, but it's really a bit more arty. I'm generally not a fan of wirework, which this movie is full of, but CTHD pulls it off nicely.

    In closing, I must disagree with Katz on one point: the best kung-fu movie ever is Fist of Legend.
    • flying? jumping 20 feet in the air?
    This is a staple of Chinese period films. In a film set in modern times (for example, the standard Hong Kong police movies that you've seen Jakie Chan in) the fight scenes are slightly more realistic. I think that the general consensus is that the real masters of martial arts lived in medieval times. What better way to show it than by depictions of flight?

    Another staple of Chinese period films is what I can only describe as a wandering plot. Its like they tried to tell three or four stories at once. Good examples of this are _The Bride with White Hair_ and _A Chinese Ghost Story_

    You just have to accept these things in the same way that you have to accept the water droplet thing in anime... ^_^;

  • According to my father, the story of CTHD is merely the fourth in a five-saga series, each saga having multiple volumes, every one written well before 1960 or so (my dad was reading the sagas as a teenager and he was born in 1937). He said the movie took liberties with the story, but it's mostly intact.

    And your final supposition is wrong...

    But that's all I'm gonna say ;)
  • > The film was made in Mandarin. Guess what
    > language the principle actors DIDN'T speak?
    > You guessed it - Mandarin. They were all
    > speaking in a foreign (to them) language!
    > Wow. And I couldn't detect any accents at all
    > (grin).

    Of the four principals, Chow Yun Fat, Michelle Yeoh, and Chang Chen had detectable accents to native speakers (my parents).

    According to my parents, Chang Chen's Mandarin was pretty hard to stomach, as well, although my brother and I had an easier time understanding it (probably because he was speaking slowly and enunciating to an extreme...).

    Their opinion of Zhang Ziyi's Mandarin, however, was that it was downright flawless. Given that she's from Beijing, I wouldn't be surprised if she were a native speaker.
  • And I must agree this movie rocked. It wasn't really what I expected, not having seen any trailers or previews. I just heard watching the local news (Wash DC) that it was a really great and original martial arts movie. So I saw it last night. I was a bit surprised at the narrow list of theaters where it was playing, but thankfully one was close (the joys of being in city) and so we went there and watched it. It was sold out too - a testament to its popularity. This is definitly one for the DVD collection.
  • Sounds like a great movie. I will have to go check it out but I doubt that it will be as good as The Matrix. The Matrix had a great story line, special effects and outcome. There are not many movies that can add up to it.
  • I'm sure the movie is probably great, but I hope it doesn't start another craze of people wanting to learn kung-fu. Learn a martial art that'll do you some good. - overflow (yah yah... I know.. offtopic)
  • There were no witches in 'Hamlet', you're probably thinking of 'MacBeth'
  • Saw it last night. The Matrix was a great movie and it certainly has things that this one does not. They are two different kinds of film. The Matrix was a American SF/action film made with the highest standards. That puts The Matrix up against films like The Phantom Menace and The 6th Day.<P>
    This movie however is a Chinese Martial Arts/Drama. There are no SF concepts in this movie except that people who learn martial-arts get super-abilities. <P>Now, if you want to just limit your comparision to the cheoreography and shooting of action sequences.. maybe we can make some educated statements. I can tell you that during both movies the fighting had me dropping my jaw and going WOW! I was amazed by the fighting last night at least as much as I was while watching the Matrix.
    The problem with this comparision is that no great movie can live by action alone. CTHD focused on people who were not really evil, but who were not really good either. While watching them fight you have an internal debate as to who you actually want to win. You begin to fear that anyone could win... because it means the death of someone else who you care about. I would say that Ang Lee did a better job of making me fear for the character's lives here. <P> I would also say that Michelle Yeoh actually acts in this movie as if it were a drama. She is so full of hope and fear and strength making her character one of the most insteresting female roles I've seen in a long time.

    --
    Be insightful. If you can't be insightful, be informative.
    If you can't be informative, use my name
  • I'm really excited to see this one. The best I've seen up to this point have been Jet Li's older movies (not Leathal Weapon 3! :). If you have a chance, don't miss:

    Tai Chi Master (easily his best)
    Once Upon a Time in China
    Fist Of Legend
    Fong Sai Yuk (funny as hell)
  • crap... it doesn't come to my city til february 16... doesn't that suck...
  • No, the story is set in the Qing dynasty. Check out the pony tails of Chow Yun-Fatt. And he was a Han not a Manchu in the show.
  • Some likes it some don't.

    I think those who do actually understood the story. That's good concidering it is a very traditional chinese story.

    Those who don't many should either learn the language or watch it again and read the story. It's not what they say but what's not said. As corny as that might sound.

    What I personally like about the film is that it is the first of the matrix like film with a proper story. I liked the matrix but it has a few large holes in the story line. This story isn't scientifically correct or what so ever. But it's a fantacy story where magic is real. Where as in the matrix it's quite hard to imagin why the machine would keep any humans alive. For power? No shit that's what nuclear plants are for.

    CTHD is more drama then kung fu so don't compair it to what Jacky Chan can do.. Speaking of which at least none of the people in CTHD farthered illegitmate children.

    I hate jet lag. I should have never gone back here to HK for christmas.. I should sleep so seeya.
  • The best I've seen up to this point have been Jet Li's older movies

    Exactly! "Fist of Legend" rules! Did you notice how many scenes from The Matrix were ripped right out of Fist of Legend? I couldn't believe it! The audacity! I've seen a few more of his older movies, but the names escape me at this time of night...

    -----
    "People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
  • I've just watched the movie yesterday and I think it's very well done. The story, frankly, doesn't quite follow the original novel (I've read the original story and still have the books). The first half of the movie was quite faithful to the novel...but the 2nd half...was pretty much made up by the movie (for example, Jade Fox didn't kill Li). Nevertheless, the movie was very well done (too much flying around rooftops IMHO, however).

  • Chinese martial arts films have been gravity defying pieces of action for a long time, even before the Matrix or Jackie Chan. The only difference is that the movies never made their way to the US until now, when Hollywood doesn't seem to be able to produce any truly awesome movies.
    --------
  • Yeah, it's subbed...but it's not like it matters. As long as you can read, you'll be fine.

    By the way, check out my non-Katzian review of the movie.

    Review here. [epinions.com]
  • Hold on. CTHD is NOT a great film; certainly not in any artistic sense. However, it may be an entertaining film, depending on your sensibilities. First, note that there is actually relatively little fighting in CTHD, and there is an unusually large quantity of plot-service and melodrama for the genre. CTHD is almost the anti-Jackie Chan movie. Also, keep in mind that while CTHD spends a great deal of time servicing a plot, the plot makes no sense in the first place, so don't expect it to. Indeed, what plot there is is resolved in an arbitrary and perfunctory manner at the end. Heck, there isn't even a real fight scene at the climax: instead you get a sudden flash of motion blur and special effects and then you have to wait for the requisite people to die. What you do get is a lot of wistful pseudo-spritual talk and a couple underdeveloped love stories. Actually, what I was thinking as I sat in the theater was that CTHD is "The English Patient" of kung-fu movies. (And I don't intend that as a compliment.) A word on the vaunted choreography: sure the choreography is craftily done, however much of it is un-physical (there is seldom any sense of physical contact other than sound effects) and is ultimately lost in the murky lighting and blurriness of the slow shutter speeds that are used. What bothered me most were the wire effects. In the Matrix, when the actors did super-human feats such as running up walls, they did so in ways that were almost credible with our normal perceptions of physics. In CTHD, the actors simply levitate and fly; in those moments when their feet brush the ground, they look more like they're tapping their feet than kicking off. Suspension of disbelief was impossible for me in these flying scenes because it was so obvious that the actors were literally swinging on a line: their pendulum trajectories were blatantly obvious. From my point of view, the choreography of Drunken Master II ("The Legend of Drunken Master"), rereleased in theaters a couple months ago, was far more impressive and exciting. The bottom line is that if you are a kung-fu fan, you will probably enjoy CTHD, provided your expectations are not too high going in. Furthermore, if you are a kung-fu fan with a girlfriend who is not a kung-fu fan, this film is probably a safe date.
  • > Very few US theatres will touch that kind of a
    >movie assuming that the audience would be too
    >small.

    Hmm, I saw a preview of this movie on the big screen a few months back, and it wasn't in a small movie art theatre. Or if the big theatres don't pick it up, it'll be like Princess Mononoke; look for it in your local art theatre. Failing that, I bet there will be a dub/sub DVD released in a year or so.

  • because I'll be moderated down as offtopic... but I have to, for prosperity, because this is slashdot:

    Zhang Ziyi is incredibly beautiful. Selling my kidneys, eyes, bone marrow, and anything else they can take would be but a minor inconvenience if that would get me by her side.
    --
    Peace,
    Lord Omlette
    ICQ# 77863057
  • I saw it a couple of months ago (I'm in Europe), and I nor my friends really came away as wowed as we thought we would be.

    Some parts were wonderful (the 'stealth' scenes, some of the fighting, the backdrops), but there wasn't really a lot *to* the movie. Quite a trivial story, a very subdued style of acting (even more so than is traditional, there are several long scenes where literally nothing moves apart from lower lips), and basically any added value whatsoever.

    Still, some scenes you'll never forget, and that's probably more than you can say of most movies :)
  • The awesome trailer for the movie can be found here:

    http://www.adcritic.com/content/movie-crouching-ti ger-hidden-dragon.html [adcritic.com]

    My friends and I watched it last week and all we could say was "Oooh... play it again." This is on the top of our list of movies to see when/if we stop boycotting the MPAA [openadvocacy.net].

  • Chinese (or Mandrain) is not that difficult to master. Usually, if you know the radicals, it is quite easy to write. On the other hand, there are a lot of words that seems similar but have very different pronounciation and meaning. That's does put me off though Anyway, sheng(4) dan(4) kuai(4) le(4) (meaning merry christmas)
  • Actually, although I never watch that show, I can tell you that it is more meaningful that the matrix. The show has a deeper meaning in that it sorts of reflect the modern chinese society. The middle age people and the younger generation. The middle age people will reflected by chow and yeoh ( if I am not wrong) will the younger generation is reflected by the other two leads. It shows the different behaviours of middle age chinese people and the younger chinese people. If you see it from the above factors, you will know that it is a really great show.
  • you think some of the fight scenes in romeo must die are not wire assisted or something? even jet li can't hover in mid-air... or can he?
  • is this Matrix film with the great story the same one i saw?
  • its mandarin
  • yeah they dub interviews here too, but i notice they always allow a second of the guy speaking his own language before the dubber steps in. i guess the BBC and ITN think people can't read
  • Okay, the only bad part of the movie (aside from some fuzzy filming in the very beginning), was the wirework. Yes, it's cool to see people flying in the air, especially when they're doing great martial arts. Unfortunately, it's not so cool when they're flying at speeds and in ways contrary to the laws of gravity. If they had done it 'correctly', though, it probably would've been too fast to do it safely for the actors. They just go way too slowly when coming down.

    What I was _really_ impressed with was the following (which I knew going into the movie):

    1) Chow Yun Fat is not a sword-guy - he had to learn all that for the movie
    2) None of the principle actors had done wire-work before. This looked as good as anything I've seen (except for Matrix), yet all the actors were new to it. THAT'S impressive.
    3) The Director was new to both martial arts films AND wirework. Not too bad - no experience, and he creates this film?
    4) The film was made in Mandarin. Guess what language the principle actors DIDN'T speak? You guessed it - Mandarin. They were all speaking in a foreign (to them) language! Wow. And I couldn't detect any accents at all (grin).

    That said, if I'm going to go see a movie again, it'd be 'Billy Elliot', not this one, though I did like it quite a lot. Especially Zhang Ziyi - she totally stole the movie from Chow Yun Fat and Michelle Yeoh (an amazing feat).
  • "Shanghai Noon" (which was only stupid
    deliberately and as a form of send-up).

    Shanghai Noon is one of the weaker Jackie Chan movies I've seen lately - check out (for example) the original Police Story, or Armor Of God for vintage Chan - he kicks ass in every sense.

  • This movie has some exquisite locale shots and a tavern fight right out of "Legend of Drunken Master."
  • ...but after making the pilgrimage from Springfield, MO to Kansas City, KS yesterday to see the film, I've gone ahead and posted this review [themestream.com] myself.

    Capsule: Great movie, except the plot was a little weak.

    Am I the only one amused that critics are suddenly noticing this movie as if it's something brand new, and completely neglecting the fact that it's just one example of a genre they've been content to sneer at up 'til now?
    --

  • The movie is showing in limited theaters (i.e. not in AMC theaters.

    Ummm...I saw it in the AMC 20 in Leawood, Kansas, just yesterday.
    --

  • It's not slander, since I didn't say that I had knowledge that he was a pedophile. I made a speculative comment based on information available to everyone here, namely Katz's own comment, and qualified it with the phrase "sounds like he might be". I'd love to hear someone explain Katz's comment in anything other than a sexist, paternalistic light at the very least.
  • Sorry, but if you read Katz, you deserve to have comments like mine inflicted on you.
  • The radio stations around here have been saying that CTHD is subtitled. Is this true?

    Yeah, a sop to those who don't speak Mandarin.

  • This is a sort of sad situation- it used to be that there were a few small theaters around that showed great foriegn or independant films. Three years ago, I could have seen CTHD without trekking all the way into NY. No more. They've all died. One gorgeous old filmhouse even got flooded, and didn't have the insurance to recover. All I have in New Jersey now is an endless stretch of Clearview Cinemas, all of which tend to play the exact same movies, even if they're within ten miles of each other. It's a seriously screwed up world when I have FIVE theaters playing the supremely awful bomb D&D within 15 minutes of my house, but not ONE theater playing this incredible movie (which would certainly rake in big bucks from all the people in my area desperate for good films) within even a 45minute drive or train ride.
  • Jet Li has done a lot of wire work in his films.

    Wire work doesn't make a film better or worse, it's just a different kind of film.
  • > None of the principle actors had done wire-work
    > before.

    Yeoh and Cheng Pei-pei (Jade Fox) have done a lot of wire work before. For Yeoh, check out TAI CHI MASTER (a.k.a. TWIN WARRIORS) and WING CHUN.
  • round up all the women and teenaged girls you know

    Hey Katz, this is /., news for nerds who don't know any women :-)

    It really is difficult to round up women when you tell them its a fantasy martial arts film. But slowly the women I know are seeing this film, they just aren't letting men take them. The film is still playing here in Europe after several months, and I'm amazed how many women have seen it, but none of them would dare go see it when it first opened.

    And if you read Aint It Cool News [aintitcoolnews.com] you'd know that Ang Lee has already started casting for one of the prequels, and money is being thrown at him to make all four stories into movies.

    the AC
  • and i'm sorry, but the stunts are just outrageous!!! flying? jumping 20 feet in the air?
    not outrageous at all. you have no idea what real martial arts practitioners are capable of these days. There really are people who can jump 20 feet in the air and run as fast as cars. I have a friend who was lucky enough to visit a group of ninjas in Japan when he was 7 years old. (He was blindfolded when he was taken there for reasons of secrecy.) He saw one jump about 5 times his height. And I've seen a video of a Shaolin monk doing a cane form- it looked like he was doing it at "normal" speeds, until the commentator said, "this is a recording in slow motion."
    Which is why, upon seeing people jumping and flying in CTHD, I thought the portrayal of the real-life physics was simply too slow.
  • somehow I think you're excited a little beyond reality.
    And this is a bad thing? It must be really boring believing there's no magic in the world...
  • i'm sorry, but the stunts are just outrageous!!! flying? jumping 20 feet in the air? Now the cool thing about films from Jet Li, Jackie Chan & Bruce Lee, is that the kung fu was _REAL_. Not this people being towed up on a rope bullshit.

    i'm sorry, but the stunts in superman and spiderman are just outrageous!!! flying? shooting spider webs out of his palm? Now the cool thing about films from Stallone & Schwarzennegger is that the shooting was _REAL_. Not this comic book rubbish.

  • By its own admission this film is about a China that never existed in real life, inspired by Jackie Chan movies.

    umm... this is a typical pre-jackie chan martial arts movie. the "wu-xia" genre is much much older than jackie chan. in fact, all martial arts movies used to be in this sort of ancient setting. what was different about the bruce lee and later jackie chan movies was they brought martial arts into the modern world, esp. jackie chan. he showed that even in a world with guns and other technology, he could still beat the opponent using skill and ingenuity and kung fu was no longer limited to people wearing traditional kung fu outfits.

  • hmm. i wonder how many kung fu movies mr. katz has seen. CTHD is definitely a great movie. however, i would hesitate to call it the best ever. however, it is probably the first movie that most americans not previously into HK movies will see of this type of martial arts drama.

    But no one has yet portrayed it in this way. "Crouching Tiger" is gravity-defying: the fighters soar over rooftops, somersault around rooms, sail through trees and walls, in and out of rivers and lakes.

    this "wire-fu" is the exact way that many martial arts movies from as far back as the 60s have portrayed the characters. in fact, the genre of "wuxia" novels from which CTHD comes is very old. again, it would be new to people who've only seen "Walker Texas Ranger" but it's certainly not the first movie in this style. however, yuen wo-ping is a certifiable genius. this guy has a unique style and takes the genre and the fights to a whole new level. you'd think the fight scenes would get boring but he keeps on improving and creating jaw dropping sequences.

    It's unusual to see a movie like this featuring women in such strong and distinctly different roles

    see michelle yeoh in some of her previous costume drama kung fu movies

    Cellis (sic) Yo-Yo Ma's haunting score gives "Crouching Tiger" an even more brooding and enchanting quality.

    the score is indeed excellent. one of the best i've heard in a while and yo yo ma is on it but it was composed by tan dun. i think the score won an LA film critics award (one of those award giving groups anyway).

  • I'm always on the lookout for martial-arts films that don't insult my intelligence.

    you probably already have but if not, check out any of bruce lee's movies. you can see the evolution and development of his own personal philosophy and style through his movies. he has an intensity and passion and fury in his fighting that i haven't seen in anything since. it'll also help you to understand jackie chan's style more too which is in part a reaction to do the opposite of what lee did, which is why there is always a strong comedic element in chan's movies.

  • You must mean this article [aintitcoolnews.com] in which they talk about choosing the story to run with and how there will be 6 fight scenes in the movie.

    Yawn.

    Rami
    --
  • A "action" movie that
    1. Doesn't rely on anorexic supermodels
    2. Doesn't rely on huge freaking explosions
    3. Doesn't rely on Marlon Wayans ;)
  • And the grammar is easier.

  • round up all the women and teenaged girls you know who thought Charlie's Angels was awesome
    Why just girls? What about teenaged boys?

    What about the people who jump out of planes because they don't like TJ Hooker?

  • Hey Katz, this is /., news for nerds who don't know any women :-)

    Heh. Well, I can attest that this would indeed be a good flick to get to know one at then ... I took one I met at Friday's party to see this Saturday afternoon, and she dug it. Bigtime.

    So yes this really IS a date movie that doesn't suck, for once Katz got something right :)
  • I had the chance to see this movie at the Pentagon City Loews Theater in the DC area yesterday....it blew my fscking mind. All I can say is that Yeoh deserves an Oscar, the guy who shot the film should be canonized, and Ang Lee is the world's most underrated genius. There are few movies that I, or my roommate for that matter, will go back to *The Very Next Day*, which is exactly what we did. The sword play is unbelievably choreographed...it makes the Matrix looks like something I might work up in my spare time....and Trinity is a pansy compared to Michelle Yeoh. Unreal movie, go see it if it's around you.
  • I would note that the philosophical aspect of the film was what struck me the most when I saw it 4 months ago, and "Promise me one thing...whatever path you take in this life, be true to yourself." is my favourite quote from the film. The film is subtitled but if that is a turnoff for you then you wouldn't gain much from the film apart from enjoying the fight scenes (the dialogue is extremely important to the film). And it does make the fight scenes in the Matrix, Charlie's Angels, Romeo Must Die and even Enter the Dragon look lame. The scenes are fast but so well choreographed that you see every move (as compared to say RMD). A beautiful film that works on every level, a medieval chinese Star Wars.
  • This is very good stuff.

    1. Here [npr.org] and here [npr.org] are two 7 minute RealAudio reviews on NPR, with extensive detail, and some conversation with director Ann Lee.
    2. Here [npr.org] is about 45 minutes split between the director Ann Lee and the Actress, Michelle Yeoh, a star in the film on the NPR program FreshAir [npr.org]
    There is another one I heard over the weekend which really goes into detail analyzing the film. I have not found that link. I wish I had found that one, because it is a discussion of the film by people expert in the genre, and the asian film industry.

    But the ones above are at least educational.

  • to your own post on how awesome this movie is!

    I think the Matrix is only 15% of this movie!

    Geek dating! [bunnyhop.com]

  • CTHD was *astonishingly* good (Score:3)

    by ESR ( 3702 ) on Sunday December 24, 2000 @07:48AM (#541447) Homepage
    As a martial artist myself (1st Dan TKD, 2 years of
    aikido) I'm always on the lookout for martial-arts
    films that don't insult my intelligence. CTHD
    joins a depressingly short list that began with
    "The Challenge" (1982), and includes both "The
    Matrix" and "Shanghai Noon" (which was only stupid
    deliberately and as a form of send-up).

    Great movie, visually gorgeous, fine performances.
    Easily blows away anything else I've seen this
    year, and I doubt any movie I've heard or read
    about would change that.

  • If you can't see CTHD, then try these rentals.... (Score:3)

    by Rahga ( 13479 ) on Sunday December 24, 2000 @09:28AM (#541448) Journal
    I've seen a few other alternatives listed today. Most of them suck, IMHO. I am a man who has seen more B movies than any other man on earth, and I can give you the lowdown on which movies you should rent this holiday season that has not been embraced by US pop culture. Feel free to take them home for the holidays! Here they are....

    "Seven Samauri" (1954): I feel like starting with a classic from the fifties. This foreign flick inspired the story for everything from "The Magnificent Seven" to "A Bug's Life", and set the bar that most dramatic martial arts movies try yo live up to even today. I even believe this is one of the top 10 movies on IMDB's ratings list.

    "Hard Boiled" (1993): This is what most of us video junkies would call, at a minimum, "John Woo's greatest movie ever". Take the coreographed gun battles from some of his US movies "MI:2" "Hard Target" and "Face Off", combine them and multiply by 15, then add Chow Yun Fat. A masterpeice that includes a 45 minute shootout in a hospital that probably cost him a fortune to do. If, somehow this is taken, then try his classic breakthrough "A Better Tommorrow". Watch it, then get the DVD.

    "Iron Monkey" (1993): If you have the blues and want to see something built like Crouching Tiger, then try Iron Monkey. This is laugh out loud ridiculous but has well produced martial arts stunts. Taking the story of Robin Hood and twisting it into Fist of Legend, this also features good and bad guys that can jump over rooftops and change direction in midair, but it doesn't stop there. Ever wonder why Chinese royalty wears those humongous sleaves? It's a weapon that can shoot out up to 100 feet! Just go rent it ;)

    "El Mariachi" (1992): Starting south of the border, this movie is what inspired Quintin Tarentino to create the sequel, "Desperado", here in the USA.
    The production isn't nearly as high class, but the story is far better and much less predictable, and it is very enjoyable to watch. BTW, it stars the same dude playing backup guitar during the intro of Desperado. And, no, he didn't really get his hand shot onstage, that's a dream that QT inserted to keep from spoling part of the first movie....

    "City Hunter" (1992): Jackie Chan dressed like Chun Li (street fighter II). 'Nuff said? Not yet. This is one of Jackie's worse movies as far as story goes, mainly due to the fact it was based on a Japanese comic book. Look beyond that flaw and you'll see the most innovative fighting and weapon scenes just short of Drunken Master 2 and also, a rarity in Jackie movies, gunbusting! If you've ever seen him spinning people around his body, even in DM2, this is where it began and where it worked best. It's also good for a laugh.

    That's enough for now. Enjoy!

  • "Round up the women and teenage girls." (Score:3)

    by alienmole ( 15522 ) on Sunday December 24, 2000 @09:39AM (#541449)
    You are a sexist fuck, Mr. Katz.

    I agree. Not only that, sounds like he might be a pedophile too...

  • The center of the movie is not the sword... (Score:3)

    by Argyle ( 25623 ) on Sunday December 24, 2000 @08:31AM (#541450) Homepage Journal
    The central theme of the movie is not the green Destiny sword, it is the personal search each person is looking to resolve.

    The sword is simply the device that allows the characters to search for that which eludes them. Whether it be unrequited love, vengance, or escape from destiny, eachcharacter strives to fight against their own nature to achieve what they truly desire.

    I can't go into more details without spoiling the movie. But the movie is about what is truly important in life, love and happiness.

    If you've already seen the movie, ask yourself, what does each personm in the film really want? Then look at the obstacles the person puts in their own way on the path there. Puts a whole different spin on the film.
    -----

  • More reviews and a note... (Score:3)

    by antdude ( 79039 ) on Sunday December 24, 2000 @10:28AM (#541451) Homepage Journal
    IMDB: http://us.imdb.com/Title?0190332 [imdb.com] As of this post, it has 8.7 rating out of 10 with 1415 votes (ranked #137 out of 250 on the top 250 movie list). I consider that very good!

    Also, check moviefone.com [moviefone.com] for more details.

    Notes: The movie is in Chinese (Mandarin) so you will have to read the english subtitles if you are watching in U.S. The movie is showing in limited theaters (i.e. not in AMC theaters).

    The movie has three Global Globe nominees (2001):
    1. Best Director -- Motion Picture
    2. Best Original Score - Motion Picture
    3. Best Foreign Language Film
    From Source [imdb.com].

    I still haven't seen it yet, but I am taking my relatives to see it soon :).

  • Gee, I haven't seen any .375 Magnums. Maybe I need to check the latest Guns&Ammo.

    Last I'd heard, they settled on .357 as a bore size.

    You've gotta check five times for stupid mistakes, when you call someone else on their stupid mistkaes.

  • Katz's new microweapon: the .9mm handgun (Score:5)

    by alienmole ( 15522 ) on Sunday December 24, 2000 @10:04AM (#541453)
    martial arts is replacing the fist, .9mm and taser as popular culture's favorite form of combat.

    Katz is clearly on top of the trends here: he's noticed the surge in popularity of the .9mm gun. Using bullets ten times smaller than the popular 9mm which it replaces, the .9mm is a thousand times less deadly. People who have been shot with .9mm guns say it feels like the biggest fucking mosquito they've ever seen just bit them, hard. You need a good pair of tweezers to get the bullets out.

    In a private interview with Katz, he told me that he was impressed by the fact that the .9mm was 2.4 times bigger than that other famous microweapon, the .375 Magnum. When I pointed out to him that .375 was actually an inch measurement, he turned an unusual shade of crimson and mumbled something about NASA and Mars probes before changing the subject.

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