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Television Media

ReplayTV 4000 Series Shares TV Over Net 142

REden writes " ReplayTV announces their ReplayTV 4000 Series networkable PVR. Features include video sharing between LAN attached Replays, sending a show to another Replay over the internet, and automatic commercial skip. Prices start at $700 for a 40 hour unit and max out at $2000 for a 320 hour unit. ReplayTV guide service included. Units are scheduled to ship November 14th." 320 hours. I can't imagine holding on to that much TV - but space is cheap, so, eh, why not?
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ReplayTV 4000 Series Shares TV Over Net

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  • by seanellis ( 302682 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @08:31AM (#2254989) Homepage Journal
    Hmm. "Automatic commercial skip facility." If spammers can sue their ISPs now, how long until some advertiser sues Replay for loss of revenue?

    Sean
  • How closely... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by G-funk ( 22712 ) <josh@gfunk007.com> on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @08:40AM (#2255010) Homepage Journal
    ...Are these things tied to NTSC? Cause I'd absolutely love something like this, but as I live in australia, we're running on PAL. Does anybody know of anything in the PVR area that can run on PAL? Can these things be hacked to do it? What about a Tivo?
  • by Paul9196 ( 411270 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @08:43AM (#2255016)
    I built a system like that myself, except a hell of a lot cheaper. I used an ATI all-in-wonder card and it works very nice for playing dvds, divx movies, mp3s, and TV. It's nice to be able to control which codecs I want to use. I just hope that their system doesn't use proprietary codecs that only their software can read.
  • by dobratzp ( 155212 ) <dobratzp@ele.uri.edu> on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @09:15AM (#2255084) Homepage

    from the faq...

    Q. I don't have a home network. Will I need to get one?
    A. Yes. ReplayTV 4000's are enabled by an Ethernet connection only. There are also all kinds of incredible features that work only when your ReplayTV is connected to your PC. But don't worry, home networks are relatively inexpensive and easy to install. And, to make this even easier, ReplayTV is providing, for a limited time, a choice of promotional offers including a Free NETGEAR Home Network (a $100 value), with the purchase of an RTV4080, RTV4160 or RTV4320.

    The fact that you can bypass commercials still will affect a very limited number of users. Yes, home networks are relatively inexpensive (less than $2000), but your average consumer will not want to set up a firewall/router and a home network just to watch TV. Looks like the mainstream is still bound to low quality "VHS" technology for a little while longer.

  • by peter303 ( 12292 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @09:16AM (#2255085)
    Assume I want time-shift ALL my weekly viewing
    from night to day or to weekends etc, I'd need
    a maximum of 20-30 hours on the laziest weeks.
    I have seven four-hour tapes now for this purpose,
    and rarely time shift ten hours a week.

    I suppose the other 300 hours could be for
    archiving, but there isn't that much I'd want.

    I'd guestimate 100 hours would satisfy all
    but the hard core vegetables.
  • by stripes ( 3681 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @09:18AM (#2255088) Homepage Journal
    Space might be cheap but $2000.00 just for a larger hard drive isn't. I'm sorry, but I will never love TV that much.

    Esp. since I expect someone to figure out how to send shows to a Linux box rather then another ReplayTV, so you don't need to store everything on the Replay, just whatever you don't have time to transfer.

    Especially when NVidia is coming out with a product that will run on my PC and support as large a HDD as I can afford!

    There is some advantage to having a dedicated device with (I assume) a real OS. Maybe not such an issue if your PC runs Linux, but I'm expecting it will be a while until you can use the NVidia with ease to capture TV shows (including tuning the cable box) under Linux. I have the competing product (TiVo) and it has never ever crashed. It has lost power a few times, but never had some random DLL blow up and cause me to miss a TV show.

  • by martyb ( 196687 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @10:06AM (#2255232)

    I can just see the net admins at colleges trying to deal with this. They've had to deal with napster and the like and all the bandwidth they'd consume on their LAN. Now imagine an entire dorm (or campus!) sending saved shows to each other.

    If there's a way to hack the system, I can well imagine folks at the likes of MIT will find a way to do it. The result is that the initial broadcast of a show over the airwaves, cable, satelite, etc. could eventually be dwarfed by the time-delayed transmissions.

    The Result? Bypass the current transmission media and get your shows direct from Replay! Sign up for the shows you want and they'd send it to you, over the internet. Then, just add video servers on the internet with pre-compressed movies available on a pay-per-view basis and you've got all you need to bypass the Blockbuster video rental shops -- just watch what you want, when you want it, without having to go out to get / return a video and no worry about late fees. Sure, it'll be free to share between RePlays for now, but I suspect that's just the initial push to build market share, and then there'd be a rollout of central server subscriptions, copy protection, and per-show charges.

  • by gduprey ( 519544 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @10:11AM (#2255249)
    I was surveyed by Replay a while back (I've had a few of their units) and what they are starting to build here is the idea of a whole house multi-media server. The fact that it happens to be targeted at the moment to TV recording is probably just marketing. Their getting folks interested in the concept (it's pretty new/foreign to many) and will probably "spin" it more toward that once people are familiar/comfortable with it.

    The idea is you can keep video, audio (not yet discussed, but I'm sure is in there), pictures, etc in this unit, share it with your desktop, TV and other units, download video/audio/movies from the internet/etc/etc. Just like a file server, but geared toward multimedia (with the requisite MM oriented management tools).

    It's really a powerful idea (IMHO) and while you can do this with a PC, they have a very nice interface and management tools and a nice "black box" approach. I think the $2000 for the extra space is silly, but...

    I've already updated my ReplayTV 3030 to 80 Hours and will go to 160 soon. Once you start using these things with expanded capacity, you do start to "cache" programs/movies more and more. In fact, once you get over 60 hours or so, you start thinking of the device as some sort of server/respository (unlike with the 30 hour models where you are frequently deleting things when done, making it feel much more like just a time shifter). I really hope the "folders" stuff they mention will be in the next firmware update for all ReplayTV units though. I could really use it about now...

    Unfortunatly, I think their likely to get sued to oblivion, but I have to beleive they expected this and have been preparing for it. I'd love to see them get through such a case unscathed as it would put a nice hole in the RIAA's dike.

    I don't work for Replay, just been a pretty satisfied user for 1.5 years :-)

    Gerry

  • Nothing New (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nhavar ( 115351 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @10:21AM (#2255275) Homepage
    This is nothing new. My wife and I have been doing this for awhile with the ATI AIW cards. We have three computers running with the card and their default software (which includes guide and PVR functions) all hooked up over a home network. Movies can be shifted back and forth over the network and viewed from any machine/tv in the house. Additionally they can be DIVX'd and sent to CD, etc. It cost me around $150 for each card (the newer much faster Radeon is $200 and the even faster 8500 is around $500 w/RF remote). 20 gig hard drive is about $69 bucks...so for about 219 you can have most of the functionality that is offered by this set top box plus be able to play your favorite games on the big screen. Or you can overpay, or your can wait for nVidia to play catch up in this area.
  • by Paul9196 ( 411270 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @10:28AM (#2255309)
    The only thing mine can't do, which is only a software limitation, is that I can't skip over commercials. I love the looks of Nvidias new entertainment system, but it was a little pricey for me. The only real thing I am lacking is a way to change the channel on my digital cable box. I could by an IR shooter like my friend has to do the job, but it is like a 5 second delay on changing channels.
  • by chrisperfer ( 24095 ) <chris&perreault,com> on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @10:42AM (#2255356)
    As an owner of a hacked ReplayTV (i stuck in an 80gb drive) i can tell you that, imho for most people going beyond 80 or 100 hours is not all that helpful. The ReplayTV is a time-shifting device, not an archiving device.

    As the space you have for storage goes up, the problem you immediately run into is the inability to record two things at the same time. This happens more often than you might think, principally because networks compete for the same audience by sheduling shows that have similar appeal opposite each other (the bastards) like for example, X-Files and Dark Angel.

    So, personally, i think that ReplayTV would be better served by sticking in an extra tuner in there in preference to a bigger harddrive.

    Tivo has announced a unit with two tuners, but i believe it only works with directtv. similarly, the microsoft ultimatetv can record two things at the same time, but only off directtv.

    Of course, once there are two tuners in there, it will be easier to use up the space. Harddrives are upgradeable, however.

    Another approach, since these new units are going to be networkable, would be to be able to network two or more units together. Have them negotiate between them who is going to record what when, and then present one user interface to control all of them. that would be nifty, though an expensive way to be able to record two things at once...

  • by ryanvm ( 247662 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @10:54AM (#2255420)
    Everybody keeps saying, "Whoa - who needs 320 hours of TV?"

    However, I'm assuming that ReplayTV advertises their hours just like TiVo does, which is based on the lowest quality setting. If it's similar to TiVo, here is what it is probably like:

    • 320 hours = Basic = pretty crappy quality
    • 160 hours = Medium = tolerable but not great
    • 120 hours = High = cable TV quality
    • 80 hours = Highest = DVD quality


  • Re:Cunning... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ethereal ( 13958 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @11:05AM (#2255477) Journal

    But that might be sufficient for peer-to-peer transmission; if I send it to 15 people, who each send it to 15 people, etc. Or does it have some sort of serial copy protection, so that you can only send it once and your friend can't send on your copy to anyone else?

  • by BradleyUffner ( 103496 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @11:08AM (#2255487) Homepage
    Yes, home networks are relatively inexpensive (less than $2000), but your average consumer will not want to set up a firewall/router and a home network just to watch TV
    Why would the average user NEED to settup a home firewall/router? connect the box to you PC via network, what use is a router? If it's not connected to out internet then whats the use of a Firewall? Alos, I don't think the person willing to spend $2000 for one of these would have much of a problem with the network harwdare costs.
  • by IvyMike ( 178408 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @12:33PM (#2255871)

    Seriously, since I've had my ReplayTV, I've wished that it could get show listings, etc., over my home network. It was obvious when I first got it that one of the future upgrades should be an ethernet port. But my home network cabling doesn't go near the TV, as I suspect is the case for a lot of people.

    On the other hand, I now have an 802.11b base station. Wi-Fi would be perfect in this situation. No need to run cable out to the TV! Hopefully, the ReplayTV people are working on that right now. (Also, Xbox could use an 802.11b option, too. Listening, Xbox designers?)

  • by Animats ( 122034 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2001 @02:46PM (#2256590) Homepage
    What's needed now is automatic peer-to-peer commercial skipping. That way, once a few people have skipped a commercial, everybody else on the net then skips it.

    All that has to be shared is information like station="WMAL" date="2002-06-03" skip-start="08:31:00" skip-end="08:31:30". Every time you push the "30 second skip" button, an entry like that gets created. Entries are distributed over Gnutella or Freenet. When watching a show, your player queries the net for entries with appropriate station, date, and time info. If a few different people have skipped over the same time slot, your player should skip it too.

    Great open source project for somebody.

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