More News And Links On Yesterday's Terrorist Attack 1529
Ian Peon writes: "SF Gate has a short article on how the Internet "proved its mettle as a communications facilitator in a time of crisis." Kudos to all those who kept things running!"
An anonymous reader writes: "The who, what, and how are detailed in this Boston Herald story. The weapons were smuggled in the razor cases. And in order to get to the cockpit, they terrorized the stewardesses, killing a few in order to lure the pilot out. Once the pilot was out, they took control of the plane. They have identified a car driven by 5 arabs had flying instruction in arabic. The men have been traced back to different arab countries."
This WorldTribune.com story claims that Israeli intelligence reports favor the idea that the attacks may have had the backing of Saddam Hussein's Bagdhad government. According to a submission from UberOogie ,Osama bin Ladin denies involvement in the attacks. The claims, speculation and disclaimers will no doubt continue.
Connord D writes: "View the Survivor's Register Please, PLEASE go to the survivor registers, register that your looking for your family, tell your friends, pass the word around and identify those that have survived and those that are missing. Help worried families either confirm the fates of their loved ones so that they can mourn, or help them find those people that are missing." And Brian Mears, LAN Systems Operations Manager for Computer Sciences Corporation, writes: "I have created a forum on my website to allow families and friends of survivors to post messages and communicate with each other concerning this most tragic period." Here's the link: http://www.ntadmin.net/forum/.
It would be a godsend if the various survivor registries would pool their data, or if someone sets up a google-like search engine to reach all of them at once.
oo7 writes: "CNN has a stream of the first plane crash. If you'd like to download it you can from the videos section of this site; it has news updated as fast as I can and streams as fast as I can capture. Please forward any unknown news and links that you may have."
pKa writes: "The last image from WTCs 77th floor webcam is available on a few sites around the net. The original WCTA.org cam-site is dead, but available in Googles cache, where you can see the dark screen (camera already dead, most likely) at 09:52:52, 09/11/01 - just before the buildings crashed. Article (in norwegian) with screenshots available here" The stream of concern that yesterday's events will lead to an illiberal attitude toward privacy is growing into a torrent: vena writes: "CNN reported on television broadcast earlier today that the NSA was now going through volumes of recorded cellular calls for calls made by passengers on the planes. Clear admission."
GothChip writes: "Ananova are reporting that just hours after the terrorist attack on New York, the FBI started approaching ISPs asking for help in installing Carnivore."
mkelley writes: "This is only the beginning folks...looks like the internet is going to be blamed for this...Wired has a story that is sure to cause panic. This is going to be the goverment's way to push wiretapping into your email and web surfing. In this time of crisis, people in high places are going to use this to get their agenda through. "Blame the Internet" is going to be the rallying cry for everything ..." If you're interested in the details of the planes the terrorists chose, a Semi-Anonymous Coward writes: "American Airlines flight 77 confirmed down, crashed into the Pentagon, Washington DC. Flight 77 (Dulles to Los Angeles) is scheduled as a Boeing 757-200:
Boeing 757-200 data and history:
American Airlines Boeing 757-200 photos:
- American Airlines flight 11 confirmed down, crashed into World Trade Center New York. Flight 11 (Boston to Los Angeles) is scheduled as a Boeing 767-200:
- Boeing 767-200 data and history
- American Airlines Boeing 767-200 photos
- United Airlines Boeing 757-200 photos: United Airlines Boeing 757-200 photos"
WallStreetItalia webcam (Score:5, Informative)
-russ
Donate money to the red cross (Score:4, Informative)
Pilot skills / Collapse (Score:5, Informative)
Why the Towers collapsed:
http://slate.msn.com/code/explainer/explainer.a
How good were the Pilots?
http://slate.msn.com/code/explainer/explainer.a
IMAGE and VIDEO Mirror tarballs (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.watership.org/media/
I have made tar balls of the images and the movies so everyone will be able to set up their own mirror.
http://watership.org/media/images.tar.gz -(26985k)
http://watership.org/media/movies.tar.gz -(200189k)
i am not sure on the copyright issues. But anyone is welcome to dload and set up content mirrors.
Re:Destination of PA plane? (Score:4, Informative)
There were also rumors that the plane was headed for another D.C. area landmark such as the White House or the Capital building. But of course, all of this is speculation by me and the media so take it with a grain of salt.
Re:Donate money to the red cross (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/re
Re:Iraq theory creditable (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/09/12/mideas
although my paranoia is saying homegrown.
we setup a section for relief efforts (Score:3, Informative)
Lack Of Media Content On Real News Sites (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Destination of PA plane? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Destination of PA plane? (Score:3, Informative)
another link (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/visions/Publications/t
Written back in '98 apparently, it gives some good insight into plans for dealing with this sort of thing -- I suspect that the "monitoring" aspect of it will get a huge boost from yesterday's attacks.
two biggies... (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TRAVEL/NEWS/09/12/faa.fli
FBI thinks they have names of hijackers...
http://www.theindychannel.com/sh/news/stories/nat
Re:speculation (Score:5, Informative)
It'll take over a year just to remove the rubble that's currently across the 10+ square blocks. Removing the parts of the building that are still there atleast another year. But then removing the foundation will take years. The entire foundation of the complex is almost definitely weakened beyond belief. For safety, they'll probably tear down all of the remaining buildings that share the foundation, but this will be complicated by the amount of underground networks (both cable, electric, gas, and transportation) that run under the buildings.
Only when they're done that will they ever be able to build again.
Approx. 10 years ago there was a fire in an office tower in the middle of Philly. The middle 3 floors were affected, but they twisted the floors above it by only a few degrees. That was enough to have the building perm. evacuated and necessitated ripping it down. They're still trying to take that building apart.
Re:speculation (Score:3, Informative)
Interesting stuff I have heard here and there on the tube. It was built mostly of stone and masonry, saving the use of enough steel to build a battleship, which makes whatever of it that wasn't directly hit pretty good at absorbing vibration, but the part that was hit gave way more easily than it might have with a steel frame.
Re:Iraq theory creditable (Score:5, Informative)
The idea of dropping 4 planes at once and deciding that it was feasible is the hard part. Stuff like this has been tried before, but failed, because it wasn't planned well enough.
I don't care if I am a 'flight-simulator captain' for saying this, but the hardest part of flying a plane is doing so safely. There's a reason why it was possible during WWII to give pilots 6 weeks of flight training then put them up against the enemy - it just isn't THAT HARD to fly an airplane (yes, even modern jets - prop planes are often more complex to keep up) once you learn the concepts behind it. If you're a lunatic that wants to crash into the WTC, then you don't have to follow FAA regs, get the plan safely on a runway, or follow military ROE/procedure. You don't have to do anything but point it at the building and make sure it hits it. The worst part of flight training is learning all the regulations. Pilots in the WWI (that's ONE, not two) would learn enough flight dynamics to take off, fly, and land safely within a WEEK.
Ever been in an auto accident? Tell me how hard that was compared to getting to/from work safely.
Boston Police raid!! Westin hotel! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ambulance Chasing (Score:1, Informative)
Without the mirrors, I wouldn't be able to find out what is happening, and what happened.
I'm very thankful and don't think of it as "Ambulance Chasing" at all. Of course, even if I disagreed with the non-macabre pics being mirrored, Ambulance_chasing would not be the term used.
List of buisnesses at the WTC (Score:4, Informative)
1 World Trade Center (North Tower): http://www.morrisville.edu/Library/wtc/tenants1.h
2 World Trade Center (South Tower): http://www.morrisville.edu/Library/wtc/tenants2.h
Great Flash Graphics (Score:5, Informative)
Helps if you know spanish (which I don't), but the pictures speak for themselves.
The actual animations are at http://www.elpais.es/multimedia/internacional/pla
Harry Browne's position (Score:2, Informative)
Libertarian Party [lp.org]'s Harry Browne [harrybrowne.org]'s position. [antiwar.com]
"Your comment violated the postercomment compression filter. Comment aborted"
Re:Iraq theory creditable (Score:3, Informative)
Good updated article at abcnews.com (Score:2, Informative)
crazy idea (Score:2, Informative)
Especially if there were at least two people armed with those on each flight. (say pilot and head steward/stewardest)
It give them a chance to stop such future trageties in the future.
Just a thought.
==>Lazn
Re:S11 (Score:2, Informative)
I'm more interested in the September 11th theories relating to the formal creation of Israel and the Israeli hostages taken on the same date at the Munich Olympics, but again they could just be coincidences.
Re:Such quick round-up of information worries me (Score:2, Informative)
The computer can optimize the system and help the pilot do some things more correctly and efficiently (recover from stall) but it does not have any idea about surrounding obstacles.
The people who flew the aircraft need not have trained much more than picked up a copy of a Flight Simulator. As they did not need to take off or land the knowledge necessarry for someone already familiar with the mechanics of flight could have adequately familiarised themselves for the task at hand in a few days.
Their biggest concern would have been how to hit the tower as efficiently as possible so that they could be going at maximum speed with maximum fuel on board.
The only example of trained piloting that I'm aware of is the plane which attacked the Pentagon. From the reports, they flew very close to the ground in an attempt to reach the building as stealthily as possible. To perform those maneovers with a commercial jet would have taken some real training.
PA Flight Eyewitness Account (Score:2, Informative)
have no reason to think it isn't authentic.
Dear Jerry,
Following is a message which my one of my best friends passed along with
permission to distribute to those who might be interested. It fills in the
details that I missed in my original conversation with him and attempted to
relate to you.
Tom has given me permission to distribute the message - please feel free to
post it if you deem it appropriate.
Sincerely,
Art Russell
Major, US Army (Retired)
Message Follows:
Today was a tragedy for all of America and to my family, a very personal
one. Lynn and my Niece Liz's husband, Jeremy Glick was on United flight 93
this morning. When the Hijackers took control of flight 93. Jeremy called
my niece who in-turn conferenced him to 911. Jeremy relayed to the police
what was happening as the hijacking unfolded. As our niece Liz listened,
Jeremy told the police there were three Arab terrorists with knives and a
large red box that they claimed contained a bomb. Jeremy tracked the second
by second details and relayed them to the police by phone. After several
minutes of describing the scene, Jeremy and several other passengers
decided there was nothing to lose by rushing the hijackers. Although United
Flight 93 crashed outside of Pittsburgh, with the loss of all souls. Jeremy
and the other patriotic heroes saved the lives of many people on the ground
that would have died if the Arab terrorists had been able to complete their
heinous mission.
Please offer your prayers for all of those who perished or were injured in
this tragic of all days and to our niece Liz Glick and her 2-month-old
child, Emerson, who are left without their loving Husband and Father. May
we remember Jeremy and the other brave souls as heroes, soldiers and
Americans' on United flight 93 whom so gallantry gave their lives to save
many others.
Lynn, our four adult children and I are headed to New York to be with our
family during this time of great sadness
All of my best,
Tom
Re:speculation (Score:3, Informative)
one key point they make is how the buildings in the financial district are possible because bedrock is relatively (30-80') near the surface.
read the whole article here:
http://www.sciam.com/2001/0901issue/0901scitravel. html [sciam.com]
Re:How to safely prevent this from happening again (Score:2, Informative)
I fly back and forth between the US and Israel often, and the Israelis have been dealing with this sort of thing for years. All the American airlines needed to do to prevent this is take 3 steps which Israel has been taking for a long time.
1) Give all commercial pilots and some flight attendants a week of light arms training and a handgun.
2) Lock all cockpits with metal bolts.
3) Give all passengers the third degree. I have seen people getting on planes to Israel get asked to take out a map and show their trip itinerary, then to verify by calling the places where they said they will stay and see if they have reservations, I have seen a needle stuck through a lipstick to check if it is plastique, etc.
It's inconvenient, but it makes it safe.
Israel takes more steps, such as constantly reshuffling how you proceed through the airport, 1 way glass watching you when you wait in line for check in, and an amount of airport security staff, all with military training. I have personally seen the same garbage can be looked inside of 2 times in a span of 15 minutes to confirm that it had no bomb in it - that's just routine patrol.
Re:Suspects (Score:2, Informative)
Snopes has more info [snopes2.com]
Re:ESR is totally wacko (Score:2, Informative)
Easy.
Group of terrorists get on plane. Shortly after takeoff, knives are pulled out of carry-ons. Stewardess is stabbed to show they mean business. They announce they have a bomb and if anyone screws with them, they all die. Then, take over cockpit, kill the pilot, and use your pilot to guide plane into the target.
The assumption you're going on here is that the passengers were just idly twiddling their thumbs, knowing full well that they're being used as a makeshift missle. This is certainly not the case.
Severe Asbestos Hazard? (Score:2, Informative)
There has certainly been some engineering work done- "ASB abate" on the towers over the last few years.
Does anyone have the details? Is there a severe asbestos risk in the area? Is the smoke and dust highly carcinogenic?