Still More 'Copy Protected' CDs 453
maniac11 writes: "This story describes new CDs planned on being released by Universal Music Group that sport anti-copying technology. Not much in the way of actual details, but a heads up on a new plan to foil." Same price, worse product -- higher sales! Universal seems to be the first company to commit to downgrading its entire lineup over the next six months or so.
DVD (Score:2, Interesting)
will be much lower for data corruption.
Label clearly, or get sued for misrepresentation (Score:5, Interesting)
This includes playing on a computer. Many of the other "copy protection" schemes make it impossible to use them on a computer of any sort. Others degrade sound quality.
If they're not clearly labelled as such, I could see lawsuits over mis-representation of the product.
INIAL, IAJAMC.
MadCow.
Re:Sad thing is... (Score:2, Interesting)
Lawsuits have already been filed (Score:2, Interesting)
Just quit buying music altogether! (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, I have bought maybe 15 cds in the past 3 years. Three of those were replacements of cds I'd have for years had been remastered, and the rest were by bands that allow me [jambands.com] and others like me [etree.org] to freely record and trade their live concerts. Radiohead and U2 are two big name acts that have recently figured out that people who trade their concerts are more likely to buy their albums and attend their concerts than someone who doesn't trade.
Check out the links above, there is something for all tastes. There is plenty of music to be had for the price of your bandwidth and blank CDs.
Re:I think it's time (Score:2, Interesting)
Great, now there's no excuse (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Sad thing is... (Score:2, Interesting)
well, crap (Score:2, Interesting)
Shame too, because all I was doing was making it more convenient to keep lots of music in my car. It also makes me happier as the person(s) who broke into my car is just a little more screwed since they won't be able to profit (oh, and not pay royalties) off the cds s/he stole.
So I take it this means that cd-duping is supposed to be eliminated ("more difficult")?
Really... I wonder when they're going to demand that used cd stores pay the record industries for the lost profits.
Idiots. All of them.
Re:Okay, we need to organize something. (Score:2, Interesting)
Bring in a laptop to prove to them that it doesn't play in your computer.
Most music stores I've seen have a sign posted: "If it plays here, it's not defective".
Bringing in a laptop probably wouldn't prove the case, as they'd pop it in their system and it would play fine.
However, you could eat up about 20 minutes of their time anyway.
Re:Label clearly, or get sued for misrepresentatio (Score:2, Interesting)
This logo may be used on discs complying with the CD-DA specifications: the IEC 908 standard and/or the Philips-Sony Compact Disc Digital Audio System Description (the RED Book). [gnscd.com]
There are 12 different logos all with different requirements for permitted use. What I don't know is if these new discs would violate _every_ one of these standards resulting in the publisher's inability to use any "compact disc" logo.
Re:"CD Logo" guidelines from Phillips (Score:2, Interesting)
However, as the astute have pointed out, that means nothing about being able to copy the data off the CD. But, what's to stop someone *cough*Linuxdriverdeveloper*cough* from tweaking the CD drivers to make it work? You want to call it encryption under the DMCA? I bet a lawyer could easily argue it's not true encryption, merely error introduction which the developer corrected. That should make for an interesting fight.
Legality of CD rippers past and future (Score:2, Interesting)
Now with these new CDs, because they're copy-protected, a ripper for them violates the DMCA. So these new pieces of software which allow the contents of a CD containing copyrighted music to be converted into a plain old ordinary computer file are wholly illegal. Which is kinda odd, really, seeing as how they do the exact same thing.
I know that's nothing you didn't aready know, but I just thought I'd get it off my chest.
"Downgrade" - great rhetoric! (Score:5, Interesting)
We should push this rhetoric HARD.
Let's Not Forget Dave (Score:4, Interesting)
Am I bad for business? I've bought every album, some more than once because of mishap, plus their bio CD and a pair of DVDs (one was videos, one was a concert). I've also been to two of their concerts and would gladly go to another, and snap up their professionally recorded live albums eagerly.
What am I not understanding? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Stop bitching about copy protection (Score:3, Interesting)
The record companies are doing a lot more than protecting their investment. They are intentionally crippling their product in a way that infringes on your fair use rights. They have no right to do that. They are trying to control how you use their product. They have no right to do that. Heh.. not yet anyway, but watch them buy a few more laws.
The media cartel only exists because people keep fueling it and voting with their dollars
The media cartels exist because people have no other choice. Independent artists have even more difficult time getting to the top than alternative operating systems...
Re:Okay, we need to organize something. (Score:3, Interesting)
Judges may or may not be concerned with the signage. In any case, it must be prominently displayed. Also, vendors cannot sell a product 'as-is' in most cases. Their is an implied warranty of merchantibility, which means that the product will work. Disclaimers can't disclaim this.
These signs (like many others posted by businesses) are their to scare off people who don't know the law and/or their rights.
So no, bringing in the laptop will not prove anything to the dumbshit manager of the store. But it might prove something to the small claims court judge.
Re:well, crap (Score:2, Interesting)
They already tried. The response they got from the courts was "too bad - covered by first sale doctrine" i.e. once it's sold to one customer the original seller can't (and shouldn't) expect to make money from any additional sales of the same item.
Now it will get interesting when the music CDs (not talking about the enhanced cd's) start coming with EULA's like PC software ("you can't sell, give away, blah, blah blah, your copy, blah blah blah even if you have no use for it and don't keep any copies
Re:Okay, we need to organize something. (Score:5, Interesting)
They'll get VERY tired of it, VERY quickly. The average chargeback processing fee is $20, and that's charged to the merchant regardless of whether the chargeback is upheld or not.
Whenever you write your credit card company to dispute a charge, you cost the merchant about $20 regardless of outcome.
Re:Label clearly, or get sued for misrepresentatio (Score:2, Interesting)
Joe Public *WILL* Care (Score:5, Interesting)
"Hey, Mom, would you care if you can't play CDs on your computer?"
"Uh, YES, don't you remember? That's how I play all my CDs."
"Hey, Dad, would you care that you can't rip CDs to your computer?"
"Well, yes, because I copy all my CDs to MP3s so I don't need a CD changer to listen to them in sequence."
I suppose my parents may be weird though. After all, my Dad listens to country... (and he's got *all* his CDs on his computer as MP3s, but then again, he works for Digital - er, Compaq - er, HP). My Mom does some work with editting webpages, so I guess she can be considered a "technical" type.
But I know many people who I wouldn't consider a "nerd" who use their computer to play CDs straight. And they'll be mightly pissed if they can't listen to their new CDs on their $2000 laptop...
Don't forget, computers are slowly becoming "entertainment centers." My Mom basically gave up on her little CD player she used to use to play CDs and now (would) play her CDs via her CD-ROM drive -- except that she uses AudioGalaxy now. (And the incident with the CD-ROM door being stuck shut. Ignoring that...) Her computer sounds better than her small "portable stereo."
My sister (who is definately not a tech-type at all) uses her computer to play CDs - which, considering she only uses it for homework any other time should tell you something. (Although she has a "real" CD-player now she uses instead. It's a portable CD-player with headphones which is the real selling point.)
Many people who own a computer - a growing portion of the population - especially in the "pop music" set - end up playing CDs through it. Sometimes it's because the computer is in a separate room from the stereo and they want to listen to music while doing homework. Sometimes it's because they want to rip the 2-CD set and listen straight through them without swapping disks.
Legal digital music is becoming a way of life for the "younger" generation. Go through practically any college and you'll find that most of the music pumping these days is either a mix CD or straight MP3s being played through a high-fi stereo system. (With more colleges requiring computers, college students stick with the tool that works - if we can't spend $500 on a stereo, we'll use the $1000 computer we had to get instead...) It may not be near 50% of music listeners yet, but it's at least 10% - which is a lot of listeners to potentially permentantly alienate.
House of Cards (Score:2, Interesting)
Since paying for a whole new set of proprietary HW is just not a practical plan they're doomed - they should roll over and give up right now.
Now I'm less inclined to buy CDs!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
I only used Napster (and other such MP3 services and so forth) to aquire music that was impossible to find in stores, thus buy, or to download music from artists that had said they supported their fans sharing music in that manner.
Last year I spent >$200 on CDs. The RIAA certainly made money off of me. However, now the RIAA wants to curtail my ability of fair use? Naturally, I'll be less inclined to buy CDs I can't use in all of my players. Not to mention that I consider these CDs that are "protected" to be defective. Of course, I might be inclined to buy again if I can have a tool to bypass their schemes (which will more than likely be illegal under the DMCA).
Case in point. I don't want to buy CDs that are defective (either intentionally or not). RIAA is losing my business by curtailing my ability to listen to my CD in the format I choose.
Re:Label clearly, or get sued for misrepresentatio (Score:2, Interesting)
Actually, it is becoming increasingly common for CD-ROMs in computers to use CDDA to extract & play audio instead of a direct analog hookup to the sound card.
All recent Mac's are like this, and recent pc clones are also being built this way.
Out of the three computers at home that I use the most (iBook w/internal DVD drive, iMac w/internal CD-ROM, and Dell w/internal CD-R/RW), only one (the Dell) has an analog connection from the CD drive to the sound card... the other two use digital extraction, and thus can't play these CD's.
Firmware upgrades? (Score:3, Interesting)
Limiting or preventing ripping of CDs seems like a real threat to not just Johnny Digital's passtime but of those in the electronics industry whose livlihood relies on consumers legitimately being able to rip CDs.
How soon until they fire back with firmware upgrades or other hardware hacks that overcome the copy protection gimmicks? And how will the music industry respond when this stuff is sold with the claim "Now compatible with new CDS!"?
Heather Nova - South (Score:2, Interesting)
Apparently there's a small warning 'will not play on PCs'
If you want to buy a CD just to play with the copy protection, I'd suggest this one.... (Although her earlier 'Oyster' is *far* better)
Dave
All depends. (Score:2, Interesting)
The Gza admonished us to check the labels [astraweb.com], and I do. When I buy new, I consciously look for indie [ninjatune.net] labels' [cstrecords.com] releases before I look to majors.
If copy protection is the myopic way of the future, it'll be exclusively indies and the majors that don't employ copy protection that receive my spending dollars.
Re:Label clearly, or get sued for misrepresentatio (Score:3, Interesting)
The pathetic thing is that I can rip those tracks to HDD, then burn them to CD instead of making a full copy of the CD, and it will play! So much for copy "protection."
As an audio purist ever in search of better sound quality, the very idea of purposely degrading my signal source with digital fingerprints and copy protection is just pushing me to buy fewer and fewer CDs. I am not willing to pay for damaged goods, and I can't see how messing with my audio source can be viewed as anything but damaging.
As to piracy, I own a grand total of one pirated CD -- a copy of Willie Dixon's "Gingerale Afternoon" that I haven't been able to find anywhere in over 5 years. (At least not for a sane price -- there are a couple online shops that are willing to sell me a copy for $27+shipping.)
There are another 5-10 CDs that I'd pirate for the same reason, but I can't even find someone who owns an original, much less a place to buy those albums.
On the downside, my reduced purchases have absolutely no impact on the big labels as most of my purchases are from much smaller studios like Blind Pig Records. Odds are these smaller companies don't have the volume to invest in so-called copy-protection technologies, but if they farm out the AD conversion and manufacture to bigger companies I'll end up having to skip their products as well.
For those using the so-called CD player in their computer, if you actually cared about the music you'd spring for a CD portable regardless of the copy protection issue. The players built into a computer have so much signal interference and low-quality chip amps that they just aren't worth listening to!
Vivendi Universal speak with forked tongue. (Score:2, Interesting)
From the CNet article, September 25, 2001:
From IMDB StudioBrief, September 26, 2001:
So which is it? Lost sales? Or record sales?
(I also think that predicting a drop in music sales due to The Attack is disingenuous---I actually suspect that music sales won't be affected at all, and may even increase a little.)
Re:What a pile of crap.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Said that - I perfectly understand what this phono freaks mean - psychoacoustics - when you take your brain into the equation.. Your ear make a weird transform, somewhat closer to wavelet time-frequency one, then to Fourier. Then you evaluate the result using a lot of strange rules, which I have little knowledge about.
But why not to state it straight? That vinyl causes such reproduction that is pleasant to hear, that's it.. No pseudo-scientific bullshit..
copyproofcds.org (Score:2, Interesting)
and thanks ryanvm for the idea and the domain name.
cristiana
Line out and the law of unintended consequences (Score:5, Interesting)
Ripping a CD to MP3s involves: (a) fetching track names automatically from freedb, (b) reading the audio off the CD (much faster than playing it) into separate files and (c) making MP3/ogg files.
Ripping a recording from line in involves (a) recording the whole damned thing at real time, (b) cutting it into separate tracks (no track info, remember), (c) hand-naming the files and making playlists. Takes a lot longer and requires more effort. I've done it once for a live recording from a MiniDisc, and it's not something I'd want to do for every CD I wish to listen to on my computer.
Of course, the payoff for going to this Herculean effort would be the kudos you get from all the mp3 l33ch3z when you upload it for the taking. So, in effect, copy-protected CDs would punish honest home-rippers and encourage file-sharing mp3 d00dz.