NSync Copy Protected CD 577
admiral2001 writes "This article from NewScientist.com details the most mass market venture into copy protected CDs. Namely, NSync's new CD will be released in a least 3 different versions (with different copy protection techniques). Also, one of the types has (small) labelling saying that the CD cannot be played on computers."
Hm.. (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing is, this is probably just a sample. The thing to look out for is all the 14 year old girls who never play their CDs in their computers but the CD player their parents bought them for their birthday.
It'll look like a tremendous success. "Oh look! No one cares that this CD came out unsupported on computers, lets mass market!".
Next, you'll have your favorite RIAA-signed musician being forced into the same distribution plan..
Now, go talk to your little sister about how she's going to have to go with out her poppy boy band shit for a while.
Idiots (Score:2, Interesting)
Ya know what sucks.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Why N'Sync? (seriously).... (Score:3, Interesting)
But if you are going to do a market study on a group, I guess you would want to test it out on one of the biggest selling groups out there.
Let's hope that it crashes and burns, and people, including parents, get up in arms about it.
Michael
Fight the Monopoly [cafepress.com] and the Evil. [cafepress.com]. More at Poundingsand.com [poundingsand.com]
What should be done... (Score:5, Interesting)
Everybody buy a copy of the CD. And then return it a few days later, complaining that it doesn't work on your computer or CD player. Go to another store, rinse, repeat.
If enough people did this a few times, all of the sudden, the return rate would be abnormally high on the CD. All of the sudden, the record industry would see this as troublesome and reconsider copy protected CDs.
Re:Potential Problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, I believe it *was* NSync from the first article. The band was actually unnamed at the time (the article just said that over 100K albums had been shipped) and a lot of
So, since the album has been on the shelves for a while has anyone fired up Gnutella and checked for MP3s to see if how successful they were?
mac users good? (Score:4, Interesting)
/adam
Copy Protected CDs (Score:4, Interesting)
It is just a matter of time before everything you buy will not play on computers. You will have to rip a disc using the line-in on your soundcard from a regular CD player, break up the tracks and then MP3 them. It won't stop trading, it will slow it down.
I think what might turn this around is... If at least one large music publisher converts all their offerings to CD protection - suddenly that may affect a lot of people (who listen to music on computers) and the number of returns (lost sales) may sky rocket. Consumers may get upset and this will probably cause CD sales in total to tumble maybe an additional 5% or so. Remember that Vivendi et al. are upset because the market dropped 5% over the last year.
I can also see at least one lawsuit (perhaps class action) if they piss off enough people. And if they convert all their offerings - they will piss off a lot of people. Sign me up for the class action when it happens.
It is also worth noting that many people who don't read slashdot have cd burners now - even those not computer literate. This will surely piss them off too. Not to mention that the question "Why can't I make a mix cd from cds I bought?" will come up VERY often, and be difficult to answer.
There will be backlash if a critical mass of CDs are copy-protected. I'm really interested to see the fallout. Remember, the consumer is king... And this sort of copy protection is definately "pissing on the king's cornflakes".
Oh, and another point... (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in US, and I buy the CD. *shudder...just remember it's hypothetical* I try to rip it, I fail. I go to the p2p and download the entire CD. I then promptly burn that and distribute to all my friends who want the CD to play on their computers. I also distribute the mp3's to those who want them for their MP3 players.
This experiment will only prove how far people will go to circumvent copy protection, not how well the protection works. In a worst case scenario, the artists *shudder again* lose money because people quit buying the copy protected CDs and instead get unprotected copies from their friends.
Once again, RIAA, wrong answer. To quote Anne Robinson, you are the weakest link, goodbye.
Re:Part of bigger problem, not just N'sync CDs (Score:2, Interesting)
If you enjoy ripping cd's like I do why would you even buy cd's if you can't rip them? In other words, if you don't agree with the technology in place to prevent your fair use of the media simply don't acquire the media in the first place. In short, boycott.
Re:Pool (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Part of bigger problem, not just N'sync CDs (Score:2, Interesting)
The real trouble will arise when a decent band, that perhaps a large number of Geeks listen to (say, Korn, Weezer, Groove Amada, or any othe rhalf decent group), start copy protecting thir CDs.
I have no doubt that someone will find a way around this stuff, look at DVD encryption for example (I know this is different, but the challenge is still there for _some_ hackers)
trademark? (Score:4, Interesting)
Any thoughts?
Clarity (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Built-in ass covering? (Score:4, Interesting)
Sony is not without its scientists. They know what a "control group" is.
Guarantee you, they will be able to distinguish among UK, US and German versions; they will be monitoring, tracking and pushing internal reports back and forth on this.
What we should hope to see is lots of rips from US and Germany, and none from the UK. Send them a message that copy-protection will only make their goods a target for the rip artistes.
Re:Part of bigger problem, not just N'sync CDs (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft/RIAA decides to be bigger assholes than they once were and are now even alienating users/listeners who once supported them. The users/listeners decide that dealing with the BS is too much, and turn their attention over to "alternative" software/music. The users/listeners decide that the alternative is not only less abusive, it's also better! The monopolies crumble as the populous foces their attention on those once deemed unworthy.
It's a future waiting to happen, but only if you follow.
the German 'draconian' one works on Macs? (Score:2, Interesting)
But the German version does not even play on a Windows PC meaning users cannot listen to music they have bought... [snip] However, Apple Mac users have succeeded in playing the German disc.
Eh? Wouldn't this suggest this is defeatable by software, and thus useless? (Mac, Linux, *BSD, BeOs rippers/encoders anyone?) Anyone care to comment on this?
Re:Hm.. (Score:3, Interesting)
All they need to prove is that it works.
Re:GOOD (Score:3, Interesting)
Have you ever thought it might be a conspiracy by the record labels? Think about it, they pick an artist they know the open-source crowd (the people most likely to bitch about CD copy protection) doesn't like and there's no way in hell we'll buy *this* album. Then when nobody complains (because only teenage girls bought it to play in their CD players), the labels run press releases saying, "See it works! The consumers aren't complaining." Then Whan-O! the whole lot of new CDs gets pressed this way and we're fuX0red.
Re:trademark? (Score:4, Interesting)
But I'm wondering if this (well, the German version) is actually some digital signature that CD copiers and MS Windows is looking for and then disallowing playback (explainable as a Windows bug because it should just disallow copy).
Consider that Mac users can listen (and copy?) to them.
A couple of suggested experiments for anyone with one of the unlistenable German discs: plug earphones into the audio jack on the front of your CD-ROM drive -- can you hear anything that way? (That's a direct analog out from a D/A converter built into the drive, bypassing anything the OS does). How about playing/ripping it on Linux?
Enquiring minds want to know.
(Oh, BTW, I think it's Philips that owns the Compact Disc trademark, or Philips + Sony)
Re:I'd boycott but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:GOOD (Score:4, Interesting)
It is manufactured, easily digestible, put in a pretty little package and sold by the millions.
It is what the record companies want you to buy, it is easy for them to sell, especially when it is all over TRL.
The music is too perfect, there is no soul to it. N*sync has no emotional attachment to the songs because all they did was sing them.
Sure they look good and arguably can dance and arguably have good voices, but its manufactured, and pushed upon its audience, who buy it because all their friends are going to have it and its all over MTV and popular radio.
Its the perfect formula.
The same can be said for mainstream rap and rock, with the exception that some of them, infact, more likely most of them, actually write their own songs. It is still over produced to the point where seeing how much talent these bands don't have in concert is painful.
Re:trademark? (Score:2, Interesting)
What makes you think the owner of the CD logo trademark won't simply alter their licence agreement so that it covers these copy-protected discs? Panasonic (or whoever owns it) would be missing out on lucrative licencing profits otherwise. Heck, maybe they own a few record labels themselves; then it would certainly be in their best interests to allow use of the logo on protected CDs.
Re:What should be done... (Score:3, Interesting)
All you need to do (Score:5, Interesting)
Now I know that all this may fail HOWEVER as a failsafe, just make sure you buy the CD using a credit card (not check card). If they refuse to give you your money back, threaten to have the bank stop the charges. That'll usually convince them to fold. If it doesn't, make good on the threat. Leave the CD in the store and walk out. Then, when you get home, call the bank that issued the credit card and ask what you need to do to block a charge. You'll probably need to write a letter explaining the charge you want blocked, and maybe attach a copy of the reciept (so make sure you have it). When you do what they bank wants, they'll stop the charge and bill the merchant. You won't be charged anything.
Believe me, it won't take a whole lot of this to put a stop to this copy protection. The mamangers of the specific stores will get all pissed off about this and raise a stink to the higher ups. It won't take too long before the root of the problem is traced back to this batch of CDs, and the recording company in question gets yelled at.
My 13 year old daughter (Score:2, Interesting)
I think you don't realize how many 14 year old girls there are that use computers to listen/rip/burn cd's. My 13 year old daughter has a pretty awsome mp3 collection on her imac and ibook. Her portable cd player doesn't get half the use her computers do when it comes to music
Re:My 13 year old daughter (Score:3, Interesting)
I think it depends mostly on their parents. For instance, you read slashdot, on the nerd side of life. You bought your daughter an imac and an ibook.. she's exposed. What about those kids whose parents bought them a computer but no one aside from the school is there to show them what it is.
A lot of kids will be upset about this, but I'd venture to guess the majority wont even realize it's there.
Re:I'd boycott but... (Score:1, Interesting)
Remember, you have the wallet. The manager wants your wallet. That is the foundation of business, and that is all that matters.
The record labels have changed the rules. The "no returns" policy (which is meant to stop people from buying, copying, and returning CDs) is based on the assumption that any CD will play on any CD player. That is no longer the case. Since there are now other valid reasons to return CDs, old policies cannot be strictly applied. Managers understand this.
If people start returning defective CDs, these same managers are going to start raising a stink about it too. Their old policy was simple -- now they have to start screening all of their returns to find out which ones are valid (wouldn't play on my equipment) and which ones are not valid (copied and returned.) Make this as big a headache for the companies that sell the CDs as it is for the people buying them. At the very least, they'll have to start putting big "this CD does not play on computers" stickers on every one of these defective CDs.
If all else fails, try writing a letter to the chain's public relations or customer service department. You'll probably get a gift certificate worth two or three CDs.
Re:Won't matter in the end (Score:2, Interesting)
No it isn't. Do you realize what a miniscule percentage of the population even knows what IRC is, nevermind how to use it? The vast majority of consumers will never go to these lengths to get free music: it's easier for them just to buy it.
Also, if an average person sees that you have to go to these kinds of lengths to 'steal' music, they'll question the legality and ethics of it. Do you know how many of the people leeching from Napster didn't know it was illegal? I'm totally serious: I was talking with some kids that had just joined university, back in '99, and they didn't believe me that Napster was illegal. They said things like "if it's illegal, why don't the police shut it down? There's no way this is illegal." Some even thought it was run by the record companies! (OK, people are ignorant and stupid--what else is new?)
Regardless, if 'stealing' music starts to involve more than three clicks, the vast majority of consumers will just go buy it instead. I belive that this situation is all the RIAA is really striving for.
- j
Re:I'd boycott but... (Score:4, Interesting)
I was able to play it (cdplay) and rip it (cdparanoia) using both drives on my Linux box (an IDE CD-ROM drive and a SCSI CD-RW drive).
I also was able to play it (Windows Media Player) using both drives on my Window box (a DVD-ROM drive and a CD-RW drive, both IDE). I didn't try ripping, since I don't have any appropriate Windows software.
There were no delays in playing or ripping; cdparanoia didn't report having to do any jitter correction at all.
This CD was bought in Canada. If it is the same as the American edition, then this is some piddling protection! The New Scientist article claims that "copying using home CD recorders is variable." It would be interesting to have some reports from people with such devices.
It would also be interesting to hear from some people in Germany about the degree to which the CD is broken there.
Anyway, I'm quite disappointed -- it looks like I won't be able to buy and return this CD.
Re:GOOD (Score:2, Interesting)
I personally would love to see the labels botch copy protection early, and with maximum embarassment and blowback, before they come up with something that works better.
Enhanced CDs (Score:2, Interesting)
But people are not realizing that this is perhaps a blessing in disguise. Thingk about it: If people can't rip NSync CDs, that means no more NSync MP3s on the net! This is fantastic!
Re:I'd boycott but... (Score:2, Interesting)
I dislike sounding this down-trodden, but I do not think things are going to get better on this front. They will keep putting more unreasonable copy protection schemes on these cds, and unless they really goof and make them where they won't play on the millions of cd-players of the millions of teenie-boppers that they actually care about, our ten to twenty thousand complaints won't even make it on the bottom of one of the record producer's action item lists.
statistics and test marketing (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's hope this CD shows up disproportionately on file sharing services (it's still easy to convert it into MP3 using analog) to drive the message home to the music industry that this kind of effort is pointless. (If you like, you can also run out in protest and buy a few dozen non-copy-protected NSync CDs, but I wouldn't recommend it.)
Control over CDR drive's firmware (Score:1, Interesting)
Actually this whole audio disc protection scheme might have a good side-effect. Now there will be more and more demand for CDR drives that let the user (application) specifiy the actual checksums, ECC, etc. for the data on the disc. This has been an unsolved problem for years already on CDR drives.
So this violated red book, yellow book, ISO or standard X? So what, user application should be able to specifiy it. This way protected audio discs will be become copyable (read: backup :) again. This would would also make it possible to make self-bootable PlayStation (2) discs.
This also applies to seeking to any section of the disc, even if the second is beyond what is specified in the TOC of the disc. This again probably violates some standard, but who cares. We need this to break lame CD-ROM (and DreamCast GD-ROM as well) protections.
Ofcourse you Americans will not be able to (legally) enjoy it because of the lame DCMA, but us Europeans should.
I make an appeal to everyone to bitch to their CDR drive manufactor for firmware that has the above functionality!
Related: TOOL CD is copy protected too... (Score:2, Interesting)
Taco Save us.