TiVo Gets In Deeper With Sony

mickeyreznor writes: "TiVo and Sony have entered into a seven year deal. The deal will result in TiVo's software being incorporated into Sony's electronic products. This deal might be good for TiVo, who've seemed to have been struggling financially to date. I'll just have to see how much more sony products cost with TiVo included." This is good news for anyone with a TiVo.

TiVo

[crumbz]

I don't have TiVo but I would like to get one. Any recommendations on buy now or after x-mas? When are the new ones coming out? Is Sony manufacturing them?

TiVo vs UltimateTV

[jaga~]

Besides most of you hating M$, how do most people view the two competitors.. I know TiVo is more expandable with the HD space and all, but is it better than Ultimate TV? Anyone had/used both and can give us an honest opinion?

Uh oh.

[jason99si]

How long until Sony puts restrictions on recording Sony Studio's movies bought using pay-per-view? or on HBO and the like?

While I think the competition will be good (Microsoft is competing in this realm, etc.) I'm not sure I'm going to like the influence Sony will have from a copyright perspective.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV

[Gaijin42]

I have used both. Ultimate TV has the nice feature of being able to record two shows at once. And I like the grid style tv guide better. But Tivo is GREAT with suggestions, and the season pass manager is the best of all of the PVRs out there. Letting you set up conflicting season passes makes life WAY easier to get the shows you always want, and fill in the gaps with other shows.

If tivo added a second tuner, it would rock my world.

Re:TiVo

[jsimon12]

See if you can find a 20 hour TiVo, I think certain Walmarts still had them and they were only like 149 bucks (maybe less), then throw a 100 gig HD in there and rock on with your like 100 hours TiVo.

Good move

[isa-kuruption]

If we want TiVo to stay around (which means becoming profitable (again?)), then they are going to have to make such strategic partnerships. Sony is a good choice for TiVo, and Sony obviously sees the possibilities TiVo has to offer.

As for price increases in Sony products, I do not think you'll see much (if any). The kicker is the subscription fee. But the point of this kind of relationship is that Sony has the market base for TV's, DVD's, etc... and once people have these devices in their home which are "TiVo ready" then it makes it realy easy for them to dial the 800 number to subscribe. Buying an extra "box" (at $300 a pop) is not worth it to some people. Having the "extra features" in a box they are already buying is a good thing!

Building a bare-bones DVR with Linux?

[swngnmonk]

Are there better resources out there than http://linuxvideo.org?

I like the functionality of the TiVo, but I don't want to spend the money on one - I don't need anything but a way to decode & record a cable TV signal.

• TiVo - Does the TiVo come with a cable descrambler? If not, do you need to leave your cable box on the channel you want to record on?? Isn't that a huge PITA?
  
• Hardware - Are there PCI cards out there that can accept a coaxial input & output S-Video or Composite video? (I've already got a kick-butt AGP card I'd rather not get rid of)
  
• Cable - Does 'basic' cable (e.g. in the US, TNT/TBS/History Channel) get scrambled? Is there a way to decode in software?
  

Why? Because the TiVo can't be programmed from the office, and I can't move anything off the TiVo to store for later viewing. I've already got 150+ GB of available storage, I need to use it for something.

Containers and content

[Mannerism]

It's interesting that those who deliver the content (cable, satellite providers) and those who deliver the hardware we use to view the content (Sony, TiVo) are finding new and revenue-generating ways (HDTV, digital cable/sat, PVRs) to give their customers what they want (quality picture and sound, flexibility in viewing times), but those who actually PRODUCE the content seem to be doing the same thing they've been doing all along (producing generally low-quality stuff and relying mostly on ad revenues). Is there any way for technology to have a positive influence on the stuff we watch instead of just the way in which we watch it?

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV

[sdo1]

Not only that, but the dual tuner DirecTV / TiVo (I hate calling it DirecTiVo... I don't know why) can handle 3 streams at once. 2 recording and one playback simultaneously. I have a Sony SAT-T60 and it handles this stuff with no problem.

I can't imagine being a TV watcher without TiVo (or at least something similar). I watch less TV now, watch what I want to watch, and always have a library of programs that interest me ready to go at any time. There's always an episode of Battlebots, Junkyard Wars, Simpsons, or Space Ghost just sitting there waiting to be watched.

-S

Could be a "Digital Switch".

[A_Non_Moose]

Ok, with apologies to the "Digital Hub" idea of SJ.

Give it some serious thought for a second. If Sony could take ILink/Firewire and ethernet, then add it to a Tivo, or Tivo-like device, it would make a killing, IMO.

A rather nebulous idea, to be sure, but one time I was being rather lazy and needed some images I had snagged...for lack of a zip disk, and rather than emailing them to myself or ftp'ing I simply dragged the images to a digital camera and it had put them on the memory card inside.

Very neat and simple. A device that does what you want w/o any restrictions, encryption, access denied, backdoors, product activation.
Drag, Drop, copy, done. (I hesitate to say I was on a mac, so no flames, pls)

Imagine this applied to a PVR. You've got a dvd/SVCD/VCD/mpg/avi/mov or heck maybe even mp3's for good measure. You drag, drop or pipe it over a wire and it plays by either decoding it or accepting a straight DV stream.
Not only would the coolness factor be a driving force, but the MP|RI-AA "FSCK OFF" factor would make them fly off the shelves.

It could be done by SONY and very few others because SONY, unlike most corporations can, have "someone to point a finger at".
MSFT == gates/ballmer
APPL == jobs
SONY == (I have no idea).

This is what most corps are aiming for, mind you.

Yeah there would be other corps screaming bloody murder, maybe suing, but (IIRC) Sony or a Sony like company would defend itself from the likes of Rambus/MSFT/MPAA. (Was it Sony?...don't remember and too dang tired to look it up, anywho..).

I think, it is a possibility...some corps "get it" when they 'give ppl what they want' *not* "give ppl what they think we want'".

One Moose's opinion.

Moose

Re:sounds suspicous

[sdo1]

I can sort of see where you're coming from, but you are indeed paying for a service (and not just hardware). That service is the program data. Every night the thing dials up and updates that data. They can't provide that service for free and expect to make any money.

Now, unlike Ultimate TV, TiVo has a "lifetime" subscription option. I think it's about $250 one time deal for the life of the box. So at least there is a way to avoid a permanent montly fee.

-S

Re:sounds suspicous

[mendepie]

With TiVo you are not paying for the electronics, you buy that. What you are paying for is the information about TV programing in your area.

Without this information you can use a TiVo as a glorified vcr, and record channel 4 at 10pm for 1 hour, but you cant say, "record all showings of enterprise, unless there is a new showing of Buffy. And if there is, get a later showing of enterprise".

I dont know if the software upgrades are part of the service or part of the unit purchase. But it's not that important since in boat anchor mode, it does not do much :-)

Oh yeah ... The service includes ntp syncing of the clock. I currently use my tivo as one of my ntp servers :-)

Re:Upgrade

[e4]

I just got the upgrade.

I can't comment on the video compression because I haven't seen it in action yet.

One thing I do like is the new skip-by-tick-mark feature. It basically allows you to jump through a program in 15 minute intervals. While fast-forwarding (or rewinding), you hit the ->| (skip to end) button and it skips to the next tick mark on the progress bar.

Beyond that, they added a little to the "Showcase" section, which will apparently allow you to watch show previews and movie trailers (aka "ads") for upcoming programs. I haven't seen this in action yet either, but I don't imagine I'll use it much anyhow.

Now, if they'd only let me save my delay and offset for the FF jumpback correction, I'd be happy. Backdoor mode is really cool, but only as long as my power company doesn't hiccup. Anybody know the new backdoor code for 2.5 yet?

Re:Upgrade

[Jburkholder]

Oh, while this is good news that 2.5 is here (early perhaps, by some of the talk of "early next spring" that I had been hearing), there is one small drawback (for me, at least).

These upgrades disrupt some of the hacks that can be done. The system has two 'duplicate' root partitions which are used to switch over the machine to new software versions. Any hacks you have applied (as in daily call over Cable via PPP, in my case) have to be re-applied.

I found this out when my recorder went from 1.3 to 2.01 shortly after I got it to work in the first place. I had been eyeing TiVo for a long time and finally decided to get a Sony unit last month and to put a 75GB second drive in it right away.

I ran the unit through enough of the setup to test the modem, as was suggested in the FAQ; but I found that my TiVo was totally unable to perform the second setup call after I had installed the second drive. I looked around to see what I could do to troubleshoot the modem, but nothing worked and it started to look like the thing was just fscked.

I thought I was screwed (can't return it for a new one after voiding the warranty) until I found mention of the PPP hack in the FAQ and gave that a try. It worked great... for about 2 days until the thing upgraded itself to 2.01 and all the things I'd done like getting bash to run and doing the daily call through my Cable were gone.

Apparently, the TiVo had two root partitions that are used to switch software versions. I had to open the machine up again, attach the A drive to my PC and go through the setup again.

I guess I'll be doing that again as soon as this upgrade gets delivered.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV

[stripes]

I know TiVo is more expandable with the HD space and all, but is it better than Ultimate TV?

I only have a TiVo, and I'm not positive I'm talking about TiVo vs. UTV here, or mixing some of these up with TiVo vs. ReplayTV. Sorry.

• UTV only works with DirecTV. TiVo comes in a DirecTV flavor (that can now record off of two channels like UTV), and a "Stand Alone" flavor that works with DISH, cable, or an antenna (and mixed, like antenna plus cable or antenna plus DISH -- very important if you get normal networks via antenna).
• DirecTiVo has two "live buffers", UTV only lets you do PIP.
• TiVo does a way way way better job tracking schedule changes, and letting you decide which shows to get when there is a schedule change. (TiVo basically tracks the show name, or other search, and lets you assign a priority, UTV looks for a show that is on at "about eight" with the name you gave it)
• TiVo can be asked for it's current TODO list of stuff to record, to make sure it is going to do what you want.
• UTV has a 30 second skip button, TiVo has a 60x FF with self correction. They both take about as long to use, but many people like the 30 second skip
• TiVo has TiVomatics (during a commercial if the right crap is put into the VBL an icon pops up, pressing select will ask if you want to record "Show X", which is normally the show being advertised (or sponsored by Lexus), you can schedule it as normal, or cancel...or you can not press select and never see the screen -- it works even during FF), UTV doesn't.
• TiVo can be asked why it didn't record something you thought it should
• Unless you disable it, TiVo can record stuff it thinks you might like onto otherwise unused space (really unused, a show you recorded three months ago, and said "save for at least three days" is more important then a show TiVo thinks you might like because you liked other shows with the same actors, writer, and director).
• TiVo lets you opt-out of their "information gathering", and tells you what they gather if you decline to opt-out. MS does not.
• TiVo demands you use a phone to dial in and get program info (well DirecTiVo gets that off the air now, if you aren't recording something at 2am). UTV lets you use any ISP you like.
• UTV's interface is slicker
• TiVo has operating funds for a year or two (plus whatever Sony pays them), but is not currently self sustaining. MS can buy everyone on earth a UTV before going bankrupt :-)
• I like TiVo, I hate MS...

Anyone had/used both and can give us an honest opinion?

Yes, he posts on a lame non-slash web BBS type thing [avsforum.com] once in a while. I think he is DrStrange. He has three TiVos, a Replay, and a UTV. He does balanced reviews (tells you what each unit is best for, not just what TiVo does well). I looked for the exact post, but couldn't find it. If I had I would have skipped doing my own list.

Re:Upgrade

[e4]

Woohoo! 30-second skip is back!!

Pressing Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select on 2.5 will turn your ->| key into a 30 second skip button (no backdoor mode needed). Of course it seems to disable the other uses for that button, but not a bad tradeoff...

Re:Could be a "Digital Switch".

[SmittyTheBold]

Have you forgotten Sony is one of the big labels? They put things in the market where they can without killing their own other markets...

You can bet any product will have just as much "content control" as any product out there.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV

[Quickening]

All good points. TiVo has a very enthusiastic capable hacker audience. I myself have upgraded the storage, added a TiVoNet card, and modified the software. Running a web server and other network services, TiVo is a true internet appliance. We are close to having a reliable network video server. The high quality MPEG2 encoding has broad utility (any video stream can be encoded). Once on my lan, and with a permanent connection to the internet, the phone line is no longer used.
As might be expected, the reviews I have read confirm that TiVo is fast and responsive and stable compared to the UTV. This even tho TiVo runs on a 54MHz PowerPC chip! The UTV's apparent advantage of 2 simultaneous recordings will soon not be when the DirectTiVo software is updated to 2.5 I am not such a TV fanatic that I have to record to shows at the same time. I can watch one on TV while TiVo records another. Big deal.

Re:FP

[Cramer]

If TiVo goes out of business, the tape will be pulled off a lot of mouths. There are no secrets inside there. Once there's no longer a threat of lawyers (or killing the company), a lot of previously guarded utilities will surface -- feeding them guide data is not hard at all.

So get a DirectTV unit. It requires almost zero interaction with TiVo to function. With a few minor modifications, it never needs to call tivo. Sure, you'll stop getting "TiVolution Magazine" and "Showcases", but how often does anyone use those?