Kazaa to be shut down? 419
darkpriest writes "According to this article on The Register, the file sharing software KazaA has been ordered to cease copyright infringment. They have two weeks to comply with the Judges ruling or face a penalty of $40,000 a day." CD: We've gotten a number of submissions about this, I had no idea Kazaa was this popular (must be all those a's in their name). I bet anyday that the RIAA will sue cisco for making routers that could be used to infringe.
more info... (Score:4, Informative)
There is a little bit more information about it on cnet:
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-8022666.html? tag=mn_hd [cnet.com]
although it does not contain too many facts beyond the actual case and the judgement.
I't s a Dutch court making the order.. (Score:5, Informative)
More to the point, Kazaa (the file sharing system) and FastTrack (the network (and libraries for accessing it)) are one and the same, so this should also affect Morpehus and Grokster (not to mention the buggy linux Kazaa client) !
This is bad bad news. Quick to the Kazaa before it goes away !
Yawn. (Score:4, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
WinMX (Score:5, Informative)
And by the way, for those that are modding this... I do not work for WinMX in any capacity, nor do I have any financial or personal stake in it. I'm just trying to help the people that looked at this article and thought, "Well, damn. What's left for me to go to now that doesn't suck?".
Re:Popularity (Score:5, Informative)
It's pretty clear that it's a big part of the reason they're being targetted by the BSA, RIAA, etc. currently... I can only hope that University research into these things doesn't fuel the corporate interests backing the anti-P2P movement.
Re:Centralized Servers == Bad (Score:2, Informative)
Vicarious liability arises when the defendant "has the right and ability to supervise the infringing activity and also has a direct financial interest in such activities." Napster, 239 F.3d at 1022.
Also, there's still the good competitive analysis of kazaa, etc. from the RIAA (where we also find the codification of liability):
http://www.dotcomscoop.com/riaamemo.html [dotcomscoop.com]
yeh, apparently these apps arn't server dependent (Score:3, Informative)
Also Xolox uses the Gnutella network, so each client behaves like a transparent server.
Because of that, you log on right now & even though Xolox says that they have shutdown because of the legal situation, the app still searches/downloads/uploads files perfectly well via the Gnutella network.
So as far as my take on this is concerned, all these law suites can do is stop new revisions of these apps - they can't stop people using these apps even if the licensies/distributers of those apps shutdown.
Re:Not decentralized? (Score:2, Informative)
Not translated quite correctly (Score:2, Informative)
Basically - KaZaA is ordered itself to stop infringing on arfists their right withing two weeks. It is not said that they are actually doing so - but if they are - they better not do it two weeks from now.
But at the same time - the dutch version of the RIAA (well not quite comparable - the legal framing is way different) is ordered to sit down with KaZaA withing two days to reach agreement as to how to legally offer music.
So the sword cuts two ways. While it is by no means clear yet -if- kazaa actually has stepped on the artist rights in any way.
Also note that Buma/Stemra is quite in a different leage that the RIAA, has a lot more legal shackles and govt. oversight - and typically chargers very reasonable fees - for end users in the fractions of dollars per song. And is very cognant of fair use. The netherlands is rift with things like public libraries which rent out popular music.
Re:eyepatch department? (Score:2, Informative)
Plagarism is totally different than "piracy". Plagarism is when you pass off someone else's work as your own. It is possible, then, to commit plagarism (which is not, AFAIK, illegal, at least in general) on a Free work, if you claim that, e.g., you wrote Emacs. This doesn't take away from the fact that you are entirely within your rights to distribute Emacs. However, it is illegal to distribute copies of MS Word, even if you acknowledge that MS wrote it.
Re:Cisco is too big for the bully (Score:5, Informative)
DeCSS? Explicitly developed to enable playing DVDs on Open Source computers with DVD drives. It's hardly practical to share full-length movies over networks or even to store them locally on hard drives -- although you should note that the latter use is not infringing. I for one can't think of a single use for DeCSS that's infringing under the traditional doctrine of fair use, given the current practical technological limitations. It may well be in violation of the DMCA, but that's a seriously broken law that undermines rights that consumers of intellectual property have enjoyed for a very long time. The DMCA isn't Norweigian law, anyway.
Skylarov? His product is entirely legal in the country where he wrote it. In fact, without his company's product it's Adobe's software that's illegal. It's against the law to erect technological barriers to fair use in Russia, but that's what Adobe's so-called encryption does. It's his company that ought to have been held accountable for marketing the product in the US where it was illegal; Skylarov himself as an employee had nothing to do with that. If he's guilty of anything, it's of demonstrating that Adobe's claims about the security of their encryption scheme was a total crock. Embarrassing corporations isn't illegal -- yet.
Peer-to-peer networks? All of them run on top of the Internet, which, in the event you haven't noticed, is one vast peer-to-peer network designed for freely sharing information. None of the other indexing schemes for available information, such as Gopher or even some web pages, are not fundamentally different from networks like Gnutella.
Decentralizing etc.. (Score:2, Informative)
One thing I never did figure out was why K, M & G all look the same (bar different icons). What's up with that?? As far as I'm concerned, the RIAA can kill as many clients as they like. There will always be more (and better) P2P apps cropping up. Kinda like natural selection.
Anyhoo, here are some old Slashdot posts on the subject:
RIAA Looks To Stop KaZaA, Morpheus & Grokster [slashdot.org]
File Sharing: Decentralizing, Open-Source Fasttrack [slashdot.org]
-TheCrunch
.sig .freud
Slashdot editors live under rocks? (Score:3, Informative)
It's good to see Slashdot editors keep up with technology. FWIW, the FastTrack network (through the Kazaa and Morpheus clients) has consistently been the single largest bandwidth user amongst colleges and universities for the past few months.
webwereld.nl (Score:5, Informative)
Rechter: KaZaA over twee weken dicht
judge:Kaza must close in 2 weeks
This is the remarkable outcome of a "kort geding" (court where outcome is in a short time) between kazaA and music right organisation "Buma/Stemra". If kazaa does not comply they must pay 100.00 guildens (~45.000 euro) a day with a max of 2 Million guildens. This outcome can end the Kazaa, that is one of the biggest music exchane services since the departure of napster.
The judge also dertermined that BUMA/stemra must meet with Kazaa to negotiate a contract where Kaaza can legaly offer misc via the internet. Accoridng to kazaa there was already a oral agreement with the buma/stemra the they canceled the engotioations.
Loyer Christiaan Alberdingk Thijm sees the judgement as a vicotry , in spite of the closing threat. "it is fantastic that they have to negotioate with us again. That means we still have enough time to make an agreement."
...
about the passage in the verdict about the "auteursrecht" [copy right? ] he is less to speak. "in the verdict is that kazaa breachtes the copyright. This is nonsense. The users are responsible for this. With the same argument one could close the suppliers of video recorders"
. . . appeal. . .
according to Alberdingk Thijm the verdict only has consequense for the software. This means that the network where also morpheur and grokster make use of stay 'open'. Poeple who already have installed kazaa soule be able to continue with using the network.
.
.
.
Buma/stemra did not react. "we do that when we studied the verdict"
[sorry for speliing errors and parts left out]
Re:Time to unholster the clue stick (Score:3, Informative)
Yup, unfortunately. It depends on where the jurisdiction of the law is, but it requires some court (usually the Supreme Court) to overturn it before its actually invalid.
Some background on the FT network (Score:5, Informative)
The KaZaa/Morpheus servers handle logging in and refer the node to a supernode, where the node sends its list of files it wants to share. These super-nodes store these lists, and search queries are forwarded to the supernodes.
A supernode also gives the lists of some of the clients its connected to, so if the supernode disappears nodes can talk to other nodes about supernodes without getting kicked off the network.
So, effectively the network is controlled by the supernodes, which can be just ordinary PCs with reasonable bandwidth. The KaZaa servers only handle the logging in pretty much, so I doubt the FastTrack network could ever technically be shut down. Unfortunately the FastTrack protocol is very proprietary, and uses some closed-source algorithms. It would be good to see someone create an open-source 'equivalent' of the p2p protocol with the excellent features of FastTrack.
Anyway that's just my understanding of the FastTrack network, correct me if I'm wrong.
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Better(?) translation of original webwereld.nl art (Score:3, Informative)
A more complete and better(?) translation of the webwereld.nl article [webwereld.nl].
Judge: KaZaA must close in two weeks
Thursday, 29 November 2001 - KaZaA must stop making copyright infringements of music artists in two weeks with, a judge decided today.
That's the remarkable outcome of summary proceedings between KaZaA and Buma/Stemra [Dutch RIAA]. If KaZaA ignores the decision they are forced to pay 100,000 Dutch guilders per day, with a maximum of 2 million guilders [1 NLG = about 0.40 USD]. The verdict can mean the end of KaZaA, the largest peer to peer network after Napster.
The judge also decided Buma/Stemra must negotiate with KaZaA within two days about a treaty that will allow KaZaA to legally 'distribute' music. According to KaZaA there already was an oral agreement with Buma/Stemra when Buma/Stemra canceled negotiations at the last moment.
VictoryKaZaA's lawyer, Christiaan Alberdingk Thijm sees the verdict as a victory, despite the threat of KaZaA being forced to close. "It's of course really nice that Buma/Stemra has to negotiate with us again. That means we still have enough time to make an agreement.
Whether Buma/Stemra and KaZaA will be able to make an agreement within two weeks, Alberdingk Thijm can't say. "I find it difficult to estimate"
But Alberdingk Thijm isn't happy about the passage in the verdict about copyright infringement. "The passage says that KaZaA itself makes copyright infrigments. That's of course nonsense. The users of KaZaA are responsible for that. You could also close down companies that make VCR's with that argument."
Appeal"You can only have a point when you say KaZaA gives users the possibility to break copyrights, the same argument used against Napster. I have the feeling the judge bungled that part of the verdict", says Alberdingk Thijm.
Thus KaZaA is thinking to appeal against that part of the verdict. "But before we make a decision we'll have to study the verdict again, calmly."
According to Alberdingk Thijm the verdict only has consequences for KaZaA's software. That means the network the company uses [FastTrack], which is also used by Morpheus (MusicCity) and Grokster, will stay 'open'.
People who already installed KaZaA on their computer, would still be able to use the network. KaZaA doesn't use central servers [they do! but it's still 'optional'] as Napster did, so stopping the service is difficult.
Buma/Stemra doesn't want to comment the verdict yet. "We will do that after wes tudied the verdict thoroughly", as George Knops of Buma/Stemra says.
Copyright (c) 2001 - WebWereld / Maarten Reijnders
Translation by Eelco Lempsink
Re:I't s a Dutch court making the order.. (Score:3, Informative)
...and the good news is, that it will take at least two weeks. Also the court has ordered the IFPI (the Dutch RIAA companion) to hold talks with "Consumer Empowerment" (the company that developed FastTrack protocol on which all clients rely) about the formation of a legal music-distribution service.
So there might be a lot of water flowing down the Rhine before something happens. And then again, it is a Durch court. They are not really known to be a corporate whores. Hell, they smoke pot in that country so you might as well expect a sensible outcome from this...
Re:Popularity (Here's How) (Score:3, Informative)
Last, remember that Kazaa and their ilk are *not* truly p2p networks - the software they run *does* require that the program check in with Kazaa occasionally. Sure, Joe Hacker can bypass that, but good luck running this p2p network when 98 of every 100 people are off of it because they aren't hackers.
Re:eyepatch department? (Score:5, Informative)
OpenFT is what you seek! (Score:5, Informative)
Try OpenFT / giFT [sourceforge.net].
Comment removed (Score:2, Informative)
Re:eyepatch department? (Score:3, Informative)
No. The real issue is "how should the owners of creative works be compensated?". Music nowadays (at least for the big labels) is "work for hire". The musicians have no ownership rights to the music. Anything that goes to the creators is a matter of contract negotiations, and, I suspect, creative accounting. (The average musician is no more an accountant than the average accountant is a musician.)
None of the money that you pay for a CD goes directly to the musicians. (Unless, of course, you listen to indie bands, like sensible people.) It goes to the label, who determines how much the band gets.
How the FastTrack P2P stack works (with pictures) (Score:4, Informative)
use IRC =) (Score:3, Informative)
Good alternative