Wired on Autism in the Valley 861
digaman writes: "The December issue of Wired magazine contains an article of mine on what appears to be an upsurge in autism among the children of programmers and engineers in Silicon Valley: "The Geek Syndrome." A complicated issue, explored in depth. I hear the California Department of Developmental Services is launching a research project to investigate the questions raised in the article."
Real numbers (Score:5, Informative)
Autism or Aspergers? (Score:5, Informative)
We ahve been toying with ideas about links between people suffering from high functioning aspergers syndrome and people who work in professions such as IT, especially development. This is mainly because with aspergers the only major outward impairment of the individual is with social interraction and social awareness and this coupled with tendency to obsess over repetitive detail means that aspergers sufferers fit the mould of good programmers.
I don't know enough about the syndrome to know if it is passed on through genes, but one could postulate if there is a group with a higher than average make up of the disease who are breeding amongst themselves it might possibly lead to a significent level of new cases compared to the national average.
Even today a lot of aspergers cases are misdiagnosed as straight autism.
Here for more information on aspergers and the differences between it and autism [wpi.edu]
Re:The MMR Vacine May Have Something to Do With It (Score:2, Informative)
The more likely cause was that folks actually started to look for autistic kids, and as they found them, money was poured (or trickled) in to extend their research, which kept the curve rising, as opposed to flattening off.
This was written up earlier this year in the Brithish Medical Journal, with more accessible articles in New Scientist to follow. The consensus went for the latter explanation, which fits the data much better.
Re:read the article (Score:3, Informative)
Good observation, nicely worded too!
You mustn't forget intellectuals' breeding patterns anyway. Intellectuals breed with negative population growth. (i.e. 2 intellectuals have 2.0 children on average). i.e. Intellectuals are destined to become outnumbered anyway. (However, that doesn't mean that they won't be a dominating minority - the majority of South Africans were black, the dominant minority white, for example).
However I'm not convinced, from reading the article, that the thing is hugely genetic anyway. I think that, as always, the socialisation that the children get in the first few years of life governs how schizophrenic (i.e. detached) the child will develop. Maybe the intellectual parents _nurture_ detached children.
(i.e. it is more like self-inflicting obselescence.)
FatPhil
Re:Could Pollution in Silicon Valley Be The Cause? (Score:2, Informative)
For example, "Dr. Davis has been receiving a large number of emails from parents, who have had their children's hair analyzed for toxic chemicals. The preliminary results show that extraordinarily high levels of antimony and arsenic are being found in children with learning and behavioral disorders within the spectrum of autism." - from Crib Life [criblife2000.com].
Also, from Preventing Harm [preventingharm.org], states that, "Animal and human studies demonstrate that a variety of chemicals commonly encountered in industry and the home can contribute to developmental, learning, and behavioral disabilities" and that "[c]ertain genes may be susceptible to or cause individuals to be more susceptible to environmental "triggers." Particular vulnerability to a chemical exposure may be the result of a single or multiple interacting genes."
And finally, the jury is still out on the link between vaccination (especially the MMR - mumps/measles/rubella vacine) and autism. There are numerous doctors who believe their is a link, and just as many who say there is not.
So do you really believe that environment plays no role in autism?
Consider the source (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Thats just it! (Score:2, Informative)
You know, at this point in my life, I think a healthy dose of hockey-banter and a desire to have "frivilous" conversation would do me a world of good. I would probably do better in job interviews, get along better with colleagues, and be "on the market" for that sexy and intelligent geektrix. I would like to be balanced. The fact is, socially adept people are the managers, VPs, and CEOs in the world. Those that can read a person's intent. They may not be able to grasp the concept of <insert geek topic >, but they certainly can see that I may/may not fit in with the corp culture within their organisation. And if they are the one doing the hiring, well, I'm SOL.
We are predatory creatures at the same time that we are co-operative, and there is a very subtle dance taking place in front of my eyes every day that I cannot see. Booksmart as I may be, if you cannot interact, it is difficult to "network", schmooze, lie, flatter, whatever the so-called neurotypicals do. Maybe in a 1000 years autistic behaviour will be an advantage and the norm, but today it is a liability.
Remember, the ability to interact with your fellow monkeyman/woman is still far more important than your hacking skillz. The world as we know it could alter significantly at any moment. Think of the traits neccessary during the 72 hrs after an earthquake. Leadership, co-operation, communication; nobody is going to be needing a programmer or network engineer when you're scrounging for food with glass stuck between your toes.
Re:Autism or Aspergers? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Could Pollution in Silicon Valley Be The Cause? (Score:2, Informative)
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--An Adsorption Clarifier(tm) combining flocculation and clarification into a single process step using less than 60% of the area normally needed for these functions
--A Mixed Media filter using three or more granular media layered and graded downward from coarse to very fine. Solids removal is occurs throughout the entire depth of the bed.
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I do believe that there is more stuff out there but this is all i can remeber at the time
Re:This is not a disease.. (Score:2, Informative)
I see that once again, people who consider themselves experts in one field have decided that their opinion is expert in another.
Let's put one thing straight, if you have ever met a child with Aspenrger's Sydnrome, it is not mild, it not something that has been defined as abnormal simply because the rest of 'society' doesnt get it.
It is in the DSM IV (of psychiatry) because it is a devastating neurobiological syndrome for a kid to have. Please dont fucking compare it to Dyslexia. You insult those with Asperger's and those with Dyslexia.
Anyway, please look it up, look at
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/
Re:The MMR Vacine May Have Something to Do With It (Score:5, Informative)
If you're seriously interested in reading about it rather than just deciding that the temporal correlation between the two is sufficient proof of causality, both BMJ [bmj.com] and the Lancet [lancet.com] have had a lot of original articles and correspondence on the topic in the past few years, for example the following study by Taylor et al.
Autism and measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine: no epidemiological evidence for a causal association
Taylor et al.
Summary
Background We undertook an epidemiological study to investigate whether measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine may be causally associated with autism.
Methods Children with autism born since 1979 were identified from special needs/disability registers and special schools in eight North Thames health districts, UK. Information from clinical records was linked to immunisation data held on the child health computing system. We looked for evidence of a change in trend in incidence or age at diagnosis associated with the introduction of MMR vaccination to the UK in 1988. Clustering of onsets within defined postvaccination periods was investigated by the case-series method.
Findings We identified 498 cases of autism (261 of core autism, 166 of atypical autism, and 71 of Asperger's syndrome). In 293 cases the diagnosis could be confirmed by the criteria of the International Classification of Diseases, tenth revision (ICD10: 214 [82%] core autism, 52 [31%] atypical autism, 27 [38%] Asperger's syndrome). There was a steady increase in cases by year of birth with no sudden "step-up" or change in the trend line after the introduction of MMR vaccination. There was no difference in age at diagnosis between the cases vaccinated before or after 18 months of age and those never vaccinated. There was no temporal association between onset of autism within 1 or 2 years after vaccination with MMR (relative incidence compared with control period 094 [95% CI 060147] and 109 [079152]). Developmental regression was not clustered in the months after vaccination (relative incidence within 2 months and 4 months after MMR vaccination 092 [038221] and 100 [052195]). No significant temporal clustering for age at onset of parental concern was seen for cases of core autism or atypical autism with the exception of a single interval within 6 months of MMR vaccination. This appeared to be an artifact related to the difficulty of defining precisely the onset of symptoms in this disorder.
Interpretation Our analyses do not support a causal association between MMR vaccine and autism. If such an association occurs, it is so rare that it could not be identified in this large regional sample.
Lancet 1999; 353: 20262
Re:The MMR Vacine May Have Something to Do With It (Score:1, Informative)
The doctor in the UK you cite was strongly criticized for many omissions from his study. For example, while he correctly reported that since the introduction of the MMR vaccine, there have been more diagnoses of autism, he failed to report or explain that the same rise in autism rates was reported for children not receiving MMR vaccines. He also failed to report that many of the children he reported on exhibitied signs of autism prior to or at the time of initial innoculation.
It's unfortunate that the general public is so willing to tacitly accept almost anything presented as "research" as gospel without looking into the matter.
Re:read the article (Score:2, Informative)
PDD-NOS is not, BTW, a mild form of autism. NOS stands for Not Otherwise Specified, and it is a category of autism used for when symptoms do not fit uniformly into Aspergers or classic Autism.
BTW, in regard to ADHD, children with ADHD frequently show marked improvement (better concentration, better haved) when given Ritalin, which in other children acts as a stimulant. There is very good evidence that there is a neological disorder involved, not just "spoilt brats".
Uninformed opinion is very destructive to both people and families suffering from both these diseases. Please realize that while you and your girlfriend may have discussed this for a half an hour or so, others have spent their lives researching it, and their opinion, backed by scientific research, are likely to be a bit more accurate than your theorizing.
Re:It's actually a contributing factor, I think. (Score:3, Informative)
From "The Way We Really Are," by Stephanie Coontz:
Re:In breeding (Score:3, Informative)
"Studies have shown that problems with inbreeding only occur after many generations of close relatives breeding together"
That is patently bullshit. Please would you point me to the references for these "studies" and I will tear them up along with your post.
OK, here goes. This is pointless, but I feel compelled to demolish you fallacy:
There are thousands of single-gene "monogenic" disorders. A Good example is Cystic Fibrosis, although you could replace this in the example for countless diseases. Cystic fibrosis is a recessive disease. This means that you have two copies of the gene (called CFTR), and if both are "damaged" or mutated, you will have the disease. However, if you have only one mutated copy, you are just fine. In this case you are a "carrier" for CF - but you will probably never know it.
Now let's take the example that you are a carrier for CF. About 1/20 people are carriers for a mutated CFTR gene, so this is not unlikely. Now, you have a 1/20 chance of marrying somebody who also is a carrier for CF. If you did marry someone who was a carrier, each child you give birth to will have a chance of having CF. Each child will have a 1/2 chance of inheriting your "bad" copy of the gene, and a 1/2 chance of inheriting your partners "bad" copy of the gene. 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4, so there would be a 1/4 chance of the child having full blown CF. So overall, you would have a 1/20 (chance of meeting somebody else with CF) x 1/4 chance of having a child with CF:
= 1/20 x 1/4 = 1/80 chance of giving birth to a single CF child, if you are a carrier and marry a random individual.
Now consider having a child with your sister [er... rather not - ed.]. She shares 50% of your genetic makeup. Therefore if you have a single mutated copy of the CF gene, she has a 1/2 chance of having that bad copy. Therefore:
= 1/2 x 1/4 = 1/8 chance of giving birth to a single CF child if you are a carrier and have a child with your sister
So, quite evidently, if you are a carrier for a "recessive monogenic" disorder, the chances of having an abnormal child are HUGELY increased with inbreeding - within a single generation. This same principal applies to other modes of inheritance and more complex traits - such as heart disease or diabetes. The maths is a little more complicated though. Furthermore, every person is a "carrier" for on average TWO inherited diseases. This seems like a lot, but just remember that the chances of meeting someone else who also happens to be a carrier for the same disease is very rare. Unless you happen to have sex with a relative. In which case, you are very likely to have an abnormal child.
Despite what the twat above said, I seriously advise you *NOT* to start going out and making bacon with your auntie.
Re:In breeding (Score:1, Informative)
There is also mounting evidence that some "monogenic" diseases offer protection to carriers (which is why they have not been breed out by natural selection.) The most commonly known one is the protection against malaria offered by the sickle cell genes. The body of a carrier of CF is better at retaining hydration than someone without a copy of the gene, which historically may have protected from death by disease-caused dehydration (which was a major concern up until the middle of the 20th centuary.) When two copies are brought together, it means bad things--but the single copy may be helpful.
That tendency is a piece of knowledge that could also drive suspicions that these cases of autism are genetically-linked. For many years, studies have suggested that two parents of high intelligence tend to produce children of average intelligence. (Note tend.) An argument can be made for both environment causes and genetic causes. Here, this article suggests to me, and apparently to those who have decided to investigate, that two parents with a tendency towards mild "autistic" behaviors have a tendency to produce children who are diagnosed with full-blown autism. That suggests a link. Further studies are needed to prove or disprove the link--and that's basically what the article is saying. Both genetics and environment can produce tendencies, but studies are required to determine whether either (or both!) are to blame. Both can be under suspicion.
This is especially true given that we're talking about autism, a disease that's not very well understood. Therapies that work for some children have no effect on others. There has been some suspicion recently that diseases with similar sympotms but different underlying causes may be lumped together under the heading of autism. (For example, last I heard, there were studies starting up to determine whether the lack of/malfunction of a particular digestive enzyme could be the underlying cause behind some cases of autism--for some children, a treatment which replaced that enzyme through injections has worked wonders while in other cases it hasn't had a damn bit of effect. That lack of effect in some caused the treatment's dismissal by some researchers; now some are wondering about the discrepency and looking at what, outside of parental illusion, might cause that.) Autism requires the type of research that this article suggests it is beginning to receive. The tendency to blame it on bad/detacted parenting during the 1970s and early 1980s severly hindered scientific investigation of other possible causes, and that has only begun to be remedied recently. It's rather sad that a clustering effect like this is what it takes to get this type of attention, but perhaps the clustering itself will give more insights into what particular causes can be. There are so many factors that can be brought under suspicion here. It may not be simply one factor which is causing this. But it may lead to the scientific identification of some factors in autism, which can help diagnosis and treatment. When you're talking about looking at genetics and environmental factors, it's not only the psychs which are involved any longer. It's scientific investigators as well.
a few facts (Score:2, Informative)
Asperger Syndrome - Asperger Syndrome is a form of Autism, a condition that affects the way a person communicates and relates to others. However people with Asperger Syndrome are usually of average or above average intelligence, (unlike those with Autism). It is sometimes known as 'high functioning Autism'. It causes difficulties in the way a person relates to other people, socializes and forms relationships, amongst other things. (LINK) [asperger-syndrome.com].
Autism -- a condition characterized by an inability to relate to people. The incidence of the condition is about 2 in every 10,000 live births. Autistic infants do not cuddle and do not like to be picked up. They prefer to be left alone and are intolerant of change in their environment. Autistic children may respond with tantrums to such changes as the rearrangement of furniture or toys. Many autistic children are mute; in others, the development of speech is severely restricted to a repetition of a few words. Physical development is normal. Initially believed to be a consequence of poor parenting, it is now recognized as a neurological disorder. Some autistic children improve spontaneously. Others respond to a specialized plan of treatment. However, less than 25 percent of autistic children get better. Over half of all autistic children require residential placement by the end of adolescence. (LINK) [rush.edu]. There is no link between the MMR vaccine and autism. (LINK) [nih.gov].
Selective Mutism -- (formerly called Elective Mutism) is a psychiatric disorder that is characterized by consistent failure to speak in SELECT social settings in which there is an expectation to speak; such as school. (LINK) [selectivemutism.org] (warning: sub-par HTML). The crucial diagnostic element is that the child has the ability to both comprehend spoken language and to speak, but fails to do so in select settings. These children will display reasonably appropriate verbal and interactive skills at home in the presence of a few individuals with whom they feel at ease. The term Selective Mutism should separate individuals who demonstrate a selectivity with whom they speak from individuals who speak to no one. A population which should be excluded are immigrants who speak another language, have no history of the disorder, and experience SM for a short period of time. In these cases the mutism is usually transient. (LINK) [aol.com]. The cause or causes of selective mutism is unknown. (LINK) [aol.com]. Selective mutism is sharply different from autism. (LINK) [aol.com].
If you believe you or a child has a problem, a good place to start is with a medical doctor. Don't rely on the information I provide. I do not vouch for the accuracy of any of this.
Re:Psychology and the scientific method (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not sure what school you went to but the Psychology research methods and stats (2 courses)at my school are carefully taught. In the upper level Psychology classes, we are trained to critique and recognize biases in scientific journal. In fact, I have trouble reading even NYTimes articles without the urge to tear it up.
As a student of Psychology and Biology, you are making a gross generalization when you suggest Psychology is not a science. Psychology is a broad field. What people have to know is that Psychology != Emotions. Cognitive Psychology for example rarely deals with "feelings" at all (which is actually a fallacy of the field if you think about it because emotions affect how you process information). Like any science, Psychology has also an early history of poor science. (Look up Aristotle & Anatomy or Da Vinci & Flight.) Unfortunately, when people think of Psychology, people narrowly think of Sigmund Freud, sexual repression, etc. Freud WAS NOT a Psychologist. None of his work at the time under went testing. He made his claims and people took it for truth just because it made sense to some people. If you argued with him about the Oedipus complex, he would use circular logic and say "you just have unresolve issues with your mother. That's why you can't accept my claims." Most of Freud's claims has been refuted. His work is rarely mentioned past Intro Psychology courses.
Know what you are talking about especially if you are going to criticize a particular field of science. If you are going to make generalizations, back them up with specific examples. Know your sources of a work that you are reading, if possible, read the original.
Re:read the article (Score:1, Informative)
It's more likely to see parents with flexible hours, or one parent who left a job to raise the children. Additionally, the parents tend to be much older -- mid-40's isn't uncommon. These children also aren't in 30-child classrooms; they're in private schools (because almost everyone here who can afford it is in private school) with much smaller class sizes.
In short, it's clear from your comments that you're not familar with the reality of families in the Silicon Valley. While I don't necessarily approve of some of the excesses here, there's a much higher percentage of stay-at-home parents here than in many other places in the US.
CAN PEOPLE READ? (Score:2, Informative)
Obviously these people have never met children or adults with autism. I work with many students that barely have any verbal language at all, cannot go 5 minutes without stimming (arms flapping, humming, running, fingers flicking), and still aren't toilet trained at age 8. While my students on the other extreme may seem higher functioning because they have normal cognitive abilities, they are sometimes more puzzling and sadder. Children with Asperger's aren't simply the geniuses of today. Because they have average to above average IQs, they are expected to perform like everyone else. But since they lack many of the skills many of us take for granted, they are truly at a disadvantage. One of my children, who happens to have brilliant tech-minded parents, cannot answer yes/no questions (he usually echoes the last few words of the questions), cannot take turns unless cued, cannot attend to speakers, he's obsessed with lining things up, and has an uncanny ability to recognize how many items are in a group instantly. However, this kid at age 4 cognitively functions at age 6-7. You can't tell me that these aren't deficits and that it won't impact him.
I read several posts from people who simply don't know what they're talking about. And instead of responding like they think they know it all, maybe they should do some research. But I have to admit, many people have fallen victim to unqualified professionals that are too quick to slap a label on kids. I fully support current resources out there and ones trying to come online that would put parents and other professionals in contact with people who really do know what's going on, people who accept that they do not know everything, and people who continue to seek education and answers in the area of autism.