A Closer Look At D-VHS At DVDfile.com 201
great throwdini writes: "Peter M. Bracke of DVDfile.com
has written
a more thoughtful piece on D-VHS
(mentioned in the Slashdot article,
Copy-Protected Digital VHS)
based on his impressions of a press demonstration.
Says Fox's VP of Marketing, Peter Staddon,
'If we thought it (D-VHS) was going to kill DVD,
we wouldn't be doing it.'
Peter has even put together a nice little
factsheet
on the format.
Encryption may be absent on D-VHS tapes,
but it looks like the practice of region coding may continue."
You can't protect something... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:2)
That goes for DVD players hooked up to a computer via a capture card. Don't need a DVD drive!
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:2, Informative)
When will they learn? I mean, they should be the experts, right?
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:1)
I'm figuring most of 'them' have learned long ago already. It's just that they need to mention copy-protection because that's what the investors want to hear...
"Copy-protection" has merely become yet another buzzword.
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:1)
But there's something I find really amazing every time we have new copy-protection, compression, etc. Don't those people who invest their money, ever search for similar ideas from just few months ago?
So, When will they learn? By them I mean the investors.
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:2)
...
I'm figuring most of 'them' have learned long ago already.
What better business to be in than working on an impossible problem, and have extremely wealthy clients who refuse to believe it is impossible? Talk about job security.
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:1)
Maybe I don't get something here?
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:2)
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:1)
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:1)
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:1)
Not quite true (Score:1)
Macrovision takes advantage of inherent limitations of NTSC technology to embed scrambling and such into the NTSC signal. Taking advantage of the vertical blanking and other caveats, they can look just fine on your TV but will be unviewable if passed through another device. More info can undoubtedly be found on their website.
Now, there are doo-dads that will strip Macrovision from an analog stream, so it's not too intrusive, but I'm sure the propellor heads at Macrovision are eager to try out some new technologies that will screw up the present day anti-Macrovision gadgets. We will overcome, of course, because Macrovision of any type degrades the picture quality -- not noticeable on most TV's, but very noticeable on projector systems and anything that scales/deinterlaces video.
Re:Not quite true (Score:1)
It's true: 17 USC 1201(k) (Score:5, Informative)
I doubt its true but someone once told me that VCR's with RCA inputs had [to] include a macrovision chip to scramble the signal.
It's true. Page 4 of this LoC document [loc.gov] states that the DMCA requires new VCRs manufactured or sold in the United States to respond to automatic gain control and four-line colorstripe copy protection; both techniques are used in the Macrovision system. The relevant statute is 17 USC 1201(k) [cornell.edu].
Re:It's true: 17 USC 1201(k) (Score:2, Interesting)
I work with some video production equipment from time to time, I'm pretty sure that this doesn't apply to commercial grade VCRs. All of the adjustments I've seen are done manually, like so many other pieces of professional grade equipment. (Having a deck without manual adjustments would be like having a version of Photoshop with automatic color correction only.) Not being able to adjust gain manually would drive any video engineer I know nuts. Plus, I've worked with new (I believe post-DMCA) S-VHS decks and have copied Macrovision protected tapes no problem...
Which brings us to the (often quoted) next point: If one person can copy and share unprotected copies, what's the point in copy protection?
Re:It's true: 17 USC 1201(k) (Score:2)
I don't know what it takes for something to be categorized as commerical or professional grade, but when it's in that category, it can get around copy controls. S-VHS decks may all fall in this category, you don't often see them in normal setups.
Re:It's true: 17 USC 1201(k) (Score:2)
My child has just worn out of his favorite VHS tapes, which I attempted to make a back-up copy of because I knew it was going to occur. My contention is that Sony (the manufacturer of the Elmo recording) is responsible for replacing my worn out VHS because they chose to apply content protection that stopped from being able to make a back-up copy.
My expectation was that I would be able to make a back-up copy because VHS tapes are known to fragile. Sony's decisions to put content protection on a tape that I personally own clearly kept me from performing a normal operation. Therefore they should be responsible for replacing the tape.
The ability to make a back-up is important for several reasons. The most obvious reason is to protect the consumer's goods from normal usage and accidents. If the recording industry is allowed to kill off the ability to make back-ups, they could easily abuse the consumer by using cheap recording tapes that require regular replacement. Thus by Sony's actions in preventing the making of back-ups, and for the good of society, Sony should freely replace my worn-out tape.
Re:Sony's counterargument: expiry of warranty (Score:2)
I agree that Sony would bring the warranty up. Part of what makes this an interesting case, is the mixture of "contract" and "copyright" law. The manufacture's warranty is part of the contract, but there are a number of other contract considerations that come into play. They range from the "value" of the sale, rights given up or extended, customer expectations, etc.
I actually think the warranty will end-up being both a strength and weakness for Sony. On their plus side, they will be able to claim that they shown some responsibility for taking care of VHS defects. On the negative side, they admit that VHS has (or can acquire) defects. The policy of limiting back-ups of a medium that has known defects show how they can unfairly take advantage of the consumer.
A discovery order from the court could obtain Sony's internal documents showing the expected rate of deterioration of a VHS tape (they probably have pretty accurate details, since they manufacture tapes and decks). The discovery order could even produce a "smoking gun" memo that shows a x% increase in sales due to customers buying new copies to replace worn-out or damaged copies (now that they have been prevented from making back-up copies).
Realistically, I don't think small claims court is going to issue any sweeping discovery orders (although wouldn't it be cool). They are going base the decision primarily on contract law, and although INAL, I believe there is enough substance that this would have a good chance of prevailing.
Re:Not quite true (Score:2)
RF modulators will introduce signal degradation of their own (it's why when I recently snagged a TI-99/4A, I built a cable for it to pipe the composite video straight into a TV instead of using the RF modulator that came with it).
There are other devices that take composite video in and spit out Macrovision-free composite video. They used to sell for $40 or so and ran off a 9-volt battery for about a year. Radio-Electronics magazine even published plans for such a device back in 1988 or so, so a trip to the nearest library ought to turn up those plans. (You could also search Google [google.com] and find all sorts of newer devices that do the same thing with composite and/or S-video.)
The studios don't care (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The studios don't care (Score:2)
Personally, I think the digital protections will just be cracked, it's easier. However in the event that is not possible, the analogue recopy is acceptable.
Re:You can't protect something... (Score:1)
And kill VGA? (Score:1)
What about on computers with video cards that have analog output, but the operating system does not allow copying to analog?
Then the OS maker would be shooting itself in the foot, as the vast majority of the installed base of computer displays are VGA, and VGA is an analog video signal.
Need more information... (Score:1)
Re:Need more information... (Score:4, Funny)
No encryption but still region coded? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:No encryption but still region coded? (Score:2)
This is generally done for different reasons than what you state - it's usually done because geographical rights to distribute content are sublicensed out to other content distributors, and this guarantees that their contract will be enforced by the technology. Also the funky magic with release schedules probably is done to support the funkiness of first run release times in theaters - if a movie comes out much later in theaters in Australia than in the US, you don't want the Aussies to buy US DVDs and eat into theater revenue. And the release schedule staggering is done primarily to assess how well a movie does in its primary market before deciding how many theaters to release it in in the international markets, and to avoid spreading resources too thin on marketing (imagine having to coordinate marketing campaigns everywhere in the world at the same time).
So there are business reasons for this. I still think it's fucking stupid though, since the enthusiasts who would buy DVDs from other regions are the same people who will just get chipped DVD players and play them anyway, and the rest of the sheeple will deal with what they are spoon fed. So it doesn't accomplish dick in the end, IMHO.
Re:No encryption but still region coded? (Score:2)
> can't fault a business for acting like it's supposed to.
Where did this attitude come from? It's used to excuse everything a business does. I swear, if there was a loophope in the law that allowed businesses to grind girl-scouts into puree and sell it as luncheon meat, someone would be there saying that we can't blame a business for doing it...
"Bullshit," says I. We can blame a business for doing anything we'd blame a person for doing. Moreover, we should blame them for doing it.
If we don't hold businesses (and the people who run them) to some sort of standards we'll end up with a bunch of immoral fucktards running around, screwing everyone over, in the name of the almighty dollar regardless of the consequences.
That sort of world might be a Randian wet dream, but it's not the sort of place I want to live.
Re:No encryption but still region coded? (Score:2)
And who proposes those standards for businesses, pray tell? You? I think not. Me? You'd never stand for it.
The only thing we can do is set laws in place that tell us what the absolute boundaries are in business. To try and legislate ethics is a serious mistake, since there is no absolute standard.
As for a bunch of immoral fucktards running around, welcome to the 21st century. Wanna buy some GrrlSkout(TM)Luncheon Loaf? It's got pimientos in it ...
Thats the SECOND time! (Score:1, Offtopic)
Do I need to start using it in everyday speech??
-Restil
From Dictionary.com (Score:2, Informative)
n.
1. An unnecessary or wasteful project or activity.
2.
a. A braided leather cord worn as a decoration especially by Boy Scouts.
b. A cord of braided leather, fabric, or plastic strips made by a child as a project to keep busy.
Re:Thats the SECOND time! (Score:1)
Thanks!
I'm going to wait for... (Score:3, Interesting)
One can only hope that a blue laser DVD would get improved compression algorithms for fewer artifacts, better sound, and much better resolution (1080p anyone?). Unfortunately, I have a very funny feeling that Hollywood and the media moguls will not release any new DVD technology until they find something much, much stronger than CSS to safeguard it. We'll crack it, of course, but how long will it take, and how cumbersome will it be to do so?
Re:I'm going to wait for... (Score:1)
Find a friend with a progressive scan DVD player, Shrek, and an HDTV screen, and you will think differently.
Re:I'm going to wait for... (Score:2)
Of course, I'd still rather watch it on film, though a good DLP setup looks better than bad film projection.
Re:I'm going to wait for... (Score:2)
I'd think that uncompressed (or artifact free at any rate, which isn't too hard to do, if you do dynamic bitrate tweaks and suggest sections of the picture of more careful compression, which imho is what should be part of making a good DVD) digital would be far superior to something that hit film at any stage. Or, at least, to anything that wasn't pulled off of film immediately in the production process.
You sure your name isn't filmfan?
Re:I'm going to wait for... (Score:2)
That said, it is much more important to originate on film than it is to project on film -- it's at the front end that you really really need all the latitude that you can get. There's at least 7 or 8 more stops of latitude available on film than on video (HD included). It would be much easier to show you why that is important than to try to explain, but suffice it to say that you have to be very precise about what tiny slice of image you want to capture (in terms of luminosity) and hope that you made the right decision about what information you are throwing out, whereas on film you can delay that decision till post production when it is no longer a destructive one.
Re:I'm going to wait for... (Score:2)
The only way I notice film is when it's bad, and it seems to be very often. Almost every time I go to the theatre I see a ton of noise in the picture. Even when I saw FotR three days after it opened, this picture was bad, and this was in a Silver City (fancy theatre chain) which I'd assume should look better than most other theatres. But I guess the issue here is with the film stock they distribute it on, not the film they shoot it on.
Re:I'm going to wait for... (Score:2)
Interesting, none of the movies DVD's ive seen are. They all seem to be stored in 24fps, progressive format. The DVD spec does allow for 30fps interlaced, whihc I've seen used for extra content and so on, but all the movies themsevles are actully in the orignal 24fps format. I assume the telesine process is then done by the hardware along with the pulldown for anamorphic discs and so on.
Re:I'm going to wait for... (Score:2)
from 'light.cc'
--
light redLight, blueLight;
redLight.setWavelength(700nm);
blueLight.setWavelength(400nm);
redLight.getResolution();
blueLight.getResolution();
--
% light.exe | decipherResults
Red light has a large resolution
Blue light has a very small resolution
-Therefore blue light methods allow more compact data storage on an optical disc-
%
I apologize for this post...too much caffeine in me...
Re:I'm going to wait for... (Score:2)
Re:I'm going to wait for... (Score:2)
All you need is a trully bored cracker with his favorite new DVD format copy-protected...
My guess - even the most heavily copy protected new DVD format wouldn't take more then 30-60 days to be hacked...
Region coding? (Score:1)
Do you have to play the beginning of the tape to prove to the player that that the tape is valid?
Or is there something built into the case of the tape that the player sees?
Or is there a code embedded in the information at all times?
Re:Region coding? (Score:2)
Region Coding (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Region Coding (Score:1)
As the saying goes - "America screwed it up... now the rest of the world can live with it"
Re:Region Coding (Score:2)
But I can't tell if you were saying that too in a sarcastic way or not.
Re:Region Coding (Score:2)
The reall ironic thing (Score:3)
Creating the very thing their ancestors sought to eliminate
OT - mlife? (Score:1)
Nobody knows what mlife is. You know why? Because they thought "Hey, if we buy some ad time for the SuperBowl, we could get a billion hits on the website", but didn't pause to think "What's gonna happen to our servers if we get a billion hits?"
Re:OT - mlife? (Score:1)
Re:OT - mlife? (Score:1, Informative)
http://www.internet news.com/IAR/article/0,,12_966711,00. html
Remove the spaces and watch out when cutting and pasting with commas
iLink == FireWire ? (Score:1)
Isn't iLink just the Sony name for FireWire?
Re:iLink == FireWire ? (Score:2)
Nope, they're slightly different, FireWire being the more flexible of the two.
Firewire provides power over the bus. iLink doesn't. So, any FireWire _or_ iLink device can be plugged into a FireWire port and should theoretically work fine, but FireWire devices that draw power from the bus won't work from an iLink port.
< tofuhead >
Re:iLink == FireWire ? (Score:2, Informative)
But the truth still is that the IEEE standard defines both 6pin and 4pin connectors (with or without power, respectively)
iLink and FireWire are only the brand names. Of course, Sony uses only 4pin ports, and Apple sports 6pins everywhere... (althought I think the original documents Apple sent to IEEE did include both types of port)
From IEEE 1394 FAQ (Score:2)
The name FireWire, which was coined by Apple, is still used by a few vendors. Others have adopted the name i.Link, which is trademarked by Sony Corp., and has become a popular moniker for 1394-enabled products and technology in Japan."
Guess it could be a little out of date then and iLink is now equivilent with 4 pin, Firewire with 6 pin, but I don't think that's been put down anywhere as official names. The IEEE standard defines both though, 4 pin being without power and 6 pin with.
Kjella
Re:iLink == FireWire ? (Score:2)
In light of my post above as well as this one, I think I should clarify.
You'll find that Sony devices typically use the 4-pin connectors on their iLink devices. These plugs do not carry power. FireWire plugs with 6 pins can carry power. So, if you throw a 4-6 pin adapter in the mix somewhere, you just have to make sure that no device connected in that fashion needs to draw power from the bus.
< tofuhead >
Software? (Score:2)
So, is there any real benefit directly for the consumer with D-Theater? Yes. Aside from offering a copy protection studio safe enough to compel the studios to release HD material as prepackaged media at all
The studios shouldn't be compelled by encryption, they should be compelled by consumer's desire for their product. If consumers are not the #1 driving factor behind a product aimed solely at consumers then there is a problem here. Someone has gotten so big that consumer desire will exist regardless of what they do.
Hint: They're not compelled at all... (Score:3, Insightful)
What the movie industry realizes is that this is the last time they can do this. Maybe we're there already with DVD. DVD audio never took off and simply won't, because the CD is "good enough" (considering that most people find 128kbps mp3 good enough, well...)
Kjella
thoughtful?! (Score:2)
Ever the skeptic, I greeted the announcement yesterday and went into the demo with tremendous trepidation. I have devoted every single day of the last four years of my life to the DVD format, and have hundreds of well-earned discs to prove it, so how could I not greet the arrival of a new format with anything but a nervous gulp? ... HD is simply the Holy Grail of home theater and the demos bore this out.
Sounds more fanzine-ish [aint-it-cool-news.com] than serious journalism. But I guess slashdot is like that on other stuff [apple.com], so I shouldn't be too surprised.
Re:thoughtful?! (Score:2)
These people are great at what they do, but they do it because they love it - you can't say that Martin Scorcese is a bad director because he loves film, so why should those who work in other areas of the industry be any different?
one word: (Score:1)
How many people do you see walking around with portable DAT players? Not many. Whoever concocted the idea of D-VHS forgot the number ONE feature of DVD, that's even better than the quality:
You don't have to rewind a TAPE!
Re:one word: (Score:2)
It's inevitable that random-access (disc/disk) technology will catch up. Rewriteable DVD stores 4.7 Gbytes on a relatively affordable disc now, but that's only one-quarter of the available storage on one of these D-VHS tapes. Presuming that it takes a few years for a suitably large random-access medium to emerge, I imagine that D-VHS will fill a hole in the current high-definition market for a while.
MPAA's answer to Morpheus? (Score:2)
I know they'll never do this, but if they did, it'd negate the need to use Morpheus/Kazaa/Clone. I think the main reason that people do download TV shows from it is that they cannot be acquired otherwise. If they made the whole series avaialable, well then I'd understand their case to prevent Morphues from being used legally.
Re:MPAA's answer to Morpheus? (Score:2)
The reason that neither group are going with this idea is that they see themselves more in control of the content than the medium and use the content to force you to buy what they want you to buy. CD quality audio would be a great thing, for instance, if I didn't have to buy albums with one song I like and 12 songs I don't like (which is what makes CDs so cost-ineffective in my book to begin with).
Until media companies start saying "we own the right to stamp this work onto X medium" instead of "we own the work," this just won't happen.
MPAA should support more kinds of media... (Score:2)
For example, I want to buy lower quality versions of movies on a DVD format like that used on the Game Cube. It'd require using a lossier format like DivX, but it means the discs are more portable. Less bulkier, and the quality loss would be acceptable for this portability.
Too bad they're not more open to these ideas. They'd rather sue me for implementing this myself.
Why would you want wearable DVD players? (Score:2)
For example, I want to buy lower quality versions of movies on a DVD format like that used on the Game Cube. It'd require using a lossier format like DivX, but it means the discs are more portable.
What point would there be to making it smaller other than to make it handheld or otherwise wearable? And why would you want to make a medium that requires a user's full attention wearable? Movies aren't like CD audio, which a fellow can listen to while walking down the street.
Less bulkier
The box for a DOL disc is the same size as the box for a DVD. (DOL discs are the Nintendo GameCube's optical medium.) This shows that DVDs are already "portable enough" in that you can easily move them from one DVD player to another.
So I can travel. (Score:2)
For a few reasons:
1.) I want it to fit in my pocket. I need a really big pocket to fit a CD player, but halve the size and now you're talking.
2.) I can carry a bunch of disks with me as well as the drive. Again, this has to fit in my pocket. Why? Because I want to take this with me when I travel.
3.) Less likely to skip during a bumpy trip. This, of course, is theoretical, but I'm pretty sure that since the disks are a lot smaller, they are less likely to wobble around when it gets bumpy. This is another must-have when travelling.
I never said anything about wearable, I just want more portability. I have RSI so my wrists hurt when carrying something like a heavy book around, so I want my devices to be pocket sized so I don't have to hold them. Today I can buy a portable DVD player, but it doesn't fit in my pocket.
"The box for a DOL disc is the same size as the box for a DVD. (DOL discs are the Nintendo GameCube's optical medium.) This shows that DVDs are already "portable enough" in that you can easily move them from one DVD player to another."
I honestly don't follow this comment at all. If you are talking about the box that the disc comes in, aka the box that is sold on the shelf, then that has nothing to do with the discs being 'portable enough.' It has to do consumers recognizing that Game Cube games are just as good as PS2 or XBOX games. Nintendo could very easily fit a GCN game into a Game Boy Advance box, but that'd likely confuse people into thinking that they're getting a GBA game instead.
If you mean the CD case for these discs, that's not very conclusive either. I want these things to fit in my pocket without concern of breaking them. That is not an unreasonable desire. Nobody has ever complained about technology making things smaller as long as the interface is good.
But it's still a tape format, correct? (Score:5, Interesting)
All I can say is that I never watched movies much. I don't like going to the theater for a large variety of reasons. I did watch movies on VHS (sometimes) but I found it somewhat inconvient. Having to rewind, the slow fast-forward, the bad picture quality you can get (especialy when paused). But when DVD came along, I fell in love with movies again. The quality is fantastic (and I'm using a PS2 to play them on a 27" analogue sony TV, so it's not like I'm useing $50,000 worth of equiptment). I like being able to jump anywhere in the movie, how the screen is crystal clear when the movie is paused. I love how I can watch movies on the road with my laptop and all the interesting extra features that can be added to DVDs (deleted scenes, little almost "pop-up-video-esque" info like on the Akira DVD, etc). D-VHS may look good, but it seems to me that it might end up as just another laserdisc. Used by moviephiles, but not by the public at large. Maybe it will even become the Betamax to DVD's VHS, a different format that's good, and is used, but not as much. It will be interesting to see.
As for the here and now, I see three problems: first and formost, I don't have $2000 to blow on something that I can't rent movies for at my local blockbuster. Second, DVDs already have a huge install base and are a goliath to go up against. And third, very few people (remember that /.ers are disperportionatly techy) have HDTVs. So for someone with only a normal, analogue TV like me, would I see any benifit over DVD?
Just some random museings.
Ready... Set... Moderate!!!
Re:But it's still a tape format, correct? (Score:2)
Are you so sure? What's the oldest DVD you have? Are you sure it will be still playable in 25 years? The lifetime of the technology has yet to be proven, since it hasn't been around long enough to wear out. I remember reading somewhere that the estimated lifetime of a CD or DVD was around 20 years, but I can't remember where that was. If someone would post the information I'm sure it would be useful to this thread.
Re:But it's still a tape format, correct? (Score:1)
DVD-R and DVD+R discs are expected to last anywhere from 40 to 250 years, about as long as CD-R discs.
The erasable formats (DVD-RAM, DVD-RW, and DVD+RW) are expected to last from 25 to 100 years.
That's assuming (Score:2)
Re:But it's still a tape format, correct? (Score:1)
You don't have kids, do you? (Score:2)
CD's on the other hand are just DESTROYED by kids. Finger prints, weird scratches, you name it. If it's a kids educational CD and they have access to it and think they can play with it, it'll get wrecked.
I guess it's all perspective on longevity...
Re:But it's still a tape format, correct? (Score:2)
1) D-VHS is cheap to record to, DVD is not. At least for the time being that is. I happen to own a , and can make perfect quality duplicates from my satilite dish, for little more than the cost of a tape. [jvc-victor.co.jp]
2) It does not cost $2000. Not even close. In fact, when I bought my deck 2 years ago, I paid $300, as long as I subscribed to a year of sattilite TV (which by the way, I am still using).
I'm sure this technology can be made cheaper if you get rid of the sattilite reciever.
3) Tapes are still here. Yes, they will be done with within the next 5 to 7 years. I have a collection of over 200 VHS tapes, and replacing them all with DVD's is not an option (I don't run a software monopoly). Sure, I will probably never buy another tape in my life, but I still need something to watch them on. Granted, not everyone wants or needs a new VCR, so I can understand if they don't want one.
4) THIS IS NOT MEANT TO REPLACE DVD!!! This is meant for an alternative for people who don't want to abandon thier massive tape collection (well, they can keep thier VCR and buy a DVD player, but face it, can the average person hook both up at the same time?) and at the same time want high-quality movies. Also, this makes a good "middle-step" for those who don't want to dive into DVD recorders (and who would until a real universal standard is reached?).
Just some replies to "random museings" (sic.)
DAT (Score:3)
Re:DAT (Score:1)
Re:DAT (Score:2)
DCC (Digital Compact Cassette), was a single sided cassette that was the same size as a standard analog cassette, and players could play the old tapes too. I never actually saw a player, or any media.
I see this D-VHS as almost a perfect analog (pun intended) to DCC.
No Problem for Studios (Score:1)
More technical questions (Score:2)
Will data on tape be encrypted itself? Or will the copy protection just be a few bits indicating a flag to permit/prohibit copy, like DAT? If the latter, then expect for this to be broken quickly, like the DAT copy protection scheme.
DCC nightmare all over again! but now with video.. (Score:1)
When are these guys are gonna see that TAPE IS DOOMED!!! for most common uses anyway... Think microdisks, optical, flash, whatever but please: FORGET ABOUT TAPE!!!
Easy way around this (Score:3, Interesting)
This is the 21st century. There's no need to have direct access between the tape and the viewer. You put in a hard drive to buffer the tape (think Tivo), have the tape read at speeds that we currently associate with "fast forward," and by the time you're finished watching the stupid FBI warning and trailers the movie is already on the hard drive. Viola: random access.
DVD is more convient than tape (Score:2, Insightful)
I think the reason most people like DVDs better than VHS tapes is the picture quality, it is smaller than a tape, you can start at any chapter immediately instead of fast forwarding for about 10 minutes, and no need to rewind it when done watching it.
The MPAA would get a whole bunch of people pissed off at them if they killed DVD. And I would be one of them.
All bull shit all of it... (Score:1)
Ok, lets build one: Disk or Tape? What happened to those new multi-layer disks that were gonna start at 50GB each? gimme one of those. Compression? lets go with mpeg, seeing as everyone else has. Encryption? yes, you can encrypt disks with PGP or whatever. Type in a password to watch, that will stop people looking at the secret spy-work i've been filming, no sorry Holywood, not for you, you can't encrypt anything. Obviously the disks need to be recordable (hmm, or maybe we'll use tape). Put some basic interactivity in -> html, bit of java script, maybe even swf, but nothing that will let anyone take control of your player though. Region encoding? go stick it up your ass, ok, now all we need is some basic file structure, let you include subtitles, multi-sound tracks etc. etc. and we're away, one last thing, lets encode films _at_ 24fps! then watch them, not on tvs, but on decent screens that can actually display 24fps (or double or triple refresh rate or whatever) with out having to either speed the film up (pal) or put it through a NASA supercomputer to do some sort of time-stretching pull-down qauntum magic (ntsc).
DVD can be done today (Score:4, Interesting)
The box manufacturers could make a DVD system today that would store enough data to record a movie and all the associated goodies in HDTV.
All they gotta do is make a plastic shell (which represents one movie for instance) that holds two or three (ever how many it takes) DVDs that hold the data.
Then they build a DVD player that swallows that shell, reads the first DVD and plays it until it detects it is within lets say a minute of finishing the first half of the movie. The DVD player then buffers the last minute or so in RAM.
Then using the same technology that allows for CDROM switching in, lets say, car stereos the DVD player switches to the second DVD and buffers in the first minute of it as well.
With the last minute off the first disc buffered in and the first minute off the second disc buffered in there is no reason why a smooth transition couldn't be made and no glitches appear in the movie.
It's a fairly simple proposition, somebody just needs to sit down and do it.
I cannot remember the guy's name at Sony (I think it was the President, CEO, or whatever they got) who came up with the shirt pocket size diskette, the walkman, etc. but that's the kinda person who needs to get the ball really rolling.
Not some pinheads who cannot see past the end of their rich, conceited, lazy noses.
Thanks for listening
Re:DVD can be done today (Score:3, Informative)
It's something no one's thought of (Score:2)
Check out HDTV, then see if it makes sense (Score:2)
It's all about quality. Ever since I got my HDTV, I find it difficult to watch standard (Lo-Res) TV. After watching High Definition movies on HBO-HD, DVD's look poor by comparison.
I will probably buy one of the D-VHS units, because I want the best quality I can get. I would rather have HD-DVD, but I'll use D-VHS for the five years until HD-DVD arrives.
Data flow makes D-VHS interesting (Score:1)
Blue laser DVDs have yet to approach the $2000 level, so we'll count them out for at least over a year. Also, they'll suffer the same flaw as the early DVD crop of being record only. If you just want to watch movies, that's great.
But D-VHS offers a way to not only playback but also record high-def. D-VHS is the tape (yes...it's a tape format, but it's a digital tape format which makes all the difference) but the deck offers Firewire as possible I/O. Currently, the IEEE 1394 works great to pass compressed HD signals. Within a year or so, the spec should be up to handling a full 1.5 Gb/sec, which will allow it to pass uncompressed HD on consumer-grade equipment.
Home PC based editing software (like Final Cut Pro) is quite capable right now of working in High-Def resolutions...the downside is the inability to export this to anything but a file format. Push it through firewire, layoff to D-VHS, and you've got a whole new reach.
Give me HD DVD. (Score:2)
There should be an HD DVD standard coming out SOON! It would have been nice to have had HD support in from the first day and just start using it when needed. That way they could release movies in standard definition with tons of extras, or use the space for an HD version. I'd love that.
It sucks that movies on HBOHD look better than those on my DVD player.
Sure, why not? (Score:3, Interesting)
As for DVDs, even if DVD recorders eventaully trickle down to the home entertainment market, unless some true genius figures out how to make holographic recording cheap and easy recordable DVDs will always be half-capacity compared to commercially stamped ones. You can buy a two hour movie but can only record one hour of television. Sure, you could cut the quality of the recording and squeeze more in, but you could do the same thing to a 120 minute tape at twice the capacity.
I've already got time and effort devoted into a VHS collection and, no matter how big my DVD collection may get, I won't be getting rid of my tapes. So long as this new digital VHS standard is recordable like my old VHS recorder, I see no real reason not to get this (beyond the cost factor that is).
I'm already thinking about getting a new VCR anyway since I'd like to at least have one in stereo. My next big purchase will probably be a digital television (the idea of having a 36"+ computer monitor makes me moist) and maybe an HDTV receiver. Right now I don't intend on getting a new computer because come May my PS2 will be able to do everything I would have wanted a new PC to do. So, really... why not?
Re:Sure, why not? (Score:2)
A lower bit-rate means lower quality. If you want to halve the bit rate in order to double the recording time, you halve the quality. Just like with a slower speed setting on a VHS tape.
"Use both sides and both layers"
Again, unless some genius figures out how to bring holographic recording to the home, consumer-grade recordable DVDs won't have two layers. This is why their capacity is halved compared to commercial DVDs.
Macrovision (Score:3, Interesting)
Macrovision is defeatable. I have a device right now that strips away the macrovision signal and replaces it with a regular video signal.
Why do I have this?
My TV only has one RCA input on it. In order to select my DVD from my IR remote, I have it hooked into the system through one of my VCRs. In doing so, I fall into Macrovision's trap, and my DVD's video signal get's goobered by the VCR. I don't want this to happen, since I'm not actually taping the DVD, I just wanna watch it with convenience.
Last I heard, devices such as these were legal to buy, legal to own, and legal to use ... so long as all you were doing was viewing a program (this was in pre-DVD/pre-DMCA days though). There are certain brands of VCR/TV combinations that respond to a Macrovision signal on a VHS tape, despite there being no second VCR to muck up the video ... and this device allows them to properly view their legally purchased VHS tapes.
If your intention is to take a Macrovision protected VHS or DVD and pipe it into a Video Capture card that repsonds to Macrovision, then there is no reason that a similar device shouldn't be able to "fix" the video signal for you.
FWIW, I bought mine out of a "Radio Electronics" type magazine ... way in the back, there was an ad for one. You can buy one ready-made, or you can probably find the schematics on-line and build your own. If I recall properly, I paid ~$20-$40 for mine. Totally worth the dough...
And yes ... a device like this *does* make it possible for you to copy a commercial VHS tape, or a DVD that's protected with Macrovision. However, a friend tells me you could have always done this ... if you dump the signal to say, a (high-end) Beta machine. :-)
Never mind recording video... (Score:2, Interesting)
OK, the 140GB disks around the corner mean it wouldn't be a perfect solution, but it would still be a very attractive one.
All tape doomed anyway. (Score:2)
This could also have the effect that codec wars would die out as well. Why use one when you could record raw onto it? (well except for those Dr Who marathons) A DVD player that would not need decryption/encryption is cheaper to make.
As data backup it would be great I could store approximately 450 CD's in MP3 format on a single disk. Imagine a portable player for that baby! I'm drooling already.
Unfortunatly this tech is still about 2yrs away. I can't wait!
There is a small consolation however - I've seen a new DVD-RW drive showing up here. It's a HP CD-RW [hp-at-home.com] drive recently advertised at $599us. Hm.. wonder if it does VCD's as well.
D-VHS as a backup medium (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:D-VHS as a backup medium (Score:2)
Of course, I could be totally wrong on this...it's mostly dependent on the quality of the tape involved...but judging the average quality of videotape out there, I'd say I wouldn't trust it for backups.
Didn't they try this with DAT? (Score:2, Interesting)
Crashx99
Carrot and stick (Score:2, Interesting)
The copy protection has to be crackable... (Score:2)
Consider the radar detector. Some of the same companies who make the detectors are the same ones who make the police radar guns. For every police radar gun they sell, they sell 1000+ detectors. Would anyone manufacture laser radar guns, UNLESS there were laser detectors ready to ship in 6 months?
IMHO, there is not much of a market for unhackable, undefeatable hardware.