TiVo Watches the Super Bowl 377
Boone^ writes: "While millions of people were seeing a tremendous football game, TiVo was busy collecting statistics about the Super Bowl viewing habits of its subscribers. Based on a random sampling of 10,000 of the 280,000 subscribers, they found out that Pepsi/Britney was the subject of the most replayed Ad(s), and not surprisingly the play that got the most attention was Vinatieri's game-winning FG."
Ads more popular than the game (Score:2, Interesting)
Now there's a commentary on why people watch the Super Bowl...
Re:Ads more popular than the game (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ads more popular than the game (Score:2, Insightful)
My coworkers are big soccer (football) fans, and they use the Tivo to create their own instant replays, because unlike football, the networks don't really replay much for you...
Re:Ads more popular than the game (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Ads more popular than the game (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm a Replay customer myself, but six in one and half-dozen in the other... one thing I love about it is during a game if I get a phone call or knock at the door I can pause the live game, handle the interrupt, and pick up right where I left off 20 minutes (or whatever) later - I don't miss a play, and by having those minutes spooled I can quickly bypass commercials.
Another thing I've found by accident - not everthing that happens during the game gets replayed. There was one instance during a Tribe game (near the playoffs, IIRC) where some ditzy chick-reported asked a few totally fluff-ball questions of a guest (a scout for the Mariners, I think). At the end of the interview she tosses it back to the booth, and while the video switches away the mics are still open and we get to hear the interviewee ask "I waited three innings for THAT!" It would have been difficult to pick up exactly what happened without your own instant-replay.
And one last little benefit - I don't record football games, but because of the instant replay I was able to archive to tape the infamous Browns/Jaguars debacle this year, in all it's bottle-throwing obscenity screaming glory.
Replaying the commercials (Score:3, Funny)
I study the computer graphics in commercials (Score:2)
A survey FOR the advertisers (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, one of the reasons people watch the Superbowl is FOR the ads. I don't think I've ever watched a single ad when fast-forwarding through Battle-Bots.
-S
Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:2, Interesting)
So everyone is cool with this then? I haven't seen a major /. story of Tivo aka Big Brother. Shouldn't this be under YRO?
Re:Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah. Take a look at this report, which goes into some technical detail about what your TiVo sends back (they watched the modem line as data transferred):
http://www.privacyfoundation.org/privacywatch/ report.asp?id=62&action=0 [privacyfoundation.org]
Your TiVo machine basically just sends its syslog home every night, complete with information like this:
Except it's transmitted in a form that looks like this:
and of course it's anonymized, traceable only to your zipcode.
The PrivacyFoundation.org report linked above broke the news that the way the anonymized data is FTP'd up to TiVo's homebase leaves a way that an insider employee (or an unscrupulous, lying company) could potentially correlate your syslog to your name, instead of just your zipcode. I've no idea whether TiVo has changed its practices after the report came out two years ago, but I'm not aware of them having done so.
Re:Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:5, Informative)
Tivo is actually very aware of privacy issues. Anytime it makes a change to it's privacy policy, however minor, it sends a email to its subscribers explaining what the change is, and why it was made. You can't say that about many companies.
Re:Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:2)
I'm sorry, but the information can be linked to you. Start with the fact that the uploaded data is in a file whose name depends on the time of the call. All I have to do is go to UUNET[*] (the ISP that TiVo calls) and ask for their call logs. With these call logs, I can put 2+2 together and (with the callerID in the UUNET logs) get your phone number. Once I have your phone number, I can get your name, address, etc. I'll leave the rest to your imagination.
[*] Note: you never signed up with UUNET, and UUNET never gave you any assurances about the privacy of your calls.
Re:Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:2)
Re:Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:2, Insightful)
Personally I would prefer to watch ads that are customised for me. If that's what's paying for the show I'm watching then they may as well be interesting.
Think of it like this: They have a table with your name and account number on. They have another that records what programmes were watched by what account number. The only real problem appears when the two are put together; and even then it depends who is going to receive the information and how easy it is for them to get it.
Re:Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:2)
Exactly. What may seem harmless (like tracking which television shows you watch) can become harmful when combined with other data such as criminal records, which MP3's you download, how much alcohol you purchase at the grocery store, your votes on /. polls, etc. What's even worse is that they could do it in the name of "Homeland Defense(TM)" and everyone would be perfectly OK with it. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but the potential for some really bad stuff to come about is there (and has always been there.)
hmmm (Score:4, Funny)
Re:hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
And to get the inside scoop on Britney, more specifically, her magically morphing chest, be sure to check out The Mystery of Britney Spears' Breasts! [ifilm.com] from our friends at Ifilm.com [ifilm.com].
Let's see Katz do a review on that!
Did anyone *skip* commercials? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Did anyone *skip* commercials? (Score:2)
Re:Did anyone *skip* commercials? (Score:2)
Not forgetting anything (Score:2)
Re:Not forgetting anything (Score:2)
Hell With That! (Score:3, Funny)
Tivo owners watch the Super Bowl? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know, it doesn't seem right. Shouldn't they be downloading Linux or trying to destroy the WTO or something?
What's this world coming to...
Re:Tivo owners watch the Super Bowl? (Score:3, Funny)
It was held at night, indoors, and we were all watching Britney.
Re:Tivo owners watch the Super Bowl? (Score:3)
I wonder how accurate ad stats such as these are (Score:2, Interesting)
There are countless reasons that I might leave an ad playing or change channels during the ads, other than just "like to watch that ad/don't like to watch that ad".
Re:I wonder how accurate ad stats such as these ar (Score:2, Interesting)
This is not a bad thing (Score:5, Funny)
I don't want them to know that the data comes from *me*, but I certainly have no objection to them knowing what is watched so maybe they'll make more programs I like.
This is a *good* thing.
I AGREE - I Don't understand the naysayers AT ALL. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:think a little further (Score:2)
Re:This is not a bad thing (Score:3, Insightful)
Why on earth is this marked as funny? I think the poster was serious, and I agree with him 100% We tend to here a lot of griping around here when somone is collecting information on us, but I'll tell them almost anything they want to know if it can genuinly improve my life. I DO NOT want them to know and single out me specifically, but if they can figure out that everyone starts channel surfing when a certain over-sized whiny voiced obnoxious celebrity pops onto our screen for a commercial, shouldn't we be gratefull?/p.
For those of us outside the USA... (Score:2)
All I've heard about so far is some undefined beer advert, but apparently that wasn't the only popular one.
Re:For those of us outside the USA... (Score:2, Informative)
Unfortunately they're only available in Windows Media format, but MSNBC [msnbc.com] has a good list of this year's highlights [msnbc.com], as well as a bunch of classic ads from the past Super Bowls.
Re:For those of us outside the USA... (Score:3, Informative)
The page is here [ifilm.com]
Max Headroom (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Max Headroom (Score:2)
In order to collect the real-time stats you mention, it would required a constant connection. Most people wouldnt stand for that since, if they have one, they like to use their phone for other reasons.
There are PVRs that have broadband connectivity, that very well could send real-time data to the mothership. As has been discussed here and other palces many times, there's a sizeable limit to the availabilty of broadband that phone access just doesnt encounter.
Besides, those broadband capable PVR's are more costly for the startup fee, and I dont think they are hackable either.
Re:Max Headroom (Score:2)
Hardly. Hell, I'm all for it, if it would mean that us TiVo geeks could have Futurama pre-empt the last 30 minutes of a late-running stupid NFL game, instead of the other way around like it is now.
~Philly
What they won't tell their advertisers (Score:2, Interesting)
One of the great ways to watch 'ordinary' football games is to let the TiVo record the game but don't start watching until about half-way through.
You enable the 30 second skip and every time the ball is blown dead, you punch it and they're playing again! Commercial comes on, punch it 2 to 6 times and presto, they're playing again.
If you start about 90 minutes into the game, you'll finish in close to real time watching the end of the game. I love it!
Super Bowl Ads Online (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.ifilm.com/superbowl [ifilm.com]
Although alot of the various companies also have their ads up on their corporate sites
Re:Super Bowl Ads Online (Score:4, Interesting)
If buying drugs makes you no better than a terrorist...
Then why doesn't resorting to blatantly false propaganda and scare tactics make you any better than a communist?
~GoRK
Run for the wooods... (Score:2)
You know if your *really* worried about this then
you should cancel all of your credit cards and move
to the deep woods now. Many companies can already
find out detailed and personal information about you
just by looking at the data they already have in
their databases.
Ever shop at Walmart? Someone I know made a sales
call to a top IT manager at Walmart a *few* years
ago. It was his second trip there. During the
intial banter the IT manager asked the guy if he
rembered his toothbrush this time. Apparently
the guy did a query on all of his recent purchases
and noticed that among his purchases on his last visit was a toothbrush. It totaly blew my freinds
mind.
Many businesses have just this kind of detailed
info on you already. They're only going to collect more and more, and there's not much you
can do about it unless you become a hermit.
Re:Run for the wooods... (Score:3, Insightful)
There are so many ways to collect personal data about your habits. People put up with it because
it means they can save money or it provides a
significant convenience.
<off-topic>
Example: Most supermarkets in my area now give
discounts only to holders of their courtesy cards,
rather than by using coupons. For awhile the
clerk would use their card if you didn't have
yours but they've stopped doing that now.
They really want to collect that personal
marketing data on you.
</off-topic>
Before everyone starts protesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Privacy people tend to get all spazzy on here, and work everyone else up into a tizzy, and in the case of Tivo, its not even remotely warranted.
This sort of thing is what keeps Tivo going. This is a new market and it takes a long time to start breaking even. I have zero problem with Tivo doing this, if it allows me to continue using their service which, frankly, I can't imagine having to do without.
Tivo has been a company that from day one has been extremely concerned about privacy rights, and open communication with their users. If you spend any time browsing the Tivo forums at http://www.tivocommunity.com you'll see that not only do they have a powerful support presense, they are very open about what they collect, how its analyzed, and how its sold. People in the underground community independantly verified what they were saying.
So, basically, everyone relax. Step away from the keyboard, and go unpause Jerry Springer on the Tivo. That's where the real excitement is, not here.
Re:Before everyone starts protesting... (Score:3, Interesting)
Enable backdoors. Then use the keystroke sequence that allows you to view log file (it might be Select, Clear, Select, Instant Replay, Select or something like that--check out tivocommunity.com [tivocommunity.com] and search for "backdoors". Then look at the file containing a log of all your remote control presses. Now don't tell me not to get in a tizzy because it isn't "warranted".
If they did that to you at work on your computer, I'd bet you'd be in a tizzy. I'll bet if the version of XP you're using at home did that, you'd be in a tizzy. The fact that it's TiVo and that it's an undoubtedly cool product does not in any way make this right. I support TiVo--I subscribe to their monthly service, I use my TiVo faithfully, but it does not make this sinister tactic right, especially when they send me e-mails and messages to the TiVo about how much they value my privacy.
Maybe you're not so bothered by it, but there's no way you can justify what they're doing simply because it's new technology and they need to get a foothold. They need to get a clue.
Okay I'll bite. (Score:3, Redundant)
So you want me to go see whats in my log files. Since I'm at work, I can't play with the silly backdoors, but since I know a pretty fair amount about how the Tivo works, I have two options available to me. One, I can log into my Tivo over the web and look at the reports there. Or I can look through the entire MFS database on the Tivo for anything I find suspect. But I've done that before and it got old too. Have you? I'm guessing not, since you seemed so excited about the backdoors.
So that aside, my other option is to just ssh into my Tivo. Easy enough, and I can go and just ftp off the syslog. But you know what? I was doing that a year and a half ago too, and it just isn't that interesting either. I know perfectly well what data gets sent up to Tivo. I know perfectly well that the serial number is used via HTTP basic authentication before data is uploaded or downloaded from Tivo. I also know perfectly well that they have said they do not correlate data with users, and I believe them because in two years I've never had a reason not to, and I've dealt pretty directly with Tivo. I also know that Tivo doesn't have the right information to really find out anything useful about me anyway, since they don't know what was on a channel at a given time anyway!. Want to know what else I know? Having worked with a number of companies in the past that write software for data mining demographic data sources, I can tell you for absolutely certain that the Tivo information isn't within two or three orders of magnitude as damaging to your privacy as the data collected when you go shopping and pay for anything with any tender other than cash. And walk there because you don't have a drivers license or car. And don't own or rent property.
Get real. I can't say you're being paranoid, but you're looking at the world with blinders... things are a whole lot worse than you think, and a whole lot more out of your ability to control than you think. Going after Tivo for what they are doing is just plain silly.
Re:Before everyone starts protesting... (Score:3, Insightful)
*Yawn*
This isn't my computer, this is my TV for christ's sake. Even *if* Tivo do break their word and sell this data on, I don't give a rat's ass. If an advertiser wanted to know what TV I watched, and could ask me in an un-obtrusive way, I'd tell 'em. Maybe it would improve the state of TV these days?
Everything has a cost. Part of the cost of using Tivo is that aggregated anonymous viewing data is sold on to third parties. This is made clear all over their website, and the docs, and you can opt out if you feel strongly. If you don't agree with the cost, don't buy the product.
*GASP* TiVo has a privacy policy! (Score:5, Informative)
Stop the FUD - you know you can. Anonymous, opt-out, what's the problem?
Jeff
For those Canadians/non-Americans... (Score:3, Informative)
I first found out about the since deceased AdCritic by looking for a place to check out the SB commercials, and it looks like these guys have filled that void for me.
For those of you who aren't aware, Canadian cable companies cut out the American commercials and insert our own, unique brand of crap in their place.
At least this year, there was a game worth watching!
I got a TV for Xmas and love it. (Score:2)
I am working for a start up and have long hours, but I still get to see every one of my favorite shows.
It can only record one channel at a time, but worse case I could always get my VCR to record a second show if I wanted to. There are rarely 2 shows on at the same time that I want to watch. I am lucky if there is one show on that I want to watch, so Tivo has really made tv watching fun again.
One of the cool things that it can do that a VCR can't is that you can watch a recording, while Tivo is recording another show.
It can only record about 15 hours of video at medium quality. I am going to put in the extra 80GB hard drive so that I can record another 60 hours of medium quality video. I want to record and store entire seasons of my favorite shows and then store them as DiVX on DVD-R. I should be able to fit about 9 hours of VHS quality video on every DVD-R
One of the cool things that Tivo could allow is that they could put on less popular shows on at 4am in the morning, and anyone that really wants to watch the show can have Tivo pick it up. It would also be cool to put on education classes on at night, or on a particular channel.
The data mining level is pretty astonishing (Score:3, Informative)
This data to advertisers is known as "gold dust"
advertisers could find out things like:
did you watch their advert if so how many times
did you forward or rewind it if so how far
did you cut the volume if so for how long
did you flip channel if so did you flip it back
when you flipped what advert did you see on the other channel
and just about any viewing habit data they choose , and guess what , your paying a subscription for this service so for Tivo this is a win win win situation and must be laughing in their condos on malibu beach.
now this report [privacyfoundation.org] is rather biased towards privacy and some say the report is flawed blah blah but the actual captured data logs are not.
Now whereas the data is "anonomous" it is linked to subscribers via postcode/zipcode and certainly here in the UK if i give my postcode to some companies they can tell exactly which house iam living in , not totally anonomous, and after all, they only need to know what the "house" is watching as everyone sits down and watches the same program together so individual advert profiling would be irrelavent.
devices like Tivo could work without selling this data to advertisers but the might hand of marketing is pretty good at persuasding poor companies that the financial recompence is worthwhile.
IMHO the whole point of a Tivo is data collection hence right from the start the units have been designed as profiling devices capturing all available statistical data, i mean what use is recording when i press volume buttons in determining that the simpsons is on and if i would like to watch it ?
the sooner people complain and see these companies for what they really are the better
Re:The data mining level is pretty astonishing (Score:2, Troll)
Have you read anything at all about TiVo besides the paranoid ramblings of various slashdotters?
IMHO the whole point of a Tivo is data collection hence right from the start the units have been designed as profiling devices capturing all available statistical data
Duh. TiVo said they would use this data for marketing and revenue purposes RIGHT FROM THE START. This isn't a big secret. They also allow you to opt out of the service!
the sooner people complain and see these companies for what they really are the better
uh-huh. how insulated is your private information? health records? drivers license info? credit history? and you are worried that someone is going to know you like to watch boobies bounce on tv?
I think Slashdot has finally reached the critical mass of morons
Re:The data mining level is pretty astonishing (Score:2)
Can anyone confirm this?
Re:The data mining level is pretty astonishing (Score:2)
You are correct, they tag the data with the ZIP code only. But: they do have your entire address sitting in some database on their servers. All that has to happen is for some "flunky" to SELECT the "wrong" columns, and voila! Your personal viewing habits have now been exposed to the marketers.
Re:The data mining level is pretty astonishing (Score:2)
It appears we have independent review of the information being sent back, and they are not using anything more unique than the 5-digit zip.
Re:The data mining level is pretty astonishing (Score:3, Insightful)
And if you don't want Tivo to collect your data at all, you can simply tell them not to. This is clearly stated in their terms and conditions [tivo.com] - and indeed in the PrivacyWatch report you quote [privacyfoundation.org]. Okay, you have to phone them, rather than pushing a button, but it's an offer they're under no obligation to make at all. And they even give you a toll-free number to call!
So I don't see any grounds for complaint. I mean, the users get a service they clearly love (see Slashdot stories passim) for a price they're happy to pay; the advertisers get invaluable data, freely given and broadly anonymous, again for a price they're happy to pay; and Tivo gets the revenue from both sides. Personally, I think that's wonderful. Tivo have managed to broker a stunning win-win business model, and best of luck to them.
What pisses me off most, actually... (Score:2)
Hey TiVo ... did you notice... (Score:2)
Re:Hey TiVo ... did you notice... (Score:2, Interesting)
programming fails to account for live sports
running over the alloted time, that's a big
flaw. Come to think of it, if it only gets
schedule info late at night over a phone line,
this would have to happen. Another good reason
they should move to an always-connected broadband
solution.
Re:Hey TiVo ... did you notice... (Score:2)
They know when you hit rewind?!?! (Score:2)
It will be a cold day in hell before one of those things ever enters my house.
Increase your paranoia... (Score:2)
the more information the better (Score:2)
I have two reservations:
(1) No individual data are made available.
(2) All results are made available to everyone.
I think the Brits, a couple whom authored "1984" and "Brave New World" are showing the proper direction. They put surveillence cams up everywhere. However they make much of the feed publically available. There is less opposition to more information when *everyone* has *full* access to it.
Beats the Neilsons (Score:2, Interesting)
I mean, seriously, the people filling out those forms are not going to put down that they watched the Playboy Channel for 8 straight hours; they're going to put down "Friends," "ER," and "60 Minutes" because it's what's expected of them.
Tracking viewing habits with DVR/PVRs can only help push the networks out of churning out the same old garbage year after year.
Tivo vs. Testing (Score:2, Interesting)
Testing works by essentially shoving groups of 12 people or so in remote cities in Wisconsin (or wherever represents a demographic mix) into a room and interviewing them, very very precisely. These people get a snack lunch and some money. Advertisers feel they get an accurate view of how the public will view a spot. I've seen plenty of commercials killed in testing (after all they money has been spent to make them) and it really pisses of the company and the ad agency.
They don't get mad at themselves, the usually get mad at the public. After all, all their previous research said this new potato chip would be huge...so it can't be their fault.
Tivo's ability to gather data on a individual and group level (like the whole zip code of that town in Wisconsin) is far faster than Nielsen ratings, more specific to an individual TV event like commercials or programming, and most likely useful to advertisers and programmers in general.
Britney? (Score:2)
She's a skank, plain and simple. The worst rolemodel for a young girl, and unfortunately she's got most of them in her evil clutches.
Besides, regarding her jingle, "...for those who think young," she got practically ever guy thinking young (of her), which is just wrong.
get over it. (Score:3)
Eventually, every (smart) company that grows to serve more than a handful of people has to treat those customers as statistics, even though they may claim to be providing incredibly "personal" service.
Some companies are more sophisticated at using the information at their disposal, and employ teams of data miners to sift through for patterns that'll benefit their business. Others aren't so clever and lose out on those chances.
But in either case, why expect both anonymity *and* privacy? There is no constitutional right to either.
Re:get over it. (Score:2, Funny)
How did you pay for it? (Score:2)
What if Micro$oft did the same? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:What if Micro$oft did the same? (Score:4, Insightful)
Apparently, this sort of data collection is OK, because TiVos are 'cool' and PVR technology needs to be fostered. I totally agree that they are, but so is Windows Media Player (IMHO). If it sent filenames back to Microsoft of all streams I watched, but let you opt out of it, the same people defending TiVo would be quite literally foaming at the mouth.
They got bad data from me. (Score:3, Interesting)
I think I'll be opting out.
Re:Holy Crap (Score:5, Interesting)
I leave it on because 1)I believe them when they say they only aggragate the data and 2)It's an important part of their business model and I want them to succeed.
Re:Holy Crap (Score:2)
And if that's not enough for the terminally paranoid amongst you... It's a *nix box, so you could always make the necessary mods to gain access and symlink syslog to /dev/null.
why do you favor TiVo? (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't see why we need TiVo. If we got standard broadcast and Internet formats for programming information, together with widespread production of these devices by electronics companies, costs would go down and privacy would end up being better.
Re:why do you favor TiVo? (Score:2, Insightful)
The data available now via the internet and the software available to interact with it is a long, long way from providing TiVo like service. I guess that could change someday but I don't see it happening soon.
Re:why do you favor TiVo? (Score:2)
Why do you want TiVo to succeed in particular?
Because TiVo provides a service that I like and use, they also do it better than anyone else. Standard Broadcasting and/or the Cable Companies have no compelling reason to do this. They make thier money on Advertising and they charge more for prime time spots. People who use TiVo, tend to fast forward through commercials, therefore that Ad money is wasted on that person. Eventually the Cable Companies may introduce similar sevices, but I doubt i will be able to fast forward through commercials. I don't think they will allow me save the show indefinately either, so I can watch it again, because this renders syndication obsolete.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Holy Crap (Score:4, Insightful)
Tivo gave us a VERY detailed message about this... along with a very easy opt-out system. They outlined that the information being collected was purely statistical and would not be linked to an individual user. I thought they handled it well.
Re:Holy Crap (Score:3, Insightful)
There is absolutely no law (in the US) that deals with how the data can be used. It is only the privacy policy of TiVO that dictates what is done.
Lets take the example of a company like Budweiser saying, "you know I want you to send out the new Budweiser commercial to all those that replayed our commercial". Budweiser then says, "hey to do that we will give you X dollars as compensation for your effort". Will TiVO say no to this? Absolutely not. TiVO is playing nice person now because they need to the data to convince the likes the Budweiser.
So sorry, I would opt out without any legally binding laws or legally binding data expiration laws.
Re:Holy Crap (Score:2)
Re:Privacy? What's that? (Score:3, Interesting)
You "found" backdoors? (Score:5, Informative)
Its your own damn fault if you didn't read up on it. But keep in mind before you start calling for some silly protest, that Tivo doesn't correlate information they gleem with who it came from -- only from where they are from, and the provide that data in aggregate to networks who actually *know* what commercials and such were being shown. So if the networks know that 20% of people in 02139 actually stopped to watch the new Volkswagon commercial during a rerun episode of Will and Grace, how does that impact your privacy in the slightest? Volkswagon doesn't know who you are. NBC doesn't know who you are. Tivo doesn't know you were watching a Volkswagon commercial. So where's the problem?
Re:You "found" backdoors? (Score:4, Interesting)
And of course they know who you are--the TiVo serial is sent as part of the authentication when the daily calls are made. They know your entire demographic, and I'm sure it's not a huge stretch to go through those logs and calculate how many 18-24-year-olds reviewed the commercial 7:30 into ESPN's Sportscenter.
TiVo might not do this now and they might not in the future, but I sure as hell am going to remain vigilant to make sure it never happens. It's pretty scary as it is. If you want them to have that information, great, but don't expect me to want to volunteer it.
Re:Uh.. I know who shot JFK. (Score:2)
But what if their own company is destroyed first (due to mismanagement, burst of dot-com bubble, arabs playing around with planes, whatever). Repo man comes, and auctions off assets to the highest bidder, in order to pay off creditors. And among these assets is... you guessed it, your logfiles. And even the TOS won't protect you at that point: you had an agreement with a now-defunct company, not with its creditors.
Ehh ?? (Score:2)
but keep in mind that Tivo doesn't know, even remotely, what commercials you may or may not be fast forwarding through, so they don't have any useful info about you at all!
From the article:
" Based on a random sampling of 10,000 of the 280,000 subscribers, they found out that Pepsi/Britney was the subject of the most replayed Ad(s)..."
If they know what ads you're *watching*, then they surely must know what ads you're fast-forwarding through..
*bzzz* No, sorry. Thanks for playing, though. (Score:2)
Did you read the article? Guess not. "Based on a random sampling of 10,000 of the 280,000 subscribers, they found out that Pepsi/Britney was the subject of the most replayed Ad(s)
TiVo sure as fuck knows what commercial I'm watching.
Re:*bzzz* No, sorry. Thanks for playing, though. (Score:2)
Read the privacy policy. Now's a good time, since they just updated it.
Also, you can opt-out of communicating with TiVo at all (very limiting) or just sending them viewing data (no harm to your viewing or service). Now, the thumbs-up/down I'm not sure about. If you *can* limit this, it would restrict the usefulness of the suggestions feature, if not eliminate it. I'm not sure if you can do that, but it's worth the research if you're uncomfortable sharing your likes and dislikes.
People are right to be concerned an watchful here, but let's not go overboard until TiVo proves themselves unreliable on this point.
Re:TiVo *keystroke* logs you, too (Score:2)
Better yet, simply call TiVo and tell them that you wish to not be included in their aggregate data collection. TiVo has been up-front from the startabout the "scary" process you describe above, and they're also up-front about the easy process to be removed from the data collection. And if you're extremely paranoid, wipe the log files as you described, or hack a DirecTiVo so you can use it without the phoneline.
Re:TiVo *keystroke* logs you, too (Score:2)
Re:TiVo *keystroke* logs you, too (Score:2)
God you're paranoid...
If you have a problem with advertisers getting *anonymous* aggregated viewing info which includes you, you can:
(a) Ask Tivo to take you off the list
(b) Quit using Tivo
I remember reading all about this stuff on their website before I bought the Tivo, if you didn't bother to read up on a purchase then more fool you.
Re:TiVo *keystroke* logs you, too (Score:2, Informative)
If you did, you would have gotten the message (TiVo has an area marked with an email icon where they can send you messages about service), marked super important, ON YOUR TIVO (so you can't say you used a fake email to register), that explained the privacy policy changes.
1. They are all anonymous. They are not correlating users to data, they're just uploading raw data. TiVo has been honest in all their other areas, so I see no reason to doubt them here (they'll even still give you phone support if you admit you hacked your tivo, and try to help you get it working again, including triggering server flags to auto-re-download the original software/etc. How many companies can you say that about?)
2. You can opt out. If you call the service number, give them your account number, you can tell them to leave you out of stats. This was also explained in the message.
Finally, Phillips has NOTHING AT ALL to do with tivo service, which is where the logs are going. Contacting phillips about tivo usage stats is like contacting Dell to complain about getting porn ads over ICQ.
Do some research before you troll.
Re:TiVo *keystroke* logs you, too (Score:2)
I, meanwhile, urge everyone with a TiVo to read TiVo's privacy policy [tivo.com] and stop panicking needlessly. TiVo's information collection is anonymous. Yes, they track button clicks. No, it's not connected to you. If it really bothers you, the privacy statement clearly says the following:
Seems pretty reasonable to me. Transparent and friendly. People reverse engineering TiVos have verified that if you call them, they no longer upload the data to TiVo at all.
Re:TiVo *keystroke* logs you, too (Score:4, Insightful)
B. they don't log 'mr. x has watched the slashdot show' they log 'someone in zipcode 1234 has watched the slashdot show'
Oh, and I just "discovered" the other day that some http servers actually these things called refer logs, that not only log your IP and what page you're visiting but where you came from; in some cases being able to detect search engine keywords used to get to that page. Given the fact that they could call up your ISP and request modem and customer information it's possible that they could do a heck of alot more damage than knowing you're a grown man who still watches teletubbies.
(...but since this is slashdot we'll completely ignore anything factual)
Re:Brittany (Score:5, Funny)
So who's the plastic surgeon then?
Steve M
Re:Yet another reason for satellite PVR (Score:2)
Re:No Data Collection Here (Score:2, Informative)
Because you have then destroyed most of the functionality of the TiVo. Without the program guide data the machine cannot get you season passes to you favorite shows, it can't give you an on screen display of whats playing on the other channels right now, it can't even name the stuff you've recorded automatically (so you've got to pick what show you want to watch from a list of dates and times)
Re:service model economics = we don't want it (Score:2, Informative)
It's a linux box that calls up tivo every night to get the program schedule, and reports some statistics as well.
Sean.
Re:service model economics = we don't want it (Score:3, Funny)
What do you tink is happening? "Ohhh, look, Johnny Slashdot watched The Man Show and reqound while the girls where on the trampoline. Let's go arrest him!!
Get over yourselves, people.
Re:I don't get /. at all. (Score:2)
...Which has been proven to not be sent when you do opt-out. My linux box keeps a history of every single command I type in cli...You don't see me complaining about it, do you? Oh wait, Linux doesn't send anybody my history...But then again, I opted out of TiVo's Data Collecting, and ran a packet sniffer, and TiVo didn't get my history files either once I opted out, where they did before.