Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
News

Not A Graceful Recovery For HP Customers 434

An alert reader named michael pointed out this article running at Infoworld on the policy instated by HP of supplying actual Windows XP backup media for their Pavilion only if owners really, really need them. While HP and other vendors have been moving to recovery partitions for a little while, it seems like HP customers have to jump through particular hoops to demonstrate they really need physical media, and aren't very happy about it. The article makes a good point too regarding the installation of Linux partitions. The banner ad on the page is for --guess what? -- Windows XP.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Not A Graceful Recovery For HP Customers

Comments Filter:
  • by tonhe ( 35552 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:05PM (#3019349)
    and I really dont like their policy on this topic at all.

    Yes, I do work for HP Pavilion support. I lost my job at a Linux based router company, moved, and took the first job I could find. anyway...

    HP's policy is that we included a copy, on a hidden partition with the computer, the specs state the fact, and so does an insert in the manual. The software (including hp learning adventure, which the recovery cds that are now available for purchase DO NOT include) would be 17 cds long (why the didnt use a dvd, i dont know). 7 of those cds are available now, and the only thign you have to do is call 208.323.2551 option 1 and give your info on the computer, get it registered and tell them that you deleted the recovery partition and need some recovery cds. They will charge tho though (which is the kicker) $9.95 for standard shipping (overnight is only 16) for the CDs.

    All in all it sucks.. and I know a lot of the customers hate the policy, but most of them dont mind paying for them because they did get a copy when they bought the computer, and most of the realize that they did agree to the license in the manual, and they did have 14 days to return the pc if they wernt happy.

    Please dont hate me because i work for hp, i dont like it any more than you do... *sighs*

    Anyone know of any good IT jobs in the lexington, KY area ?? Email me [mailto] if you do.
  • by AKA da JET ( 280057 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:09PM (#3019362) Homepage
    I'm still 17 and don't have enough money for my own computer yet (sniff). But, my problem with new compouters is all the pre-installed junk thats on them.

    Right now I'm running a 350MHz Compaq Presario. When I first got it, it had all sorts of pre-install crap-ola. Stuff like AOL, Prodigy, and a bunch of trial software I could care less about. And it didn't come with a OS cd, just a "recovery disk", so If I wanted to re-install the OS, I had to use the Recovery CD which would re-load the pre-installed software I worked hard to get rid of in the first place. Later on the disk mysteriously stopped working and my little brother got some virus on it that caused Windows not to work. I ended up borrowing a friend's OS CD he got with his computer and I've had no problems since then.

    When I get enough money for a new PC, I'm gonna ask to make sure it comes with an full-install OS CD.
  • by tonhe ( 35552 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:17PM (#3019399)
    what really sucks is.. its a 80gb disk, but only 7 of those cds are in the recovery partition.

    If you do a "destructive recovery" ie, Format and Recover, you lose the other 10 cds which are on the user partition. (The HP Learning Adventure Crap, tis demo Sw from The Learning Center)

    Tony
  • by my_second_fish ( 559508 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:18PM (#3019401) Homepage
    I used to work with tonhe, albeit in a different department, the customer information section. i know with the business pc, and netserver line of products, the harddrive stated, is the harddrive issued. if its saying its 80gb, then thats what it is, and any bit of space yoinked for recovery purposes, is yoinked.

    so yeah, yet gettin screwed.

  • IBM do it too... (Score:2, Informative)

    by mesagsx ( 413135 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:20PM (#3019412) Homepage
    Late last year, my company bought an high-end IBM workstation (dual CPU, PCI RAID, SCSI, 2 GB RAM etc...) to be a Windoze box (what a waste...).

    Guess what? It shipped to us pre-built, but with no recovery CD or Windoze media at all. IBM wouldn't even sell me one. They told me I had to go to M$ and
    buy direct.

    I don't geddit. Anyone know why this is? I mean, I can't believe that on a $10k machine, they'd try a save the single buck (or less) that the CD cost....
  • Re:*yawn (Score:3, Informative)

    by jidar ( 83795 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:31PM (#3019452)
    "That's not really *support* for the problem. IMHO it's a last resort. Not something that Dell, HP, home-user-OEM should be using all of the time."

    Unfortunately, a nuke and reinstall is about the only option in most cases. Typically a user calls and says "My computer is locking up..."

    Oh boy, good luck figuring that out Mr. phone tech support guy. Even if you can trace it down to a single program over the phone, you're probably just fixing a symptom caused by another problem.

    The truth of the matter is, a lot of problems can be solved eventually, but -very few- of them can be solved with less than having an on site tech working for a few hours, and that sort of support simply isn't reasonable to expect from consumer level equipment. If you want that sort of service then go to your local computer repair place and pay for it.

    And I'll be honest here, I work in a computer repair shop, and more and more often we are seeing machines come in that simply can't be fixed short of a reinstall. It's gone from maybe 10% to i'd say around 40% in the past 3 years. Windows is just getting worse and worse all the time.
  • by tonhe ( 35552 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:31PM (#3019453)
    The reason you can only get them if you need them is, They dont have them..

    They're still imaging the CDs, they didnt actually start offering them until this january 18th. We just don't have enough CDs to send to everyone.

    I still dont agree with the charge for them. But all you have to do is call in and say you deleted the recovery partition.
  • Step 1: Buy a Mac. (Score:5, Informative)

    by nbvb ( 32836 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:42PM (#3019492) Journal
    To solve the problem, buy a Mac.

    It comes pre-loaded with everything you need, and *gasp* Apple includes ALL the software on CD's!

    They include your standard "Click one icon to reload your whole disk back to its original configuration", AND standalone CD's of all the OS's and apps on the system! And gee, they don't seem to be going bankrupt from included $.60 worth of CD's.....

    Software Included [apple.com]

    Everything is easier on a Mac. [apple.com]

    (This from a Sun admin... who woulda thunk it.. Apple in the Unix business?)
  • by NewtonsLaw ( 409638 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:43PM (#3019498)
    Anyone who buys a brand-name PC needs their head read and deserves everything (every problem) they get.

    I swore off buying "big name" PCs back in 1989 when I spent a huge amount of $ on an IBM PS/2 model 70. (20MHZ 386 CPU, 4MB RAM, 120MB HD)

    Within 11 months the PSU failed but was replaced under warranty.

    At 14 months the 120 MB HDD died (stiction) and IBM wanted an extortionate amount for one of their proprietory replacements. In the end I simply junked the PS/2 and, for less than they were going to charge me to replace the drive, I bought a no-name clone with twice the processing power, four times the memory and a 220MB HD.

    Then there was a friend of mine who bought a DEC laptop and ended up having to pay nearly ten times as much for RAM as I paid for the same amount of extra memory on my no-name clone laptop. And when his LCD display crapped out, they took eight weeks to fix it and wouldn't even give him a loaner!

    At the risk of generalizing, I have to say that a lot of the money you hand over when you buy a "big name" PC goes into advertising the brand and not into providing you with better quality or service.

    These days I buy good, reliable no-name clones and I know that they are:

    1. easily upgradable
    2. easily repaired with readily available parts
    3. great value for money
    4. compatible with just about every OS/app I try

    The shop I buy my machines from will even sell me a PC sans Windows -- and without bitching about it! But if I do buy a machine with Windows, I get a legit copy of the disk and certificate.

    Caveat emptor folks!
  • Buy a Mac... (Score:2, Informative)

    by spacedx ( 458227 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:46PM (#3019510)
    It really is too bad I'm missing out on all this fun... my Apple PowerMac G4, iBook, and G4 iMac came with not only a set of recovery CDs to return the computer to its original factory-fresh state, but they also came with the actual retail copies on CD of both OS X and OS 9. These "retail" CDs will boot, allow you to partition, and install on any Mac, not just the one listed on the label. No other computer retailer comes close to this level of flexability.

    Restore to full "factory functionality," or start from scratch and customize with a brand spanking fresh retail copy of the OS? It's your choice... not the manufacturer's.

    Think about it.
  • Ha Ha (Score:2, Informative)

    by Drizzit ( 18580 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:47PM (#3019521)
    Apple provides with the Power Mac G4

    1 - OS 9.2.2 install for installing just OS 9.
    1 - OS X install for installing just OS X.
    the 4 restore CDs to make the computer like new.
    1 - applications cd with individual application installers for the third party bundles.
    plus two blank CD-Rs
  • by Mr. Piccolo ( 18045 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:50PM (#3019534) Homepage
    Buy from Polywell Systems [polywell.com]. They provide the actual Windows disks, with their pretty holograms and paper-thin manual and all that.

    They also provide a floppy disk that you can use to recover your system to its as-shipped configuration. What they do is put a hidden file containing the original C drive image in the D drive. In my case it only takes 1.5 GB out of my drive, which is much better than taking 10+GB. They also give you instructions for creating additional C drive images using the ghost utility.

    Unfortunately, online ordering from them isn't the best, but still, for what you get, it's probably worth the annoyance.

    BTW: If you want Linux, or even Solaris (!), they do that too.
  • by KFury ( 19522 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @05:53PM (#3019560) Homepage
    "why not just burn the recovery partition to CDs?Voila, instant recovery disks."

    Hardly. Burning the recovery partition to CD-R, segmenting it god-knows-how onto 17 discs does not a bootable recovery disk make. For one thing, the recovery programs have no way of knowing which of the other 16 CDs the myriad files it needs are on, but that's just for starters.

    In short it's like segmenting your car with a chainsaw so you can fit it in your friends 17 cars, and wondering why it won't run when you turn the key in the chunk with the steering wheel.
  • by markj02 ( 544487 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @06:04PM (#3019595)
    Your best bet for recovery is to image the drive yourself, over Ethernet, to some other disk. If you gzip it, it usually won't be that bad. That has worked better for me than even the recovery CDs, which usually are laborious and nosy.

    How do you do this? Well, here is what has worked for me in th epast. Boot from a Linux recovery CD, NFS mount a remote directory, and use something like: "gzip /nfs/hp-backup-hda.gz".

    Or, you can do it partition by partition with something like "dd if=/dev/hda of=/nfs/hp-partition-info bs=1024 count=100", then "gzip /nfs/hp-backup-hda1.gz", etc. To restore, first restore the partition info, then the individual partitions.

    I haven't found a bootable CD with USB support yet, but once that comes out, you can also image to a USB disk. There are lots of really cheap and small USB disks out there now that you can use for this kind of backup.

    (Use this at your own risk and understand what you are doing. If it doesn't work for you, well, too bad.)

  • by Brat Food ( 9397 ) on Saturday February 16, 2002 @07:18PM (#3019831) Homepage
    This is a horrible practice that big PC mfgs have been doing for YEARS. Compaq and HP seem to be some of the biggest offenders in my years as a PC tech.

    Heres the situation. They give you one or more of the following.

    - recovery partition and NO CDS (not even windows)
    - CDs for OEM software and a Recovery CD. Now, the recovery CD would be all well and good, but, they usually have NO repair/reinstall on a different partition option. So you HAVE to format your HD to use this CD (who the HELL thought of this, i want to maim them).

    Basically, either way your screwed. If you lose a windows system file to corruption (this seems to happen WAY too often), most of these poor customers end up reformatting their HD. And with a 'recovery partition', your still ****** most of the time .

    The point is, do the increase of tech support calls and returns make up for the short sited cost savings on not putting in CDs of the system and all the OEM software you were supposedly getting (you dont really 'have' it unless you have a way to install it IMHO). No.

    And for the record, when you buy an apple machine, you get restore Cd's, and you can count on their usefullness. It only takes a few CDs, but EVERYONE who has a mac has them. It helps in tech support SO much to know that everyone has at LEAST the base on CD. You get the OS, basic utilities, and Apple software. It should be a standard in the PC world, not an exception.

And it should be the law: If you use the word `paradigm' without knowing what the dictionary says it means, you go to jail. No exceptions. -- David Jones

Working...