Slashdot IRC Forum 428
The IRC forum with CmdrTaco and Hemos is now complete, and a log has been posted. They answered quite a few questions about Slashdot's subscription system, bigger ads, and other assorted stuff. Don't miss the question about pop-up ads.
wow... that popup question was worth the hype. (Score:3, Insightful)
1) paypal
2) tech saavy audience already disables ads
3) why would i pay to view the content i provide??
4) why would i ADVERTISE on a site that allows its biggest fans to block the ads?
this isn't a good idea. period.
Subscriptions (Score:5, Insightful)
But Slashdot folks do go through a bit trying to make sure that the ads are nonintrusive in that they're not popups and so on.. now THOSE would make you want to run away wouldnt that? and they're not using them STILL even with the subscription thing.. so you have to give them some credit in knowing HOW far to go and NOT going over the line.. so why not support them? 5 bucks isnt that much to pay..
Avoiding Ads (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:wow... that popup question was worth the hype. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:One possibility (Score:4, Insightful)
Generic surveys or something would be a good idea. I like the idea of Slashdot being a gathering place for early adopters and geeks - unfortunately trolls and the such bring the site down (try browsing at 0 or something and you'll get the point).
Generic surveys for subscribers would rock. I'd definately participate if I knew that Tivo was surveying slashdot users. Or a Compaq survey for "what would you want in a rackmount". If anything, some of us are in positions that make purchasing decisions, we need to advertise this.
Considering that most of us are early adopters of technology, I would *guess* that companies like Tivo, PDA manufacturers, IBM, Compaq, etc. would be lining up to get our input.
You know what? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Here's the reality: You block ads. You cost us money. Ultimately, I mean."
This is where you have to stop and think "Hey... if Slashdot DOES go down because of a lack of profits, where will I turn?"
Of course, there are other news places to go to. I visit The Register often. However, Slashdot is, despite any errors in editorials or anything... a truly unique news site. For the years I've been reading, I've been pleased overall. We've all encountered bumps in the road, and that bump in the road for users right now is the ads. Now, of course (which I find it ironic that this comes not long after this [slashdot.org], but still) many of you are simply not going to go for the idea of something that was once pratically free and devoid of huge ads to have simply changed on you. You'll cheat the system as much as you can, and for the most part, you'll succeed.
But how much will that accomplish? Realize the plight slashdot apparently is in, and how they need to raise money, somehow. Subscriptions and ads are that way. And while I disagree with a lot of the way they're going to implement them... why not just pick one way, even if you have qualms with it, and just go with it? Put aside your inflammatory, trolling and goatse links for a second and realize that Slashdot is truly a useful resource. If you're going to visit this site, for once prove that it doesn't take sneaky or unethical buisness for something to survive... merely a good product. That is what Slashdot is, and most of you know it: a very good product.
While I personally won't be going for a subscription (16 years old = lack of credit card), I will stomach the ads and probably a lot more if they need it to survive.
Copyright on posts (Score:5, Insightful)
By the same reasoning, wouldn't there be some limits on what slashdot can do to the site and still carry the implied permission by the author? Changing to a for-pay model means that slashdot is now profiting from the site in a way that was not the case when the author posted. Maybe he would not have been willing to use slashdot to publish if he had known that there was money coming in as a pay service, without getting a cut of that money himself.
Seems to me that slashdot may be stepping over the line in charging for content which was submitted with the understanding that it would be published for no charge. Any lawyers care to comment?
Pretty boring (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't want to sound ungrateful for Slashdot, but some crew change might be welcome too. Slashdot has become a habit - the editors no longer feel obliged to fix half-wrong stories, they don't realize that they piss off a customer with every rejected submission and I think CmdrTaco has rejected *lots* of good ideas tonight. He seems to stick on only no-ads and gold stars, and little extra power for subscribers. Come on Taco, you aren't a suit - some things might not be too easy in Slash (submission of polls, access to the submission queue, a trusted net of paying moderators) but they will prove more robust and much cooler than this ripped-out-of-any-book business model. That's my point: Slashdot gets boring. I hate to see this leading weblog go the same road as so many others.. this is not another troll, Slashdot will be as interesting as it ever was, but the specialty is gone. Hey, we're a community! I liked the chat, but Taco hardly *listened*
To CmdrTaco, hemos, et al. (Score:1, Insightful)
ignored question (Score:1, Insightful)
Those were interesting suggestions, taco really shouldn't have ignored the question. I don't necessarily like the idea of a "subscribers only" comment tree, but taco's reaction does not reflect well on the willingness of the
Re:What Slashdot should do (Score:2, Insightful)
I assume that you can pay for a subscription? Unfortunately, some of us can't afford the subscription (honestly) and/or have no way to pay-- no credit cards. Believe me, if I had the $$, I'd subscribe, if only to support /.; as it is, I like some of the ads, ignore the others, and pray my dad finds a job.
Though, I think you're right about comment-subscriptions doing away with the need for moderation. But there are some of us who don't troll, but can't subscribe, either.
What cmdrtaco et al should do... (Score:2, Insightful)
They could have moderator time slots where moderators work a rotating schedule to scan the stories for ones that should be posted. The slashcode is essentially complete except for ongoing changes to support the new ad based system. So if they got regular jobs they would make more money, still have ad revenue from the banner ad at the top, and they would put slashcode into maintainence mode. It would cut down on the number of headaches, which is always good.
New Options (Score:5, Insightful)
+1 Interesting
+1 Clever
+1 Relevant
-1 Annoying
-1 Irrelevant
-1 Stupid
You don't have to moderate ads, but you can if you want to. I'm sure potential advertisers would just love to get that kind of data. Might increase the value of particular adspace or markets. Like if 90% of people love X's ads and products they'll be much more likely to advertise on slashdot, and I'm sure competing company Y would love that adspace too.
Just a thought.
Re:Pretty boring (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, what if you require paying moderators to have a karma > 50 ? I think there are a lot of fair options to make interested people pay, without offending the freeloaders.
Why I wont pay==Why Dot Coms failed. (Score:5, Insightful)
The 'overhead' refers to filling out forms, tracking the information, and the charges on my credit card. I hate paperwork. This alone is enough to make me leery of participating.
The risk factor is the true stopper though.
I won't give any personal information to anybody because I have been abused in too many ways; not just internet sites but the world at large. I have been sold on lists to telemarketers. I have been charged on my credit cards by fly-by-nights. I have been outright robbed using paypal. I have been spammed. I have had my personal computer cracked by warez hackers and chinese dissidents. I have been, and am being, stalked by a [literally] psychotic guy from New Jersey. I have had my bank account compromised; my credit card hijacked.
In short, my life has been made a living hell by the simple fact that I have given information out to people who all said they wouldn't let it out.
Thus I believe this is the 'ultimate' reason for the dot com failure; nobody ever solved the problem of easy, fast and trustworthy electronic transactions.
Until that problem is solved, slashdot won't get my money.
Some positive thoughts (just to be a rebel) (Score:4, Insightful)
Lighten up, people! It's a WEBSITE. A good one, one that I happen to find entertaining and informative, but it's still a website. 300,000+ users a day ain't chump change in the bandwidth game. Keeping a system alive to support that with very little downtime is itself quite an accomplishment (think of how many 'big name' sites have themselves been Slashdotted).
I have yet to actually see any of these 'new' ads, and something tells me I'll be ignoring them just as I would any other ad within a week. Don't like them? Cough up some dough. Don't like that? LEAVE. Why exactly do people keep posting 'I will not pay for a message board'? Fine, then go. Just please stop whining about it.
Every time I visit
Oh well, that was rambling enough. Long story short, if you don't like it, make your own. Whining won't make it any better.
Missing the point of text ads (Score:2, Insightful)
1. Not annoying
2. cheap (relatively)
3. interesting
People (ie. users) pay to put text ads on slashdot. You don't have to charge much, given the popularity of slashdot everyone would want to have their ad on it, for they company, they blog, their site or what ever. Text ads generate money through quantity in numbers of advertisers not in money per ad.
You could have people pay for text ads on front page (cost more) or by category. Have it as a slashbox, people who choose to subscribe can close it, while the rest of "us" (Thats include me) can have the ads while skimming through slashdot.
Just make a good payment queue so you can have a diy system.
Re:You know what? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is complete BS, actually. Number one fallacy is a false dichotomy: either there are ads, or we make no money. Take a look at IGN [ign.com]. They are a partially-free, partially-pay site (although they're moving more toward for-pay), and I subscribe to them for $20 a year. And I'm happy to do it, because they have the kind of extra content for subscribers I'm willing to pay for (in addition to just supporting a site that I really like and frequent).
This plan is complete BS. Assuming people will go for paying for not getting something is stupid. Paying for exclusion is stupid, because I can limit the signal myself, there's no service there. Supporting a site I like or not, I can't help but feel ripped off.
Now if they moved slashdot to mostly-pay-for-stories, added some good original content, and did some bloody editing, I'd be happy to pay. I mean, slashdot is their only job, right? What exactly the heck do they do all day? Click a story and add a few halfway-literate comments without even checking? This is all fine and I have no complaints if I'm getting it for free. But if you want me to pay, shape up. That's all there is to it.
Re:Just read the entire IRC log... (Score:5, Insightful)
I also wanted to make my clear my statement about 18 - 24 months; that's current burn rate. That rate has been rapidly getting better - but please look at the filings with the SEC, and make your own judgement.
Re:my question (Score:3, Insightful)
troll.
Re:New Options (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe ad execs aren't interested in hearing about thier advertisements, but I'm very sure the people who hire them are. INAB (businessman), but it just seems like there is high demand for this kind of information. Registration cards with everything. Marketing surveys everywhere. Mail in rebates - just fill out this short form, allow 6-8 weeks for delivery. Slashdot is perfect for this sort of thing. Having interactive marketing feedback would be a dream for these people. Hell, OSDN could even sell the code to other sites/advertisers.
Maybe I'm going overboard here, but it's worth some additional thought, maybe. And hey, if you don't want to be a marketing guinea pig, don't moderate. Don't want to see the ads at all? Help slashdot out with the bandwidth costs then.
Just a thought.
Re:It's a kind of intellectual arrogance. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's a kind of intellectual arrogance. (Score:3, Insightful)
Slashdot went WAY beyond "FUN" when they decided to make a living.
Whenever hemo's complained about having to cover costs of healthcare, salary and 10 servers i just played him my lil pitty violin.
Oh darn, having to work and provide a PRODUCT to the consumers BEFORE you ask for payment is that hard?
Sure slashdot provides a forum, but without the masses, it is just another "Was". There is nothing wrong with making it a legit business.
IT IS WRONG TO BLAME COSTS ON US. It is wrong for us to Subsidize advertising. I will only pay a subscription whenever i get the benifet of that subscription. Like i have said before, i get some great magazines that i subscribe to, but i don't pay for them to remove the adds, i pay for them WITH the adds because the adds make up the magazine along with the content. If i know i'm in the market for a new GPS with the latest jeppenson airport directory loaded or want to replace the prop on my aircraft i can pickup a private pilot magazine and find a dealer that does just that as well as read some interesting magazines.
Hell slashdot doesn't even cross market itself. I can't find linux vendors here, they sold off VA. There is TONS of things slashdot could generate revenue from to provide a great service.
And this is just supposed to be for fun? Living aint easy.
Re:Just read the entire IRC log... (Score:4, Insightful)
Guess what, i'm not the CFO of the company i work for either, but i understand our SEC fillings, our budgets, our requirements and what is involved to make our cost center profitable.
Are you saying you don't bother with it or that people are telling you what to do and slashdots "Creative control as promised from the aquisition" is just trying to hide this?
Heck, i'd subscribe if i knew it was a well thought out and developed process. The problem is i don't see any announcements, i don't see any marketing, i don't see anything accept a few "cocky" people giving mixed answers and then saying "next".
I'm sorry, but when WE PAY YOUR BILLS, you DON'T TELL US WHAT IS WRONG OR RIGHT. After all, without the "collective us" you wouldn't have advertising revenue or your quasi famous ego's
Have you already forgotten the customer is always right? Have you forgotten slashdot wouldn't exist without "customers" or visitors in your case?
Why not just move from advertising all the way? Fire your marketing deparment, drop your "ad servers", loose the image hosting bandwidth costs and just use a self service text add system. Move to an NNTP based system where the content is aggregated much the way any NNTP system is.
Everyone has opinions, like everyone has an asshole, so there is no wrong or right. The adds have never been obtrussive, if they get obtrussive then i will leave. I'm not paying just to remove advertising simple as that. I would pay however if i saw you cared about the numbers, you cared about revenue, you cared about cost cutting and your cared about the bottom line.
Instead you guys are still complaining about estimated costs, how you need health care, how you don't sell all your adds how you don't do this or that, but you have never stated HOW YOU COULD MAKE THIS PLACE MORE VALUEABLE AND INCREASE YOUR REVENUES FROM PROVIDING A BETTER PRODUCT.
That is how business is done my friend. LIke i said, i love slashdot, it was worth supporting in adds, it was worth supporting if subscriptions added value, but you guys chose to remove ads over adding value.
I buy magazines for the content and Ads, i like to drool over toys i can't afford, it is part of the whole picture. I liked slashdot for the targeted ads, because they notified me of new products and kept me informed of market trends.
Paying to get rid of part of slashdot is just.. rediculous.
Re:Just read the entire IRC log... (Score:3, Insightful)
then why were we talking to *you* on irc?
Why flat rate isn't bad (Score:2, Insightful)
Here's the thing: those people will be there whether you have flat rate or not. The only way to keep these people away would be to have Slashdot be closed to the public. Otherwise, a person who would load a ton of times each day will just plain not pay per view.
If these people who load tons are going to be here no matter what... wouldn't you like to get $5 per month from some of them, instead of nothing from any of them?
I don't care if it turns out to be a better deal to do pay-per-view. Maybe I'll get 3 months of viewing out of it. But I'll hate page-pinching every time I read, and the page-pinching will be unavoidable and in the back of my mind all the time. Give me the chance to just have peace of mind.
That's all!
mark
Re:Just read the entire IRC log... (Score:2, Insightful)
Sites with large, loyal fan bases find that their readers are usually all too happy to pitch in with money and equipment donation... when those in charge about completey open and honest-- and if they don't know the answer to that particular question go "Hweey! I don't know... but since you, the readers, are our bread and butter, I'll find out."
Popular RPG/nich-game site thegia.com was in a similar sort of situation a few months ago.
It was a case of hardware failure, requiring many thousands of dollars to replae lost and destroyed hardware.
So they set up a "domations" page. saying exactly what the problem was, exactly what needed to be done... and a list of "crazy things the staff would do if certain monetary goals were met."
IN addition, small extras were offered (exclusive wallpaper) as well.
Witihin DAYS, they had raised 10,000 dollars(US).
What can
Be completely open and honest. Full disclosure. Thell what the money is needed for., why and how much. Make it very clear that they are ASKING its lifeblood (the readers) to help the site out.
And maybe offer a little tangible extras.
Re:wow... that popup question was worth the hype. (Score:3, Insightful)
Scuse me... Yeah, Hi... I don't know if you noticed this, but YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY SLASHDOTTER. You're not paying for content that you provide. You're paying for the ability to see what other people are thinking, what other people believe. You are also being given a forum with which to share your beliefs.
If you did fail to notice this, then don't worry about paying for a subscription... You have other needs to attend to first...
Re:Slashdot's new business model (Score:3, Insightful)