Segway Getting Real-Life Tests

EReidJ writes: "washingtonpost.com (no registration required) has an article on real-life use of the new Segway scooters, including an update on some of the safety issues and where state laws currently are with use of the Segway. (20 states have specifically passed laws to allow the Segway on sidewalks.) Interesting read."

segway seems too big

[iocat]

The Segway seems cool, but it doesn't seem like sidewalks are big enough for it. Imagine 200 college kids with jogging strollers (to give an idea of the size) all trying to go somewhere after class.

An amazing technological achievment no doubt, but I'm worried about the practicality.

How far can you lean forward?

[naoursla]

As I understand it, you move forward by leaning foward. The segway moves forward to stay underneath you which keeps you from falling over. Like walking, it is a controlled fall. But there is also a built in speed limit, so if you lean forward too far (trying to go faster) the Segway would not be able to keep up and you would keep leaning farther until your face meets the sidewalk (presumably while going around 12 mph). Does anyone know what keeps it from doing this?

...sidewalks

[magicslax]

In states that haven't explicitly allowed these bugges on the sidewalks, can you use them in bikelanes? What conditions does your vehicle need to meet to be a bike? How about a moped or something of that nature- open, wheeled, anything else?

Political/Marketing clout?

[alouts]

After all the "No Skateboarding/Bicycling/Rollerskating" signs I have seen around various towns, why would so many cities specifically allow these things on sidewalks by passing laws saying so?

Is it all just a load of local lobbyists pressing the city councils? It seems to me like there's enough hype/marketing here to choke a whole herd of horses.

Re:Segways are too dangerous to be on the sidewalk

[EricBoyd]

All modes of transportation have dangers. I mean, how many people are killed by automobiles every day? The real question for society is: are we better off with or without fast and convenient transportation? So far we have already answered with, and I expect that to continue.

Have they crash tested Segways yet?

[Da Masta]

I don't want to come off as a morbid bastard, but how well protected is a rider during a crash? I mean, if the Segway is controlled with gyros that sense little weight shifts of the rider, in a crash, wouldn't the rider toppling off cause a shift in balance and accidentally cause the thing to tip over the wrong way? And how well do the pieces of the machine attach together -- in a head-on collision, are we supposed to expect the riders to kiss in mid-air, fall flat on their asses with the scooter toppling on them afterwards, or do they just get mercifully impaled by the handle bars? Why are we, as the public, and potentially stupid customers, not informed of matters of such importance, and more specifically, why are there no tutorials on doing donuts with Segways?

Vaporware

[phreak404]

Doesn't seem to be a little soon to be approving laws and such for a device that hasn't even really taken off? Its got great hype, yes, but consumers aren't about to buy one, not at its current price. It seems to me this is jumping the gun.

Segway - Hands-On Observations

[wildsurf]

I had the opportunity to ride the Segway at the TED conference in Monterey a few months ago, and was quite impressed. It feels a bit like water skiing; takes a minute to get your "sea legs," then it's completely intuitive. Right now, there are no "gears"; you just lean forward or backward and it goes. This seemed to be a bit of a problem getting on and off the thing; I'd like to see a "Neutral" gear, where it tries to stay as motionless as possible, balancing upright. In fact, in this mode, a person could probably do a handstand on the handlebars and it would continue to balance itself!! (Cirque du Soleil, anyone?)

Also, perhaps separate "Drive" and "Reverse" modes might be called for, where it goes only forwards or only backwards (unless needed for balancing). And currently, a hard rotational twist at high speed will flip the thing. There must be some way to detect radial acceleration and ease up when it gets to a dangerous point... I understand the need for linear response, like a car steering wheel has, but note that a car is more likely to skid (not flip) if you turn the wheel a little too hard. (I don't think the Segway has enough juice to skid, anyway... and its center of gravity is way too high.) Some sort of governor that kicks in at high radial acceleration and avoids flipping would be a welcome improvement.

Just my two cents... I still want one! (well, perhaps when it comes down to $1000... ;-)

My first thought was the snow.

[systemaster]

Even in milwaukee where you are required to shovel within 24 hrs...there are still places with to much snow for a segway, look at it, it has almost no ground clearance. The tires a large enough that tall bumbs, think like speed bumb, may not be a problem. But snow or tall grass, even with rock hard dirt, would be a problem.
I would counter your thought of a bike on ice...the way the segway works with gyros(I think, never looked at tech specs of it) it might behave better on ice than a bike...it also has a much lower center of gravity, which would also help on ice. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it would be really usable on ice, but I bet it would be better than a traditional bike.

Re:bike lanes, not sidwalks

[PunchMonkey]

I average 25km/hour (about 16MPH) on my bike ride to/from work. I hit 35km on straight-aways, and 50+ if I'm heading downhill. It's awkward enough passing other cyclists and worrying about cars veering into the bike lane (when there is a bike lane).

Plus I don't think these machines are maneuverable enough to be on the road (bike lane or no bike lane).

I saw one today...

[SharpNose]

...at an auto show in Atlanta. I only caught the tail end of the presentation and wasn't able to hear the fellow talking, but I have to say that it was an astonishing sight - FINALLY something to really make me think that I'm in the 21st century. From the outside, it really appeared as though the Segway was reading the driver's mind. He also had a little rig set up - imagine a 2" cube with a steep ramp up to one side and another on an adjacent side. He rode it up one ramp (that it did not change attitude in the transition was uncanny to watch), pivoted it to the left, and rode it down the other side.

I am not going to say that this is the answer to all our prayers, but I don't believe that these things are just going to fade away, either.

I can say with confidence that we're going to need sidewalks. Lots of sidewalks. Wide ones. And improved electricity generation and distribution.

Re:How about personal cars

[Neil Blender]

Not quite up to your specs, but these [corbinmotors.com] are pretty cool.

Dean Kamen *IS* a Genius

[zentec]

Think of it, not too long ago this mystery device proclaimed to be the revolution of personal transportation was unveiled. The press ate it up!
For months all you heard about was "what's Ginger?" Kamen's true genius is marketing.

Now you're seeing the benefit of that pre-emptive strike on the public. People are pumped about this and they've only seen it in pictures.

Re:Yeah but....

[jfortier]

They did a demo at my school (GATech), where they claimed to have developed snow and ice tires.

Re:Yeah but....

[bfields]

Anyone try riding a bicycle on ice?

You need to take a trip to the ICEBIKE website [enteract.com]....

I rode through the Michigan winter this year. It was a pretty mild winter, and they're pretty fast to clear the roads around here. But it is possible to ride under those kinds of conditions--go very slow, and be very sure you know how much turning/braking you can get away with before you skid!

Oh, and get some really, really good protection for your extremities--the rest of your body will stay warm from the exercise, but those fingers can get cold fast....

--Bruce Fields

Re:BikeRoads

[bfields]

I really hate trying to drive with people on Bikes riding. Here's my issue. I'm in the rightmost CAR lane, and I want to make a right turn. There is a bike lane to my right with a guy that wants to go straight.

The correct thing to do in this situation is to first merge right (giving cyclists already there the right of way, just as if you're doing a regular lane merge), and then take the right turn. But then some cyclists who think bike lanes are *never* to be used by cars get mad at you. The whole situation is a confusing to everyone, which is why I prefer to just bike on the road and ride like a regular vehicle--then we all understand the rules.

Separate thoroughfares for bikes would be more sensible than lanes.

But those separate thoroughfares are still going to have to intersect the regular road system at regular intervals, and getting those intersections right is really important--intersections are where most accidents happen. Try to work out how to have two entirely separate road systems superimposed on each other with safe intersections that don't cause everyone concerned unnecessary delays, and you'll quickly realize it's not worth the trouble.

Just think of bikes as skinny little cars, and everything will make more sense.

--Bruce Fields

pretty sad

[j09824]

I find this pretty sad. The Segway is a neat gizmo, but it doesn't look like very attractive transportation. Bicycles and electrically assisted bicycles are faster, can be used on the road, and allow you to engage in some level of physical activity. Scooters (like the Vespa or Honda) have a much greater range and are about half the price, and they are mature and low-tech. Or you can get a variety of electric scooters, which are quiet and faster as well. The Segway, in contrast, is slow, can't be used on roads, provides no opportunity for exercise, has limited range, and is quite expensive. And, as the article points out, is probably quite dangerous on sidewalks.

Electrically assisted bicycles like this [electricbetterbikes.com] are in a legal limbo: you can't legally use them on bike paths in many places, you can't ride them as fast as a bicycle, and some variants require motorcycle licenses. Yet, they are suitable and highly efficient for travel and commuting.

Similarly, innovative scooters like the BMW C1 (a scooter with a secure passenger cell) fail to get approval in the US, even though they passed lots of safety and real-world tests in Europe.

Yet, a high-tech gizmo like the Segway just breezes through regulatory approvals, probably based on the excellent marketing and celebrity endorsements behind it. First, drivers have to engage in an arms-race with SUVs on the road; will pedestrians now all have to upgrade to Segways in order to use sidewalks safely?

Re:$3000 bucks

[spike hay]

This Segway, if it becomes popular, will eliminate the last little bit of exercise people get: Pedestrian travel. Boy, we're gonna get even fatter!! :-P

It might be a little easier to control than a bike, but not by much. Going very slow (ie. the 12 miles an hour that the Segway advertises) I can turn pretty damn sharp on a bike.

Anyway, these things will be probably banned from sidewalks soon anyway. It is hard to manuever a crowded sidewalk without hitting people when you are walking. Imagine trying to do so on a Segway travelling at jogging speed. It would be very difficult.

The good old bicycle is faster, cheaper, healthier, and almost as maneuverable.

Re:It's actually pretty safe

[ndinsil]

First, if you're riding a segway at it's top speed of about 14 MPH, you can stop in about 15 feet- a runner going that fast takes about 20 feet to stop.

I'm curious as to where you get that "20 feet" number. Curious enough, in fact, to step outside for a quick drill... From a speed of around 14 MPH (about a 16 second 100 pace) I stopped in 5 feet. Of course, I knew when I was going to stop so reaction time didn't come into play, but assuming a moderately slow reaction time (0.2 seconds) at that speed that only adds 4 feet. To be sure, stopping that quickly puts some undesirable stress on a person's legs, but in a panic-stop situation that's not an issue. So don't dismiss the human body too quickly.

Re:How far can you lean forward?

[Spy Hunter]

It probably gives a tiny spurt of speed, just enough to lean you back the other way, then slows you down. That way you could never sustain a speed above 12 MPH. In fact it could keep your center of gravity from ever travelling faster than 12 MPH if it was careful.

Re:Political/Marketing clout?

[Paul Komarek]

As a cyclist and driver, I claim that bicycles belong on the road because bicyclists most often don't act like pedestrians. As a driver, you need to treat a bicyclist on the sidewalk as another lane of traffic because bicycles can move fairly fast (as opposed to pedestrians, who *can* stop on a dime ;-). This "extra lane" is dangerous because it is unmarked, unofficial, and often forgotten. Even worse are bicyclists on the sidewalk who want to turn left across traffic. There are also problems with pedestrians sharing a sidewalk with bicycles, because of the often wide difference in speed.

A cyclist in traffic behaves much more like a car, and is easy to predict. As a driver and a bicyclist, I have no problem with a bicycle slowing traffic down. It's much safer and less stressful for everyone.

-Paul Komarek

this is off topic

[doubtless]

Toohey said the company spent less than $1 million to hire lobbyists and get the state approvals passed.

but somehow this line just doesn't seems right to me, especially in a supposedly corruption free democratic government... or is it just me?

Pedestrian zones

[nairolF]

In many European cities the town centres are declared pedestrian zones, so there're no cars (and no congestion). One could do something similar for the segway: declare the city centre a pedestrian/segway zone, and the sidewalks themselves a purely pedestrian zone. Elsewhere, as has been amply pointed out, one could limit segways to bicycle paths.

Basically, there are three categories of traffic: (1) cars and motorbikes, (2) bicycles and segways, (3) pedestrians or skaters. To some extent, zoning already exists for these three categories, with some overlap (bicylces are allowed on roads, for example). Segways only require a slight elaboration of this.

And your solution is....?

[Mulletproof]

First, segways and pedestrians don't mix. A 12 mph hit is harder than any WWF or football tackle you've ever seen. And don't tell me it can't/won't happen. The state will be lucky if they don't get their asses sued off for such a dumb decision. Somebody made a good point-- Bikes are treated as vehicals (albeit differently), the segway should likewise.

The only solution I can think of... Is take lane space away from cars gradually in areas you want to convert to segway only use. This would have the short to long term issue of massive traffic congestion as everybody has a car. Expanding a roadway would serve only to increase taxes to support the project. Both solutions will draw heavy critism from motorist (a large majority of the population who have already shelled out $10,000-50,000 on a mode of transportation.)

The primary problem as I see it is that we need a working alternate energy plan. This Segway conversion project would be a whole lot easier if we did. Sadly, we have only piecemeal. Regardless; nobody wants to give up their cars because in the long term, simply because they are all around more useful than a segway. I can go cross country AND commute within a city in mine. I can travel in nearly any weather. Transverse moderately rough terrain. I can only use a Segway in a city for it to be useful. Yes, you could put parking lots outside a city, but then you'd have to clear massive space to support the sheer number of commuters coming into the city and getting on their segway. Who's suburb is that going to be? Yours?

People are focusing on the problems because the solutions are even more unwieldy that what we have going on now...