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Samba Wins eWeek & PC Magazine Award 177
frankie_guasch writes: "The award is "Innovation in Infrastructure" (i3) award for best Enterprise Software!
And we beat out Sun Microsystems
Java 2 Platform Standard Edition Version 1.4 and Bea Systems WebLogic Server 7.0
for the award, so I'm stunned that we won. These guys have marketing departments
and a *budget.*" It's a strange contrast to the kind of attention that Samba is getting from Microsoft. (See these earlier posts for more on the CIFS situation.)
Samba (Score:1, Interesting)
If only it wasn't so hard to configure shares... then again, maybe I'm just dumb, but it takes a lot of effort to set that stuff up.
fp
Re:Samba (Score:3, Interesting)
Nowadays theres so many howto's out, though. They made it a ton easier to get things done. Hell, I think you can even configure shares with SWAT now too which simplifies it even more.
Kudos to the Samba team for a job well done!
Re:Samba (Score:2)
And does anyone know what ever happened to the explorer-like network/file browser that Corel Linux had? I remember trying Corel for a while and setting up SMB shares and connecting to them on ms window boxes was painless. Was that code kept proprietary by Corel? Who owns it now?
Re:Samba (Score:2)
Re:Samba (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Samba (Score:2)
Re:Samba (Score:2)
Re:Samba (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Samba (Score:2)
Re:Samba (Score:1)
Re:Samba (Score:2)
Re:Samba (Score:2)
Basically what happened was that for some reason SE wanted to enumerate all files mounted with sharity. Thus taking forever to start.
Re:Samba (Score:2)
Yeah, I know there are tools out there, like the Ximian Setup Tools, and SWAT, but I don't think they cut it all the way. I like getting a listing of all my shares in one place, ala XST and SWAT, but just to add shares needs to be as simple as Windows makes it. I should be able to add shared folders to the network just by right-clicking the folder's icon in Nautilus (or in Konq, if that's your flavor). I know I've seen this brought up for Nautilus in the past, so after GNOME 2 ships, hopefully this will get added. Any KDE users know if Konq has plans to do this?
<flamebait>
Nautilus 2 has beaten it's big gripe - it's finally quite speedy - when's Konq gonna simplify that button encrusted, "mystery-meat"-toolbar-icon-laden interface, eh?
</flamebait>
Already here in both (Score:2)
Do you want to allow users to export some directories in their home?
Allowing this will permit users to simply click on "Share" in konqueror and nautilus.
Re:Already here in both (Score:1)
Re:Samba (Score:1, Troll)
Re:Samba (Score:1)
Re:Samba (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Owner of parent (Score:1)
Errr...so where's the announcement? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Errr...so where's the announcement? (Score:1)
"The list of finalists will be available in the May 6 issue of eWEEK and the May 21 issue of PC Magazine. Winners will be announced in the May 13 issue of eWEEK and the June 11 issue of PC Magazine. Winners will also be posted on www.pcmag.com and www.eweek.com."
I wouldn't be suprised if they hold back the information until it's been released in the mag, perhaps?
Re:Errr...so where's the announcement? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Errr...so where's the announcement? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Errr...so where's the announcement? (Score:1)
Quick answer to the CIFS problem (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Quick answer to the CIFS problem (Score:2)
You have to understand, the Samba developers cannot _look_ at the MS specs at all. They can not look at code created from the MS specs.
Have no fear, the MS extensions can be reverse engineered. Just give the Samba team a little time and all will be well.
Re:Quick answer to the CIFS problem (Score:2)
Its about time (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Its about time (Score:1)
Samba is awesome (Score:5, Interesting)
When I showed her the bill for hardware and software, I pointed out that the reason she now has a blazing fast server with great hardware, under budget, is that I opted not to install Windows 2000 Server.
"So how can my Windows 2000 laptop running QuickBooks connect so seamlessly and without any crashes ever" (ok ok i'm paraphrasing..) she inquired.
I proceeded to explain the magic of Samba, and the development model which made it possible....
Thanks for great software! : - )
Re:Samba is awesome (Score:3, Funny)
You bill your wife for hardware and software?
Re:Samba is awesome (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Samba is awesome (Score:2)
Of course, it sounds like in your case you just set it up and let it be, but this is more for others who are considering a similar setup.
Re:Samba is awesome (Score:1)
Re:Samba is awesome (Score:2)
Re: Data Integrity (Score:2)
Like this?
E325: ATTENTION
Found a swap file by the name ".taxes.qbk.swp"
owned by: miallen dated: Thu May 9 19:06:10 2002
file name: ~miallen/taxes.qbk
modified: no
user name: miallen host name: CRAPPYWS
process ID: 65534
While opening file "taxes.qbk"
(1) The Windows file server crashed.
If this is the case, be careful not
to by Windows servers in the future.
Quit, or continue with caution.
(2) Quickbooks friggn' crashed (again *sigh*).
If this is the case, use "file > recover"
or "quickbooks -r taxes.qbk"
to recover the changes (seek help about
recovery on the Internet or something).
If you did this already, try again. If that
didn't work try upgrading to the latest
service pack. If still no luck try to reboot.
If that still doesn't work, delete the swap
file ".taxes.qbk.swp" to avoid this message.
"taxes.qbk" [New File]
Hit ENTER or type command to continue
Re:Samba is awesome (Score:1)
Re:Samba is awesome (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Samba is awesome (Score:2)
That's weird. I did the same thing, but when I was done my wife only asked about the other things on the "to do" list.
No, you're weird - and lucky, too!
My wife doesn't wait for me to be done with some task before she asks me about the other things on the "to do" list.
Samba is unprofessional, just like Linux itself! (Score:1, Funny)
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:52:30 -0500
From: dmaziuk@yola.bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk)
Subject: GNU in Not Unix (Re: Markettos, RISKS-22.05)
Well, that particular risk is well known to professional Unix systems
administrators -- in fact, I was rather surprised to see that Linux
"killall" made the RISKS now: it's been [in]famous among Unix sysadmins for
quite a while now.
I see two issues here: one is that of false advertising, and another one --
of professionalism (not that they are entirely unrelated).
Stallman's rants about "LiGNUx" have a perfectly good technical reason
behind them: "Linux" (as in "OS based on Linux kernel and free software")
has lots of GNU software in it, and "GNU is Not Unix". Hence, Linux is
Not Unix, regardless of what Linux advocates may be telling us, it is
"GNU". (And, BTW, Unix is Not GNU.)
That was about false advertising, now let's look at professionalism.
Linux killall is perfect illustration of what happens when a product is
designed by a diletante.
Back in 1975 professionals designed an OS called Unix. Being professionals,
they realised the need for certain design principles. Such as splitting a
task into a number of smaller subtasks and designing a separate tool to
handle each subtask (that does one thing, and does it well)[0].
For example, shutting down a computer involves flushing (synchronizing) file
buffers to disk ("sync"), killing all running processes ("killall"), and
powering off the machine ("poweroff", at least on Solaris). All perfectly
neat and logical.
Along comes a layman who is unaware of the above principle, nor of
the significant "prior art"[1]. Result? -- read Theo's message.
(Various observations to show that isn't such a big problem (in
no particular order):
* professionals already know that similarly-named utilities often
behave differently on different operating systems,
* GNU folks never intended to uphold the aforementioned design
principle in the first place (see EMACS), so no surprises there,
after all, you'll only run "killall" on a Unix once.)
We have a bigger problem with another Unix principle: source code
portability.
As software becomes more complex, it requires more sophisticated build
tools. More and more open source software is being developed using GNU
compilers and build tools, and it is becoming dependant on them. The result?
-- While portability at the level of each compilation unit is still
maintained, the whole thing is not portable anymore. It fails to build on
non-GNU systems[2].
GNU project in particular did a great service to software community by
promoting and popularizing free software. It also did a great disservice by
turning the whole thing into a political issue, and pretty much ignoring the
need for competence and expertise on the part of software developers.
Instead of sound software engineering, we now have "Free Speech"
flag-waving[3].
With more companies (individuals, governments) jumping on Linux bandwagon,
the situation becomes eerily reminiscent of the recent dot-com boom; back
then we had The Internet and e-words, now we have Open Source and
Linux. Back then a few cautionary voices drowned in marketing hype, now
they're likely to be branded Paid Advocates of Evil Entertainment Industry
and Oppressors of Free Speech[tm] -- so they shut up and go learn Plan9, or
something.
(BTW, if it sounds like I'm singling GNU out, I'm not. Microsoft
et al., did at least as much as GNU to get us where we are now.
The whole thing would be very different if there was e.g. a
liability clause in every software license.)
But the $15 question remains: would you board an airplane designed by, say,
2nd year biology student as a night-time hobby? So what makes you think
their software design skills are any better?
Hmm. This came out sounding like a rant. Well, it probably is.
Dima
[0] Various aspects of the problems related to complex software systems are
very familiar to RISKS readers. They come up in, what? -- every other RISKS
issue? 25+ years ago Unix authors were well aware of them, too.
[1] Irix and Solaris "killall", for examle, behave like HP-UX one -- not
surprising, considering the "grand scheme of things" outlined above.
[2] Anyone who ever tried building open source software on Solaris using
native build tools knows that 9 times out 10 GNU "libtool" fails to link
shared libraries. The remaining 1 time GNU
determine compiler flags to make position-independent code (needed for said
libraries). And since GNU compiler and build tools are unable to produce
64-bit code on Solaris, the libraries, and all software that uses them must
be built as 32-bit binaries. Now, why did I pay for that 64-bit hardware,
again?
[3] And instead of one Shakespeare, we have a zillion monkeys with C
compilers. As history of Usenet shows, we shouldn't expect them to come up
with even "Hello World" anytime soon, not to mention "Hamlet".
It's useful (Score:1)
A great counter-argument (Score:2)
But seriously, if anyone ever says to you "well open source just copies the corporates" point to projects like the Linux virtual server project, or Tux, or Beowulf. Now Linux has achieved, then exceeded state of the art in the server arena, I wonder how soon it'll be before we see the same in the desktop market.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:1)
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:1)
-Ben
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:1)
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
I attended a lecture by Steve French of IBM/Samba where this was explained from his slides. The following is part of his explanation:
You can (possibly ;P) see his lecture notes
here [utexas.edu].
Warning: powerpoint slides.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:1)
I don't know if this makes sense, i don't know the full story, but just a thought.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:1)
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:3, Interesting)
As far as the Linux Virtual Server Project and Beowulf, sorry to rain on your parade, but clustering was around for a long time before that. They're awesome projects, that bring clustering to us for free, but they do do anything that's really new.
We'll likely never see the same in the desktop market. Anything truly new innovative is usually dismissed, because it is different than the status quo. Joe Sixpack end-users don't want innovative, they want what they're used to. Which is why KDE and GNOME aim to be like Windows and to a lesser extent Mac OS. Again, this isn't a slam on them per se, they make Unix more accessible for a lot of people, but they are largely copies of old ideas. And that's fine. Because they make the old ideas Free and accessible, which is a good thing.
There are already innovative things out there, like Squeak and Self which use the Morphic GUI framework. Most people, especially most "open source" developers, dismiss it, because it's not like everything else they've used before it.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
Nor would there be computers. Or much of the industrialized world.
Why would people be so hot about SMB compatibility if it weren't for MS's huge install base?
You miss the point.
If there wasn't SMB, there would be something else. Maybe it would be NFS. But file and print sharing are needed well beyond the "corporate" arena. Just look at how many people use it at home for file and print sharing between computers.
The nifty thing here is that Samba does it across platforms with relatively easy setup. And it does it cheaper, faster, and better than the company that invented (and continues to maintain) the thing. Which is a pretty sad statement.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
> industrialized world.
To an extent. The acedemic world came up with a large amount of the 'innovations' we use today. What else do you expect? Open software developers can innovate, certainly, but for the most part they choose to copy. No one can know what the world would be like with no corporations.
I don't miss the point, I think you do. I think you confuse the issue, and take "not innovative" to mean "crappy." A lot of people make that mistake, so it's not a big deal. That's not the case.
It doesn't matter if it's SMB, NFS, or anything else. An open source implementation of a standard created or propagated by some business isn't innovative. It's practical and cool, but it's nothing new.
Again, just because it's not innovative it doesn't mean it's not useful. Millions of people could use Samba- but what does that have to do with how innovative it is?
The post to which I replied was praising Samba as an example of how it doesn't just copy existing software/protocols, but that it innovates. Samba is not an example of this. It's a great example of software that works (and works better in many cases than the older commercial versions). That's important. Just because Samba does slightly better what someone else invented, it sure doesn't mean it's innovative.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
As to your other dismissals, you're missing the point. You don't understand the difference between the *appearance* of innovation and actual innovation. If I built a car that looks exactly like say, a Dodge Neon, but put in a fusion engine to power it indefinitely with no fuel, you wouldn't call that an innovation because, functionally, it's the same thing as a combusion-powered car.
Something to think about...
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
In short, your approach, to dismiss these projects as simply derivative, is antagonistic, pesimistic, and ignorant. You're obviously not a computer scientist.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
Admittedly, my area of study (or personal interest) isn't clustering, but if you're an expert, what are some things that Beowulf *does* do fundamentally different? The "just go check google" excuse is cop-out.
No, I don't dismiss them as 'simply derivative." That's your spin on it. They recycle old ideas, but do so in a way that makes them more accessible for more people. That's very commendable, but hardly innovative. I admit that my words have been antagonistic with people that cannot distinguish "innovative" and "good," or "not innovative" and "worthless."
Being emotional and knee-jerk about it doesn't change my opinion, or the facts. I'm sorry that you feel that my not praising something for what it is not is a crime, but I think that praising such projects for their actual strengths is far better.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
Anyways you're dead set that just because they use a MS protocol it doesn't deserve praise, and this is where I disagree. Again I say, it's completely innovative because they built it themselves, and made it cross platform; something that has never been done before.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
So this is why the get the award IHMO. Also, Microsoft innovating? How? Inventing a web browser? Inventing TCP/IP? Inventing a PC? Inventing the mouse? The graphical UI? The first DOS? The spreadsheet concept? Inventing the Messenger style communicators?
Please let me know which innovations are from MS and I will begin to understand.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
Slightly improving on something doesn't count as innovation. Well, according to Microsoft it does occasionally, but is that what you really want? For all open source projects to be just like MS even in their propaganda?
That's great he did it with no help from MS (why would he get it from them?) and no budget. That's awesome, and open source and free software definitely can work. But just because it's useful it doesn't mean that it's innovative, it means that it works well. Samba has allowed connectivity between Unix and Windows for a huge heap of people. But that doesn't make it innovative, it makes it popular.
In this case, MS didn't innovate either. They didn't invent the SMB/CIFS format. But they did popularize it, and if it weren't for MS making it relevant, no one would care about Samba. There's no reason a person on an all-Linux network would use Samba any more than they would AppleTalk.
The very thing that makes Samba worthwhile is that MS popularized it. Sure, SMB/CIFS exists in LanMAN, OS/2 and others, but those are piddly in comparison with the install base of Windows which has driven the development of Samba. Maybe you're not comfortable with that, but perhaps you shouldn't be using Samba+Windows.
What in the slashkiddie brain equates "open source project doesn't innovate" with "Microsoft does?" There's not some cosmic dichotomy between OS/FS and MS, where is one doesn't innovate in a particular area the other one does by default.
I don't use any MS products, except for at a 6 hr/week job. I'm not sure why the string of MS products has to do with this.
Re:A great counter-argument (Score:2)
I understand your point but fail to understand your critic. Open Source HAS indeed innovated in many areas. But that doesn't mean you don't need products that people already use and find very usefull not to say a must have. Thus the replacement or "coping" of some windows apps. But Microsoft didn't invent them either so the credit goes to some small companies and invididuals and nobody gives them a god damn credit about that.
I which "usefull" innovative products get recognition, yet value a lot the fact that i Samba allows me to deploy Linux NOW where would be otherwise imposible.
Samba will never really catch on ... (Score:5, Funny)
(It's a joke. Laugh.)
Why not port it to Windows? (Score:2)
Given the CygWin environment, it should be at least *possible* to port it.
Re:Why not port it to Windows? (Score:2)
Nope, not at all. Samba is not just a Posix application, but a pretty platform dependent _Unix_ application. Besides, there is no real way to mount file systems under Windows since there kernel is all whacko.
Re:Why not port it to Windows? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Samba will never really catch on ... (Score:2, Funny)
Guess it's time for it to catch on! (Score:2)
http://main.mswinxp.net/~lpackham/smbclient/
Unfortunately, the site seems to be down at the moment . . . here's the Google cache [216.239.33.100]. The package is also mentioned at the Cygwin Contributed Packages Page [cygwin.com].
How do I know all this? I asked the same question last week [slashdot.org]. Thanks to ashpool7 for answering *my* question. Heh.
open source poll (Score:1)
i noticed there's a poll on the same page about whether people will keep MS products, or go to open source wholesale... with the
Re:open source poll (Score:1)
At this point, this is how it looks:
No way. We use Office and are satisified with it.
10.80%
No way. We aren't satisified with Office, but we're in too deep to cut ties.
6.61%
We would at least evaluate an open source alternative.
28.74%
We would consider installing an alternative suite on a select few desktops.
14.44%
We would consider a wholesale replacement of Office.
39.41%
I couldn't help but notice the lack of "our company have already chosen an alternative to the skyhigh prices after the release of XP (Windows and Office). I guess that wouldn't get a very high score, but at least it applies to the company I work for.
congrat's (Score:1)
And the three are (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Samba - Created to bypass MS braindead sharing, and to allow Linux to act as file servers, so HW and OS platform choice is irrelevant
2) Java - Created to make HW + OS Platform choice irrelevant
3) BEA, based on a standard approach to app servers that makes chosing the HW and OS a best fit decision.
Anyone spot the connection ? 3 Tools all made to bring together disparate environments.
But of course this sort of thing can't be done, you can't be modular, you can't be portable, you can't be flexible (Java comes in versions for Smart Cards, Phones, PDAs, PCs, Servers and Mainframes) I know that because the DOJ believe it.
Re:And the three are (Score:2)
Isn't this the very nature of "enterprise" software?
Re:And the three are (Score:2)
Re:And the three are (Score:2)
Congrats, guys (Score:4, Interesting)
Samba is absolutely the most important service running on the server. It lets my wife and I share files, print whenever we like, and maintain private backups off of our computers. I'd put it down as the single most useful software package for anyone who wants to run a home network. It's the one we use most often and most transparently. Well, that and Squid...
When Microsoft completely and irrevocably blocks out Samba, that's when Windows goes out the door forever. But seeing as how we haven't budged from 98SE since it came out, I don't know that's really going to be a problem.
Smaba team, you folks rock my weird little computing world. Well done, and totally deserved.
GMFTatsujin
Re:Congrats, guys (Score:1)
I had to upgrade my windows box just to tolerate it (heh corprate version of XP...oooooohhhh...yeaaahhh)
Couldn't have done it without you, Microsoft (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Couldn't have done it without you, Microsoft (Score:5, Funny)
And I had to wear a suit
Here [samba.org] is proof
Jeremy Allison,
Samba Team.
Re:Couldn't have done it without you, Microsoft (Score:2)
"NFS also sucks but for different reasons"
-- Jeremy Allison himself at http://slashdot.org/interviews/00/03/24/0752258.s
How does one do domain trusts? (Score:1, Offtopic)
Can anybody tell me, or point to resources that explain how to do this? As far as I can tell, the latest stable version of Samba doesn't support this. Does anybody know if it's even slated for the future, and preferably before NT4 gets moved to unsupported status by MSFT? I had a look at Samba TNG, but their docs aren't much help. Unfortunately, I don't have as much time as I would like to just download, install it on my Debian box, and experiment.
Re:How does one do domain trusts? (Score:1)
Fer instance, whenever I mount an NT share on Linux I use "smbmount \\\\server\\share
slashdot me (Score:3, Insightful)
Come to think of it, maybe that's the way to spread the gospel of open source. Recognize good stuff and get slashdotted...
Cool (Score:1)
Though, I've had limited success with the new versions of samba and swat and all (for some reason I had no trouble figureing it out RH6.2 and RH7.2 through config files but my mdk 8.2 still doesn't work quite right) Even with that... SAMBA RULEZ B-)
Congrats Samba Team ... (Score:2, Insightful)
In small offices all the users need to know is that they have a new domain password. And poof! NT is gone.
If you're admin in a small business or support/consult for multiple ones, sit down with the deci$ion maker and compare the virtues of *bsd/*nix running Samba to WinNT/2k with its licencing and security issues.
You WILL close the deal.
No wonder MS would like to see them go away.
the 'slide
So How Long Until.. (Score:1)
Wouldn't surprise me if they did, given how hostile they are against the good folks at Samba.
Bravo SAMBA Bravo! (Score:1)
A stunning achievement!
ARRGGG!!! (Score:1)
The GPL would be equivalent to freedom of speech, freedom of expression and the freedom to choose. Microsoft would be seen as a totalitarian government whose hopes an ambitions are to destroy the basic freedoms that you and I have come to know and love.
We need to educate the masses on this problem, this isn't just ours, its everyone who enjoys the freedom to choose, the freedom to express and the freedom to speak their opinions. Get this in the media, do a compare and contrast of Microsoft and a Totalitarian government. Being making Microsoft a symbol of singularism and a dictorship. This is going to far, Microsoft must be stopped.
OT, but I'd like... (Score:1)
J2EE isn't software (Score:2)
Re:J2EE isn't software (Score:2)
Too bad it won't be around... (Score:2)
Great job folks. I hope we get to see new releases for years to come and I do not mean to rain on your parade. Instead I wish to remind everyone what is at stake in this.
Cnet Samba Article (Score:2)
MS questioned over CIFS license in antitrust trial (Score:3, Interesting)
Can you hear my head shake in disgusted disbelief? (Score:2)
Re:Duh (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Duh (Score:1)
How do you figure? You can find Windows admins dirt cheap, Windows supports most hardware, and most users are familiar with it. The TCO beyond initial licensing isn't that spectacular compared to other OSes.
Re:Duh (Score:1)
Amazon [com.com]
Cybersource [news.com.au]
Great Debate [jimmo.com]
You can find more on your own.
The most compelling proof for me has been my own experience working in mixed Windows/Linux/Unix environments. I know for a fact that my TCO has been so much lower for the Unix/Linux installations that there can not even be a comparison made with the Windows installations. I'm not bashing Microsoft, I'm stating facts from personal experience.
Re:Duh (Score:3, Interesting)
Windows supports most hardware
Really? I've got this old SPARCStation that I just couldn't get Windows running on no how. Booted up and installed fine when I tried Linux (SuSE 7.3 SPARC).
Ditto for a couple of old PPC Macs I have -- even though Win NT 4 claims to support PPC.
Even on x86, I spend far more time futzing with the Windows machines than the Linux ones -- and time is money.
Oh, and as for "you can find Windows admins dirt cheap" -- you get what you pay for. I'd sooner spend the money on an admin (whatever the OS) who knows what he's doing than spend the money on downtime, hacked sites and general cleanup after one of those "dirt cheap" ones.
Re:Samba's Long-Term Health in Danger? (Score:3, Informative)
Jeremy Allison
Samba Team.
Re:Safe as a server, in a business environment? (Score:2)
What do you mean by "serious"?
I used Samba as a fileserver when I worked for a
I also use it as a fileserver in a university environment (newspaper); that's only with about 7 client machines, though the same machine is also running netatalk to serve these files to Macintoshes, acting as a print server for the office (HP Laserjet 4000N), and running XDM to serve 3 X-terminals (which means it also runs Mozilla, StarOffice, GAIM, etc.). And all of this on a P-II 300 with 128M of RAM (when I inherited this machine, it was running Netware 3).
I haven't had any problems with it in either situation.
Re:Safe as a server, in a business environment? (Score:2)