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Music Media

Mashed-Up Music 274

An unnamed reader submits: "The New York Times is running this article (also available here) about "mash-ups:" songs created by digitally synchronizing instrumental tracks with vocal tracks from two (or more) existing songs. Often the source songs are wildly disparate, and the result is frequently better sounding than you might first expect. Who knew that Christina Aguilera mixes well with The Strokes or that Nirvana and Destiny's Child make a good combo?" This is an interesting answer to arguments that online music sharing is nothing but theft.
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Mashed-Up Music

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  • by DoorFrame ( 22108 ) on Saturday May 11, 2002 @12:32PM (#3502374) Homepage
    Just because something has artistic merit, doesn't mean that distributing someone else's musical creations (albeit in an altered form) without permission is not theft. It's still theft. It's just artistic theft.

  • Theft? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by QuodEratDemonstratum ( 569501 ) on Saturday May 11, 2002 @12:37PM (#3502399) Homepage
    How is it theft?

    With "traditional" filesharing, you can argue that if you download Christina whats-her-name's latest album then you're not going to buy it and therefore Miss Aguilera is losing out on the 15 cents that the RIAA will begrudgingly pay her.

    But the record companies are never going to release Christina Aguilera mixed with The Strokes, so who is losing anything? For there to be a theft, there has to be a loss.
  • by jvagner ( 104817 ) on Saturday May 11, 2002 @12:38PM (#3502404)
    Performance allows one to play (using the traditional term here) any song at any time without owing anyone.

    Why did cultural views change so drastically when digitization became so handy? Why do we lose more rights as technology progresses?

    Why is recording so damned special? I posit: because corporations have convinced you it is.

    It's not the only way.
  • by jmegq ( 33169 ) on Saturday May 11, 2002 @12:53PM (#3502475) Homepage
    ... distributing someone else's musical creations (albeit in an altered form) without permission [is] still theft.

    No, it's illegal distribution of a copyrighted work. Theft involves the removal of property from its owner. The lay term "intellectual property" isn't legally the same sort of thing as material property.

  • Re:Theft? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by elmegil ( 12001 ) on Saturday May 11, 2002 @01:05PM (#3502523) Homepage Journal
    If I put out a book that was nothing but paragraphs of faulkner alternating with paragraphs of hemingway...

    ...you wouldn't sell very many copies. So who would care?

  • by 3rnst ( 578960 ) <anukirk.pacbell@net> on Saturday May 11, 2002 @01:09PM (#3502538)
    Go get Sonic Foundry's "ACID". (http://www.sonicfoundry.com/download/step2.asp?DI D=307) Doing this stuff is a piece of cake. I really can't believe all the attention this gets, especially given how simple it is. It's a lot of fun, but does a better job of showing how much all pop music is the same than allowing one to devise exciting "new" compositions.
  • by DarkMan ( 32280 ) on Saturday May 11, 2002 @01:10PM (#3502540) Journal
    Leave aside wether it is theft or not, let me indicate why this activity is illegal.

    Copyright. Copyright is a right given to the author to allow them to control how thier work is used, with the intention that (but not restricted to) the rights granted to them will promote production of further works.

    There means that, if you wish to use an authors work , then you have to get thier permission. They can say no. It's that simple. Consider the GPL, which relies on copyright. It is not acceptable for a company to take GPL code, add a few bits, and then sell it on. The same applies to musical works.

    Granted, there is the clause of fair use. However, fair use is inherently limited, either in scope (to a few friends prehaps), or in extent (a 5 second sample, or a shot quote from a book). With my understanding, fair use doesn _not_ extend to the works outlined above.

    (Consider also, that there is more than just the perfromer, there is also the writer to be considered, in terms of claims to copyright).

  • Don't Bother (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mr100percent ( 57156 ) on Saturday May 11, 2002 @01:13PM (#3502553) Homepage Journal
    You can find them on Audiogalaxy, just search for the two artists in the same search.

    Personally, I think they suck.

    • Low quality bitrate, sounds like FM stereo in most
    • The songs have different tempos, so the vocals are speeded up or slowed to match the beat
    • The genres aren't that compatible. Who would want to mix Destiny's Child Pop with Nirvana's grunge? The fans of each genre don't play well with each other. Upbeat "Bootylicious" mixed with a mellow "Teen Spirit." Ick.

  • Re:Theft? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by JAVAC THE GREAT ( 239850 ) on Saturday May 11, 2002 @01:33PM (#3502622)
    Faulkner's still copyrighted?
  • by Chasuk ( 62477 ) <chasuk@gmail.com> on Saturday May 11, 2002 @02:23PM (#3502826)
    Okay, let's follow this logic using the print media.

    I take Stephen King's Carrie and Tom Clancy's The Hunt for Red October, and and I "mash" it together so that it is arguably a new and different work.

    The originals haven't been touched (literally, Stephen and Tom have the master manuscripts), and "clean" originals can still be published, so no plagiarism has taken place.

    But has plagiarism occurred? I argue yes, and the definition of plagiarism certainly helps my argument: to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source.

    Now, I submit that, if borrowing text is theft, then so is borrowing musical samples.

    We can quibble over definitions, and the greater need of society, and your rights to do what you want with anything that you have purchased, but you are still a thief if you deprive me of anything that is rightfully mine, and this includes depriving me of profits from any of my creations.

    If Stephen King and Tom Clancy want to have their works "mashed" together, then it is their right to decide whether this occurs, and their right to the resultant profits.

    Ditto musical creations and musical artists.
  • This whole concept of something ephemeral like an image or a sound being intellectual property is a manufactured concept. Consider that if somebody snaps your picture on the street and uses it in a jeans ad, you can sue them because you didn't sign a modelling release form. However, a news reporter can publish your picture or broadcast a recording of your voice free and clear. You don't inherently own your own image or the sounds you make, you only control them in certain contexts which are defined by laws. The laws aren't fundamental principles of the universe, they are rules we made up and they can be changed.

    The recording industry only exists because complex, expensive recording and transmission technology was invented before today's cheap and simple technology that does the same things. If Edison had somehow invented computers and the Internet before the phonograph, there would never have been a reason for a recording industry. We would be accustomed to making and trading recordings of performances since the beginning of the 20th century. It would be completely ridiculous for somebody to jump up and say that this is suddenly evil, and there is going to be a new industry that acquires proprietary rights to performances and sells copies on proprietary media. But it will be a great boon to musicians because they will get 5 or 10 cents for each copy that sells for $20. Huh?? Are you nuts??

    Until recording technology, musicians and other performance artists got paid only to perform. They have been able to make more money for a while, and a huge industry has been able to evolve that has made 100 times more money than they have. Well that's all fine, but musicians got along for centuries without any of it. Things have changed and we no longer need the temporary technology or the rules, so let's evolve and move on, and stop moralizing endlessly about it.
  • by el_nino ( 4271 ) on Saturday May 11, 2002 @02:56PM (#3502908) Homepage Journal
    No, it doesn't. Copyright infringement is illegal, just like theft is, but that doesn't qualify it as theft, just like it doesn't qualify as other illegal acts like murder or assault.

    Just because you think copyright infringement is akin to theft doesn't make it so.

    IANAL, but I'm not a lying troll as the above poster.

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