How Yoda Became an Action Star 769
fexter writes: "This article at Entertainment Weekly talks about Yoda's transformation from a puppet to a completely-CG character, and talks about the animators' horror at Lucas' transformation of Yoda: 'When Coleman and crew first saw them, they were appalled. They thought it was unseemly and undignified for Yoda to bounce through the fight like a Superball loose in a toy store.'"
Appalled? (Score:5, Interesting)
Finally, you understand that Yoda, although frail physically, has the ability to channel the Force in ways that no other Jedi can, at least as far as we have seen.
I don't think that the fight was in any way a detriment to the character, it actually just enhances his mystique. Besides, the irony of him finishing up bouncing off the walls, only to pick up his cane and hobble around again was priceless.
Fear the Wrath of Fandom (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems that Lucas had learned to fear the force of the Fans
He may be a slow learner, but apparently He does learn. Now he he would only make Episode I more meaningful.
Dignity? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't like any of the fights (Score:3, Interesting)
Burn him! (Score:4, Interesting)
Coleman found himself ''waking up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night,'' imagining he'd be ''dragged through the mud'' by website critics who'd say ''the guy who did Jar-Jar has now f---ed up Yoda. Burn him!'' Some of the animators went so far as to create alternate stagings, which Coleman showed his boss.
PS I wonder if we will get to see any of these alternate stagings on the DVD that comes out November
Re:Still should have been better (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Fight Scene (Score:2, Interesting)
One [non-essential.com]
and this
Two [doemainofourown.com]
That's the feeling I left with at least. Makes you realize how the destruction
of the Jedi Council must have left him old and alone.
(Dagobah Yoda) vs. His top of his form Council Leader persona.
Re:Appalled? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, I am of similiar mindset to you in someways and not in others.
Finally, you understand that Yoda, although frail physically, has the ability to channel the Force in ways that no other Jedi can, at least as far as we have seen.
I've always thought that the Jedi are a pretty clear reference to martial arts and that The Force is similar to the chinese concept of "chi". Chi is meant to be some kind of biological energy force that flows through the body of an individual (in fact, acupuncture is designed to reroute the chi through meridians in the body -- if you believe in that sort of thing). Chinese martial artists believe their superior fighting ability comes from being able to channel their chi into an opponent and use the opponent's chi against them. In a book by B.K. Frantzis entitled "The Power of Internal Martial Arts," he describes studying under several chinese kung fu masters. One of them was so old and frail that he walked into the dojo with a cane, after warming up was able to toss strong men around effortlessly, and then had to leave again with the assistance of a cane. So the idea that The Force can help one overcome their age-induced physical limitations isn't exactly new.
I don't think that the fight was in any way a detriment to the character, it actually just enhances his mystique.
I don't think that people object to Yoda fighting, it was the way in which he fought. Movies have somehow perpetuated the idiotic notion that martial arts is about jumps and flips. I think it would have been far, far, more impressive if Yoda moved around a lot less and demonstrated his skill with the speed, accuracy and ability to rapidly change his sabre strokes. He expended a lot of useless energy bouncing around. Remember, when you're doing a flip, you're basically defenseless and not doing any real attack. You would think that a wise old Jedi like Yoda would be able to use some pretty efficient moves on Dooku.
Just my two cents,
GMDBring back scale models! (Score:4, Interesting)
I say bring back scale models! Watch the old movies. See how the X-Wings look real? That's because they are! How about that AT-AT or "Chicken-Walker"? They looked great, too. They're just small, but hell, WE can't tell.
Yoda as a CG didn't look as real (shaddows and debth looked off), the vehicles, cities, characters, monsters, animals... everything CG looked horrible, except maybe for the light-sabers and lasers.
Wait, I take it back: R2-D2 and C3P0 looked good... oh yeah, they were real! My bad.
I would love it if Lucus, for Epesode III, tossed the CG and brought back the models, rubber masks, and puppets.
Re:Still should have been better (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd rather fight someone who is fighting "upright, and parr[ying] and feint[ing] like a madman" than a cracked out superball spinning around like a guided battle-axe. Just the opinion of an old tournament fighter, though. What Yoda did, takes more skill. Period. You can spin around all you want, and a lot of amatuer fighters do it. The trick is to be able to do it well and make it hard to defend. If done well, and fast, it throws your opponent off to defend and if they fail to defend, you get more power. Assuming you aren't doing focused strikes.. which is a whole different story.
an expedient solution (Score:3, Interesting)
I see the Yoda scene as an expedient solution to problem. I knew Yoda was going to "throw-down" in AOTC, and I wondered how they'd do it. No matter what I pictured in my head it didn't look right, and the animators had to do it on the screen. The solution Lucas came up with seems to be: make him move so fast you can't look at him while he's fighting. Part of me wants to call it it a cop out, but personally I think it works.
It also sort of bothers me when adults complain about Jar-Jar and now CG Yoda. We all saw the original trilogy for the first time when we were younger than we are now. I don't know about you, but I accepted the Ewoks then, and in subsequent viewings I've accepted them (for better or worse) as part of Star Wars package. Attempting impartiality, I don't think they are any better than Jar Jar or CG Yoda.
George Lucas himself, confronted by the fact that the Death Star explosion (and other explosions in a vacuum) shouldn't make a boom said something like: "A lot of people have a lot of money invested in this movie, and when something blows up they expect there to be a boom, so I give them a boom."
Science fiction can be heavy on the science or heavy on the fiction. I think it's clear which side of that fence George Lucas has chosen: you can either go to the show, suspend your disbelief, and be entertained. Or you stay home. But I don't think anyone should expect the prequel movies to become to them now, what the original trilogy was to them starting nearly 25 years ago.
Smart of them to preserve Yoda's "puppetness" (Score:5, Interesting)
At first, anxious to demonstrate CG's full photorealistic power, the animators took Yoda far beyond his crude former self, having his mouth form full phonemes and moving his body around faster. They also ironed out all the wrinkles: No more jiggly ears or shaky arms or broadly pantomimed walks. But these initial results ''looked creepy,'' says Coleman. ''It looked like a little green man. It wasn't Yoda.''
So they ''dirtied up'' the animation, aping all of Yoda's limitations. When original puppeteer (and voicer) Frank Oz saw the footage, he freaked. ''He said, 'You're even matching my mistakes! Those ear wiggles -- you've got to get those out!''' But Coleman, and especially Lucas, vetoed Oz's request, arguing that the evident puppet-ness of Yoda is in fact what audiences remember best about him, and they still expect it.
They were right. I was impressed by the fact that Yoda still moved like he used to, and didn't suddenly have overarticulated lips. I also noticed his ears trembling occasionally as his head moved. This was essential to selling us on the CGI.
I much prefer the more organic look of puppetry and stop-motion to some of the poorly done CGI in the last couple SW movies (and the "Special Edition" of the 1st trilogy). Two examples: In Star Wars: SE there was a lot of crap that was supposed to "enhance" Mos Eisley, including a Stormtrooper (I think) falling off of a beast he was riding. It looked stupid and fake. In ATC, there was the Sound of Music scene where CGI Anakin fell off of his giant snail, or whatever the hell that thing was. Also incredibly fake. Clue to Lucas: put REAL people on horses, or even on big stuffed models of the creatures you're portraying (like the Taun-Tauns in Empire), and film them falling off. Looks much better.
Re:Fear the Wrath of Fandom (Score:1, Interesting)
With the exception of Yoda dishing out whoop-ass like a cafeteria lady brandishing an ice cream scoop, Episode II sucked, especially in comparison to its immediate predecessor. Basically it was Anakin being too ballsy for his own good and/or whinging about what a bastard Obi-Wan is.
E1 had enough classic scenes going for it: the conflicting races of Naboo, the Queen's castle, the pod races, the big Naboo/Gungan/Trade Fed battle at the end... it was to me classic Star Wars. Not high cinema but space opera in the grandest sense. The pod race alone set car-chase standards that the rest of Hollywood will have a tough time living up to.
E1 sets the stage for the rest of the series perfectly. E2's plot seems rushed and has too much of the filler nature for my tastes.
"Yoda should be reserved..." (Score:3, Interesting)
I admit I thought the same the first time i saw Pat Morita playing ol' Miyagi, but he turned out all right too.
If you'd noticed (Score:4, Interesting)
Its alot harder to move Jedi/Sith around with the force than it is mundane objects.
And saying that size doesnt matter is relative: the amount of effort yoda had to put into stopping the attack is commesurate with the amount of energy that dooku put into it, perhaps compounded with the possible death of the jedi beneath it- he was being careful: and perhaps precient:
He may have wanted to let tyrannous get away, knowing that the master was his true quarry, and that dooku was not the master...
Re:Top 10 Things I learned from Attack of the Clon (Score:3, Interesting)
Might be the first "scientically accurate" sound fx in the entire Star Wars universe. ;-)
Yoda was never dignified (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:i hope this isnt redundant but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Smart of them to preserve Yoda's "puppetness" (Score:3, Interesting)
I dunno... some of those stop-motion tauntaun shots are some of the worst effects in all of Star Wars. Not sure I'd use those sequences as a model to emulate in any way.
Re:Appalled? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, did you ever see yoda get hit? His opponent had no opportunity to hit him. What other quality is there to the perfect parry, or the perfect stroke?
Why should yoda have fought like someone twice his size with none of his force powers? It doesn't make sense.
As the old saying goes: "If you're a master of the invisible kick, it really doesn't matter what your opponent knows." Similarly: "It is better to be great at one type of punch than good at ten." Yoda could move faster than essentially any other living creature. Since yoda's speed came from an unexhaustable source of power, why waste time with skillful moves on the gamble that your opponent isn't better at his attack than you are at your specific parry, when you can constantly bombard him with attacks that give him no chance to counterattack?
Something that a judo sensei told me: once your a blackbelt, you'll have some move that you do really well -- better than prettymuch everyone else. When you're a high degree blackbelt, you'll have for or five such moves. When you're practicing, you practice all of your moves. When you're in a competition (or fighting), you use the ones that you're expert at. yoda was an expert in the force. Why would he ignore that in favor of his skill in fencing?
Re:Wisdom? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I believe its called democratic republic... (Score:4, Interesting)
Lucas made a big deal in Episode II about Amidala being the "former Queen" of Naboo. He rubbed our noses in the fact that she "served her term and then the new queen appointed her to be a senator". No mention of this weird system of government was ever made in Episode I.
Lucas had however received quite a bit of criticism about the morality of the Star Wars universe after Episode I came out. Episode I made things look like the universe was one in which the only way to be great was to be born great. Young girls were born into monarchy and being given authority based on their royal birth alone (not just "Queen Amidala" but also "Princess Leia"). The Jedi were all genetically superior (high midiclorian counts). The Force was only strong for Luke Skywalker because he was the son of Darth Vader, not because he was our lonely hero. And the annoying kid Anakin was born by some kind of Immaculate Conception. Lucas altered things in Episode II deliberately to change those perceptions.
This is all despite the fact that the word "queen" in the English language by definition means a woman who marries a king or a woman who is the daughter of the previous king and inherits the throne.
Re:Ueshiba's undignified demonstrations (Score:3, Interesting)
On the other hand, if you are participating in a demonstration, you can only challenge such a teacher if you are willing to get seriously hurt. If a renowned teacher is publicly demonstrating a joint lock on you, and you have a counter, you had better be damned sure its going to work because it's generally accepted that the teacher is justified by responding to such a challenge by breaking your wrist. Rank hath its privileges. So, if you are getting joint locked, you go to the mat the fastest way you can, and if that is jumping headfirst into a somersault, that's what you do. The alternative is to get hurt (which is bad) or to hurt the venerable teacher (which is worse).
The public gets a little deceived, I guess, but they really aren't ready to understand the art. In reality, most flashy demonstrations are much less impressive than they appear. When real skill is shown, it is either to fast, too subtle or to strange to be comprehensible.
There are also cases where teachers have essentially hypnotized students. Demonstrations of Kong Jing -- which is supposed to be a lot like The Force -- fall into this category. The Aikido examples aren't like this; they're just the students doing what they are supposed to be doing in the course of a demonstration.