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Music Media

Real Will Include Ogg Vorbis Support 328

Posted by michael
from the sounds-good-to-me dept.
Skuto writes "Following the example of AOL with Winamp, RealNetworks has decided to give Ogg Vorbis their sign of approval and will be including support into their player software. The press release has more information. Meanwhile, independent listening tests are being set up to determine how well Vorbis fares against its competitors WMA, AAC and MP3Pro. You can help by signing up for the tests here." A couple of comments (1, 2) in our previous story provide the best description of what Real is doing, if you missed them.
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Real Will Include Ogg Vorbis Support

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  • by Bonker (243350) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:16PM (#3947345)
    Software decoders in Winamp, Real, and hopefully Quicktime is only the first step. Ogg will be in the pink when hardware decoders start showing up in the form of CD MP3 players with Vorbis Support and DVD players that will decode Ogg's as well as MP3's and other formats.
  • by longduckdong (579308) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:17PM (#3947350) Homepage
    This is great. The more exposure OV gets, the closer we get to getting world wide acceptance of technology without legal overhead and high priced licensing.
  • by krog (25663) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:18PM (#3947355) Homepage
    once iTunes supports Vorbis, then all the major players will support it. that means it will be ubiquitous, and anyone will be able to use .ogg without worrying about if someone has an ogg player.

    talk to Apple if you want to see it happen: feedback page [apple.com]
  • by gmhowell (26755) <gmhowell@gmail.com> on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:19PM (#3947365) Homepage Journal
    mp3 is alredy the defacto standard for cd-ripping. Support for Ogg is just too late to matter to anyone except for geeks on this site.

    The only company whose support would make any difference is... MicroSoft. If they blessed Ogg, you might see players ship that can handle it. Otherwise, it's just a nerd's pipe dream. If fraunhoffer ever gets serious, maybe you'll see some games and similar things ship with Ogg's instead of mp3's. But this race is already run.

  • by Mitchell Mebane (594797) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:28PM (#3947440) Homepage Journal
    mp3 is alredy the defacto standard for cd-ripping. Support for Ogg is just too late to matter to anyone except for geeks on this site.

    The only company whose support would make any difference is... MicroSoft. If they blessed Ogg, you might see players ship that can handle it. Otherwise, it's just a nerd's pipe dream. If fraunhoffer ever gets serious, maybe you'll see some games and similar things ship with Ogg's instead of mp3's. But this race is already run.


    I beg to differ. Although MP3 is firmly entrenched, the vast amount of encoders available ensures that an MP3 cannot be judged by bitrate. I know of several people who would be overjoyed to see a "real" standard for audio, with an official encoder. Just one encoder. Not an official one and lots of spinoffs. If the encoder is done right, and is free, open-source, and open to outside contribution, then there are no reason for spinoffs. This ensures identical quality across the board.

    Why is this important? File-sharing networks. I HATE downloading a 192 kbps MP3, and finding it to sound like a 96 kbps one made by LAME.
  • by garett_spencley (193892) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:29PM (#3947444) Journal
    I personally don't really give a shit if little Johnny down the street is using ogg or not.

    What matter to me is wether I'm using ogg or not and at the moment the answer is yes. All of the cds that I rip are ripped into ogg.

    And when I download music I don't care the slightest bit wether it's in mp3 or ogg because if I really like it I'll go buy the album and then I'll rip it into ogg. If I don't like it enough to buy the album then I don't like it enough to want it in a better format either so it doesn't matter.

    The only thing I would like to see regarding ogg is portable ogg players (that also support mp3 of course) and other devices like dvd players etc. But with Real and AOL blessing ogg maybe that's not a pipe dream afterall?

    Just because I prefer a certain format doesn't mean other people need to prefer the same.

    --
    Garett
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:29PM (#3947447)
    mp3 is alredy the defacto standard for cd-ripping.

    Heh. Maybe it was a few years ago, but it's been several years since I encoded a MP3.

    You've failed to understand that the most common use for CD ripping is so that the person who is doing the ripping, can listen to the music. Most of the time, when you encode, you don't care whether or not someone else can listen to the result. You just care if you can.

    So just about everyone is free to use the best tool for the job, that they know of. That's why MP3 pretty much died and Ogg took over about two years ago.

  • by B. Vhalros (468243) <nricci1&ic3,ithaca,edu> on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:36PM (#3947498)
    You know, I'm pretty sure the author is trying to be sarcastic here. Am I wrong? Other repliers don't seem to be getting that.
  • Re:Anybody (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:40PM (#3947531)
    I have done my best to get the damned thing uninstalled from one of my systems (the others have been cleaned or are clean), but it continues to elude me, causes a protection fault when I first log in and my (bootloaded) debugger kicks in. Very annoying.

    In my observation, Real is just another MS Borg type operation - they don't want to give you generalized utilities and leave you alone to make the decisions - they want to own internet audio, eliminate all other choices, lock everyone in and collect data on them.

    For me and audio, it's been WINAMP all the way for years. Elegance, flexibility, extesibility and ease of use. It whips the Real Llama's posterior. But I am worried that AOL will spoil Winamp (CRINGE "You've Got Audio!" /CRINGE) as they get more involved. I haven't tried Winamp 3 and their video support yet. And I'm not mentioning Media Player because I was taught not to swear.

  • by southpolesammy (150094) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:45PM (#3947547) Journal
    As long as there are companies like Forgent who try to claim frivolous patent royalties on formats that are for all intensive purposes the de facto standards, there will be a market for OSS products. In the compressed audio arena, this is Ogg Vorbis' greatest benefit, and one that may ultimately be its raison d'etre.

    Additionally, I've heard the comparisons of .ogg files vs. .wma and .mp3 files, and with little tweaking, .ogg is as good if not better than the heavily tweaked competitors. It seems to be the better choice overall. Acceptance will only be limited by usage.
  • by tmarzolf (107617) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @04:53PM (#3947603) Homepage
    Anybody else get the eerily and relevant fortune at the bottom of the page?

    "The medium is the message." -- Marshall McLuhan

  • New news for me (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Quantum Singularity (594841) <{moc.eticxe} {ta} {kalotnayrahcaz}> on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @05:00PM (#3947648) Homepage Journal
    I read about Ogg Vorbis a while ago, and I thought it would never become mainstream. But it looks like OV's really made a name for itself. I'm going to have to test some Ogg files against WMA and MP3. I've had CDex for a few months, but I never knew it could do this. Ogg Vorbis will triumph, and all this RealPlayer open-source news makes me feel a little less shaken by all the DMCA news. Thank you Slashdot!
  • get over it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @05:10PM (#3947696)
    a quote from ogg developer :

    OK, since only about half of the mail we get is about the name 'Ogg Vorbis', it's clearly time to karma-whore a popular subject and open this can of worms one more time.
    Our "The Name Sucks!"/"The name Rulez!" mail ratio is about 50/50. Some of you have threatened to kill us if we change the name, some of you have threatened to kill us if we don't. So you're gonna hear what I think about it. I'm not going to waste the opportunity my minor fame gives me for a healthy round of peer-mockery.

    I Like The Name. I Wrote the Software. The Name Stays.

    But there's more to this story than 'nyah nyah'. The 'rename Ogg!' forces have provided me with some of my favorite mail ever. I recall fondly the guy who went on, in great detail, why 'Ogg Vorbis' sucks, and that I must adopt 'a cutting edge, truly kick-ass name like "FreeMP3"!!!!!'

    As for 'Ogg Vorbis', I hadn't really meant the 'Vorbis' part to get tacked on. The name of the format is Ogg. Just Ogg. Vorbis happens to be the first codec. Had 'Vorbis' been perhaps one more syllable (like, say 'Sorensen'), we wouldn't have this problem. People would just call it 'Ogg' like God (that's me) intended. Of course, particularly obsessive people *do* occasionally say 'QuickTime Sorensen', but they don't get invited to parties much, and when invited, they are shunned. 'Course they're usually just arguing with the punch bowl so shunning is easy.

    I don't want my users to be shunned at parties, so I'm gonna help you out here. Just call it 'Ogg'. Ogg is a good, simple, very satisfying word.

    It makes a good noun, a better verb and can even be used effectively in a curse. It is a real word and contains no numbers. It has only two unique characters, making it simpler than mp3. It is only one syllable, making it shorter to say than mp3. If you still can't handle it, try reboot-reinstall.

    Monty
    xiph.org
  • by astrashe (7452) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @05:13PM (#3947717) Journal
    Why is ogg any more strange as a word than egg?

    Once people get used to it, it will be ok.

    At least it's a word, and not an acronym.
  • What about MS? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by GrandCow (229565) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @05:28PM (#3947800)
    Unfortunately many of the people listening to music (and arguably rip a decent portion of it) are still using Windows Media Player to listen to files. I'd say that in order for Ogg to reach critical mass support will have to be included in the next release of WMP.

  • by Monkeyman334 (205694) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @06:00PM (#3947951)
    Bah, you could have said the same thing about mp3 4 years ago.
    "Is that a CD?" (you probably could have said the same thing about CDs too, but I won't)
    "No, it's mp3"
    "What is an mp3?"
    "Mpeg layer 3, it's compressed audio"
    "Oh, aren't those illegal?"
    "Some of them, not all of them"
    "Oh, then can I have some?"
    "Sure" ....
    "I put it in my CD player and it didn't work."
    "No, you need an mp3 player"
    [continues]

    Those were back in the days when you got all your mp3s searhing on altavista and doing http transfers. Even before the ratio FTP servers. It was hardcore.
  • by Cyno (85911) on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @06:12PM (#3948009) Journal
    That's fine. You've all read about the recent Forgent JPG thing. So you know that patented formats such as MP3 could easily be licensed for a reasonable fee. If you want to pay that fee then feel free to continue using MP3s. But don't complain when, in a few years, you find yourself converting hundreds of gigs of MP3s to some other format to avoid licensing costs and to maintain compatibility. You've been warned!
  • by bilbobuggins (535860) <`bilbobuggins' `at' `juntjunt.com'> on Wednesday July 24, 2002 @06:31PM (#3948086)
    You remember back in like 97 when low quality Real-Audio streams were the rage and mp3 was like this new weird thing that nobody really knew about? (at least amongst me + geeks i knew)
    there is NO reason Ogg can't take over as the de-facto standard. especially if it really is a better format.
    sure, it might not be tomorrow but with the increasing ease of switching (i.e. with all this new software support), mp3 is _anything_ but entrenched and could be uprooted with half of users not even knowing what file type they are playing.

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