Et Tu Brute? EMI to Sue AOL Over Musical Infringement 122
QGambit writes "Salon.com is running an AP story about EMI Music suing AOL Time Warner for using songs from its music catalog on TBS and the AOL service without paying for them."EMI's publishing unit contends that AOL Time Warner is illegally using songs for promotional purposes from "The Wizard of Oz," "Singin' in the Rain," and other classic Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer movies."
Good. Now that they are turning on themselves, they will leave us alone for awhile."
Not connected to our Good Causes (Score:1)
Re:Not connected to our Good Causes (Score:1)
Re:Not connected to our Good Causes (Score:1)
Re:Not connected to our Good Causes (Score:1)
Re:Not connected to our Good Causes (Score:1, Insightful)
core, noncontroversial copyright law. Really pretty straightforward and irrelevant.
And how is the average gnutella user any different?
Re:Not connected to our Good Causes (Score:2)
Anyone who can't figure that out belongs in an aol chatroom with the rest of the lusers.
Re:Not connected to our Good Causes (Score:2)
Oh really? I don't use the services you mentioned, but I'm certainly shocked to hear that most gnutella users are involved in a commercial enterprise.
Re:Not connected to our Good Causes (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't worry... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Don't worry... (Score:2)
EMI????? (Score:2)
First! (Score:2)
I always wondered about this sort of thing, for example, how many movies in the 1990s used the Aliens soundtrack for preview clips aired on TV, and how many of them actually had permission to do so... I mean there were roughly 10 seperate movies from 2-3 seperate movie companies other than Fox, all using the same track (I forget the title, but lets just say it's from the "escaping from the fusion atmospheric convertor plant" theme... You know which one I'm talking about...
Anyhoo, who did they get permission from? Did they get it from Fox (the copyright holder on Aliens at least), ASCAP, the guy who orchestrated and copyrighted said soundtrack? Who gave permission?
Re:First! (Score:2)
--
Evan (no reference)
Never mind that... (Score:1)
Seriously, though, at some point songs like this should be considered enough of the "public consciousness" to be de facto public domain...
Re:Never mind that... (Score:2, Insightful)
The difference is that Strauss' music is in the public domain.
Check out PD Info [pdinfo.com] for answers to most of your questions about public domain music.
In particular, notice that Strauss is listed under s [pdinfo.com].
Re:Never mind that... (Score:1)
Re:First! (Score:2)
I figure that Elfman's "The Forbidden Zone" theme was easily signed over to Dilbert though, because not many here even remotely remember that movie...
Crimson Tide as well (Score:2)
Re:First! (Score:1)
music in trailers != music in movies. (Score:2)
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/28/magazine/28TRAI
They said that some of the most re-used music comes from "Dave", "Hoffa" and "Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story".
I don't think so... (Score:5, Funny)
--
Damn the Emperor!
Re:I don't think so... (Score:1)
Re:I don't think so... (Score:1)
Slashdot now has i18n compliant typos.
Re:I don't think so... (Score:3, Funny)
For a moment there... (Score:1)
...I thought you were talking about slashdot.
I think I'll give my coffee a few more minutes to kick in before I post anything else.
Ali
Re:I don't think so... (Score:2)
--
Damn the Emperor!
Re:I don't think so... (Score:2, Insightful)
NUMA, not massively parallel (Score:2)
For example, RIAA has a "Beowolf Cluster" of lawyers...
-- Terry
ever heard of multitasking ? (Score:1, Funny)
Evil versus evil? (Score:1)
Re:Evil versus evil? (Score:1)
Re:I hereby copyright... (Score:1)
Re:I hereby copyright... (Score:1)
Isn't she already?
Talk about picky (Score:5, Informative)
The meat of the story is at the bottom of the article. Apparently TBS owns the rights to the movies that contain these songs. TBS is in turned owned by AOL/TW. But EMI claims that TBS cannot transfer the rights to its own parent company! The exact quote is:
This just seems like an argument between lawyers about the fine print in an old contract. Not really relevant to the whole IP debate. (I'm sure that won't stop the /. hordes from descending, though.<g>)
-- Brian
Re:Talk about picky (Score:4, Insightful)
But buying a company solely for its IP, stripping the company to the bone and firing all of its employees is a fairly common practice in business. (Although usually this is done with software or patent IP not music, which is readily licensed.)
Making the songs non assignable, protects the company you licensed them to. It also prevents your arch enemy from licensing your stuff by acquisition.
Re:Talk about picky (Score:1)
What I don't understand is, why does EMI have the rights to the songs at all, rather than MGM? Wouldn't it be more like MGM licensing the songs to EMI for distribution?
This is going to be a very sticky case, I can tell.
Re:RIAA.... (Score:1)
They made their bed and now it's time to lay in it (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:They made their bed and now it's time to lay in (Score:2)
IIRC,
The movie (from which the songs in dispute stem) was released in 1939.
The Book was published in 1900.
You can get a copy of the Book (and most of the other works of Frank L. Baum) from project Gutenberg [promo.net]
-- this is not a
They smell death in Atlanta... (Score:2, Interesting)
I'll only be happy when Microsoft bows out or gets its act together...
Seems I read somewhere (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Seems I read somewhere (Score:1)
Re:Seems I read somewhere (Score:1)
Ted Turner purchase of films... (Score:2)
I've often wondered... (Score:3, Insightful)
Likewise, I hear music dubbed into low-budget films and shows on public TV; yet I somehow doubt that proper authorization was secured before they did so.
Does anybody know if I'm correct in my assumption that these things are, indeed illegal; and if so, why people get away with it and practice it so blatantly?
Thanks!!
Re:I've often wondered... (Score:3, Informative)
two different things - the movie clips in radio shows can be seen as either excerpted for parody, or for discussion/example (or a loose interpretation of 'educational') - IANAL, but this probably falls under 'fair use' in most cases.
as for in movies and tv, that's a different (and lengthy) story. The songs used in movies (or anywhere else, for that matter) have to get permission from the publishers of the works (think of 'publisher' in this case as 'stock holder' - you can trade and sell publishing rights, as opposed to copyright, which always stays with the creator). You have both copyright and publishing rights to a song as soon as you create it, but you can sell a portion of the publishing or 'controlling' rights to someone else, so they can give permission for use in media. they can in turn sell those or a portion, etc.
This happens in all instances of the broadcast of the song (in canada, the rights are handled by SOCAN, in the states, it's ASCAP or ... damn, i forget the other one), and usage permission from a publisher is required. I recently had two of my songs used in a movie, and although I share writing credits with other people, I was able to give rights for their use. But had they just used it, I would have had proper recourse.
A lot of songs reside on databases that the tv/movie industry searches when they need a certain 'feel' or type of song - they then find on e of the publishers (people/companies with the right to give permission) and work out terms of agreement.
A lot of times, low-budget movies don't bother because they don't expect to make money. you can't get money from someone who doesn't have any, in other words. In most cases in TV, they probably do have permission, and have worked out a percentage deal or one-time fee, depending on the popularity of both the show and music.
Re:I've often wondered... (Score:1)
"Spring Rain -- 2:32
Mood: Happy, light, energetic.
Happy Kangaroos -- 5:12
Mood: Energetic, triumphant, bouncy."
You pick the one that fits for your piece
Re:I've often wondered... (Score:1, Informative)
It’s still our fault!!! (Score:5, Funny)
are you sure? (Score:2)
The will settle out of court, and then come to you. They will take your recorder and junk it in the loo
they will break your burner and scare you wil their boo
AOl bit the dust, and you will too
wake up, Everyman! (Score:1)
I think the best thing to come out of this might be bringing the IP battle a bit more into the forefront in the minds of the average consumer - people who don't normally follow the whole DMCA, **AA, etc threads.
Doesn't even matter who does what in this situation - as it was mentioned somewhere else, it's most likely just a quibble over legalese that won't really change anything for us, but the social implications could be great.
I for one would love to see everybody sit up and say, "hey, if they're making this sort of stink among themselves, how long until it affects us?"
grin... wouldn't it be great if, instead of just a few thousand outraged slashdotters, there were millions of consumers that all of a sudden started a backlash, and changed the way we approach copyright and licensing? I feel it's long overdue and overlooked.
Re:wake up, Everyman! (Score:1)
No honour amongst thieves... (Score:2)
opera? (Score:1)
Information about public domain music (Score:1)
Time Warner sued for copyright infringement (Score:1)
How long? (Score:2)
Hello, McFly?
Re:How long? (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you remember the old story about the two guys who get being chased by a bear? The first guy sits down, ruffles through his bag, pulls out a pair of running shoes, and starts to put them on. The second guy asks, "What the hell are you doing? You can't outrun a bear!" The first guy replies, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I have to outrun you."
To win, media companies only have to do two things: first, become the most successful of the existing media companies, and second, raise the entry barrier so high that no other media companies can come into the picture and compete.
Of course, this is EMI's way of raising the entry barrier higher. I imagine the story submitter found this to be a "good thing" because he can't imagine himself as a content producer himself. More artificial restrictions on the people who create thing won't affect him in any way, because he knows he's never going to create anything anyhow.
Re:How long? (Score:2)
Why, in 2002, when we have these wonderous machines that allow us to create sublime and wonderful works, does no-one ever figure they'll create anything?
Do we lie down and give up now? Death seeps into our bones?
No, I don't think we will. A revolution will come...
Fighting words (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Fighting words (Score:2)
Actually, that was a pretty standard colloquialism where I was raised - I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out.
If they'd referred to "a whole mess of their companies", then you know we'd be fixin' to see 'em throw down.
Et tu, Brute? (Score:1)
I imagine in the bizarro world of Slashdot, bad cases which bring bad law are somehow good for the rest of us. But I fail to see how thickening the legal morass surrounding licensing is going to bring us to a better world. Being a part of the hoard standing around while Ceaser goes down doesn't mean there won't be plenty to smack us with too, before long.
Re:Soma FM webcasting station dies. (Score:1)
I imagine we will see more of this... (Score:1)
Copyright was intended as a temporary right to benefit creators and encourage innovation/creation. Copyright was not intended as the permanent (effectively so) monopoly over ideas it has become.
Classic songs and other media become popular and are never freed to public license. Consequently, cost increases for the meime. "Happy Birthday" is a good example.
Insidences of copyright violations will continue to increase imo due to the lack of entry of ideas into the public domain. Digital technology will make these violations easier to commit and easier to track.
Protection for creation is intended to benefit society not the creator. It is only an insentive to create so society and culture can reap a benefit.
Unfortunately, what we have now is a strong perversion of the original intent. Perhaps, one could almost say an inversion of the original thought. Creators are rewarded, but almost absolutely. Society never gets the free benefit.
As an example of the danger of unlimited monopoly over ideas, consider what would happen if patents lasted 100 years? Would society be better or worse?
This is good. (Score:2)
Lawyers were getting bored with chasing ambulances, and many were considering getting out of the business and starting a small organic farm in Provence.
Now they just need to dust down their 'media rights 101' material and find an abuse - preferably where the accused can afford to defend - as the case will last longer and therefore cost more money.
Too cynical?
Here come the judge... (Score:2)
EMI: We gave them personal use only
AOL: We have only made copies to ensure that they we don't lose the originial.
EMI: But they didn't keep it just for themselves they gave it to their parents.
AOL: Well the kids just can't be trusted not to lose this stuff.
EMI: Then the parents shared it with their friends
AOL: No Way, we played it for our own personal use, its not our fault 30 million people were watching.
Judge: Isn't this just what you guys complain about with people copying CDs ?
EMI + AOL: OH NO, that is TOTALLY DIFFERENT, that is ILLEGAL AND PEOPLE SHOULD BE HUNG, this is just verification of a fine point of legal detail.
Judge: Ah right.... lets go have lunch, you guys are buying as you'll bill it to your clients.
Re:Brute ? (Score:1)
Although Brutus certainly acted like a brute when Caesar supposedly said that sentence
Godzilla vs Mothra (Score:2, Funny)
I wouldn't count on that... (Score:1)
> they will leave us alone for awhile.
That's quite optimistic: these folks have legal departments large enough to sue half the planet and still find the resources to write EULA that would make Mephisto wince.
Re:what does Et Tu mean? (Score:1)
Re:what does Et Tu mean? (Score:1)
but Iulius actually said that in Greek when being stabbed, not latin.
Re:what does Et Tu mean? (Score:1)
tu = you
On a side note: Etc means Et Cetera (or however its spelled) means "and others."
The Cetera in FF7 where the "others"
Re:what does Et Tu mean? (Score:1)
Vigilante... (Score:1)
Bad (Score:2)
This isn't good, it's bad. Bad Scenario - they sue us and win. Good Scenario - they sue us and lose. Worst Possible Scenario - they sue themselves and lose intentionally just to set a court precedent to make it far easier to sue us.
Maybe not... or then again... (Score:1)
Oh, right. I forgot. The law doesn't matter anymore - it's whoever has the most money to throw at the system. Silly me.
The entire system must be changed (Score:1)
Consider:
You're a movie producer. You need some automobiles for a scene in your movie. What do you do? You call up a local car dealer and have them send over some cars. You use the cars in the movie and you pay the car dealer. End of story. At no time are you required to make any payment to Ford or General Motors (the creators of the cars).
Now you need some music for your movie. You go to a local store, you buy a CD and use the music in your movie. Guess what, you're getting sued big time because you didn't pay the creator of the music. Despite the fact that you legitimately purchased and paid for the music, just as you paid for the automobiles.
Sorry, but this makes no sense.
Re:The entire system must be changed (Score:1)
Now you need some music for your movie. You go to a local store, you buy a CD and use the music in your movie. Guess what, you're getting sued big time because you didn't pay the creator of the music. Despite the fact that you legitimately purchased and paid for the music, just as you paid for the automobiles.
Except that automobiles are intented for driving. CD's are purchased for that sound. Movies can produce sound, they cannot produce "you driving a car". That's all CD's do, make music, so by playing it in a movie, you've just taken what the cd was intented for for a single person and broadcasted to everyone watching the movie.
I loathe all this IP/Copyright crap, but I'm just pointing out just why auto-manufactures aren't bringing out the lawyers over this.
Re:The entire system must be changed (Score:1)
IP and copyright issues don't really have all that much to do with it.
Maybe we're close to the end after all (Score:1)
And the winner is.... (Score:2)
And the winner will come out stronger and with no serious rivals. Prepare to be crushed.
I just have visions (Score:2)
They don't all have to attack AOL, but part of the blob will be occupied while they try to find other things to do.
A lawyer with nothing to do is a very dangerous thing indeed.
It's like a nightmare.
Someone needs to... (Score:1)
Re:Someone needs to... (Score:1)
Something like "give 100 monkeys with typewriters enough time, and they WILL produce the complete works of Shakespeare."
Well, what can I say? (Score:1)