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Boston's Big Dig Delayed Because of Programmers? 250

Posted by chrisd from the twelve-billion-beautiful-dollars dept.
dalewj writes "This article in the Boston Globe explains that Boston's Big Dig will be ready to open on time, if the software developers and cable layers can get their act together." Turns out honeywell's software isn't quite ready.
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Boston's Big Dig Delayed Because of Programmers? More

Boston's Big Dig Delayed Because of Programmers?

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  • It's supposed to end? (Score:5, Funny)

    by IPFreely ( 47576 ) <mark@mwiley.org> on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:41PM (#4361514) Homepage Journal
    I thought the Big Dig was supposed to go on forever.
    • They'll have to finish the dig by candle-light...oh yeah it's a tunnel Absence of the Sun shouldn't affect it. SHOULDN'T...

  • take note (Score:2, Insightful)

    by vectra14 ( 470008 )
    hmm. you know your project's not going well when even your Minimal Operating Requirements list isnt finished.

  • Waiting on Programmers? (Score:5, Funny)

    by da3dAlus ( 20553 ) <dustin.grauNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:44PM (#4361548) Homepage Journal
    I thought the software was working fine? I mean, that little guy on the screen is going to town with that shovel...

    OH, "Big Dig", I thought you said "Dig Dug".
    Nevermind.

  • The Big Dig (Score:5, Interesting)

    by (H)olyGeekboy ( 595250 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:44PM (#4361550)
    I read about the Big Dig last year, thanks to someone's Slashdot .sig.

    Read more about it here. [bigdigsucks.com]

    Basically, the thing has gone on forever, and will likely go on forever, thanks to beaurocracy. Blaming it on the programmers/cablers is probably little more than spin at best, or pre-election blame shifting by local "oh-fish-shulls" at worst.

    The Big Dig is apparently a huge fiscal landmine that some people claim will never reap the rewards of the optimists who keep greenlighting the moneystream.

    (On the other hand, I live far away, and am only going on a few websites' worth of info. So that's only one point of view. :)

    • Re:The Big Dig (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Zelet ( 515452 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:49PM (#4361611) Journal
      I had a friend that lived in Boston for a long time. The traffic problems are so bad throughout the city that the people of Boston (a majority) wanted this to happen at all costs. This is a huge undertaking and I wish luck to all those who worked to complete it. One thing that I am not sure about (I should ask him), is what is the mass transit like in Boston? Do they have subways and busses that are easy and cheap?

      • Re:The Big Dig (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Frothy Walrus ( 534163 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:56PM (#4361685)
        Most of us up here in Boston just want the damn thing to end. It's getting there -- they've finished the bridge [bigdig.com] and lots of ventilation buildings, and they are starting to close up some of the massive holes they've dug.

        Mass transit in Boston is pretty good. you can go anywhere on the subway for $1, and the buses do a decent job of coverage too. The thing that sucks is that the subway turns into a pumpkin around 12:30am.

      • Re:The Big Dig (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        The Boston mass transit system (MBTA) has the oldest subway lines in the country and is more or less useless as a result. It's $1.00 for subway fare, unless you're taking the green line in from the metro-west suburbs, where it can be more. The bus system and the commuter rails are expensive as hell if you take it more than 15 miles or so and you're using it for work every day. As far as the auto traffic goes, I've sat in traffic for more than an hour at 11 p.m. at night coming into from north of the city on I-93. Every day, all day, you're guaranteed to hit a ton of traffic anywhere inside the I-495 belt if you're on a major road.
      • Boston has buses, subways, and commuter rail, all run by the T [mbta.com]. For opposing viewpoints, take a look at ne.transportation[NNTP] [ne.transportation] [HTTP] [google.com].

        -- Rest of my .sig: "be the majority of voters"

      • Re:The Big Dig (Score:4, Interesting)

        by dubiousmike ( 558126 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @03:24PM (#4361915) Homepage Journal
        Subway and bus system is ok, though at times of the day is far too crowded to even get on when it arrives. Where the "T" can't be found, buses can. The coverage is commendable. Having said this, you would think that its pretty decent.

        But alas, I lived in Brighton (part of Boston - uses Boston police force) which is about a 10 minute drive from my work (near South Station, heart of Big Dig). For me to take pulic transportation to work, I had to use a combination of bus and "T" or just another bus that was few and far between. It would take me at least an hour to get to work via public transportation with either method.

        This is why I moved an hour south of Boston and drive (or occasionaly bus) to work. My rent is now 1/3 of that in Boston and my travel time is the same as before. Of course, my commute also contributes to the traffic problem. I am 55 miles south - commute ranges from 60 to 90 minutes. Commute home can take longer at times.

        FYI, there is a commuter rail that is planned to extend into the town (Fall River, MA) I live in in a year or two. This was supposed to actually be up and running by now. Unfortunately, the budget for the commuter rail is tied to the Big Dig as well. So when the Big Dig f's up and needs more money, they push back the expansion of said commuter rail.

        Exasperating. :P
        • Correct. One of the big debates is what to do with the "green spacE" that will be recovered when the central artery is destroyed, and this open area downtown results. No one seems to advocate affordable housing (I don't mean low income, I mean, 2 bedroom condos for under 250k). The space isn't contiguous - so people who advocate a model similar to the Ramblas of Barcelona, or more parks are crazy.

          Boston is such a mess, and so bureaucratic that the only new housing is for the insanely rich because its such a bother to get anything built.

          ostiguy
          • I would also add that Universities being such a huge part of Boston, that students have also played a big part in the increase of rent in the area.

            When looking for housing, plan on competing with students for it, including internatational students who seem to have more money than God.

            If you don't secure a place to live in May, you will have a difficult time finding anything other than a complete sh1thole for $1500 a month ($2000 if you want 2 bedrooms). Don't forget that you will pay at least $100 a month for parking.
      • There are 4 lines on the Subway system, and all are based upon getting people downtown. The subways head downtown and out. Within each of the 4 colored lines (5 if you count the new Silver Line, which is a fancy bus at this point, but will be a legit extension to the Subway system in 10 years when completed) there are some splits, where they go to different, yet similar locations.

        This was useful when all employment/shopping was downtown, but presents some problems as the economy spread from downtown Boston. If you are going anywhere that requires switching trains, you will be spending a minimum of 30-45 minutes on your trip. Busses can help with this, as they cut between different lines, but until a few months ago the route numbers weren't posted and the website remains difficult to use. While commuters can figure out the busses to simplify their commute, it simply isn't practical for an individual trip.

        Beyond that, the system gets really slow. I live out on the Green Line, which is the most residential of the trains. After Kenmore Square, they become "Trolley lines" that are above ground, but have a dedicated area for their tracks. This means that the trains can't pass one another if one gets bogged down, and there is no meaningful way to run express trains.

        The road system is a collection of disasters because of Boston's heritage. Boston is unable to rework their roads without shutting down the city, and an execessive number of buildings are declared historical, stopping progress.

        On top of that, the elevated central artery, which the big dig will replace, cuts through Boston. Now ask yourself who would want to live right near a highway (and walk underneath it), and you realize why the Central Artery trashed the neighborhoods. Walking under a highway is a strange thing, and it cuts neighborhoods apart. This results in social costs in excess of the traffic.

        Part of the problem with the subway system is that it is too slow. Even in Rush Hour, it is faster to drive then take the subways. If the trains go above ground (the Green Line), they are stuck waitting for lights like cars, and they have a 30 MPH limit (same as the official speed limit) plus they need to stop.

        An additional problem is the system only runs trains once every 10 minutes (most busses are every 30 minutes). This makes the subway painful for short trips. If you are only going a few stops, you might spend 15 minutes waitting for the train for a 5 minute trip.

        Boston has transportation nightmares. Unlike New York, that does construction at night, all road construction is done during the day in Boston, including during Rush Hour. The unionized workers don't have to put in overtime, so sometimes jobs will involve ripping up a street on Thursday/Friday, then MAYBE getting to fix it Monday or Tuesday of the next week. However, if it wasn't planned that way, it may be a week or more before they return with equipment.

        The Big Dig will help with the highway crunch, but won't solve the general problems in Boston. The only nice thing will be if the Big Dig does enough, then people will take Highways (they'd be faster than city streets for a change) which might alleviate some of the other traffic. More likely, driving to work in Boston will be more pleasant, so people will get more cars bringing us back to the status quo.

        Well, at least the friends of the powerful were able to buy all the slumlands next to the highway that is about to become parkland. They're going to make a fortune on those luxury apartment complexes that used to be crack houses or slums.

        Alex
        • This means that the trains can't pass one another if one gets bogged down, and there is no meaningful way to run express trains.

          They could get around this by "expressing" trains on the lines. For example, every once in a while, you can get a Red Line from Park St. direct to Harvard (skipping three stops). I've also been on a Green Line D train that expressed from Fenway to Resivoir. I have no idea why they don't do this more often, particularly for Sox home games. The killer is when the driver has to deal with a rider in a wheelchair: the operator has to get out of the train, find a manually operated lift at the station (which looks like it was slapped together by the kids at the local vocational school), wheel the rider onto the thing, crank it up to car-height, let the rider wheel on, and then crank the thing down, fold it back up, and put it away. This operation takes at least five minutes, thereby delaying all of the cars behind it. Some stops have ramps that help this somewhat, but the operator has to pull the train to the exact location of the ramp, etc. I have nothing against the wheelchair people, but the T should be doing a better job expediting this process.. Many of these transfer process are manual: for example, when a train starts its journey from the Lechmere stop, the operator has to pull the train up, get out of the train, find The Crowbar, and manually switch the tracks. This operation has to be done at least once every ten minutes, if a train leaves from the alternate set of tracks.

          But, if a train does die on the tracks, they typically have "crossovers" every couple hundred of feet.. (This may not be true of the B/C/E lines, which run down Comm./Beacon/Huntington though.)

          Unlike New York, that does construction at night, all road construction is done during the day in Boston, including during Rush Hour.

          That's not entirely true... They work at night, particularly on Rte. 128, but sometimes up on I-93, too.

        • Boston has transportation nightmares. Unlike New York, that does construction at night, all road construction is done during the day in Boston, including during Rush Hour. The unionized workers don't have to put in overtime, so sometimes jobs will involve ripping up a street on Thursday/Friday, then MAYBE getting to fix it Monday or Tuesday of the next week. However, if it wasn't planned that way, it may be a week or more before they return with equipment.
          Not true. In fact, the MTA has gone through great pains and costs to work at night. One of the reasons costs are so high for the Big Dig (and something most people do not give it much credit for) is that in its initial plans, it was written that they would accomplish this monumental task with little impact on the status quo.

          Quoting from their website [bigdig.com]:

          The Central Artery project's unique challenge is the fact that it is being built in the middle of a city. Work of the CA/T project's magnitude and duration has never been attempted in the heart of an urban area, but unlike any other major highway project, the CA/T is designed to maintain traffic capacity and access to residents and businesses - to keep the city open for business - throughout construction. Highway projects of the 1950s and 1960s, when the interstates were first built, gave very little consideration to the communities in the path of the new roads, with disruption and dislocation the rule of the day.
          I think they've done fairly admirably in this respect. To this end, they also have sound level testers who make sure that equipment used at night is run at a low enough level so as not to affect those sleeping nearby. They use specifically-designed shielding at the project where they work at night to dampen both noise and vibrations. In fact, maybe they've been doing such a good job at keeping it quiet that you didn't even think they were working.. :)

          In the meantime, I also think a 15 year plan for a project this huge is reasonable and something still totally within their reach....software delays or otherwise. It's also interesting to note that a majority of the land recovered by removing the Central Artery's above-ground eyesore is going to be returned to the city in the form of parks/trees/grass as opposed to being auctioned out as lots for more building.

      • what is the mass transit like in Boston? Do they have subways and busses that are easy and cheap?

        As a "car-free by choice" Boston-area resident: fuck, no.

        The MBTA is massively erratic. Different lines (both bus and subway) get different levels of service. Most of the other commentators in this thread have talked about the Green Line, which is abysmal (runs *in* traffic on several routes). I live on the northern arm of the Red Line, which is fantastic; however, it splits into two southern arms which are, definitionally, half the frequency of the unified northern arm. Thus it takes a Harvard professor half the wait to get a train to Boston Common as it does a housewife in Fields Corrner, despite them both being "on the Red Line". The Orange line is fast, but is essentially a commuter line, connecting impoverished residental areas to downtown; at times it is no more frequent than every 20 min, and is usually overcrowded and filthy. And so on.

        The busses are a valient attempt to make something work in what must be the most bus-inimicable metro area in the US. But they still suck. For comparison, the MUNI in SF publishes (or did when I lived there 10 ya) a massive book of bus schedules, to which the busses run, +/- 2 minutes; it had many "timed connections" throughout the city whereby one bus would not leave a certain stop until another bus had dropped of (transferring) passengers. That's inconceivable in Boston. There are NO timed connections, in the entire bus system. You have *no* idea when one bus drops you off when the next bus will really be along. Busses regularly get 5 or 10 minutes behind schedule -- in part because this is traffic hell, and there's nothing to be done about it.

      • I'm not a Boston resident (but I intend to be so within a year and have visited a bit). It's painfully obvious that the Dig is necessary to reunite the North End with the rest of the city...good on its own merits and gets the historical stuff connected with downtown, making life easier for the tourists. In the meantime, of course, the situation is worse.

        As far as the overall effectiveness of the T, I've been pretty impressed. It's cheap and works; beats mass transit here in Grand Rapids hands-down of course, but also bests the CTA (just got kicked off the L this weekend "no trains further north tonight, sorry") and, IMO, the Washington Metro--which is pretty nice but infrequent and expensive.

    • Re:The Big Dig (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Shynedog ( 555818 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:59PM (#4361716)

      The Big Dig has indeed been going on for over a decade now. As a Boston resident, I'm definitely tired of it. But to be fair, it's not behind schedule simply due to incompetant beaurocrats (although there are plenty of those). The project itself is the single most complex undertaking of civil engineering in the history of the U.S. Any project of this scale is going to have delays.

      They actually have a pretty good website [bigdig.com] It has a really neat gallery of huge aerial photos, as well as some great maps of the whole thing. A good time-waster, if you enjoy looking at maps.

      • Re:The Big Dig (Score:3, Interesting)

        by dhogaza ( 64507 )
        No, it's not just due to incompetent beaurocrats. This is Boston, after all, and there's been the traditional overhead of corruption, too. In fact, the dude who was project manager until one or two years ago has been blackballed by the Feds, i.e. will never be allowed to manage a federally-funded project again.

        Not only did the project go over budget by a big chunk, but a big chunk has been unaccounted for (or was during the days when I was spending about three weeks out of every eight in Boston, days which came to an end 15 months ago).

        No one knows for sure where all the money has gone, though anyone familiar with Boston is not surprised nor unable to make a few guesses.
  • Though government waste -- and that's what the entire project is -- is always bad, at least in this instance they're looking out for the public's safety, unlike private corporations that often neglect to do so.

    Project managers unable to handle scope creep may demand unreasonable schedules, but thank Cthulhu in this instance that they are not deploying the code ahead of time and deciding to patch it later!

  • Software holdups...? That's kinda silly. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wls ( 95790 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:47PM (#4361580) Homepage
    I don't understand how the software developers are holding up laying of the infrastructure. One would have thought that the software would be fairly independent of the media on which it operates.

    • Re:Software holdups...? That's kinda silly. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Peyna ( 14792 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:53PM (#4361645) Homepage
      That mindset is part of the problem. Most likely what happened was they needed something done a different way than originally planned, and since they assume software is the easiest to change, they put the burden on them to conform to everything. My guess is they tried to separate the software from the rest of the system and just assume the software would be easily able to change and keep up with everything else as needed, when instead they should have been developed together and treated as parts of a whole.
      • "This is the network of cameras, traffic-flow sensors, carbon monoxide gauges, and electronic signage, all linked to an Operations Control Center in South Boston"


        Perhaps I imagine long strands of fiber optics or ethernet cables with the ability to plug arbitrary devices at the ends. Allow for high enough bandwidth, and even if you have to sit on driving technology to catch up, you still know how much data you can pump through a fiber.


        It'd be really, really, really sad if no one planned the project out, or even worse, planned it out in such a way that it depended on specific transport media. Test labs and simulations ought to go a long way for telling if something is scalable.

    • I don't understand how the software developers are holding up laying of the infrastructure. One would have thought that the software would be fairly independent of the media on which it operates.

      What I gathered from the article was that both software developers AND cable-pullers were running late, not that the pullers were late because of the developers.

      The pullers were probably delayed by the flooding in the temporary Fort Point Channel tunnels, as was everyone else.

  • It can happen (Score:3, Funny)

    by tiltowait ( 306189 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:48PM (#4361600) Homepage Journal
    Remember the Denver airport opening delays because of the baggage system [caltech.edu] bugs [netfunny.com]?

  • favorite quote (Score:5, Funny)

    by skydude_20 ( 307538 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:49PM (#4361603) Journal
    Larry Bossidy, the just-retired CEO of Honeywell, one of the Dig contractors that may contribute to delayed openings of the tunnel sections, is in town tomorrow to give a speech at the Marriott Long Wharf to promote his new book. The title? Funny you should ask. It's called "Execution: The Discipline of Getting Things Done."

  • Why Federal $$$ Are Being Used. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:51PM (#4361625)
    Because of the Federal Aid Highway Act (FAHA) of 1956. Impressed by the autobahn's usefulness during WWII, Eisenhower wanted the same thing to be available in the U.S. in case the damned Russians ever invaded and we needed to move a lot of troops quickly. All major cities and their airports were supposed to be accessible, and the Big Dig was funded because it connects I-90 to Logan airport. The tunnels are also able to withstand heavy conventional bombing. Pretty damned cool.
    • Comeon, dude. The Interstate Highways were indeed funded as a defense project - in the 1950s. The situation changed a bit in the early 1970s when US metro areas went from the "1 car + public transportation + ankle wagon per family" model to the "number of licensed drivers + 1 autos per family" model of transit. In case you hadn't noticed, this produced a big increase in the number of cars on the road, and hence traffic.

      Boston was hurting in a big way (pun intended) due to trying to cram 1980s traffic down 1700s streets. Something had to be done. Whether the Big Dig was the right thing or not, and how efficently it was carried out, can be debated. But let's not bring poor old Dwight into it!

      sPh

    • Re:Why Federal $$$ Are Being Used. (Score:5, Informative)

      by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @03:10PM (#4361812) Journal
      Actually, the Eisenhower dollars were to be meted out back in the 50's and 60's.

      Boston had already jumped the gun, and spent their own cash building their SkyWay, which turned out to be an utter piece of crap.

      So in the 70s they realized it was worthless, it divided the city in half, was ugly as hell, and couldn't support anywhere near the amount of traffic they had. So they came up with the idea of moving it all underground.

      Now, they couldnt afford it. So they went to congress with the notion that "hey, we didn't use up our eisenhower dollars, so you can give them to us now".

      Critics noted that Eisenhower wasn't president anymore, and the dollars for the Interstate plan at the time were a 'use it or lose it' type of thing. Many cities and states didn't use their entire allotment - they can't just go to congress now and ask them to pony up the dough.

      They got preliminary approval, but then Reagan scrapped it, calling it pork-barrel politics. Which it was.

      Funding was eventually re-approved, and here we go. Pissing away billions to correct a localised inconvenience.

      Most non-bostonians call it the Money Pit.


      • I've always thought of it as "our local answer to corn subsidies."

        At least we're not being paid NOT to build a highway.
        • At least we're not being paid NOT to build a highway.

          Actually, that is exactly what happened. Boston didn't want to make the sacrifices needed to have a real freeway going through downtown. Now they come up with the idea of an underground freeway, to not have to relocate anyone. This is crazy. Instead of having to make the hard decisions, billions upon billions of dollars are spent on a luxury that is only affordable because the federal government is funding it. If every city decided they wanted to move their freeway underground at great expense do you think that MA would support it?

    • The tunnels are also able to withstand heavy conventional bombing.

      Clearly, this is a design claim that needs to be tested. I'll call the military.

  • Says the Boston Glob article: "Project engineers are more optimistic than the auditors."

    Oh. Okay then.

  • Tolls (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tycho ( 11893 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:53PM (#4361644)
    So how much will it cost to drive on the highways in Boston after the Big Dig is completed? And why did everyone else in the country have to pay for something that will potentially not be free to drive on?

    • Re:Tolls (Score:3, Informative)

      by crow ( 16139 )
      Actually, the tolls are going up on other highways. The Big Dig is mostly I-93, which will remain free. The tolls have already gone up on I-90, and are projected to go up again later. The only part of the Big Dig that will have tolls is the new tunnel to the airport. I expect they could do the accounting to say that that tunnel is the part that the state paid for.

      Though I would much prefer higher gas tax an no tolls whatsoever. The Mass Pike is a huge patronage system that exists primarily for the sake of providing perks for the powerful and connected. (Note, for example, that they didn't reduce the number of tolltakers when over half of the cars now use automatic EZ-Pass style transponders.)
    • Many of the tolls on the Mass Pike (I-90) have already been doubled due to cost overruns. This has greatly upset people because those who are coming from the west on the Pike aren't the ones who will be gaining an advantage from the Big Dig.

      Local politics are going nuts over this...

  • Of course.. (Score:2, Flamebait)

    by stratjakt ( 596332 )
    Like any gigantiforous project thats so overbudget as this, the programmers are the first to get scratched, in favor of another backhoe or bulldozer.

    Then they're the first to be blamed when the entire project is late.

    Unlike the other aspects of this project, they can't gauge progress or work yet to be completed based on tons of dirt moved, or number of steel beams installed.

    So when Skeeter McPencilneck comes along to audit the project, he can't see a little progress chart with solid numbers, and of course its the software team to blame.

    I'm reminded of a story one of my prof's told me, slightly off-topic but shows how 'real world' managers deal with coders.

    Some General was overseeing the design and creation of a new fighter plane, and was busy going from team to team measuring the weight of every last nut and bolt used so he could nail down the operating specs.

    So he gets to the software control team, and asks them "how much does your part of the system weigh?"

    The team replies "Well, nothing sir"

    The General is incredulous and miffed at the answer. He storms around the office until he finds a pile of punchcards. He holds them up and says "A-Ha. These have weight! You lied to me."

    And the team replies "No, sir. The software isn't the punchcards - it's the holes in them"

    Sidebar:

    That city should have had to just stick with the useless skyway they pissed away all their dollars on. What a waste.

    Lots of cities have terrible traffic problems. I'm stuck halfway between Baltimore and D.C., both could use a new multi-billion dollar traffic infrastructure.

    • Re:Of course.. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by bluestar ( 17362 )
      Lots of cities have terrible traffic problems. I'm stuck halfway between Baltimore and D.C., both could use a new multi-billion dollar traffic infrastructure.

      And when the Big Dig is finished, and Baltimore, D.C., Manhattan, Detroit, Chicago, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. see how cool it is, they'll know how to do it because we'll show them how.
    • Lots of cities have terrible traffic problems. I'm stuck halfway between Baltimore and D.C., both could use a new multi-billion dollar traffic infrastructure.

      Well, D.C. at least is getting a nearly-a-billion-dollar infrastructure improvement: the redesigned Mixing Bowl [springfiel...change.com].

  • Clean Air (Score:3, Funny)

    by linderdm ( 127168 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @02:59PM (#4361715)
    I know this isn't exactly about the article (software related), but I saw a television program on Discovery or TLC or something recently about the Big Dig, which described the ventilation system would make the air INSIDE the tunnels CLEANER than the air OUTSIDE!

  • I-93 (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anne_Nonymous ( 313852 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @03:06PM (#4361773) Homepage Journal
    I-93. Where else can you park in downtown Boston for free?
  • Boston's Big Dig will be ready to open on time

    This is quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever read on slashdot. "Open on time"?!?!?!? How can you say that for a project that is already years behind schedule and billions (or maybe just millions) of dollars over budget?!

  • More roads (Score:5, Funny)

    by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @03:10PM (#4361817)
    Building more roads to combat traffic congestion is like buying a bigger belt to combat obesity.
    • where can I get one of said belts? :P

  • I'm a programmer in BigDig... (Score:5, Informative)

    by LordHunter317 ( 90225 ) <askutt@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Monday September 30, 2002 @03:16PM (#4361861)
    The problem is not the programmers. Its the **** software we were given to work with.

    The problem starts with the fact that we are the second contractor to pickup this problem, and we are required to adapt the first contractor's software to our needs. The software we have been given to work with is shoddy, badly coded, and still targets VAX C (even though it runs on an Alpha). Problems tend to crop up, and no one here really understands the system, including our contractors from the original system.

    We also have all sorts of problems hiring (due to problems both on our side and their side of the table). We are never given enough money or time, and everyone here is vastly overworked.

    The CA/T (Central Artery/Tunnel, or the BigDig) doesn't understand our needs or concerns, and getting help from them and their reps is like pulling teeth. Its like going to a frickin' Wrestling match, with petty arguments and name calling and bullshit all around.

    Their requirements are frequently illogical and unclear, meaning time has to be spent on fixing the requirments that could better be spend on coding. We have all sorts of reliablity problems with the Alphas and assoicated hardware. It also takes about a pound of paper work and 3 days to be able to do anythign to the production systems in Boston.

    The project is just one political mess, and to be honset, we are the CA/T's bitch, and get blamed for anything. The truth is that ev eryone is behind schedule, and that even if we are late deliviering, it will not matter because the tunnel will not be physically completed anyway. Kinda hard for the software to work if there's nothing out there for it to work with.

    Ok, enough ranting for now. Feel free to reply or e-mail questions.

    • Mod parent up. (Score:4, Informative)

      by TheReverend ( 138750 ) <`moc.onitnessoc' `ta' `yeroc'> on Monday September 30, 2002 @03:23PM (#4361903) Homepage
      I'm a programmer on the project also, he got everything exactly right.

    • Yet you have time to read /. (Score:5, Funny)

      by gatkinso ( 15975 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @03:30PM (#4361952)
      Get back to work, you.

    • Re:I'm a programmer in BigDig... (Score:5, Funny)

      by rodbegbie ( 4449 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @03:52PM (#4362138) Homepage
      Forgive me if I misquote:

      * It's not our fault, it's the previous contractor's.

      * It's not our fault, it's management.

      * It's not our fault, it's the client.

      * It's not our fault, the requirement are fuzzy.

      * It's not our fault, it's the politics.

      Well, bad news, bucko: Welcome to the software industry. You've just used up your quota of excuses. You cannot bitch about a project until the next fical year.

      rOD.
    • That finger pointing rings a bell. I used to work on Globalstar, the Qualcomm/Loral attempt at satellite phones. We had a huge deadline and there was no fricken way it would be met. We also had a launch of our first 12 satellites coming up soon. They were on a Russian Bird with something like a 25% failure rate. We all watched the launch live. When it, ahh, forgot to deploy the satellites before hitting the ground we all looked at each other and had looks of relief. Sure enough, Russia took the hit for G* being 6 months late, when in fact nothing from software to the antennas to the phones were ready yet.

      I still think they picked a known faulty booster to ensure the finger of doom pointed away from "the good guys".

    • Re:I'm a programmer in BigDig... (Score:4, Funny)

      by poot_rootbeer ( 188613 ) on Monday September 30, 2002 @04:22PM (#4362346)
      The problem is not the programmers. Its the **** software we were given to work with.

      Oh come on, four-star software sounds pretty good to me. You're scoring it on a five-star scale, right?
    • time has to be spent on fixing the requirments that could better be spend on coding

      If time would better be spent on coding, shouldn't you just code to the requirements you're given?
      (grinning, ducking, and running)

      Clever sig
    • Further invesitgation into software delays in Boston's Big Dig project traced the source of the problem to an internet technical news site, Slashdot.org.

      A survey of the projects network logs showed that queries to the Slashdot website occured at an average interval of 37 seconds, or 3 minutes and 5 seconds per user assigned to the project.

      Project spokesmen indicated that a planned installation of software to curb employee access to the website has been delayed due to lack of available programmers to do the installation.
  • Does the Build One To Throw Away principal apply to projects like this?
    • Apparently it does.

      The original central artery was built as an elevated roadway which divides the city, looks horrible, and sucks to drive on.

      The big dig *is* v2.0. The complexity of this project is mostly due to the fact that it is being built on and around the existing patchwork (v 1.99.99 ?)

  • I guess everyone figured that the software was working fine because the Big Dig web pages all said "Under Construction."
  • If you're not familiar with what the Boston Big Dig is, you can visit:

    http://www.boston.com/beyond_bigdig/ [boston.com] (Warning: Flash) for extensive information

    or the 'official' web site at:

    http://www.bigdig.com/ [bigdig.com] for more information
  • Maybe the Big Dig is delayed because the workers were going out to bars on their lunch breaks and getting tanked. Fox News ran a story (can't find it online) on it about a year ago. The constructions guys were having like 8 or 9 beers and then going back to work. Lovely

    psxndc

  • Who cares that the project is already drastically overbudget and behind schedule? Does it really matter that there is evidence of money being skimmed off the top? Has anyone noticed that some of the subcontractors for the project have since gone out of business?

    Nah. Just blame the computer geeks.
    • Oh yeah, not to mention we've been given the most ridiculously obsolete software that we've had to adapt to this project... and the requirements change every few minutes, usually to something completely illogical...
  • The IPCS work "controls the critical path to roadway openings," the Deloitte auditors wrote. "There is virtually no history available to determine whether the compressed [system and software] testing period that the Project hopes to achieve can in fact actually be achieved."

    "Compressed testing period" means they're behind schedule, and they're going to cut corners actually testing their stuff. Bad bad bad.

    I've never heard of a "compressed" schedule actually working. It usually means that the programmers submitted a schedule detailing how long things would take, and management turned around and rewrote the schedule to hit a specific target date. It means the schedule is a fantasy made up to satisfy some PHB.

  • But I didn't know the hole was in Boston.

  • Big Mess (Score:2, Insightful)

    by honkey ( 593373 )
    I live in MA. I use to commute through that mess called downtown Boston (by car a number of years, and by train for many years). Imagine what could have been accomplished if the billions (or less) was invested in a well planned and efficient commuter train system. The subway is a piece of junk. You need a freakin' umbrella UNDERGROUND during a rainstorm. I wonder when the ceiling is going to collapse. Most stations are a total eyesore. DC's subway system is a dream in comparison. Ever try the commuter rail system? The thing runs infrequently at best, and is packed to the teeth. Just imagine.. a train with every seat full, and passengers standing in the isles like sardines. Its fun, especially when the guy you are sitting next to stinks to high heaven.

    I was in Japan a couple of times over the past few years. Now.. thats a well oiled commuter system. Their trains are clean, efficient, and more environmentally friendly than these loud diesel spewing smoke machine Amtrak monsters they use. Most of all, the trains are FAST and ON TIME. Their schedules are like clockwork, no and's or's or butt's. If it says it'll be there every 3 minutes.. a train is there every 3 minutes. Boston's train sytem sucks so bad, they had to put in a refund policy. If your train is 20.. yes thats TWENTY minutes late, you'll get your one way fare refuned. Whee. So generous.Did I mention? I was chronically late at least twice a month due to a broken down commuter train. That includes the other some thousands of other commuters that were delayed too. Every summer.. get a nice hot day, BLAM. Dead train. Ever sit in a train for 1 hour with no air condidioning? It gets up to like 100 degrees+. That consistently happens.

    Now.. by the time they finish the Big Dig, the sprawl growing outside of the city will proportionately increase automobile traffic. By the time they are done, they'll need to expand once again. So when are we suppose to see any benefit?

    OK.. one good thing. My company moved away from the city. About 1 hour west. I now live in the sticks and have a nice commute. The day I moved was the happiest day of my life. :)

    Oh by the way.. my father worked for the MBTA for a number of years.. and my wife's cousin works for the rail lines in Japan around Kobe/Osaka. Ever hear of a train that senses the number of passengers onboard, and automatically adjusts the airconditioning systems appropriately? Well.. they have it in Japan.

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