Google Sued over Page Ranking 596
OrangeHairMan writes "Google.com is being sued by SearchKing.com because Google "purposefully devalued his companies' and his customers' web sites, causing his business to suffer financially." There's a page on SearchKing.com's site too." Does anyone besides me find this hilarious? My favorite part is that the name of the site is "Search King".
IIRC, (Score:4, Informative)
Re:PlowKing? (Score:4, Informative)
Signed,
Simpsons Nerd
Re:Maybe I Am Missing the Point (Score:4, Informative)
It's a bit like Captain Midnight suing HBO. Very bizarre.
--
Evan
Re:Blackmailing Google? (Score:3, Informative)
PageRank (Score:2, Informative)
"Integrity
Google's complex, automated methods make human tampering with our results extremely difficult. And though we do run relevant ads above and next to our results, Google does not sell placement within the results themselves (i.e., no one can buy a higher PageRank). A Google search is an easy, honest and objective way to find high-quality websites with information relevant to your search. "
haha, no one can buy a higher page rank. Isn't this what they are doing in the long run? Sheesh, what a sore lus3r...
Time for the wayback machine (Score:3, Informative)
Wayback on SearchKing [archive.org]
Re:how rich is Google? (Score:4, Informative)
Yay. I'm gonna buy a pen. And a hat.
However, I don't think they are hurting right now. Take a look at all the business deals they have made in their timeline [google.com].
Re:Maybe I Am Missing the Point (Score:2, Informative)
SearchKing seems worthless as a search engine (Score:2, Informative)
And the rest are stolen (Score:5, Informative)
Google's index of my site:
MMDC Tokyo
Aug 29, 2002 - 11:43 PM, MMDC Tokyo, Time is an illusion.
Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams, Main Menu.
mmdc.net/ - 47k - Cached - Similar pages
SearchKing's:
MMDC Tokyo
Aug 29, 2002 - 11:43 PM, MMDC Tokyo, Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams, Main Menu.
What are the odds that they both crawled my site at exactly the same minute on the same day?
These clowns are pathetic.
Cheers,
Jim
A little background on searchking's owner (Score:4, Informative)
From Salon's [salon.com] Aug 2002 article Meet Mr. Anti-Google [salon.com]:
From this Sept 5 2002 story Engine Trouble [guardian.co.uk] in the Guardian [guardian.co.uk]:
Re:Too Easy (Score:2, Informative)
Context is fun (Score:3, Informative)
You may find that the most common use of 'arbitrary' is;
Re:Too Easy (Score:3, Informative)
Not strictly true, Google says about 1570 sites link [google.com] to searchking.com. Although most of those are probably either his affiliates or stories about the lawsuit.
google is #3 in a Search King search, SK #4 haha (Score:3, Informative)
calclicks and magiccity...yeah I've heard of them before. But most interesting is that Search King lists themselves as #4...
so whatever..
here's the link
http://www.searchking.com/servlet/SearchKin
Re:Google becoming a monopoly? This may be legit s (Score:2, Informative)
It's a fine point, but it's more than just semantics.
Antitrust law deals with proving that a given entity used their monopoly to crush competitors, not to prove that the monopoly exists in the first place. That's almost always a fait acompli.
Re:Too Easy (Score:5, Informative)
"As a matter of interest, are Google under any legal obligation to provide an 'fair' search?"
Probably not. As a matter of fact, according to Google's own Terms of Service [google.com]:
"You may not use the Google Search Services to sell a product or service, or to increase traffic to your Web site for commercial reasons, such as advertising sales."
Re:Too Easy (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Google has a monopoly (Score:2, Informative)
Yeah, and KFC has a 'monopoly' on its "Original Recipe" with "11 herbs and spices." And Coke has a 'monopoly' on the particular formulas used to make Coke Classic and Diet Coke. So what? It's called trade secret , and it's an accepted, established part of doing business.
Where the rules change, as several other people have pointed out, is when your business is ruled to be a monopoly. Then you fall under regulation so that you cannot use your trade secrets to exert undue influence. It's basically modern capitalism's way of saying "You won this market, you've got the biggest pile. Now play nice with the little guys."
Unfair trade practices don't come into play here. Using one of my examples above, just because Popeye's Chicken can't use KFC's Original Recipe doesn't mean KFC's wronged them. And if KFC accepts competitor's coupons, still no problem. And if KFC launches an advertising campaign saying "we taste better than Popeye's," I'm pretty sure you're still ok.
Unfair trade practices would be something like KFC making deals with poultry distributors so that Popeye's couldn't buy chicken at a decent price. Totally different kind of problem. For instance, Google would be guilty of unfair trade practices only if they went to SearchKing's ISP and exerted muscle on them to degrade SearchKing's connectivity, raise SearchKing's costs, or otherwise affect them. That's totally different than tweaking a private algorithm to cut out the freeloading and search-engine abuse.
--JoeTwo sides to every beef. (Score:4, Informative)
This isn't about the "PageRank algorithm". It's about Google manually assigning a page rank of zero ("the dreaded PR zero" as SK calls it) to punish SK for attempting to abuse the system. SK also claims that Google enforces an idea of "bad neighborhoods" by assigning PR 0 to anyone who links to a PR 0 page.
In other words, Google appears to be using similar tactics to the spam blacklist SPEWS. Both entities:
I use both SPEWS and Google. I like the results. But I realize that concentrated power tends to be abused. And inability to see both sides of the story makes abuse easier.
Re:Google is a monopoly and should be watched! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Whine Back To Bob... (Score:4, Informative)
SearchKing, Inc.
13601 Quiet Cove
McLoud, OK 74851
US
405-386-4805
Fax:405-386-4806
Domain Name: SEARCHKING.COM
Administrative Contact:
Massa, Bob bobking@searchking.com
13601 Quiet Cove
McLoud, OK 74851
US
405-386-4805
Fax:405-386-4806
Let us drop [ "Bob Massa" ] into GOOGLE and see what we find...
Bob Massa the Bulk Spammer [larrysworld.com]
[ a bit down the webpage ]
Who's spamming, and does it work?
Bulk e-mail can be effective, but it's not always worth the trouble it can cause the sender. Bob Massa, owner of Magic-City.Net, an Oklahoma City, Okla., company that helps other organizations increase Web traffic by submitting their URLs to search engines, used to send out bulk e-mail to advertise his service. "It was more effective than anything else I've known," he says. "When I started, I was sending 30,000 messages a night and getting about a 1 percent response rate. There were times when I got as many as 200 orders in one day."
So why did Massa quit? Because "it's no longer worth it," he says. "Anti-spammers were sending me mail bombs, hacking my site and harassing me. One irate person sent me snail mail saying that he had mailed me a pregnant venomous spider and hoped it would bite someone and cause serious injury or death."
Calvin Fuller, a Burlingame, Calif.-based entrepreneur, has had similar experiences. Fuller has been involved with several Internet businesses and is developing an online and print magazine called Bikini Models, which he describes as a "PG-rated publication that includes pictures of bikini-clad models."
During the past couple of years, Fuller has used spam extensively but has backed off lately for a number of reasons, including the reactions he got from some recipients. "For every person who is excited about what I'm promoting, I'll hear from a lot more people who take the same amount of time to say how they are annoyed."
Fuller is also having trouble finding ISPs that will let him send bulk e-mail. "Most of the major providers of bulk e-mail-friendly accounts have shut down because other ISPs will block their incoming traffic."
Massa's and Fuller's tales of the treatment they received from anti-spammers were echoed by almost everyone I interviewed who had used spam to market products and services. Onsale Inc., a Menlo Park, Calif.-based public company that holds Web auctions, experimented with bulk e-mail but soon dropped it, according to Michelle Pettigrew, vice president of business development. Onsale used software to crawl the EBay Inc. auction site to pick up about 20,000 names and e-mail addresses.
Although Onsale received a significant number of positive inquiries as a result of its mailings, the company also got a lot of negative comment from EBay, Pettigrew says. In general, the potential for backlash is too great. "There are," Pettigrew adds, "ways to reach those customers through other means--such as banner ads--that are nontoxic."
The reaction against spam has been so strong that even people who use subscription-based lists sometimes get angry letters. I know because I'm one of them. I operate a free mailing list for people interested in following the articles I post to my Web site, www. larrysworld.com. The only way to get on the mailing list is to subscribe, but I've still received a number of angry letters from people who apparently forgot they had subscribed. For a while, a temporary glitch in my software failed to remove people who had asked to be deleted, resulting in several letters threatening legal action or requesting that ISPs block all mail from my account. Most people graciously accepted my apology, but a few remained angry.
[ more on the web page ]
A pic of Bob Massa [i-cop.org]
Bob also owns Searchking, Inc., a unique concept in search engine services which has been online since 1997 and is continuing to grow through a strategy of providing hosted search service software to the public. In a little over one year Searchking has become the largest "portal" host in the world with over 1,000 online portals on it's servers.
Yeah, I can see him as a large "portal" (www.goatse.cx)
But we only need look at his personal webpage
http://www.bobmassa.com/ [bobmassa.com]
A bit of truth even from Bob Massa's lips [buzzle.com]
As the engine has become celebrated for taking users directly to the information they want, though, a question has emerged in the minds of internet entrepreneurs who are no longer the recipients of millions of easy dollars: could it be manipulated for much-needed profit? One of Google's advantages has always been its refusal to sell placements in its rankings to the highest bidder, but the PageRank system, some argue, has its loopholes. Because Google measures how many pages link to a site, what if you set up thousands of web pages solely for the purpose of linking to one commercial site?
Some have accused Bob Massa, proprietor of a "search optimisation" service called Searchking, of doing just that. "All I want is for webmasters with small sites to get rewarded fairly," he says. "This is a chance to see that those guys get visitors and put up good content. Google wants good content. I can't see any problem."
Re:Google's PageRanking algorythm (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, it's more complicated than that, but the DMCA has absolutely nothing to do with this.
Re:Two sides to every beef. (Score:4, Informative)
And Google explictly says they will remove people who try to manipulate their ranking system.
It's not a secret system at all. They explictly state they will do what they did if people do what he did.
Oh, and their algorythm isn't secret, it's just patented. You can go and look it up, I think it's on Google's site somewhere. Or you could just google for it. Plenty of other people license it, and if you do so, you can run a carbon copy of Google. (Of course, you need a lot of computers and a fast connection, and obviously if Google has manually assigned rankings you'll have to do it also.) This is actually how 'Search King' works, he writes pages that manipulate the (known) system of ranking by linking to each other, so Google has to manually delete them. I, personally, think that's a great thing for google to do.
And SPEWS isn't 'secret', either, BTW, it's just run secretly. How you get in SPEWS is well known, or at least well assumed...you send mail to their super secret spamtrap addresses. Now, it has no accountablity, but it's not using some voodoo to randomly pick people as spammers.
Re:Google is a monopoly and should be watched! (Score:3, Informative)
Hardly the "monopoly" you claim them to be.