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Internet Backbone DDOS "Largest Ever" 791

wontonenigma writes "It seems that yesterday the root servers of the internet were attacked in a massive Distributed DoS manner. I mean jeeze, only 4 or 5 out of 13 survived according to the WashPost. Check out the orignal Washington Post Article here."
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Internet Backbone DDOS "Largest Ever"

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  • Well there we go! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MattCohn.com ( 555899 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @07:45PM (#4508899)
    If the servers can withstand the attack without going compleatly down, I guess they know they did something right.

    Article:
    "Despite the scale of the attack, which lasted about an hour, Internet users worldwide were largely unaffected, experts said."

    All I can say is that if you think of this as a test, I'm happy it passed.

    (Insert joke about Beowulf cluster of DDOS attacks / the servers ability to withstand the slashdot effect.)
  • Why attack (Score:1, Interesting)

    by 0ddity ( 169788 ) <jam1000_77@yahoo.com> on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @07:46PM (#4508903)
    the servers themselves. I am not an expert but surely these servers connect to the net through some sort of router/hub whatever. The servers are made to handle a lot of traffic but what about the connecting hardware. If the routers were attacked directly wouldn't the DDOS attack still be succesful without touching or alerting the dns servers themselves.

    Also I doubt that the routers are setup to recognize any kind of attack as they are just relays between the net and the server. Possibly the attack could go on for quite some time before any one realized what was going on.

    As I said I am not an expert could some-one enlighten me?

  • by Indomitus ( 578 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @07:46PM (#4508905) Homepage Journal
    This attack has generally been considered "piddly and unintelligent" according to people who are actually in charge of running things on the net. Here's a good quote from the NANOG mailing list:

    "when uunet or at&t takes many customers out for many hours, it's not a problem
    when an attack happens that was generally not even perceived by the users, it's a major disaster
    i love the press"

    With something like the root nameservers, if it was an important attack, you would have noticed. I run an ISP and we had zero complaints, even from the Everquest whiners who complain at the drop of a hat about anything.
  • Re:13 servers (Score:2, Interesting)

    by grommit ( 97148 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @07:47PM (#4508917)
    I'm pretty sure they mean that UUNet handles about half of the net traffic in the world, not those two servers.
  • by Wee ( 17189 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @07:52PM (#4508951)
    ...but it needs saying: Patch your damn machines. Install a virus scanner if you run Windows and run a firewall on *any* machine hooked directly to the Net.

    I'd love to see a breakdown of what networks the attacks came from and what the OS distribution was... pie charts optional.

    -B

  • by kennylives ( 27274 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @07:52PM (#4508958) Journal
    FWIW, I did see massive problems. I had done a Google search for mountain bikes, and only 1 in 5 sites would resolve. I popped open a terminal window to cross-check some of the failing queries against a different nameserver, and nslookup/dig would hang or timeout on the ones that Mozilla had a problem with. Very annoying, to say the least.

    Twenty minutes later, though, everything seemed fine, and the sites that wouldn't resolve earlier finally did. I wondered if something... erm.. unusual was going on, and it looks like there was...

    As always, your mileage will undoubtedly vary...

  • by shut_up_man ( 450725 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @07:54PM (#4508979) Homepage
    Here in the UK I certainly felt it. I was running traces and pinging well-known sites, reconnecting and I *almost* called my ISP asking them what the hell was going on. Mail was coming in slowly, servers were appearing to fade in and out of existence... it sucked.

    Any other comparisons from around the world?
  • Re:oh my... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Dionysus ( 12737 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @07:55PM (#4508983) Homepage
    I doubt the root servers run on Windows.

    And *nix systems are infinitely more scriptable, so I think it's more likely those were used for the attack (if I remember correctly, unsecured Linux where used for the big DDOS attacks on Yahoo and Ebay etc some years ago).
  • Re:And...? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by m0i ( 192134 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:01PM (#4509035) Homepage
    Err, replying to myself.. Anyway, look at this [cymru.com]: ICMP filtered during the attack for some, and it doesn't look as bad as it sounds.
  • by Istealmymusic ( 573079 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:09PM (#4509091) Homepage Journal
    Quite often, in fact. I only visit a few sites daily (Slashdot, El Reg, and the rest) and my box caches the domain names, therefore I never touch DNS. Couple that with leaving my computer on 24/7, and I have effectively eliminated egress DNS traffic.
  • Re:And... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by nege ( 263655 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:09PM (#4509092) Journal
    doesnt have to be your own ISPs DNS servers though right? I have been using earthlink's for about 3 years though have not been a customer of theirs...
  • Re:And... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mcspock ( 252093 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:15PM (#4509140)
    Although that is technically correct, it's not a rational case. The internet, as it stands now, is the sum of the services and products available on the network. The physical network itself is useless without basic services like DNS. To add to this problem, a lot of pages embed hostnames in them, so even if you knew the IP address you wanted to reference, you still couldn't browse it.

    The network is the computer; The services are the network; therefore, the services are the computer :)
  • Punishment options. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by goombah99 ( 560566 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:23PM (#4509186)
    It seems to me that the computers that participated in the DOS should be punished. Yes I'm sure they were mostly victims of hackers. But tough luck. if your security sucks and you let someone use your machine for this you need to be taught a lesson so you will pay attention to security whether you do it yourself or pay someone else to do it

    Likewise the ISPs who carried these people should also be punished.

    one possible punishment is to have your IP blacklisted for a month. Or maybe just have your Domain Name removed from the top level DNS for a month.

    Sure that would suck, but punishment is supposed to suck.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:25PM (#4509200)
    I mean, if I were a terrorist and read this, I'd immediately start salivating and try to find out as much about Verisign as possible -- everything from employee car rentals and hotel rentals to phone calls, merchandise, shopping... id do everything in my power to find the 'undisclosed location'. Is this another weakness that hasn't truly been protected yet?

    Disclaimer, I work for VeriSign. This is a personal opinion, not company policy. The details of the disaster recovery scheme are of course confidential. However I can tell people that we did think about these issues during the design. We have always known that people might think the DNS was a single physical point of failure for the internet. That is why we designed it so that it is not.

    There are multiple locations. The 'A root' is NOT a single machine. There are actually multiple instances of the A root with multiple levels of hotswap capability.

    Incidentally it is no accident that the VeriSign root servers stayed up. They were designed to handle loads way beyond normal load. The ATLAS cluster is reported to handle 6 billion transactions a day with a capacity very substantially in excess of that.

    Even if all the A roots were physically destroyed the roots can be reconstructed at other locations. Basically all that is needed is a site with a very fast internet connection. In the case of a major terrorist attack AOL or UUNet or even an ARPAnet node could be comandered. The root could even be moved out of the country entirely, British Telecom is a VeriSign affiliate, there are also several other affiliates with nuclear hardened bunkers.

    Most Americans have only been thinking about terrorism since 9-11. VeriSign security was largely designed by people who thought about terrorism professionaly, unless of course they were in charge of securing nuclear warheads.

    All a terrorist could do is to kill a lot of people, there is absolutely no single point of failure. Even if the entire constellation is destroyed it would result in an outage of no more than a day given the resources that would become available in the aftermath.

  • Re:Well there we go! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Grit ( 18830 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:27PM (#4509211) Homepage

    The attackers were idiots. They used ICMP echo requests (easily filterable, since the DNS servers don't _have_ to answer those) and quit after an hour. More publicity stunt than actual attempt to damage, IMNSHO.

    I've been trying to publish a paper about exactly this (and how to redesign DNS to avoid the vulnerability) and I'm just pissed that they didn't tell me in advance so that I could do some measurements. :)

  • Re:And... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Istealmymusic ( 573079 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:30PM (#4509230) Homepage Journal
    Yes, IP is more important than DNS. But is Ethernet more important than TCP?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:30PM (#4509231)
    To equate, in a round about
    way, concern with terrorism with Genocide or
    Mc Carthyism is silly. Your style of thinking
    is perhaps more susceptible to some moral crime.
    BTW, I live in DC. I actually do think we need
    to suspend our concerns with "offending somebody"
    or "behaving unpolitically correct" and crack down.
    We must stand up to evil and if it means
    outraging an ACLU lawyer, then so be it.
    It's better to live in a free society that
    must occassionaly be brutal and unfair than to lapse into
    a tyranny. Witness the well meanging Russian,
    French and Iranian revolutions. The war
    against Terror has just begun.

    The question stands: Is it a coordinated
    terrorist attack?

  • by xant ( 99438 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:31PM (#4509235) Homepage
    piddly and unintelligent

    Fine, so the attack was unintelligent. What will happen when someone attacks MAJORLY and INTELLIGENTLY?

    This gets my panties in a knot. A piddly attack brought down 65% of the root name servers! A good attack would have brought them all down! That doesn't that worry you?
  • Re:I work for JPNIC (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mike Schiraldi ( 18296 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:35PM (#4509266) Homepage Journal
    HACZBY : FADABOI
    CORPZ : MVDOMIZN HELLO TO KOTARI ON UNDERNET


    Well, this shouldn't take the FBI long. A quick Google search shows that Undernet's Kotari owns the domain www.kotari.com, which he's recently taken down but still shows whois records..
  • by Istealmymusic ( 573079 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:46PM (#4509327) Homepage Journal
    Alright man, I got +! KARMA and +& REPLIES. Who'se !Smart now?
  • by billstewart ( 78916 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:46PM (#4509331) Journal
    The real question is "Why did it stop?" Did their ISPs isolate them? (Much easier if it's controlled by one site rather than thousands of zombies.) Did enough zombies get killed off to cut down the load to manageable levels? Or is the perp still out there?
  • Running NT and BIND? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Inoshiro ( 71693 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @08:48PM (#4509339) Homepage
    Why?

    It's really easy to setup a system which dumps your SQL database out to a TinyDNS file [www.fefe.de]. TinyDNS [cr.yp.to] is provably secure software. I would expect that you would use it on the root servers, since it's designed to work at very high levels of output/uptime, and be attack resistant to the point of being attack proof.

    Say what you will about D. J. Bernstein [cr.yp.to], he does have a very capable DNS solution [cr.yp.to] available.
  • That be funnier if it didn't really happen...all the time. I work at a University and I get at least one call a day: "Is the server down?" There are many many servers on campus and it is (almost) never the server causing the problem. Users wank up their software configuration and then blame it on "the server" instead of their own ignorance (notice I didn't say stupidity, I said ignorance. many of these people are very intelligent...just in fields without a technical basis). Some basic user education on the technology that is an integral part of their jobs could go a long way.
  • by billstewart ( 78916 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @09:11PM (#4509478) Journal
    It's not just caching the pointers from . to .com or .zr, it's the caches of the 2LD names in .com that matter. (.org and .net are important, but .com is the really annoying failure. And country-code name service gets handled elsewhere, though taking down .co.uk might be a target also.)

    For the most common 2LD names, any major ISP will have cached the addresses for them, and won't need to hit the .com server until the typical 1-week or 24-hour cache timeout periods. If your nameserver is ns.bigisp.net, somebody there will have looked up google.com in the last 2 seconds, even though nobody at your ISP has looked up really-obscure-domain.com this week - but even that one may be in the cache because some spammer was out harvesting addresses. An obvious scaling/redundancy play for the root servers and for the major ISPs would be to have them cache full copies of the root server domains to keep down the load and reduce dependency. It's not really that much data - 10 million domains averaging 30 characters for name and IP addresses is only half a CD-ROM. An interesting alternative trick would be for the Tier 1 ISPs to have some back-door access to root-level servers for recursive querying.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @09:17PM (#4509503)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by wd123 ( 209211 ) <wd&arpa,com> on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @09:44PM (#4509646) Homepage
    Until your favorite website's IP address changes. Then you're screwed. I mean you can always "find" an IP address, you just route to it.

    At a hosting company for example, let's say they have two class Cs 1.2.3.0/24 and 4.5.6.0/24, now let's say the first one is used for webhosting and the second one is used for other company services. Okay, great, except they decide to restructure. Now www.knittingforoldladies.com used to be 1.2.3.4, and Granny bookmarked it and her browser oh-so-intelligently caches the IP. Except now the company restructures, and www.knittingforoldladies.com is now 4.5.6.7. 1.2.3.4 is now some other random customer website. Oh, crap, what happened to the knitting? Sure, the browser could check and note that the connection it has made does not respond for 'knittingforoldladies.com', but why even go that far? DNS is meant to provide access to a rapidly changeable hierarchial database of names which map to addresses. Doing bogus cacheing on the client end for any length of time is not sane.
  • Re:And... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by greenrd ( 47933 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @09:46PM (#4509654) Homepage
    There's not really a large risk in opening up your DNS to everyone,

    Um, there is if you run BIND, considering its appalling security record.

  • WD40 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by driehuis ( 138692 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @09:51PM (#4509675)
    Most good routers are designed to have the ability (if you enable it) to look inside of the packets

    Hmmm, last I looked at the Cisco feature set (or the like from Foundry and Nortel and what have you), it was a challenge to put in rules that
    a) didn't take out significant "good" traffic, and
    b) did take out significant "bad" traffic.

    I agree that rate limiting ICMP traffic is an appropriate answer, especially in the light of this particular attack, but I'm appalled by the number of illitarate dorks who copy snippets titled "how to block all ICMP" from a textbook into their firewall without the slightest understanding of why ICMP was implemented in the first place.

    I hate to think of what could happen if the 31334 hackers really start mixing attacks.

    I positively _love_ wd40, but I will not apply it to reduce the squeeking of my cars brakes. Too many people use the Internet equivalent of WD40 on their network brakes.
  • by msobkow ( 48369 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @09:56PM (#4509693) Homepage Journal

    Ordinary Internet users experienced no slowdowns or outages because of safeguards built into the Internet's architecture.

    Bullshit.

    I had obvious impacts trying to resolve DNS names during the time period of the attack (Delaware AT&T), despite having a caching name server on my local net, which queries AT&T's caching (primary?) servers.

    ISPs should be responsible for providing the DNS services to their customers in timely and reliable fashion, querying their backbone providers in turn. Direct queries of the root servers by subnets should be verboten and expressly blocked by the ISP firewalls. If you need to resolve an refresh, probe the ISP DNS and let their system handle the distribution. That way the root servers become repositories and key distribution points instead of failure points like yesterday.

    I'm sure someone will object that they have the "right" to use whatever ports they want and that they don't want to rely on the stability of their ISP's servers, but we're talking about the infrastructure people! We have no more "right" to hit the root directly than to clamp a feed from the power company mains to the house or splice into the cable TV/broadband wiring.

    If we don't protect and distribute infrastructure resources adequately, everyone is affected. And if your ISP has servers that are too unreliable for this type of filtered distribution to work, change providers!

  • by saskboy ( 600063 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @09:59PM (#4509707) Homepage Journal
    In the world of Winblows users and Linux newbies, you don't have to have the most secure machine in the world, it just has to be more secure than 50% of the machines in the world.
    It is like the joke about 2 people running from a bear. You don't have to outrun the bear, you only have to outrun your friend.
    Why bother cracking an almost insecure machine, when you have thousands of completely insecure ones to do your bidding?
  • Re:And... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by marauder ( 30027 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @10:10PM (#4509767)
    I can tell that you only thought about that for a minute. If you'd given it three, maybe five minutes you'd realise that the root servers CANNOT change their IP addresses. They provide the translation of names into IP addresses. How do other servers know the IP addresses to contact them on? Take two minutes to think about it some more.

    For bonus marks, think about whether a DDoS attack on 13 servers with fixed IP addresses requires DNS resolution at all, let alone before every packet is sent.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @10:20PM (#4509816)
    Hey, it is decentralized: you can run your own root server any time you want.

    But DNS administrators vote with their hints files, and it just so happens that [a-m].root-servers.net are the most popular root servers around, probably even more popular than ever, considering they just weathered a concerted DDOS attack without most people even realizing that it was happening (can any of these "alternate root" folks claims such resiliency?)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @10:55PM (#4509968)
    With that self-righteous bigoted attitude, you can ONLY be an American.
  • by pixitha ( 589341 ) <.acidrain. .at. .pixitha.com.> on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @11:19PM (#4510098) Homepage
    I remember reading somewhere about ingress and egress filtering on outer routers. If the ISPs ad big providers would do this as many ppl have suggested (even the damn gov) wouldn't that solve most of the problems like this and prevent DDoS from happening as often? Is that how VeriSign was able to stay up during the attack? Just curious....
  • by billstewart ( 78916 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @11:24PM (#4510111) Journal
    The first time a given technique gets used, it may be sophisticated, but after that it's often just script kiddiez. Some attacks are pretty crude, just borrowing a few thousand 0wned machines and slashdotting a victim, but some DOS attacks really do use some insight and then use the distributed attack as a lever, or as a way to hide the source of the attack. The clever attacks look for the critical resources on the target machine and tie those up. Sometimes that's something like the TCP SYN attacks which create half-open sessions to clog tables, but those can be easier to block, and they often depend on forged source addresses, which can be traced by a persistent ISP. Other attacks look more like brute force - find the asymmetrically resource-intensive part of a real transaction (like doing CPU-burning digital signatures, or downloading a really big file or causing some thrashy database lookup) and flooding that with lots of real transactions from your zombies, which is harder to block without also blocking real transactions from real users. In some cases, the crude attacks also work well because the fix requires applications programming so it's not something your ISP or router can just block for you.

    But, yeah, some of the attacks aren't much different than using a loudspeaker to announce "Free Beer at Victim.com"

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @11:25PM (#4510116)
    http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/newsflash.htm l
  • by DNS Root ( 255548 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2002 @11:32PM (#4510149)
    Firstly, if you use one of the 13 legacy root servers, you may have noticed a problem. Chances are you didn't. Plus, if you use another root system (ORSC, OpenNIC, etc.), or you cache the glue for all the TLDs in your DNS servers, then you would not have noticed a thing.

    Secondly, Rob Thomas has made an excellent template for securing BIND against all sorts of "stupid user tricks" which can be found here:

    http://www.cymru.com/Documents/secure-bind-templat e.html [cymru.com]

    Thirdly, quoting Louis Touton saying "We're not aware of any users that were in any way affected." was a serious mistake. ICANN haven't taken any notice of internet users up until now, so why should they start now?

    The article went on to say "VeriSign expects that these sort of attacks will happen and VeriSign was prepared," company spokesman Brian O'Shaughnessy said. If you want a likely suspect, try this one - brought to you, of course, by Verisign:

    http://www.arabtrust.com/training/courses/hacking/ index.html [arabtrust.com]

  • by irishkev ( 457679 ) on Wednesday October 23, 2002 @12:21AM (#4510390) Homepage
    I just posted this to my site. Please let me know if you have anything to add!
    DDOS Attack on Root DNS Systems Called Largest Ever :. [washingtonpost.com]

    Those of you who actually took the time to read my essay, "Cyberwar: How Terrorists Could Defeat the U.S., and Why They Won't [cryptogon.com]," (requires Acrobat 5 [adobe.com], not 4.) might get chill running up your backs when you read this. I'm still sticking to my original thesis, however: The Internet won't be brought down by terrorists because corporations and governments need it, and the terrorists serve the interests of corporations and governments. Regardless, I hope this DNS attack isn't a prelude to a bigger operation. Note how they say that it just ran for an hour and then stopped! Note this story [cryptogon.com], which detailed the creation of attack zombies with P2P capabilities, allowing them to be targetted at will. Also note that a top infrastructure protection analyst was just killed by the Maryland area sniper [cryptogon.com]! And within a couple of days we see the largest DDOS attack on root DNS systems ever!? (Long Pause) Keep a sharp eye out for weirdness, folks, something BIG might be coming down:

    Here's what I wrote back on September 14, 2002:

    Maybe the terrorists start taking out some or all of the thirteen root domain name server systems (I think there are still 13) or interrupting communications to those root servers [today's DDOS incident]. (Thankfully, a couple of these systems are located in places that have people with guns guarding them.) These root servers are used by thousands of other lower level domain name systems and receive about 300 million requests per day.

    Domain name systems are used to translate human readable URLs, like www.cryptogon.com into machine usable IP addresses like 209.115.132.59. There is much concern about the root DNS systems. Many articles on this topic are easily accessible. Much of the concern, however, is focused on hackers DOSsing the root servers. Again, this misses the point.

    What is the physical security like at the non-military root DNS facilities?

    I've driven by one of the buildings hundreds of times because I used to live near it. It looks just like any other small office building. How long would this place hold up against a few armed terrorists who were willing to die TO BRING DOWN A ROOT DNS NODE? Think about it. The same goes for the data centers mentioned previously. Surely these places should have armed security. But even if they did, are they prepared to stop terrorists who have no intention of ever getting out alive?

    Here's what just happened:

    The heart of the Internet sustained its largest and most sophisticated attack ever, starting late Monday, according to officials at key online backbone organizations.

    Around 5:00 p.m. EDT on Monday, a "distributed denial of service" (DDOS) attack struck the 13 "root servers" that provide the primary roadmap for almost all Internet communications. Despite the scale of the attack, which lasted about an hour, Internet users worldwide were largely unaffected, experts said.

    FBI officials would not speculate on who might have planned or carried out the attack.

    David Wray, a spokesman for the FBI's National Infrastructure Protection Center (NIPC), said the bureau is "aware of the reports and looking into it."

    DDOS attacks overwhelm networks with an onslaught of data until they cannot be used. According to security experts, the incident probably was the result of multiple attacks, in which attackers concentrate the power of many computers against a single network to prevent it from operating.

    "This was the largest and most complex DDOS attack ever against the root server system," said a source at one of the organizations responsible for operating the root servers.

  • by S_hane ( 86976 ) on Wednesday October 23, 2002 @12:32AM (#4510420)

    You should really take a look at recent proof efforts before mouthing off like this.

    If I may point you to two examples:

    Another point (and this is an important one): personal experiences don't generalise

    • -Shane
  • by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Wednesday October 23, 2002 @02:15AM (#4510697) Journal
    You want full functionality?

    Yes, I do. The same peer-to-peer functionality that hosts on the Internet have had forever. I got my fill of "Internet access", but not being an Internet peer when everyone was selling dialup shell accounts but not PPP.

    Sign off with your ISP for the appropriate connection service.

    So *I* should pay *more* for them to do *less* work?

    That's as bad as the pay-extra-if-you-don't-want-your-number-listed phone company procedure.

    If you pay for a small business link, you get the higher access level, and also take responsibility for the maintenance and security of your node.

    I *already* take responsibility for the maintenance and security of the node. I don't need to pay any more money to take said responsibility.

    You get hacked, you participate in DDoS attacks, you sould be financially responsible.

    There's no legal difference between a business and a home account from a financial responsibility point of view. What are you talking about?

    If you really know your stuff to use the extra functionality, you should have no issue with taking responsibility for the risks incurred.

    I *don't* have an issue with that. I just don't want to pay inflated business-class prices for standard peer-to-peer access.

    Don't want to pay more?

    Not particularly, no.

    Don't want to be responsible?

    Well, I'd kind of prefer to not be responsible ( :-) ), but I'll certainly accept it.

    Don't get the access.

    Conclusion does not follow.

    There are [sic] no such thing as "rights" when your activities impact others.

    You seem to have misquoted me. I did not use the word "rights" anywhere in my original post, or claim that I had any such rights (legal or ethical) whatsoever. I did say that it was *annoying* to me.

    If you aren't willing to stand up and be responsible for your traffic

    Where, where, did you get the impression that I said this at all?

    If the internet is truly as critical to business as we all hope it to be, it only stands to reason that people are going to have to get "licenses" to run full service nodes and subnets.

    That has no bearing whatsoever on my argument. I also don't think that the potentially critical relationship to business can be said to imply that one needs a license. Electricity is quite critical to US industry (hell, it's physically dangerous), yet one doesn't need a license to utilize it.

    You don't get to drive without a license to demonstrate that you at least have the education and skills to do so safely -- why would you expect to do otherwise on the 'net?

    Still has no bearing on my argument.

    Furthermore, I'd like to point out again that screwing up while driving can easily end up with many people dead. Even with the license system, cars are the leading cause of death of teens and young adults. I don't think you can compare that at all to the Internet, where maybe someone gets a Code Red infection. The Internet is important, but not knowing what you're doing on the Internet is wildly different (at least currently) from being an active threat to the lives of others.
  • by osolemirnix ( 107029 ) on Wednesday October 23, 2002 @03:43AM (#4510989) Homepage Journal
    ...domain look-ups are cached at the ISP level. I'm not suprised most Internet users were not affected...

    Exactly. Unfortunately there is not much info in the article, but if you read between the lines, you get:
    - the attack only lasted some hours (<6 I assume)
    - if it would have lasted longer, users would have experienced problems
    - 4 out of 5 root servers remained running (probably meaning they didn't crash but they still were severely congested)

    This means that the only reason the internet at large did not experience serious problems is the fact that
    1. DNS servers use query forwarding and caching extensively and
    2. the attack lasted shorter than most cache timeouts

    This leaves us with the question why it only lasted as short as it did? Did the attacker just try to make a point? And what will they do against it in the long run (if currently there isn't really much they can do at all)?

  • Re:And... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Kiwi ( 5214 ) on Wednesday October 23, 2002 @03:51AM (#4511007) Homepage Journal
    The reason my DNS server [maradns.org] does not have this is because this is best done at the networking level; in other words, setting up a firewall to not allow connections to the DNS server.

    What my DNS server does is mandate an ACL (list of IPs allowed to make recursive queries; this can be set to "all hosts on the internet" if desired) if recursion (talking to other DNS servers) is enabled. Recursion takes a lot more work to do than authoritative requests; it is best to limit access to this.

    Unlike Dan, I feel that a DNS server should be both recursive and authoritative because it allows one to customize the resolution of certain hostnames. The idea is similiar to /etc/hosts, but also works with applications which ignore /etc/hosts and directly perform DNS queries. For example, I was able to continue to connect to macslash.com [slashdot.org] when a squatter bought the domain and changed its official ip; I simply set up a zone for macslash.com, and made MaraDNS both recursive and authoritative.

    SMTP servers have IP restrictions at the application layer because this gives people some idea why they can't send email to a given host. A firewall restriction gives a vague "connection timed out" message in the bounce email message; application-level filtering allows the bounce message to say something like "You're from a known Spam-friendly ISP; go away".

    - Sam

  • by gurutc ( 613652 ) on Wednesday October 23, 2002 @10:08AM (#4512244)
    In spite of the responses by UUNet and others that sounded like claims that they gained control internally and ended the attack, chances are the attackers stopped it intentionally after they themselves detected tracking attempts by their victims.

    UUNet/MCI has known that its network has hidden vulnerabilities since July of this year when I contacted them about similar symptoms on their customers' networks, and that there was a fix. The US House and Senate Armed Services Committees were contacted over a month ago about this issue in light of the obvious national security implications. MCI's Legal Department knew, in their words, 'that their network had these problems' and that it was a matter of time before this happened but so far have refused to negotiate for my help to show them how to fix their net's probs claiming they were working on it 'internally.'

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