Tivo and SonicBlue Settle Dispute 194
Shippy writes "According to this article at the Stereophile Guide to Home Theatre, Tivo and SonicBlue have
decided to dismiss all patent-infringement claims 'without prejudice' and instead focus their energies on energizing the DVR market. 'We believe our energies are better spent expanding the market for DVRs rather than fighting each other,' the former adversaries said in a joint statement. The article also discusses their plans for marketing and also how they plan to respond to criticisms that the DVR market is doomed."
oh. my. god. (Score:4, Funny)
prepare for meltdown in 3.....2....1....
Re:oh. my. god. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:oh. my. god. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
without prejudice (Score:4, Insightful)
IANAL
but if I read this right, this means that if they feel like suing each other over this in the future because they have a falling out, they are completely free to call in the lawyers and have at it.
Sort of like two mafioso movie types, each with a shot gun at the throat of the other. Backing off might be a smart move.
Re:without prejudice (Score:2, Insightful)
You are mistaken (Score:2)
A case dismissed with prejudice may not be renewed, permitting an absolute defense of claim or issue preclusion (res judicata and collateral estoppel). A case dismissed without prejudice may be renewed without permitting a prior adjudication defense, subject to statutes of limitation and other time bars that may get in the way.
Moreover, the voluntary dismissal might give rise to an inference that none of the alleged inferences create irreparable harm (otherwise how could they have dismissed?), possibly precluding certain forms of injunctive relief.
Re:without prejudice (Score:2)
Don't confuse that with multiple charges brought from the same act.
The more proper term is that in the US and UK you can not be tried for the same *offence* twice. It does not preclude the state from bringing charges of burglary later after they failed to convict you on a murder or discharging a firearm or assault charge in a bank, all stemming from the same bank robbery.
Re:without prejudice (Score:2)
As a Replay owner... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:As a Replay owner... (Score:5, Insightful)
When I bought my ReplayTV, my friends were all telling me "You should have gotten a Tivo. Tivo will win." Neither will "win". They'll both do just fine for as long as they can. I happened to like the Replay user interface better, so I got it.
In this case, since the whole DVR industry is under fire from the MPAA, and other like-minded nimrods, its a good idea for them to not fight with each other. I mean, what good will it do them to bankrupt the other on some patent if the whole industry gets shut down in the meantime.
Re:As a Replay owner... (Score:2)
I have a TiVo SA, but I'm thinking of selling it and getting two of the new Replays for upstairs and downstairs. I really like the ability to stream shows from one unit to another within the house, something TiVo is rumored to be working on, but is dragging its feet on forever. Because of this ability, there seems to also be software out there that allows you to extract shows from a unit over the LAN without having to open it up and hack it. Incidentally, if anyone knows, how many ReplayTV units can cooperate on sharing shows with each other? Just two, or can you browse any number of units?
Analogy (Score:4, Funny)
The defender gets up, dusts himself off and says, "You know, I think you're right. Maybe we should just let this go and concern ourselves more with the offence. K?"
Better Analogy (Score:2)
I don't know why you think they're on opposite teams. It's not like sales in one directly correlate in losses for the other.
Re:Better Analogy (Score:2)
Won't be long until they merge (Score:3, Insightful)
My personal thoughts are it's the monthly charge that keeps this market from going anywhere (it's why I won't buy). But none the less, these two companies are ultimately going to merge or end up playing so nice with each other they'll be borderline illegal in their cooperation. At that point, the MPAA and big media might just encourage the government to investigate them.
Or I could be entirely wrong
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:3, Informative)
i just came into some money and was thinking of buying one because of the no monthly fee, but then i saw that...back to VCR i suppose
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:2)
i'm not looking for another bill, just want one-time fee
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:2)
Is it just that the one-time fee is too high? That, I could understand; this isn't the world's cheapest toy and they do need to bring the price down before they'll get true mass-market acceptance.
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:2)
which is why i dislike laser printers
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:2)
I don't even know where to start. You'd rather pay more per page to avoid the initail toner charge? My ink jet printer costs less than the cartridge. That's why it's in the box unused... Anyway, back on topic: It was alright that you would pay half the cost of the device just to use it as long as they folded that ammount into the overall price, but now that they've seperated it out, and the total price is still the same, it's unacceptable? No wonder so much stuff is $0.99, and we have a $0.009 at the end of the gas price. That stupid person marketing stuff really works.
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:2)
You do realize that even though the toner for the laser is more expensive, the cost-per-page is waaay lower, do you?
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:4, Insightful)
Honest question: Why? The subscription fee is for downloading the guide data only. Someone has to pay for the people, processing, systems, etc., to make that available. If it wasn't in a monthly subscription it would have to be factored into the purchase price of the boxes. This way seems to be a lot more accurate for the companies (Pay Per View), and more fair to the consumer (No $1,000 boxes to cover rapid changes in usage).
Don't get me wrong, I'm a DirecTiVO owner and love it. I don't want to pay for anything I don't have to, but this seems a valid service that costs money to make available, so requires a payment to use.
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:3, Interesting)
No it's not!
I wish people would stop saying this. Because it gives the naysayers a wedge -- the guide data is less than $3/mo in raw format (note - that particular guide data is nowhere close to the detail that the TiVo provides, but the naysayers ignore this).
It's also not just to provide the guide data - which is an ever-reducing cost. DirecTiVos capture their data from the sat feed, which already provides it. Stand alone (SA) TiVos now get much of their data from late-night TV "shows" on cable TV, which is a much cheaper distribution method than TiVo paying AOL for local dialup access or for 800 access.
So what, exactly, is the fee for then?
The software. You are leasing the software, plain and simple. That's why you get free software upgrades, which contain new features, on a fairly regular basis. I bought my TiVo with v1.2 of the software on it. Since that time it's been upgraded to 1.3, 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0. And it keeps getting better and more useful.
If you're against software leasing, fine. Don't buy one. If you want a PVR, but don't want the monthly fee or lifetime sub - go for it. Buy a TiVo and wipe the hard drive clean (or at least delete the proprietary bits). Because, frankly, you're not legally allowed to use the software that came on the drive (it requires a subscription), and if you think it has so little value then you can clearly build new software yourself.
Funny that nobody's done that yet.
Re:Won't be long until they merge (Score:2)
http://www.tivo.com/3.0.asp
http://www.replay.
Both of the lifetime licenses are locked to the box, and go with the box if you give it away, sell it, or move it, or if it dies*.
--Blair
* - so if they write software that makes you think your unit is dying and you have to buy another one, bingo, they just sold another license. But no, really, they just sold a competitor's unit. See?
Re:Create a SubCompany that provides Show data (Score:3, Informative)
Good! (Score:2, Insightful)
If they are going to survive, it should be based on thier systems individual merits, not who has the deepest pocket book and/or best lawyer.
PVR market isn't doomed... Tivo and SonicBlue are. (Score:4, Insightful)
Question on licensing of technology (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Question on licensing of technology (Score:4, Insightful)
The challenge for Tivo and Replay is to ensure that the TV and set top builders have to license their technology. It can't cost more than $1million to develop the code for a DVR. (Well it could, but it shouldn't.) If Tivo wants more than $1M/year return on their investment they have to legally prevent the TV builders from making and selling their own DVR software.
If Tivo has well written patents they can use litigation, if they have shaky patents they can use the treat of litigation. If they have worthless patents they are out of luck. Maybe the reason to cancel the lawsuit is to avoid a legal precedent on which patents are valid? Maybe each company has amassed a body of prior art on the other's patents? Just guessing.
A business model that forgets selfish patents... (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds like radio with pictures; it'll never fly.
Doomed? No Way! (Score:2, Insightful)
why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:2, Interesting)
I wont buy a PVR right now, due to the monthly payment required. I already have too many monthly payments in my life - I dont need one more. And, I don't want to pay UBER stupid prices for a 'lifetime' subscription.
I want a PVR that will act just like a VCR - programmable, by channel and time. Too much to ask? Is there something out there that will do what I want, that isn't a DIY soloution?
Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:4, Informative)
You can get either a Tivo or a Replay-Thingy w/o a recursive cost and w/o a lifetime subscription.
Re:stupid DVR question (Score:2, Informative)
I'm not sure it will work if you NEVER have the subscription, but you could always just pay for 1 month.
I went without an update/subcription for a month when my modem died.
Re:stupid DVR question (Score:2)
Last I heard, that's only true of the older units. The newer units say on the box that they require the service to operate, and the software enforces this policy by disabling even manual recording.
Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:2)
Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:2)
Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:2)
No there isn't. Neither TiVo nor Replay will fit your bill because they require activation/subscriptions of some kind.
A computer that will do this costs about $600, has crappy software, poor I/O, and does integrate into a home theater well (the Achille's heel of all HTPCs).
And you want a box to do that for how much and is integrated into your home theater?
Gee... wonder why TiVo and Replay have subscriptions... maybe the software is actually worth something. I know, that's tantamount to heresy on
There's a reason that nobody markets these crippled PVRs - they cost more and do less.
Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:2)
No, the hardware isn't the problem. That's victem to Moore's Law and keeps falling.
The software, however, is the problem. Taking an arbitrary data stream with audio and video, compressing it, and then being able to decompress it and do tricks (pause, FF, rewind, etc), isn't easy. At least not if you want to keep the A/V streams in synch. As I understand it this is exactly where the homebrew solutions still have issues. It's where TiVo spent most of their time tweaking.
The UI isn't easy either. Hell, just look at how many godawful VCR and DVD UIs there are out there as proof that it's easier to do a bad job than a mediocre one.
The box you want may become available someday, but I doubt it. You really are removing features (the ability to do searches based on title, actors, etc.), and asking a higher price (because you won't ever reclaim the software costs via subscription).
You may buy that. So may a few others. But I really doubt there's enough of a market for the $2000 device you're asking for.
The patents on this stuff are locked up for another 14 years BTW -- it's exactly what TiVo and Replay have patents on. So the software won't be cheap until after that point.
Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:2)
If you're going to do that you may as just use a VCR though.
Tivo can do that WITHOUT a monthly fee... (Score:2)
Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Paying $12.95 a month for 20 months (better known as 1 year 8 months) is $259. So, if you plan on having your Tivo longer than 20 months, the product lifetime option is better. (throw that whole thinking out the window with DirecTivo, since they're $4.95 a month, it'd take about 53 months... 4 years 5 months... to break even)
I had the same opinion (buy monthly, a new product is going to be forced on you every two years), and kept going monthly for my first 10 months. Then they had the monthly price increase, and let me buy at $199 lifetime. About 3 months ago I broke even, and am saving monry every month.
That, and I believe on their site they have the option to transfer a lifetime sub onto another box (does this work for transferring a sub from a series 1 standalone to a series 2 standalone?)
Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:2)
There is not any facility to transfer a subscription from one box to another.
The TiVo Product Lifetime Description [tivo.com] states (emphasis mine):
Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:2)
Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet.... (Score:2)
If it doesn't break, though, then theoretically the subscription will last longer than your lifetime.
Just think of the cost of the device as being higher.
Nigh-Impossible to Market (Score:5, Insightful)
-1) I love it and will never, ever give it up.
-2) It's nearly impossible to explain why I feel this way to anyone who doesn't own a PVR themselves.
IMO, #2 is the principal difficulty for SonicBlue and Tivo.
-Cal
Re:Nigh-Impossible to Market (Score:4, Interesting)
People don't know what they're missing. One of my kids (less than 5) had no idea we couldn't watch her shows whenever we wanted to on one of the other (non-Replay) TVs.
I never miss my favorite shows anymore.
The day my Replay dies is the day I go out and buy another. There's no way I can do without this.
Re:Nigh-Impossible to Market (Score:2)
It just makes p0rn better.
My favorite Tivo feature (Score:4, Interesting)
You never realize how handy it is until it's not there. Also, I don't know how many times I wished I had just that button on my stereo: "Where was that accident? Speed trap, etc" again?
Re:My favorite Tivo feature (Score:2, Insightful)
I really need a fast rewind/replay on my radio, my wife, my kids, my friends, my job....
Re:My favorite Tivo feature (Score:2, Insightful)
My favorite DirecTiVo feature? Dual tuners! You can switch back and forth between tuners by pressing down on the round navigation button at the top.
What's the big deal? When you change channels you lose your 30-minute buffer. However, if you switch tuners and then change channels you keep your buffer on the other channel (in other words, you have a 30-minute buffer for each tuner).
Say you want to watch something, but don't feel the need to record it, but want to surf during the commercials, but want to be able to rewind back if you switch back too late - simple, just switch tuners and surf.
I used this a lot with MTV as well. I'll watch a show on one tuner and have MTV on the other, then flip to MTV during a commercial and scan the 30 minute buffer for a good video (more and more rare these days, heh), and then switch tuners back to the show I'm watching after I'm done.
Oh, and Dual Tuners also rock for scheduling conflicts as you can record two shows at once (occurs 2-3 times a week for me).
Bad news about PVRs: I watch more TV than before. Partly becauase I didn't have DirecTV before as well (OTA barely gets 4 non-Spanish networks, missing CBS). However, I do find that for the most part I just watch my shows that are recorded and don't surf much (most of the time, heh, but now that I've found the dual tuner feature, I watch a bit more)...
Re:My favorite Tivo feature (Score:2)
Then can they do what Xerox did? (Score:2)
I wonder if the PVR folks can't have a free unit that is somehow metered, so that with a little bit of use people will soon realize that it's cheaper to buy the unit outright, and will do so.
Re:Nigh-Impossible to Market (Score:2)
I don't find it that hard. The bonus features are way cool, but at the end of the day, it comes down to this:
The TiVO marketers seem completely baffled by having the easiest job on the planet...
Here is why... (Score:5, Funny)
DVR market is doomed??? (Score:5, Interesting)
"...they plan to respond to criticisms that the DVR market is doomed."
Time Warner doesn't think it's doomed. They just launched [timewarneraustin.com] the Explorer 8000 Digital Video Recorder here in Austin, TX.That's the point. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:That's the point. (Score:2)
Although there's some question as to whether the provider boxes will have the software features of the DVRs or the flexibility.
I would imagine that standalone PVRs will be still here, just more expensive and with a much richer feature set.
Re:That's the point. (Score:2)
I think any solution that takes an already-compressed digital stream and records it straight to disk, like the DirecTivo, is better in concept than any standalone box, that has to take an analog signal and compress it on the fly.
It also helps when the manufacturers turn a blind eye to third party hacks that let you make the most of your fair use (bigger drives, NICs, etc), something that you can't do if you are renting the box from the cable or satellite provider.
However, if it wasn't for the direct digital stream, I think a lot of us would be happy enough with the new lines of tv cards and software for our computers. Especially once Snapstream and the other providers get good scheduler services going.
Re: DVR market is doomed??? (Score:2)
You're confusing the "value-added digital cable" market with the "standalone DVR" market. TiVo is in the latter, TimeWarner is in the former. Two different markets.
(Neither of which do I consider to be "doomed.")
Re:DVR market is doomed??? (Score:2)
interesting.... but.. (Score:4, Insightful)
sonic blue at least let's me set the unit's clock, while the TIVO requires that I let them do it.
until Tivo can be purchased and never allowed to dial home AND function properly as a Digital VCR (record at XX:XXpm for 1 hour call it foobar1) I and several others will never buy one.
Re:interesting.... but.. (Score:3, Insightful)
I dont own a tivo but am considering it. How do you mean it cant function as a digital vcr while other PVRs can?
siri
Re:interesting.... but.. (Score:2)
Ok so you would be happy if the cell company decided to remove the call history feature without telling you? or how about adding pop-up ad's to your screen that come up once in a while? If you are happy with thme modifying something you OWN without your consent or knowlege then go for it... myself... I dont want them to and the only way to keep a TIVO running like it did when it was purchased is to not let it ever talk to the mother company.
so, out of the box, no clock set so you cannot tell it to record at 10 pm as it doesnt know when 10 pm will roll around. plus you cant tell it to record any channels UNLESS you let it call home.
and if you let it call home and not subscribe... you get nice pop-up ad's all the time and many functions that should work are disabled. just look at the tivo forums for a list of funtions that do not require any of the guide data to function that are intentionally disabled to "convince" you to subscribe.
Re:interesting.... but.. (Score:4, Informative)
If I subscribed to a software update service and that's what they did, I would complain to the cell phone company. Are you trying to tell me that being able to subscribe to software updates is wrong, or that their being on by default with TiVo is wrong? Or are you simply ill informed and think tha you cannot turn off the so-called "dial home" feature on a TiVo?
I dont want them to and the only way to keep a TIVO running like it did when it was purchased is to not let it ever talk to the mother company.
Horse hockey. There are a million kits out there for networking support, and the commands required to back your OS out to the network are VERY well documented on a great many sites.
Personally, I don't bother. I vote with my customer support calls and my wallet. So far I've had to use neither, but the day may come when TiVo does something I'm unhappy with and don't want to keep. If they don't offer me an option to back out via customer service, I'll simply buy their competition's device.
so, out of the box, no clock set so you cannot tell it to record at 10 pm
This is also incorrect. You can log into the box and set the time with the "date" command just like any Linux box.
You can also let it make the call in to set the time and get schedule information once and then use it as a digital VCR from then on in. Of course, you won't have all of the most important attributes of a TiVo (like the guide information and TiVo's suggestions), but that's your call.
Let me repeat that for those in the cheap-seats: THAT'S YOUR CALL. You have a Linux-based DVR. Have fun.
and if you let it call home and not subscribe... you get nice pop-up ad's all the time and many functions that should work are disabled. just look at the tivo forums for a list of funtions that do not require any of the guide data to function that are intentionally disabled to "convince" you to subscribe.
I invite people to go have a look at these forums. You will find that the features that are disabled are basically all of the things that require a guide database.
This TiVo paranoia is just silly. Buy the device and use it like they intend. If you find you don't like it 30 days later, take it back to the shop and get your money back and buy a ReplayTV. USE YOUR WALLET TO VOTE.
Re:interesting.... but.. (Score:2)
That's an unfortunate. Name. I recommend expanding the first two initials, and using the "S" as your last name, or just "NLN". Good luck with that
"the general public cant do the Tivo Hacks."
I wasn't responding to the general public. Lest ye forget, I was posting to Slashdot. You know, "News for nerds..."
If I were talking to my mother in-law, I would simply say "buy it, follow the instructions, watch TV"
Re:interesting.... but.. (Score:2)
You certainly can use a Tivo as a simple "record channel W at time X, for Y hours, repeat weekly" digital VCR. The previous poster's complaint isn't that Tivo is completely incapable, the poster is complaining that unless you're subscribing the to Tivo service (around $15 a month), the Tivo doesn't really do anything. He wants to be able to purchase a Tivo but decline to use the service, thus losing some small functionality (primarily television listing information), but saving money. Unforunately, if you don't pay Tivo you also lose the ability to set your clock and the ability to use it like a simple digital VCR.
Maybe he's right, but I'm too addicted to my Tivo to care. The service gives me features like the ability to ask for "Get me all episodes of Futurama, whenever they air" and my Tivo will figure out when to record.
time setting (Score:2)
TiVO doomed... rubbish (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets look at the last financial statements for TiVo inc. Quarter to July 31, 2002.
Sales $23.9m, up about 6x. (Yep, c. 600%)
Gross profit $16.3m
Less R&D ($4.5m), Sales & Marketing ($5.6m & 3.4m), and General & Administrative ($1.1m).
Operating loss for the quarter, $1.1m, against $34.5m a year ago.
TiVo doomed? Do the math.
Re:TiVO doomed... rubbish (Score:2)
Re:interesting.... but.. (Score:4, Informative)
E-E-Tivo - If in Debug mode (see C-C-E-E 2 below), lets you set the TiVo's clock. Warning: setting this value may cause all of your Guide data to get "expired". If you want to play with this, keep in mind that TiVo may get mad at you for downloading several copies of your Guide data over the course of a couple of days. The best way to fix a messed up clock without reloading all the Guide data is to do the "Make a Test Call" option. The format of the time entry you use is the same as the format for the settime command. (?)
No, it's not ideal that they make you go through a backdoor to do it, but at least it's possible. Also, a test call might (or might not) work even if you weren't subscribed, but there's no real need. I agree that it should just be a menu option somewhere.
-Puk
Re:interesting.... but.. (Score:3, Interesting)
With all due respect, you don't "get" Tivo. That's ok, I didn't "get" it until I used it for a while. I received (won, actually) my Tivo a couple of years ago. I wasn't going to pay for the service; I was just going to use it as a digital VCR, as you describe.
That idea lasted about a week.
I would suggest that you and the "several others" who won't buy a Tivo without service talk to some people who do have the service and see what they think about. My guess is that they'll get a good laugh ar your suggestion that the service isn't worth it.
Manual Record (Score:3, Interesting)
If you never let it dial in (mine uses my local network (DSL) connectoin), then all you've got is a basic VCR with no program knowledge. I have heard of a hack where you can set up your own server for it to dial into for program guides, but I don't follow the Tivo hacking market much...
Re:interesting.... but.. (Score:2, Informative)
You can pop a modified NIC into a [Direc]TiVo and have it use your broadband to "call" into TiVo and not use a phone line. Still need a phone line if you do "impulse" PPV ordering to call DirecTV once a month (I do my ordering via the web so no phone needed).
You can hack NTP updates out of the call (I did, I find my local NTP server at home more reliable as it polls Stratum 2 clocks).
Manual record works just great if you want to use it as a "dumb vcr" and not have any scheduling info (if it's a Stand-Alone TiVo, but remember you get free scheduling from a DirecTiVo).
Best thing about DirecTiVo - No $12.95 TiVo subscription fee anymore. You just pay $4.95/receiver (same as any other DirecTV device). Actually, you get the second of the Dual Tuners in a DirecTiVo for free. Bad news about DirecTiVo - no Lifetime anymore, but at $250 it would take you 4.2 years to even break even vs the $4.95 fee. Odds are your PVR won't last that long.
Fighting? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Fighting? (Score:2)
There has never been, nor will there ever be, anything funnier than what you just wrote.
in other words (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Classic case of patent division... (Score:3, Insightful)
They're hardly "megacompanies" or megacorps.
Yes, this is precisely what they're going to do. Good for them. They thought of the idea first, implemented it (i.e. - they didn't just patent it and sit on their asses waiting for someone else to do it), and they expect to make a return on investment on it.
What's so horrible about that? It's called capitalism. I find it ironic that you'd call it communism.
Re:Classic case of patent division... (Score:2)
Oligopoly (Score:2)
A market condition in which sellers are so few that the actions of any one of them will materially affect price and have a measurable impact on competitors.
Now watch what happens when they band together...
What they are really trying to say... (Score:3, Funny)
The article also discusses their plans for marketing and also how they plan to respond to criticisms that the DVR market is doomed." 'With luck and enough of a spin on it, perhaps we can pull enough wool over people's eyes that they dont realize that the DVR market is already dead... we're just hoping there are enough sheep in the world for all the wool we'll need for that feat.'
At least, that's my translation of it...
- Rob
to hell with a Tivo. (Score:2, Offtopic)
HDD storage and then you can write it out to a DVD-R. why would you buy a Tivo other than being a few hundred cheaper.
Re:to hell with a Tivo. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:to hell with a Tivo. (Score:2)
1. Never feel the need to archive TV.
2. TiVo is tried and true.
3. TiVo has cool features not available in this panasonic device, such as TiVo recommended recordings, thumbs up/down ratings, cool user interface
4. Hackability (can you get WiFi going on your panasonic DVR? a webserver? etc...)
Cool idea.. but does it get TV Guide data? (Score:2)
"Lifetime" service fee... for some def of life (Score:2)
I'm not big on TV, but my spousal overunit is and is currently doing the Tivo-ReplayTV pre-purchase research, and apparently the "lifetime" service fee is for the "lifetime" of the unit you purchase. If you get a new box, even from the same provider, you get to pony up that fee again.
It's the fees that'll kill them. Good technology, not the right marketing strategy for this stage of the game. Make it cheap until you get a solid, self-sustaining user base.
Re:"Lifetime" service fee... for some def of life (Score:2)
Kudos to your wife for the research (I know you're the husband because no wife would ever refer to her hub as a "spousal overunit"). When is your "shootout" web page going up?
Re:"Lifetime" service fee... for some def of life (Score:2)
On the bright side, if you want to trade up it certainly increases the resale value of the unit.
Theoretically, yes, but I'm guessing that that is probably intentionally inconvenient to transfer. Just a guess, but...
Kudos to your wife for the research (I know you're the husband because no wife would ever refer to her hub as a "spousal overunit").
On Usenet and some mailing lists, the wife is always Spousal Overunit or SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed). I checked with my wife, and on female-oriented groups they use "DH." One of the meanings is "Dear Hubby." I understand there's another meaning but she won't tell me what it is...
When is your "shootout" web page going up?
I suspect it won't. While research is being diligently done, right now it's sort of a battle between "TiVO is cheaper, and my friend Scott has one" versus "Damnit, I didn't run Ethernet into the family room so that we could buy a box that uses a @$%^ing serial modem."
Re:"Lifetime" service fee... for some def of life (Score:2)
Yeah, I know what you mean. I've got ethernet in bedrooms and the dining room (currently my wife's office - with small kids the need for a formal dining room is lessened). Cable is dirt cheap if you buy it at Home Depot and add the plugs yourself (once you buy that $30 crimping tool)...
And isn't TiVO more "hackable"? A coworker is always telling me about the things he's added to his TiVO.
You got questions, we got answers... (Score:2)
For a Tivo with lifetime, you give the box to someone else. Then.. well.. you're done. Oh, you can call Tivo to tell them that the box is now owned by Bob Downthestreet, but you don't have to. The Tivo identifies itself on every connection by means of the unique serial number burned into a chip on the motherboard. The lifetime subscription is tied to that number.
I suspect it won't. While research is being diligently done, right now it's sort of a battle between "TiVO is cheaper, and my friend Scott has one" versus "Damnit, I didn't run Ethernet into the family room so that we could buy a box that uses a @$%^ing serial modem."
The Series 2 Tivo's can connect to an ethernet for their connectivity by means of a cheap $10 USB->Ethernet adapter. It's "unofficial" but it does indeed work. The main requirement is that your LAN has a DHCP server on it to hand the Tivo an address and a gateway, so that it can connect to the internet. Nearly all home router type boxes (like the Linksys, for example) do this job just fine. My Tivo calls home via my cable modem, for example.
Series 1 boxes have no USB connector, but ethernet cards can be purchased for them nonetheless, at www.9thtee.com.
Re:"Lifetime" service fee... for some def of life (Score:2)
Bottom line, the boxes cost around 299+250 to make. Pay it over time (monthly) or pay up all at once, its up to you.
Cost-plus economics work with the government. Not so much the market at large. If the price is unpalatable, other options include cutting costs and bringing in other revenue (e.g. advertisement, partnering, etc).
Me, personally, I think $550 is a bit high, and I think that a monthly of $10 would do a lot better than a monthly of $20-$35. You may remember certain other industries that started out with low monthly costs, who later recouped once they had a stronger market (how much do you pay for cable today, and how much did you pay in 1985? How much would you have been willing to pay in 1985?)
Just my opinion. You disagree; that's what opinions are for. I certainly hope that DVRs make it, and that I end up owning one... but it isn't a no-brainer.
A message from Canada (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Repeat (Score:2)
Re:The problem with standalone DVRs... (Score:2)
Re:The problem with standalone DVRs... (Score:2, Informative)
I complained to ReplayTV that my IR blaster didn't work with my cable box, and they tried to implement the IR command set for my cable box, but the implementation never worked right. So I eventually chucked the IR blaster cable.