War of Honor 193
| War of Honor | |
| author | David Weber |
| pages | 869 + CD-ROM |
| publisher | Baen Books |
| rating | 9 |
| reviewer | Brook Conner |
| ISBN | 0743435451 |
| summary | Essential for fans of Honor Harrington. Sometimes turgid and complex political sci-fi. CD-ROM worth the cover price by itself. |
War of Honor is the tenth full novel in David Weber's Honor Harrington series, and thirteenth book (there being three collections of stories set in the so-called "Honorverse"). For those of you that have read the earlier novels, this is more of the same, though Honor herself figures perhaps somewhat less prominently in it than in previous novels. It's got Weber's usual rich and detailed plot, along with Weber's occassionally turgid and expository writing.
One thing that makes this novel different from the others is that Weber has fully incorporated characters and plot lines from the short stories set in the "Honorverse" but penned by other authors. Earlier novels had made allusions to some of Weber's own short stories, but none had integrated another author's work to the extent that War of Honor does. Of course, this does nothing to simplify the plot or reduce the expository interludes (Weber includes enough explanation so that you can follow the plot without having read the prior short story). It does add to the flavor though, and helps keep Weber from simply retreading old ground.
Discussion of the plot, even aside from spoiler concerns, is well-nigh impossible. There's simply too much that happens. This isn't a book that could be a film - it's a mini-series, even without the prior nine novels. War of Honor is not a light and fluffy read. It's a good two hundred pages longer than the previous novel (Ashes of Victory) and doesn't have some of the breezy, happy passages of its predecessor. In fact, you might want to take a break halfway through - I did, with a complete novel in a much lighter vein (bad pun - it was an Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter novel). Suffice it to say that Weber knows how to write the next installment in a series: this one resolves enough threads to make it satisfying and opens enough new ones that readers will continue to scream for the next novel.
What Slashdotters are most familiar with, though, is the CD-ROM that's been discussed here before. And it's a nice one, to be sure. While the books on the CD themselves are available at Baen's Free Library, the CD contains more.
One of the most wonderful resources is the art gallery: the covers of the most recent editions of the Honor Harrington books as jpg images, all at 800x1200 pixel resolution or greater. Not scans of the covers but images of the original art, without the title graphics or anything else. I predict some very nice wallpapers coming soon to a site near you.
The CD-ROM also has other lovely tidbits, such as audio selections from several novels and MP3s of songs from the group Echo's Children. So even if you haven't caught this filk group at a sci-fi con, you still get their songs and lyrics based on events in the Harrington novels.
And all of this is on top of all the books on the CD-ROM. All ten Harrington novels, and yes, that includes War of Honor itself. All three collections of Harrington stories. And twenty five (not the previously-reported twenty two) other books, from the likes of David Drake, Eric Flint, Dave Freer, Mercedes Lackey, Keith Laumer, Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, John Ringo, and James H. Schmitz. No encryption. No copy protection. In several formats each, including HTML, Microsoft Reader, Mobipocket, Rocket, and RTF files.
Put it all together in one no-download place and the CD-ROM is arguably worth the price of the hardcover book all by itself. Certainly, no new release CD-ROM sold by itself is going to sell for much less than US$26 (the cost of the book).
I'm of course reminded of Tim O'Reilly's (and many others) numerous comments to the effect that obscurity is a bigger problem for publishers than piracy. Jim Baen evidently agrees. He's just put the full text of a brand new flagship property (another bad pun, I'm sorry) in the clear. The disk even says you can copy it. Stamped right on the disk: "This disk and its contents may be copied and shared but NOT sold." Even the copyright notice says "All commercial rights reserved." Not "All rights reserved."
Given the popularity of the Honor Harrington series over all, it's just possible that this novel will make the NY Times (free reg, blah blah :-) best sellers list. And if it did, with its entire text freely and legally available on the net, wouldn't that be an interesting place for publishing to be?
You can purchase War of Honor from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
Cheaper prices (Score:5, Informative)
Ahh, the joys of capitalism.
Re:Cheaper prices (Score:3, Insightful)
I am not trolling, I am seriously wondering.
Re:Cheaper prices (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cheaper prices (Score:5, Insightful)
We all complain about the power of the large corporations, but unless we put our $ where our mouth is were just making the problem worse, who cars if it costs an extra $5, I'm sure most of you can spare it
Re:Cheaper prices (Score:2)
Problems with WoH (Score:3, Interesting)
Not one of the better ones.
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:3, Interesting)
The thing I most liked about the Honor Harrington series is that altho' it is "space opera", Weber takes the time to do the orbital mechanics involved. Fighting a battle in space is a lot like playing chess: everyone involved has a perfect view of the board, and decisions often have to be made well in advance of their implications actually playing a part in the battle. You have to think, I'll accelerate now, because in 6 hrs, I might have to do something else. In the Honor Harrington books, no-one ever pulls a Star Trek-style technobabble solution out of their asses and no-one ever ignores an inconvenient law of physics. These things are merely crutches for weak writers, so respect to Weber for creating as much realism as possible within the genre.
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
I like how Weber can describe a battle in tiny detail, yet doesn't every time, unlike some authors of military fiction. He always describes the new aspects, how Honor yet again "surprises" her opponent, but doesn't discuss each individual hit, except in the first book where it's new.
And you're right, there's no technobabble. If something new is invented (and the books are over twenty years, technology does change) it's discussed and you get to see the navy play with it in simulators and such, where its capabilities are firmly nailed down, so that it can't be a magic widget when needed.
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2, Insightful)
In fact, if WoH is the first HH book you've noticed that the good guys are all really good and honourable and loyal and - occasionally - rapscallions, but nice fuzzy heart-of-gold rapscallions.. and the bad guys are power-hungry, greedy sons-o-thingames willing to climb a mountain of dead bodies to get to the top, or just plain namby-pamby liberal military-hating scumbags who are too stupid to understand political realities... (deep breath, deep breath).. where was I?
I'm a HH fan because the universe has a nice feel to it, Weber is a gifted author when it comes to describing space war, and of course big things happen on a grand scale. It's space opera.
His characters and dialogue really detract from it though. I've noticed between his HH series, and the Starfire books he co-authored with Steve White, a lot of the same characters appear - with different names.
It could be worse, Weber could be like Eddings (Score:2)
Re:It could be worse, Weber could be like Eddings (Score:2)
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
First off, prior to the last book, Robert Stanton Pierre was an amply adequate example of a bad guy you hated to like. You want a war-hating liberal? Try out Cathy Mogntaine, late Countess of the Tor.
Anyone who thinks David stereotypes his characters, or lines them all up as black or white/good or bad needs to reread the series. Even Janacek at least thought he was doing the right things...
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
The first few Honors were pretty good - even my anti-tech spouse liked them. Then the Clancy-babble got louder and louder. Even I couldn't finish the last one, and I used to like technothrillers.
sPh
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
That said, I'm still tempted to buy the new book just because of the CD. Even if there's nothing on it I care to read, it's still a damned wonderful concept.
(And when does the Bujold CD come out??!!!)
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2, Informative)
I've heard that her agent talked her out of electronic publishing, Baen-style, which is too bad.
Not so! Bujold is published electronically! (Score:2, Informative)
Dan Aris
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
Bit ironic considering Baen is her publisher!!
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
Who are you, Forrest J Ackerman? "Tho" and "thru" are still wrong, and yes, they may be shorter, but they still look stupid.
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
In fact, Honor (the character, not the concept) deeply respects many of the enemy commanders and were circumstances different, she'd be good friends with them.
I think partly that the view of the enemies as evil changes as Honor ages and gets a broader view of her own society.
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
And I think it was said at one point that conservative/liberal parties were more evil incompotents than would have been expected because they were the ones who were grabbing for power during the death of the old government. They were also the ones willing to bind together parties of conflicting interests just to hold power, where other people in their parties would have been willing to maintain the old multi-party structure even though it meant they didn't totally control it.
Seems fairly realistic. Not all politicians are nasty, but most who succeed are simply because they must sell out to do so.
But yes, these characters were the shallowest of the bunch. Even Saint-Just and crowd were doing good, as they saw it.
This is why book 11 will be quite neat. Neither government is of useless incompotents, both are likable and believe themselves to be in the right, and both navies are staffed by skilled people.
I liked the "bad" Manticorans for one main reason, they kept the "good guys" from being all pure and good, simply by virtue of their planet of birth. This actually gave some story value to Honor's political adventures that wouldn't have been there is everyone had agreed with her and/or been rational.
I did like the 1-7 books more than 8-10 though, except than in 8-10 the Peeps are getting more interesting.
Re:Problems with WoH (Score:2)
The problem with calling the main characters libertarians is that modern-day libertarians have many ideas that most people agree with such as "don't pass laws that are useless" and "don't tax me to pay for social programs that nobody wants, or that we could do cheaper" as well as a bunch of ideas that most people would see as somewhat wacky. If a character in a book ever proposes the more reasonable of these ideas, people often call them a libertarian (in a derogatory sense) without realizing that some of the libertarians platforms are reasonable and future societies very well might move in these directions without being a gun-toting anarchy.
What what ? (Score:1)
Who the hell is Honor Harrington ? No don't, I'm googling for it myself, it's just that I have never heard of him/her.
Re:What what ? (Score:5, Informative)
following that other authors have done anthology
pieces.
What I find most interesting is that the main
character is the one who gets hurt most often.
Every other main character has gotten through the
series without permanent injury, whereas Honor is
currently down one eye and one arm.
The rest of the characters, even the minor ones,
are generally well developed, with distinct
personalities. Tho, I may be biased there, as I
am one of the minor characters. (The look on
Mom's face when she read my name was priceless.)
All in all, a decent series, well worth the read.
Re:What what ? (Score:2)
I don't remember reading about Necro Puppy, the evil hexapuma.
Brief Plot Description (Score:2, Informative)
Basically, the main idea in this book is that the government is in the hands of inept politicians who go too far to try and take advantage of their recently won peace.
The two main manticore fleets survive because Honor was in charge of one, and had extra ships from Grayson (sent as a training exercise), and the other was reinforced by the Grayson home fleet right as the attack begins.
With that said, there's so much going on in the book, I've hardly spoiled anything.
Re:Brief Plot Description (Score:2)
Thanks for the summary, but I still haven't a clue what its about.
It it a Civil war thingy? Space epic? A Harry Potter ripoff?
Re:Brief Plot Description (Score:1)
Re:Brief Plot Description (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Brief Plot Description (Score:2)
Imagine if the British and Spanish empires had endured 'til the 23rd century and were fighting in starships instead of sailing ships, and you're close. Except the Spanish are a lot like the Soviet Empire, and no-one really has control of the Americas. Earth itself doesn't really feature. Honor herself starts out like Hornblower, then becomes like Nelson. In every book it's touch-and-go for a while, but eventually the Spanish get their asses handed to them on a plate, just like that time they sent an Armada over. Rule Britannia!
Re:Brief Plot Description (Score:2, Informative)
Actually, there was an interview with David Weber in the latest Sci-Fi book club [sfbc.com] newsletter and he says that this is a common misconception. The Peeps aren't the soviets.. they are actually based on the United States after centuries of deficit spending and welfare.
Who knew?
Re:Brief Plot Description (Score:2)
Of course, that's not a Soviet exclusive, and their financial system isn't (even in name) a socialism, but the USSR is the most recent, obivous, example of this kind of totalitarianism. I think it's actually supposed to be revolutionary France.
Agh! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Agh! (Score:2)
They also have other, new releases on sale too...
BWP
We just bought this... (Score:2)
Worst Book out of the Series (Score:1)
to the first space battle and it is tiny. The last
1/4 of the book is good, but I hate all the
politics. I read Weber for the space battles not
the politics!
Re:Worst Book out of the Series (Score:2)
Errr... Sidewalls? His sidewalls allow for an impeller field around the exposed area, but suffer from two problems:
1. If the two impeller wedges (top and bottom vs. sidea) intersected, they'd vaporize the ship.
2. An impeller wedge is completely solid. No weapons of any sort could be mounted since they couldn't escape the wedge. This would create an invulnerable ship that wouldn't be worth anything in combat. (A shield maybe?)
Re:Worst Book out of the Series (Score:2)
And I like how the technology is always well defined before use. Not the technobabble, he doesn't often explain how something works, unless the specifics matter as to how it will be used, but he always nails the uses down exactly so Honor's clever tactics are something that anyone could have done (and indeed, in one book she uses stolen enemy ships instead of her own navy's ships). This precisely defined technology means it comes across as clever, not some cheesy device to save a character once the emergency has gone on long enough, as Star Trek seems to do.
This is where a tablet pc would be nice (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:This is where a tablet pc would be nice (Score:2)
I use an iPaq to read ebooks (Score:3, Interesting)
Any color PDA is very nice. (Score:2)
What I've found is that the white background of the color PDA makes for very nice reading. And the Mobipocket reader even does a touch of smoothing. In all, it's pretty much like reading a story in a magazine, with text running about the width of a standard magazine column
Another thing is that I've found it comes in quite handy of late when the kids wanted me to stay in their rooms a bit as they go to sleep. Just bring it on in and read while their lights are off and the drop into slumberland.
Oh, and since buying the hardcover book, I'm now up to the 5th Harrington book on it.
Re:This is where a tablet pc would be nice (Score:2)
i find. palmtops are too crippled by their miniscule
storage. i love the toshiba portege 3980ct with its
11" XGA screen, weighing about what an average
harcover book weighs, but being readable in the dark.
The old porteges fold flat and feel like they are
carved from a single block of solid magnesium, they're
so tight.
now reading from a creaky 5 pound dell plastic
monstrosity so big that it bangs into things when
you walk with it in one hand, that won't fold out
flat would suck, i admit. but i won't pay for
a cf format 802.11b card that goes into a pda that won't
hold more than one book at a time and won't connect
to a cd-rom.
if you like tiny, you should check out some of the new sony's. personally, i want >=XGA in an 11 or
12" factor, and the discontinuted toshibas are
the only game in town, to my knowledge.
Re:This is where a tablet pc would be nice (Score:2)
Re:This is where a tablet pc would be nice (Score:2)
Re:This is where a tablet pc would be nice (Score:2)
I didn't think I'd really like reading on the screen, but it grows on you. It's faster, there's less page flipping (just tap space) and nothing to wear out or hold awkwardly to avoid bending the spine.
I'm going to read this way from now on, when I can. (I should borrow a palm pilot and try the reader on there...)
Re:This is where a tablet pc would be nice (Score:2)
Got the CD right here. In addition to HTML and RTF, the CD includes Microsoft Reader, Mobipocket (Palm/WinCE), and Rocket RCA REB1100 formats. At least one of those seems to be designed for use with handhelds. Anyone who'd care to fill me in on what the other two are, feel free. (I'm curious, but not curious enough to spend time googling)
Why wait? (Score:4, Insightful)
Personally, I'm baffled as to why anyone waits for a book they may want to come out in paperback. For something along the lines of a $25 hard cover book, the paperback version may be, at best, $15. You save a couple bucks but have to wait a long time until the initial hype and/or sales are done with before they start getting paperback versions out. I actually just go straight for the hard cover whenever I buy any book that is more than a hundred or so pages because it feels better when I'm reading it. There is some structure to the book, the pages don't get all messed up as easily, a good hard cover feels great to read by a fire or on some cold rainy day.
Re:Why wait? (Score:3, Insightful)
Hardbacks have more durable bindings, yes, but as a rule they're not printed on as good a quality paper as the better paperbacks (excepting Del Rey paperbacks, who use ink that smears if you look at it crosseyed). I know I have to be more careful to avoid tearing pages when I read a hardback.
As to other reasons to prefer paperbacks -- they're more portable; they're a better size for curling around; you don't need to use both hands, or a hand and your lap, to hang onto 'em.
YMMV, of course.
Econ 101 (Score:3, Informative)
1. Print the book in hardcover only. You will have 10,000 readers * $25/book = $250,000.
2. Print the book as a paperback. You will have 100,000 readers * $15/book = $1,500,000.
3. Print the book in both hardcover and paperback. You will have $250,000 from the hardcover sales, and 90,000 readers * 15/book = $1,350,000. Your total revenue is $1,600,000. You just made an extra hundred grand.
With price discrimination, each group of consumers is able to pay what they want, so the publisher can earn extra revenue by allowing consumers that are willing to pay a higher price to do so. Similar principles are at work in airfare pricing (first class and coach), coupon clipping, and discount cinemas/matinees.
Re:Why wait? (Score:2)
I also resent paying more for something I don't want. I'd actually prefer to buy the paperback for the same price as the hardcover and if they brought it out at a premium for the first year, I'd pay it instead of waiting, but not for an awkward version.
What I really want is paperback (pocketbook) sized hardcovers. Something sturdy enough to carry around and spread wide open without losing pages, yet small and light enough to carry and store easily. And without these lame dust-jackets...
Re:Why wait? (Score:2)
Personally, I'm baffled as to why anyone waits for a book they may want to come out in paperback.
Then you're either wealthy enough that you don't mind dropping $50-$100 per week on reading material, or you don't read very much. People who read hundreds of books every year tend to borrow lots of them from friends and libraries, buy paperbacks whenever possible and avoid hardcover titles unless the absolutely positively cannot wait -- because doing otherwise cuts too deeply into their book budget.
For something along the lines of a $25 hard cover book, the paperback version may be, at best, $15.
Huh? Try $7 or $8.
Re:Why wait? (Score:2)
We're talking about novels here, why would you buy them at a college bookstore?
Bathtubs, shelf space, lack of hurry (Score:3, Interesting)
Shelf space is another real advantage of paperback books for fiction - they take about half as much space as hardbacks or big paperback computer books. If you read a lot, this can be an important constraint, unless you also dispose of books after reading them.
Besides, how much of a hurry are you in? There are *lots* of books out there to read. For most science fiction, my usual tradeoff is used vs. new, though I have the advantage of living near bookstores with large collections of used science fiction. There are a few authors I'll buy new the minute they hit the store (Steven Brust, Neil Stephenson, and this gradually became the case for the Honor Harrington series, though not for Weber's other books), but I'm very seldom in enough of a hurry to read a specific book that I'll buy non-remaindered hardbacks - the three I see on my shelves are Steven Brust's "Dragon", Vinge's "A Deepness in the Sky", and of course Cryptonomicon (but as a Cypherpunk, that was an obvious must-buy.) The 25th century and the quasi-Middle-Ages can wait an extra six months.
Re:Why wait? (Score:2)
Actually, more like $6-$7.
For me, though, it's a simple question of economics. I buy a 300-page novel, I'll have it finished in two hours, maybe three hours with distractions (yes, my reading speed is that high). After that, unless the author is very good, it's several months before I can reread it and get the same enjoyment from it -- and I do read books over and over again, simply because if I bought enough books to keep me in new reading material, I'd go broke. If I have $30 to spend, I can spend it on one hardback and have two hours of entertainment, or spend it on four paperbacks and have eight hours of entertainment. And hardbacks take up more shelf space than paperback.
Right now, I have shelving in my living room that is six shelves high and 12' long filled with paperbacks two books deep -- with more in shelves downstairs and still more in boxes in the garage because I have no shelf space for them. Hardbacks would triple my shelving requirements. For books that I really enjoy, I will often pick up a hardback copy, because of the increased durability of a hardback, but for most fiction I buy, paperbacks are a much better value to me.
Re:Why wait? (Score:2)
Out of curiousity, how old are you? I'm asking because...
When I was ten or eleven, I hit a reading rate of one 300-400 page midweight (e.g. later Heinlein, Tolkien) book every 40 minutes, approximately. My reading rate increased slightly over the next few years, but when I was a freshman in high school, it began to decline slightly. I thought it might be simply that I spent more time chewing on the thoughts spawned by the words, but...
At some point after my 21st birthday, it dawned on me that I was taking a good one to two hours to read a 500 page book of moderate literary complexity. Somewhere around my 25th birthday, I noticed that it had become three to four hours for a similar book.
I read War of Honor a week ago. It's no 300 page book, but the truth is, Weber's a relatively lightweight writer. So when I realized that I'd been reading it for seven hours straight...
And Pratchett's "Night Watch" took me nearly five.
I'm not yet thirty. I refuse to believe my brain's degenerating that much, already...
On the flip side, I could afford my reading habits now, if I still read that much, even without the libraries that kept me afloat through college.
Re:Why wait? (Score:2)
I'm 43. My absolute reading volume has diminished due to the other things that take up my time -- work, netnews, computer games, etc. -- but my reading speed is still about the same. For fiction, it varies depending on how good the writing is -- if the writing sucks me into the book, the time to finish can be cut almost in half unless I make a deliberate effort to break out of it by stopping to get a glass of water or something every now and then, but I normally don't try to push my reading speed. As an experiment back in high school, I checked out a dozen SF novels from the public library, and was able to return them all read the next day -- which came in useful during college for pre-midterm reviews -- but fine plot details don't stay with me when I push my reading speed up past three or four thousand words per minute, so I don't do it much any more.
Re:Why wait? (Score:2)
Unless it's something by George R. R. Martin
I live in abject fear that he's going to die before finishing his current series... awesome books.
Nice (Score:2)
[quote]Discussion of the plot, even aside from spoiler concerns, is well-nigh impossible. There's simply too much that happens.[/quote]
While I'm all against spoilers, you got to tell something. Anything!
Re:Nice (Score:2, Informative)
Cheers
-s
Re:Nice (Score:3, Insightful)
What was it? What genre, if any? Is Honor male or female? Is the writing/plot/characterization good?
Of course, I've garnered some of this from the posts following the review (and I might just check out this series). The review by itself, however, doesn't stand on it's own.
Re:Nice (Score:2)
She forms strong friendships, leads people to do great things, and displays great tactical skill (and develops strategic skill) which, when coupled with her drive to serve, make her rise fairly rapidly though the ranks.
Her honesty and sense of duty often gets her into trouble, yet her personal integrity in the end makes people trust her more.
The series rarely (never?) hangs on technobabble or other deus-ex-machina advantage. In fact, she almost always has to do something clever (and it's interesting seeing what Weber will come up with) because she's got fewer forces, or has to defend a planet where the enemy has freedom of movement, etc...
But above that, it reads very well and the characters are deep enough to get into.
Compared to... (Score:2)
Re:Compared to... (Score:3, Informative)
Honor Harrington is the hero of the series. The books revolve around her. She always wins over incredible odds. The series started as a Horitio Hornblower in space. The way the ships work was designed to create the same feel as tall ships and iron men. The space ships fight in giant broadside battles.
The series is fun, but as we move into the later stages of her career we are dealing more with the politics of the world and larger forces are coming into play. This means that the books are moving away from the space battles and into the political battles, much as Miles moved from being an Admrial into being a Auditor. The Miles stories are all at a very personal level. We are very into his point of view and the problems he confronts are all his issues to solve. The later books of the Honor series bounce from view point to view point and the problems she faces are all larger than the battle in front of her. I like Lois MacMaster Bujold's approach to the characters better. I have more fun with it. David Weber's characters are more "stock" in this series and the action is more the point of the story. Both are action packed, but in different ways. It would be fun to see a Lois short story in the Honorverse, and vice versa.
Re:Compared to... (Score:2)
Funny, I like both -- a lot, but I'd have never guessed there were a lot more like me. Go figure.
Other than they're both science fiction with military/political themes, I don't see them as being similar at all.
Weber is a *very very good* genre writer, something that our culture seems to underrate. For me, he's an automatic buy (and I plunked down $25+ for War of Honor even being unemployed). I've bought about 15 books written or co-written by Weber and have never been disappointed. If you like the genre, buy his books; you will afford yourself many hours of reading pleasure -- a master of the formula.
Bujold is something else. While she understands the demands of the genre and delivers, there's a lot more there. In just about every one of her books, she has done something that made me say "Oh no! She's changing stuff completely and it's all going to turn to crap", except it never does -- she takes the characters in entirely new directions and carries you along with her; it astounds me that I've had this reaction about 5 times already, and that it took me that many times to figure out that, while she writes in the traditions of a genre, she is not a "genre writer".
I once was trying to explain why I like Lois McMasters Bujold to someone who is not a fan of science fiction, and the best I could come up with was "Imagine if Jane Austin wrote space opera".
Re:Compared to... (Score:2)
Funny, I like both -- a lot, but I'd have never guessed there were a lot more like me. Go figure.
You obviously don't read rec.arts.sf.written [arts.sf.written]. It seems that Bujold and Weber are all that people talk about sometimes.
Personally I dislike military sf, so it's all noise to me, but I'm definitely in a minority there...
Re:Compared to... (Score:2)
But both authors have a different writing style. Weber is a little more clancy-ish in battles, Bujold's characters tend not to get into fleet-level engagements quite as much.
Both very good, and I'll recommend Elizabeth Moon (writing alone) as well if you like either of them.
Re:Compared to... (Score:2)
For writing, I still prefer Bujold. She carefully crafts each sentence, and it shows. For sweeping space opera with a cast of trillions, Honor Harrington is the series to bet on.
Don't start with War of Honor, however. Either buy War of Honor and read the CD, in order, or download On Basilisk Station and Honor of the Queen from David Weber's [baen.com] page at the Baen Free Library.
I ordered two copies from my local independent bookseller, and donated one to be sold at a charity auction. Once people found out about the CD, they paid $60 at the auction...
Re:Compared to... (Score:2)
John Ringo's Posleen series (Hymn before Battle, Gust Front, When the Devil Dances). The bad thing about the CD was I couldn't stop reading - I went through two books a day until I polished off the Honor Harrington books - and that's a lot of books (about 350-500k per, compressed!) The other bad thing is once you've finished them off, you're left waiting until John Ringo and David Weber put out the next installments in their respective series. In the case of When the Devil Dances, that's one hell of a cliff-hanger he's got...
It's an interesting experiment. If the goal was to introduce new readers to stable authors, and to get them used to reading webscription type books, then I think they've succeeded. Those are two series I wouldn't mind adding as hardcovers to my library, and I am much more receptive to getting them as webscription editions for my laptop or for my palmpilot.
CDRom (Score:1)
Great initiative (Score:2)
The Baen Free Library (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The Baen Free Library (Score:2)
Hurray for Baen! (Score:2)
i can only recommend to read the introduction to the Baen Free Library [baen.com]. It's good to see, that not every one who depends on selling content wants to fleece the customers like sheep.
Living from content and a fair use policy are no contradictions. They explain why and how. And it works. I keep buying WebScriptions [webscription.net] and the books ;-). That I love to read John Ringo (Gust Front), David Weber (Honor series) and Lois McMaster Bujold (The Vor game) may explain it.
Yours, Martin
P.S. Has anyone already written a simulator (Perl prefered) for the starships in the Honor-Universe? I would like to check some battles :-).
Re:Hurray for Baen! (Score:2)
Plot, and a little more. (Score:3, Interesting)
Honor Harrington is a (space) naval officer in the Royal Manticoran Navy. She starts as a captain, later she's an admiral. The situation is a space-age re-writing of European history during the age of classic (water) naval battles. For the guy who mentioned Horatio Hornblower, you hit the nail on the head. Honor proves her own strategic brilliance, courage, honor(pun definitely intended by the original author), loyalty and sense of duty, mostly against overwhleming odds and underskilled opponents. A few skillful opponents are thrown in for proof that she's not just lucky.
Mixed into this action premise is a truly glorious back story of political intrigue and class conflict. The entire series can be taken as a diatribe against the policies of a welfare state if you want, but it's well concealed, and, in general, well thought out. Throw in a healthy spatter of the harsh realities of war and treachery, and mix well.
I had actually thought of doing a review of this novel myself, but I'm glad I was beaten to it. As the author says, the book is worth it, even if only for the CD. I'll add that as a political statement, buying this book/CD combination to try to encourage it in future publications is also worht it, even if you never read a word. But you'll be missing out if you don't.
Re:Plot, and a little more. (Score:2)
Re:Plot, and a little more. (Score:2)
Re:Plot, and a little more. (Score:2)
They should get the actress who played Dr Aki Ross in Final Fantasy, she's a babe.
Only kidding. But Michelle Yeoh [imdb.com] would be a natural for this role.
Who is Honor? What's It About? How Do I Work This? (Score:5, Informative)
As has been noted, The Honor Harrington Series is Space Opera, Military Science Fiction. What David Drake did for future tank crewman with his Hammer's Slammers books, Weber does for their space-navy counterparts. There is no "Earth" and no "Aliens," just some far-flung planetary empires, each with different politics (monarchy, socialism, feudalism, whatever) all on planetary scales.
Honor Harrington is an Ayn Rand Romantic Heroine from the Old School. She fights classism, fleet politics, bigotry, duels, and Big Honkin' Enemy Fleets with equal tirelessness and aplomb. She loses friends, limbs, eyes, commands, and keeps coming back for more, plasma cannons a-blazing.
The series has traced her career, from just-out-of-academy first command to whatever she is now, Lord Admiral of the Friggin' Universal Royal Fleet, or somesuch. (Personally, I liked her better when she was "coming up through the ranks," but hey...)
From a geek perspective, the series is notable for its rather detailed thinking-out of space navy mechanics. As someone here has said, Weber is Master of the Space Battle, not necessarily because they are any more exciting than your average Tie-fighter sequence, but because the detail in the physics and the navy crewmen operations seem exceptionally plausible.
If your idea of a good read is the latest Chicano-Lesbian-Prison-Drama from some Lower East Side playwright, move along, there's nothing to see here. If your idea of SF is a barrier-breaking, genre-bending, quantum-cyber-dystopic Enduring-Parable-For-Our-Time, ditto.
If, on the other hand, you enjoy a good read, with interesting, likable characters for whom you can really cheer, and an approach to space-battles that will have you running for your calculator and some graph paper, the Honor Harrington books are da bomb.
Re:Who is Honor? What's It About? How Do I Work Th (Score:2)
While the enemy (in the early books) is a dolist state, where everyone is on welfare, it strikes me as a comment about people who sell out for temporary gain more than people who take government handouts. It does bite them, this large burden they have to carry, but then all the political and social systems in the book get examined and we see the flaws in all of them.
Weber makes a few comments that indicate he's on the libertarian side of politics, but mainly in that some characters (not Honor) complain about a progressive tax, and that the "better" societies (that people enjoy living in) have less government control of sexuality and such, but that just seems to make sense.
It's also interesting in that Honor isn't religious, in fact she's an athiest though she rarely says anything that would indicate it, yet the book has what I (an athiest) feel is a fair and positive view of religion.
In fact, I feel less political and social commentary in these books than in most others.
The Characters of David Weber and C. S. Forrester (Score:3, Interesting)
Horatio Hornblower, even as an Admiral, is constantly faced with his deficiencies (he has little physical courage, he is unsociable and he can't hear music). Consider this excerpt from "Lord Hornblower", where he has to kill or capture a brig's crew, who have mutinied because their (literally) sadistic captain had them whipped daily:
Our other H. H., in contrast, is a likeable enough character. But she is perfect, she's a mix of Joan of Arc, Queen Elizabeth (of Armada fame) and the girl that the guy who did the Nike of Samothrake probably had wet dreams about. Let's see her in action:
And that's her as a midshipwoman, age 18. But hey, buy the books anyway, they're damn good military SF, and I really, really apreciate the good physics.
Re:Does this book stand alone? (Score:2)
I'm guessing the latest book maintains the series' stand-alone style. Can anyone here who has read it confirm?
Left Behind (Score:2)
I don't read the Left Behind novels but what caught my attention was the fact that there was a sticker advertising that all 11 Left Behind novels were on the CD in Palm and Microsoft Reader formats.
I know this is vastly different from what the person in this story is doing (since these are no doubt encrypted versions) but I find it interesting that the CD-ROM only retailed for $30 (and had even been marked down to $25). These books retail for $25 hardcover each and $15 on paperback (they do those "big" paperbacks, not trade paperbacks). To buy all 11 on paperback at a discount (let's say $10.49) would cost over $115 before tax, but they're giving them all away on this CD-ROM.
Clearly they don't think that there's much of a market to the PDA book market.
Anywho, I figured I'd point this out (since the Left Behind series is immensely more popular).
Please do us all a favor though and if you respond to this thread, don't turn this into a religious flame war (since the Left Behind series is a speculative fiction series about the rapture).
A novel too far (Score:2)
Tom Clancy had the same problem. In each Jack Ryan novel, Ryan got promoted. Once Ryan had been re-elected President, there was nowhere to go. So he set Red Rabbit back in Ryan's early career. That helped; Clancy is good at action, but mediocre at political novels. Weber has the same problem.
Boy, is my face red! (Score:2)
I've been reading my way through the enclosed CD, but it wasn't until reviewer pointed it out that I realized the book, itself, is also on the CD!
Boy, is my face red!
10 Stars - It's the Honorable thing to do... (Score:2)
I bought "War of Honor" from Amazon pre-publication & read it in one sleepless overnight sitting. Yes, I am a fan...
Honor Harrington appeals for several reasons. I like David Weber's plausible, well thought out, pleasantly unpredictable, carefully crafted plots & background. While it may seem he injects too much detail into the series, underneath it all is even more cultural history & a detailed scientific environment (available for those that want to read it) that is the basis for everything he writes.
What's even better is that the important nuances of each character's actions & reactions, their motivations & personas, are laid out for the reader to follow (but not always predict).
But the most important factor in the series is Honor Harrington's honor. Weber presents a future where a strong female lead strives to always do the right thing. If there is one theme throughout the series, it's that gentle pun of Honor doing the honorable thing.
Baen Publishing has done some amazingly right things with publishing on the Internet -- read the details at Baen (http://www.baen.com/library/) -- but the most daring of all is including the complete Honor Harrington series on CD with the hardback.
I give Honor 10 stars.
.
.
hmm, free copying... (Score:2)
Re:hmm, free copying... (Score:2)
Death before dis' Honor. (Score:2, Interesting)
Unfortunately, they started off 'okay' with On Basilisk Station and got steadily worse. In contrast to some who have posted here, I found the characters wooden, the science iffy, the plots childish, and the premise (Hornblower in space) stretched beyond credibility.
Weber's characterizations are quite shallow; HH herself is the only one with any depth to her at all and a walk through the ocean of her soul would scarcely get your feet wet. Aside from some adolescent angst wondering if she's doing the right thing by risking the lives of her crew (they did sign the waiver, didn't they?) in saving the galaxy, there's little here to suggest a real person instead of a plot automaton, bravely forging ahead because she's convinced she's doing the "right" thing. When the inevitable occurs and lives are lost in the cause, it's stiff upper lip and heroes all.
The science in the story is pretty much cut to fit the framework of naval broadsides. The warship's drive field projects zones of near-invulnerability on the top and bottom aspects, with soft areas in the "wedge" on the port and starboard. It's a nice way to be able to ignore that pesky third dimension that infest space battles over surface naval ones. I have to wonder if Weber doesn't think his readers are able to grasp the extra dimension, since they don't figure in his pyrotechnics (or for that matter in his characters). Many of the battles are based on actual historical ones at sea, and some mild interest can be generated by puzzling out which ones are represented in the novels.
Plot seems to come to most of these novels almost as a way to frame the space battles, and frankly, the battles are much better. As Weber moves further from the grisly fireworks and closer to political infighting, the series loses steam. Honor variously works her way through the naval ranks with her "brilliant" strategy and tactics, always seemingly in the right place at the right time, and ends up with an entire navy at her disposal before all is said and done. Even then, you can guess where she'll be found during any major hostilities: on the bridge of a warship, risking her supposedly-irreplaceable aft-quarters with the rest of the swabs. Fiesty, yes. Honorable, perhaps. Believable, no. In one novel, beset at all sides in a political ploy and outgunned and outmanouvered by her opponent, she settles his hash by challenging him to personal combat in a duel of swords! Riiiiight...
Still, I suppose I'll read this latest installment, since I'll have to buy it for the wife anyway. It's remotely possible that Weber will begin to tinge HH with some degree of humanity. It'd be nice to see her -fail- once in a while, especially considering how much of war comes down to pure dumb luck.
But then again, this isn't war. It's pulp fiction..
Re:Death before dis' Honor. (Score:2)
Granted, when there are only two ships (or small numbers on each side) they'll always rotate to face the majority of their weapons at the enemy (and at the distances between them, rotating is almost instant compared to wet-navy maneuvers) so everything would appear to be a 2D battle, though perhaps tipped weirdly to the POV of any spectator.
It's not until the LACs (smaller units equivalent to fighters) come into the later books that battles get fought at close range with maneuverable ships that can move around/over the enemy fast enough to keep an enemy from rotating to face them as desired.
I think this is actually fairly realistic, given the technology as written. In a babylon 5 world where weapons appear to be close-ranged only and they employ fighter-type units, this wouldn't be so realistic (the bab5 ships are lumbering compared to the 500+Gs of acceleration in the HH books.)
Secondly, Honor didn't challenge the guy to a duel, she was essentially trapped by her honorary position as the "defender" of the monarch, which let a clause in the constitution allow her to be challenged and meant she (and the monarch) would face fairly severe penalties if they didn't go along with it.
She won the fight with a "what's the real goal" kind of insight like Ender (Ender's Game - Orson Scott Card) where she fought an opponent who was more skilled, but in a stylized form of combat. She opened herself up to take a potentially crippling blow, but only because she didn't care about "touches" and was going for a quick kill. It was the kind of thing that only works once, but actually seems fairly reasonable in a society where duels aren't fought and people train in a stylized form of combat, for an outsider to see a weakness like this.
You may be thinking of where she challenged the professional duelist to a duel (as revenge) and won. It wasn't so much skill, though she is portrayed as being competition level, but the fact that her bionic eye (and presumably fairly obvious targetting software) let her make shots that would have been impossible for a non-cyborg.
As to luck, her main military defeat (only?) was a luck-based one, where she was on the lead ship that walked into an ambush and was unable to escape. This is partly explained as "she makes her own luck" in that she usually plays the role of a system defender and gets to plan an ambush, rather than moving into hostile systems and having to face an encamped enemy.
It reminds me of Ender's Game where while she's very good at many things (Ender too was a martial artist) her success mainly comes down to not getting stuck in the same conceptual traps as her enemies. She always seems to get as good as she gives when it comes to actual back-and-forth missile tossing or the like.
(If I remember a lot of nitpicky details it's because I just read the whole series after buying the CD-ROM, not because I've read them multiple times or anything.)
Re:Death before dis' Honor. (Score:2)
Both this duel and the second one (where she kills Pavel Young), happened way BEFORE she lost her arm and eye. Both of them were lost when she was on Hell, which was two books ago, the duels happened about the 4 book.
That said, some of the reasons she won the duels was the fact that she was a genie (engineered DNA), she was a heavy worlder, and was competion level in both Coup de Vitasse and pistol.
Not to mention the way she forged her fear and rage (love?) into a weapon.
And BTW, just because some has been studying something longer, does NOT make them more skilled. It is obvious during the sword duel that Steadholder Burkett(sp) had been studying sword for awhile, but only saw it as a physical workout instead of a combined mental/physical discpline. That combined with the, at the time, Grayson male superiority, let him loose that one.
BWP
Re:Death before dis' Honor. (Score:2)
And as someone below this points out, she had a bionic eye in the third and fourth books that specifically gave her telescopic vision. She again lost this in later books (burned out) and got an even better eye at the same time as she got her new arm.
Honor Harrington Shirts, Caps, swag, etc. (Score:2)
You can get a stylin' RMN jacket or cap, sport your love of all things treecat, or even have Harrington Steading towel sets.
Be sure to check out the other geekstuff there, especially all the bumper stickers you have ever wanted. The geekery goes on for days....
bookmarks on HTML version (Score:2)
On Distributing the CD-ROM (Score:2)
instead it's been this
The files have also bounced around a few Usenet groups, but the preferedd method of storage is still CD-ROM because it's easier to upload them via Palm Format, or quickly browse something via HTML without having to dig through a whole bunch of different directories.
OK, what's with Sluggy Freelance and Baen??? (Score:2)
Re:OK, what's with Sluggy Freelance and Baen??? (Score:2)
Re:Amazon have the CD? (Score:2)