Tivo 2 Features On the Horizon

Lemuel writes "Tivo has finally pre-announced its music and photo pictures for the Tivo 2. Users will be able to play MP3s and view photos that come from their computer. It will also be possible to program the Tivo via a web site. An official announcement is due in January. There will be revenue associated with these items. Only the remote programming sounds interesting to me, but I'm glad for anything that would keep Tivo afloat."

Re:Meanwhile

[wdr1]

I thought about going that route. However, there's a few things missing:

1) I don't want to watch TV on my monitor. My TV is nicer. My TV is in front of the couch. My TV has a better picture. My TV has sound through my stero.

2) Season Passes. To be honest, I don't know when half of what I watch is one. I just look at at my Tivo list & watch one of them.

3) Searching by category. Everyone so often, I like to go look at say, all the movies, coming up & Tivo the ones I've wanted to see.

4) The interface. Any way you cut it, Tivo did a great job here.

Viva La Tivolution!
-Bill

Yes another fee by tivo

[ad0gg]

First I gotta pay to use tivo , now they are gonna charge to view pictures and play mp3's(which are stored on MY HARDWARE), and worse they want to charge you to program your tivo via the web? And to add insult to injury, they spam my menu with ads and download ads to MY HARDWARE. Oh wait I forgot to mention their stuff is spyware and report what your watching to their servers. So how is this good?

Re:Meanwhile

[Keeper]

TiVo is very open about what kind of data they collect (data which is not linked to specific users), and provide an easy way to opt out of that collection process.

The fact that you can record video on a pc means nothing to me -- a Tivo is nothing but a really low end computer running linux -- but you don't get a Tivo just to record tv. Saying "my computer with a video capture card does the same thing" is like saying that "my ford escort is just as good for a 2000 mile treck across the country as luxury sedan". They both get the job done. One is just a hell of a lot nicer than the other.

Tracking what you watch.

[Anonymous Coward]

I WANT them to track my viewing habits. It's like voting for your favorite show. And if they want TiVo to record show that follow my habits, more power to them. Anything to reduce the "Friends" ratio can't be bad.

And for watching TV on my PC, I think I'd much rather sit in my Lazy Boy, with my feet up, looking at a 35" screen and not having the sound drowned out by CPU fans.

Love my Tivo... BUT...

[no_such_user]

I've been a Tivo subscriber for 2.5 years now, and while I love my Tivo (Series 1, 90+ hours), $13 a month is starting to get old. I don't understand who would be willing to spend yet more to play music and view pictures.

Really, there are too many things competing for a consumer's monthy share of the paycheck. There's cable/satellite. Cell phone. Bill payment service. Bank fees. The ISP. Tivo. Gym membership. Subscriptions to various web sites. And it's been said that the world's favorite operating system and supporting programs will be billed monthly in the not-too-distant future. With an economy in not-top-shape (here in the US, anyway) and the unemployment rate rising, who can afford to pay for all these monthly services?

As for increasing my $13/month to Tivo for new services... I'd consider a one-time charge to add software to it, similar to when I install an application onto my PC. But not a monthly billed increase.

Oh come ON already...

[sweet 'n sour]

Who cares about listening to mp3's and seeing pictures on yet ANOTHER device... And what does any of that have to do with recording, pausing, skipping which is what the tivo is supposed to be all about! Hell, my 65 dollar dvd player can do all that now. How many pictures can you stick on one vcd? a thousand?

Why not make a feature that we can really use... like high definition support!

Odd

[T. Will S. Idea]

What makes them think that people will pay extra to listen to music? People may pay extra if they get to download the music and burn it to CDs and transfer it to their MP3 players, but I can't imagine Tivo getting away with that when others have tried and failed.

And I can't even imagine how they could get people to pay extra to show their own photos on their own TV.

As a Tivo subscriber, I find it alarming that these guys are flailing around aimlessly with stupid business models like these. It makes me think that their days truly are numbered.

Re:Uhh...

[tswinzig]

I don't know about you, but my computer can already play MP3's and view photos. Why pay $250 to do that again?

Sigh. What is with these lame, ignorant posts getting modded up tonight?

1. Can your computer play MP3's on your stereo in the living room, which just happens to be hooked up to your TiVo?

2. Can your computer display photos on your big TV in the living room for the entire family to see?

If you answered No to either question, you just may be in their target market. Golly.

Re:Non-service PVRs?

[tswinzig]

Are there any good PVRs out there that you don't need to pay a monthly service fee to use?

No.

I mean, come on. TV listings are hardly worth $5/month or whatever. I can get all of that off the web for free.

Then do it.

However, if you think it's too much of a pain in the ass to write and maintain a program that can consistently generate accurate results for your home-brewed PC-based PVR, then you just may be interested in a TiVo, where everything is easy to use, and it costs a mere $13 a month for the entire service.

I also really don't want some company (and possibly TIA in the future) sifting through my TV viewing habits.

1. They're aggregate, not tied to you. 2. You can turn it off. 3. What are you afraid of? That Mr. BigWig will know you are one of 100,000 people watching X-files reruns at 3AM. WTF cares? Worry about something that matters.

Are there any PVR solutions out there that just let you record TV shows and watch 'em later?

The beauty of TiVo is what happens when you don't have to worry about setting your device up to record shows. You tell it what you like, and it does everything for you.

I think you may be looking for a VCR?

Re:Meanwhile

[tswinzig]

Why are Tivo Zealots so, well, zealous?

I could turn your question around on you. Why are computer-centric *nix zealots so against a user-friendly device that doesn't run on their computer?

Or I could answer your question directly and say, because non-TiVo users spout ignorant bullshit and get modded up by equally ignorant moderators?

Monthly fee. You may be willing to pay it, but I'm not.

Fine. Don't pay it. End of story. I couldn't care less if you aren't willing to pay it. Good for you.

However, if you want to post on slashdot and pretend that your no-monthly-charge, put-together PVR with the web-downloaded TV guide hack is as elegant as my $13 a month TiVo, please expect a strong rebuttal.

I don't care about downloading programming, etc, etc, all that stuff is available free on the web, I won't pay for it.

This is what drives me up the wall. I don't pay $13 a month merely for programming content. I pay $13 a month because TiVo, the company, takes care of making sure the content is accurate, the format is compatible with my PVR, the guide is updated if channel lineup changes occur, the PVR automatically uses the data to update recording times, the PVR handles my season passes automatically, etc.

Can't do a lot of cool stuff that it should be able to.

You're right, I'd love a TiVo BJ, but that hasn't made it in there yet.

The new Tivo's will come with a NIC, right?

No, they have a USB port where a USB/ethernet device can be plugged in, such as those found on 9thtee.com.

I should be able to connect to the Tivo and download mpegs.

You can. You've been able to for years. It's not officially supported (yet), but this is one of the reasons the TiVo Series 2 has USB ports -- so TiVo can make addons that support new feature ideas, without risking the entire device to lawsuits that may require them to stop production on certain products.

I should be able to send shows to friends, download them to my laptop, burn them to VCD, etc.

You can easily save shows out the S-Video port, to anything that can handle S-Video, such as a VCR, DVD recorder, etc. You can use the unofficial software I talked about above to pull video off the TiVo. Honestly I've never felt the need to do either one. However, there is nothing stopping TiVo from coming up with addons to add these features. I am sure this is why they added USB ports and are now talking about networkable features that are in the works.

Obviously I realize why Tivo will never include this functionality.

You do?

Re:Love my Tivo... BUT...

[tswinzig]

I've been a Tivo subscriber for 2.5 years now, and while I love my Tivo (Series 1, 90+ hours), $13 a month is starting to get old.

FWIW, if you had bought the lifetime service, you would have already saved over $100 in monthly fees, and pay nothing else going forward.

Really, there are too many things competing for a consumer's monthy share of the paycheck.

Competing, yes. The nature of capitalism. TiVo will find out if this idea works, and adjust it (or fail) if not.

And it's been said that the world's favorite operating system and supporting programs will be billed monthly in the not-too-distant future.

The idea being that you would pay less for it up-front, with a running monthly fee for the ability to use the latest version. Not that you would continue to pay $300 for Office, and a monthly service fee ON TOP of that.

With an economy in not-top-shape (here in the US, anyway) and the unemployment rate rising, who can afford to pay for all these monthly services?

The rich can afford to pay for ALL these monthly services. But you and I will have to pick and choose which monthly services we want. TiVo will be vying for your dollars along with everyone else.

As for increasing my $13/month to Tivo for new services... I'd consider a one-time charge to add software to it, similar to when I install an application onto my PC. But not a monthly billed increase.

Strange that you say that, when your past actions don't indicate that you really feel that way. You could have purchased the lifetime service from TiVo, and saved money already. Yet you pay the monthly fee.

Re:TiVo 2 vs. the spirit of CopyLeft & HDTV

[scd]

I'm assuming here that TiVo does give source changes back to the community. If they don't, tell me and stop reading.

Note that the "point" of the GPL (in your opintion) and the "letter" of the GPL probably differ. GPL says that if TiVo changes the source, they make those changes available. Nowhere is it stated that their hardware has to recognize an arbitrary kernel. It's completely within their rights to limit which kernels can run on the hardware they manufacture (as it is (or at least should be) within your rights to hack that hardware to allow arbitrary kernels once you own the hardware).

In short, if they provide access to their source changes, they are doing nothing wrong.

Re:Tivo 2 vs the spirit of CopyLeft & HDTV

[mbruns]

There's nothing in the text or spirit of the GPL that says Tivo needs to allow you to port new software to run on the Tivo hardware while you're using the service.

If you don't use the service, you can use the machine for a frisbee for all they care, but if you want to use the service on a day to day basis, you need to run a certain signed version of the kernel.

You're more than welcome to use Tivo's modifications to the kernel in your code, or any other code. That's the spirit of the GPL. Not that Tivo has too allow you to port new code to their architecture.

Re:More TiVo hacking links

[Keith Russell]

...they teach you how to modify for some personal, quasi-legal gains, but not others.

It's a simple distinction, really. Subscriptions are a source of revenue for TiVo.

Compare this to hard drive expansion mods, for example. If an OEM offered a unit with an expansion bay for a pre-blessed hard drive, such hacks would be frowned upon. (Of course, we wouldn't need that hack anymore.) But that's not the case. AFAIK, nobody is selling different capacities for the same model. The marginal cost of producing two models with different sized hard drives is greater than the cost of a single model. It's cheaper for OEMs to find the price-capacity sweet spot.

The Average Joe isn't concerned with expanding his TiVo's capacity. And if he does get interested, he'll see that the process is more "bike without instructions on Christmas Eve" than "plug it into the wall and turn it on". It's the Power User who wants more capacity. He's savvy enough to know that expanding a single box is the best option. Sure, the accountants would like you to buy a second box. Connecting and managing another unit, however, is sub-optimal compared to hacking a single unit by stuffing in two Drivezillas. It's not a lost sale, since anyone skilled enough to expand their TiVo successfully is smart enough to not buy two TiVos in the first place. Hopefully, they're also smart enough to not put two rattlesnake-loud 7200 rpm drives in a case designed for a single, quiet 5400 rpm drive without providing more airflow and sound baffling. :-)

Thus, we have the current Gentlemen's Agreement: Circumventing the subscription service hurts TiVo and, by extension, TiVo's user base, and is therefore taboo. As long as the hack doesn't impact the bottom line, however, TiVo won't try to stop it.

Slow to come

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm underwhelmed by these new features. And it took them a year go get them out.

I have the original TiVo and I don't feel at all compelled to get the new one.

The only thing my box was missing was a huge hard drive. I solved that. :-)

Re:Love my Tivo... BUT...

[Zathrus]

Well, show her that it's a recoverable expense -- if you wanted to upgrade to a newer TiVo in the future then you can sell the old one on eBay and get the entire cost of the lifetime service back. You can't do that for monthly fees.

Oh, and if you (or anyone else) does go looking to buy a TiVo - check out the returns at local stores. We bought my wife's that way and saved about $50.

A TiVo is a luxury item, why bash it for the fee?

[Jack_Frost]

TiVo is, in my humble opinion as a TiVo user, the best thing that's happened to TV. Posters who complain about the fee, saying that the same services can be had for free simply don't get it. It's a luxury item, my monthly fee pays for a service that I find highly valuable, and for $15 a month it's well worth it.

If you're interested in assembling your own computer PVR that's great, go ahead. But for me, and tons of other TiVo users, the value of TiVo can't be beat. The time it would take to cobble together and support a home-rolled box is non-trivial and personally, my time is worth more than the paltry fee I pay each month.

It's just like any other luxury item or service. I drive a sports-lux sedan because I value the extra pleasure I derive from driving it. If you don't want to drive a sports sedan that's fine, but your preference doesn't invalidate the choice for the rest of us that are willing to pay for it.