DVD Player as 802.11b Peripheral

sysadmn writes "Instead of building a PVR from a computer, why not let your DVD player access the computer you already have? That's the thinking behind Sonicblue's new Go-Video D2730. The just-announced DVD player will use an 802.11b (Wi-Fi) wireless network connection to access content on PCs, such as photos, music and videos. The player is aggressively priced at about $250 US and is due out in first quarter 2003. Full details are on CNET."

Fast enough?

[gzsfrk]

I notice on home home 802.11b network that the 11mbps connection between my den PC and upstairs office PC is nowhere near fast enough to stream high quality compressed digital video (e.g. DivX). How is this player going to be able to pull it off?

I wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

if it could access my favorite websites like Slashdot [slashdot.org] and theBubbler [thebubbler.com].

Now that would make it worth while investing in.

So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead, why not just spend $50 bucks and do this on your Playstation 2?

Q Cast Player [broadq.com]

This thing rocks, by the way.

Re:Ethernet, 802.11b add-on

[stevel]

It's even more misleading than it first appears - the article discusses a DVD player that allows display of content from your networked PC. The only reference to PVRs is a mention that ReplayTV boxes from the same company also offer network connectivity. There's nothing PVR-related in this announcement at all.

Don't people actually read the articles they point to before posting here?

Illegal?

[ottffssent]

I could have sworn it was illegal (or at least against some shrinkwrap EULA mumbo-jumbo) to play a DVD over any sort of wireless link. It came up during Microsoft's massively ill-conceived tablet PC thing, I believe.

Consumer Electronics vs PC

[sheddd]

Is really what's going on here. I saw lots've guys at comdex showing off new DVD players / etc that do new things. They seem to think that the average shmo will want to use their remote control rather than learning how to do the equivalent with their PC.

I think they're dead wrong; look at the device this article mentions.

"The Go-Video D2730 player's software will let consumers view content on their television that's stored on their PC using a remote control for navigation. The customer will be able to stream music files and other content on the DVD player. "

Hmm, what protocol does it use for filesharing? Netbios on a WiFi network? Will it play my ogg files? My DivX? My png photos? You can put together a shuttle SV-24 with a dvd player and a 6 channel sound card for about the same price they're quoting; that's what I use at home and I'm quite happy with it (except for the fact my TV won't do more than 640x480). If I were a gambling man, I'd sell sonicblue's stock [nasdaq.com] short and profit from their stupidity.

Re:Fast enough?

[Hayzeus]

11MBPS is probably fast enough; however, it's worth pointing out that 11MBPS isn't guaranteed by 802.11B. In fact, the connection speed can fall back to fairly slow speeds in the presence of a less than perfect RF link. I can't recall the bottom end off hand (1MBPS?).

It may be that you are seeing partial signal blockage or reflectance problems between your office and den. Try using something to benchmark the actual connection speed (if you haven't done so already).

Re:Ethernet, 802.11b add-on

[ThrasherTT]

Some (all?) of the editors don't even read the front page before posting news... how can they be expected to read the article?

802.11b too slow

[MentlFlos]

Ok, now put your calculators away here... I'm going to talk about how things look like and how they feel, not if a link can mathmaticly support bitrate X.

I've found that trying to stream anything worthwild over a .11b link is just too iffy. I often stream video files from my server to whereever I am sitting with the laptop. With the netgear card reporting a full speed connect at ~60% signal strength and 100% quality it is kind-of jerky at times. I know I'm pushing the limits of what that little wireless connect can do.

Now I can deal with it for now because I'm not expecting it to perform perfectly. However, what is going to happen when Joe Consumer picks one of these up, hooks in the wireless part and tries to stream his DVD rip collection and it gets .3FPS?

Answer: You get one very unhappy Joe Consumer.

I believe that people will expect this thing to do more then it can, and I doubt that sonic will be up front and tell people about this limitation.

Makes me think of a car dealer trying to sell a car for use on interstate highways but the car can only go 45MPH. Sure it works, but it isn't quite what you expected now is it?

DVD quality throughput?

[beest]

From tests I've done in the past with DVD quality streaming, wireless networks such as 802.11b can not support the throughput required. I've had DVD's max out at 13 MB/s. 802.11b can only send 11 Mb/s not including overhead which is greater than 802.3 in the first place...

Re:Is this really priced competatively?

[ergo98]

Well firstly your solution presumes that one's time is free: If you put a value on the hours you spend putting the system together, configuring all of the software, etc, suddenly it isn't economical. Rather than seeing it as a hobbyist, think "If I were to go into business making these for other people, what would I charge?". I suspect that you'd be surprized. Of course on top of all of that is the expense and availability issues in finding a "stereo component" sized computer case that integrates into an AV system (no dropping a giant beige case sputtering away with a dozen fans isn't viable).

Secondarily, it's highly likely that they're using one of the new Sigma Designs chipsets [sigmadesigns.com], the new one which includes some Divx support. Indeed if I were to build a PC based playback device (the only thing holding me back is the case, as previously mentioned. For fans I'd reduce that by using a Via C3 with passive cooling), I'd base it around a Sigma Designs XCard [sigmadesigns.com].

Re:Maybe I've overlooked something...

[wachusett]

That was my first reaction; I thought I'd misread something.

But maybe what they're suggesting is that if you use your PC (with a tuner card) to record digital content, and then can access that through your DVD player. Which effectively lets you use your PC as a PVR, without the hassle of burning DVDs or VCDs to play on your DVD player. You can also download or trade shows over the internet with your PC.

That'd be cool.

ReplayTV

[crow]

I love my ReplayTV. There are two priority levels: Non-guaranteed and Guaranteed. If you guarantee a recording, it will reserve hard drive space for the show and it will record it. It won't let you set two guaranteed shows for the same timeslot. The only time you run into problems is when the network shifts the schedule slightly so that two shows overlap when they normally wouldn't.

As to finding new shows, you can do a search fairly easily, and you can browse the guide. It's trivial to tell it to record something, and also trivial to change the settings on something already scheduled.

What Replay lacks is a to-do list. So if you have a bunch of non-guaranteed things (like my wife's "Shakespeare" theme or my "Stargate" theme), it will pick the one to record using a fairly cryptic algorithm (which one starts first; which one is on a lower channel; which theme was create first).

Better plan

[RealBeanDip]

Actually every "media" device in your house should have this capability. There should be such a thing as "storage" (i.e. hard drive) and everything from your video game console to your stereo to your video playback device and your computer should access it.

Put the "consoles" in their proper perspective; computers will be great for surfing the net and ordering content. Your video playback console is great for playing back your videos, and your stereo console is great for playing back music.

The point I'm making here is everything should be contected together, but accessed in with the console that makes sense. IMO, playing tunes and watching downloaded videos on a computer stinks. Playing video games on the TV rocks, but video game consoles with their own storage devices sucks.

If 802.11b wireless is the link that ties all these together, great, but it should be seamless and painless to the user to set it up.

Oh yeah, it needs to be secure too. ;)

Re:Definetely Illegal . . . . .

[aborchers]

I don't believe this constitutes broadcast since it's "pull" technology. i.e. the DVD player pulls the files over the WLAN. Broadcast is sending out the signal so that anyone with appropriate hardware can intercept it.

Re:Fast enough? (My experience)

[timeOday]

Exactly.

However, I stream video from my desktop (with TV tuner card) to a laptop (with TV-out) under the TV over 802.11b. I do this by mounting an NFS volume over a VPN I establish from the laptop to the desktop. My datarate is set so 1 hr of video will just fit on a 700 MB CD (in case I see a show I want to keep). I'm also running an ad-hoc (rather than access point) network, if that makes any difference. The laptop and desktop are fairly close together, but there are a few walls.

Under these conditions, I can just eek out enough bandwidth. There's more room for error if I stream over HTTP, but then I can't seek within the stream, so I stick with NFS.

Very occasionally for no apparent reason I'm unable to use the player - interference from something, I assume.