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Requiem for the Disappearing Pay Phone 559

StarEmperor writes "This Washington Post article describes the steady disappearance of pay phones as cell phones become more commonplace. Many pay phones, which used to generate hundreds of dollars per month in revenue, are now used so infrequently that they cost money to operate. I wonder what kind of environmental hazard is posed by junking thousands of pay phones?"
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Requiem for the Disappearing Pay Phone

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  • where can I get one? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by dknight ( 202308 ) <damen AT knightspeed DOT com> on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:40PM (#4985648) Homepage Journal
    What if I, say, want to buy these payphones they're throwing out? I'd love to have an ACTUAL payphone in my house or something.
  • by Marton ( 24416 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:44PM (#4985679)
    ... payphones are great to have in an emergency - and there are tens of millions of people in the US w/o a cellphone.

    The real question is: are they going to keep operating those phones that lose them money? Should payphones be thought of as something essential like public transportation, and possibly subsidized by the govt?
  • by rickthewizkid ( 536429 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:45PM (#4985684)
    They are available online, ebay, etc. The only trouble is, they have been "adjusted" to not require coins. If you were to want to make it a real pay phone, you would need the totalizer circuitry (not something the phone cos want to have in the wild ... look up the term "red box") and a ACTS phone line - convincing the telco to do that for you would be difficult....

    Just my 90-cents-for-the-first-three-minutes-worth...
    Ric kTheWizKid
  • Too bad.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FuzzyMan45 ( 451645 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:47PM (#4985695)
    the payphone out in the Middle of Nowhere already disappeared. Here [wired.com] is a link to the going-away of it and why. Basically, the National Park Service and the Mojave National Preserve thought that there would be too much environmental impact if the booth remained too much longer.

    --Fuzz
  • by wackybrit ( 321117 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:49PM (#4985701) Homepage Journal
    A similar story to this ran through the British press just over a year ago. The national telecoms provider (British Telecom - BT, for short) was feeling the pinch of cellphone use, and its payphones were bringing in less and less coin.

    Their answer was to fight back with 'improved' payphones, which were basically mini Internet kiosks. Many payphones in British cities are now these kiosks. You can still make regular calls, but you can also access numerous services like HotMail, etc.

    The thing is, I don't know if it's the way to go. I've never seen anyone actually use the Internet facilities on these, and I certainly haven't.

    Don't you have an alternative problem in the US though? That is, your cellphone coverage is absolutely awful, and payphones are still needed in most rural areas. It sounds like a good reason to keep them, but.. just don't go over to costly kiosks. They're a waste of time.
  • by neema ( 170845 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:52PM (#4985717) Homepage
    This should be modded up.

    That was such a stupid step to take, unless they were looking for everyone to add just one more thing to the list of the benefits of having a cell phone. Payphones always have had two advantages in my mind:

    1: They are wired, hence, no fuzz.
    2: Just one shiny thing and you could get a call through.

    Now that it's 50 cents, I find myself approaching a payphone and finding that I don't have the right amount of change on me. Who cares that it's unlimited? The three minute limit was just fine by me. I'm not exactly making leisure calls at a pay phone. The trade off is ridiculous and is bound to doom the payphones.
  • by kevcol ( 3467 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:52PM (#4985721) Homepage
    I only agree if the cell user is not using a headset and using a phone with special hands free dialing features. Otherwise, we might as well ban conversation between 2 or more occupants of a car.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:56PM (#4985746)

    Bell Canada has announced that they are converting some of their thousands of pay phones into 802.11 access points to extend their new WiFi service offering. WiFi-only companies like FatPort [fatport.com] would be wise to follow suit. PayPhones are in the best possible locations for WiFi -- think AirPorts, hotel lobbies, train stations...

  • by adamp3 ( 555665 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:59PM (#4985759)
    They should convert them into WiFi hotspots [slashdot.org].
  • by ryanisflyboy ( 202507 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:00PM (#4985766) Homepage Journal
    Rather than throw out all those pay phones, I think it would be much more interesting to see them reused. Perhaps as 802.11 access points or something. Just replace the phone with a digital pay box with an antenna on top. Simply swipe your credit card, hook into the network, and roam around with 20 or 30 minutes of wireless access.
  • limited coverage (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tr0tsky ( 207672 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:02PM (#4985777)
    There are still vast regions of the country that have limited cell phone coverage, especially for newer networks that provide high(er)-speed wireless data services.

    I recently switched cell phone providers from Verizon to T-Mobile so I could utilize their GPRS/GSM-based wireless internet service on my laptop (~115Kbps) using my new bluetooth-enabled phone. While CDMA coverage in the U.S. is rather extensive, the GPRS networks that AT&T and T-Mobile have deployed are still very much confined to highly-populated regions of the country.

    There I was in Westchester County, NY (about 50 miles N of Manhattan) trying to locate a client's office and imagine my frustration when my brand new GPRS-based phone was out of range. I had to stop at a supermarket and find enough change to call from a payphone - it saved my day.
  • Re:Recycling impact? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Fulcrum of Evil ( 560260 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:06PM (#4985800)

    Perhaps a more direct metaphor is in order: You're picking up litter in a burning building.

  • by DeadSea ( 69598 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:08PM (#4985813) Homepage Journal
    Indeed, if you search, there are quite a few pay phones [ebay.com] on ebay. Pretty impressive.
  • Wonderful. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by DwarfGoanna ( 447841 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:11PM (#4985830)
    I can't stand cell phones, I don't need or want one, and I don't plan on getting one now. Maybe I have become truly die hard cynical, but this smacks of another case where I am being herded into buying something I don't need, because the public (read free or optional) alternative was taken away from me. I am so moving to Canada or Australia.
  • Re:limited coverage (Score:2, Interesting)

    by John Murray ( 149 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:12PM (#4985836) Homepage
    Lets not forget there are still vast regions of the us with NO cell phone coverage at all. If you actually look at many providers coverage maps, in much of country you will only find cell service along interstates.

    If mobile phones become even more common, it might be time for the government to step in and force cell companies to provide true national coverage with decent capacity for calls. One way to do this could be, placing requirements on building permits for new cell installations, requiring as condition of approval. The other problem is many cells are all ready overloaded with normal call volumes, hopefully additional requirements could be made to force cell providers to have extra capacity, for emergencies, etc.
  • by Xipe66 ( 587528 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:14PM (#4985844) Homepage Journal
    Maybe it's time for a new topic for mods to vote on "How appropriate, in the slashdot tradition, do you think this article/news item is?" Meaningless and/or uninteressting stuff are more and more frequent on the slashdot frontpage (or maybe I should change my profile to display less entries?).
  • PayPhones are good (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:38PM (#4985930) Homepage Journal
    If, like me, you don't have a cell phone, payphones are a good thing.

    Payphones have all but disappeared around London, since so few calls are made on them and almost everyone has a cell phone. This trend started years ago. When I was last in London cellphones even worked down in the Tube.

    One thing disappearing payphones would mean: One more parking place available at finer gas stations and 7-11's everywhere.

  • by phr1 ( 211689 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:40PM (#4985940)
    San Jose Mercury story [bayarea.com]: hundreds of mailboxes removed from San Francisco bay area, due to low usage, garbage thrown in mailboxes, fear of more anthrax attacks, etc. etc. I can't help worrying about all anonymous means of communication shutting down.
  • by newt ( 3978 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:50PM (#4985973) Homepage
    Should payphones be thought of as something essential like public transportation, and possibly subsidized by the govt?

    They are in most countries (either directly as a public service, or indirectly as a consequence of the fact that the Government usually owns the phone company).

    It's only in the US that payphones depend on the corporate whim of a for-profit company.

    - mark

  • not to worry... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:50PM (#4985976)
    Many municipalities require that telcos provide payphones within the region they serve as an understood cost of having control of the local area. NYC is a good example of this; Verizon is required to provide a certain number of payphones within a certain area, etc.

    Additionally, the cost is offset greatly by the advertising revenue generated by payphones. The REAL issue isn't the telcos killing off Payphones, but putting up booths with no phones IN them for months at a time. Verizon got nailed for doing this in an NYT articlea while back.

    Either the WP post is totally off base, or other municipalities andthe baby bells that serve them are friggin' morons.

    -rt
  • by MacAndrew ( 463832 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @11:55PM (#4985996) Homepage
    I wonder what kind of environmental hazard is posed by junking thousands of pay phones?

    How about junking hundreds of thousands or millions of cellphones. Plus the batteries each unit may go through in a lifetime. There's no way those things last as long as a nice clunky pay phone. I know we have a couple of dead ones around here somewhere, and a lot of people upgrade simply for fashion or features.

    Yes, people are looking into recycling the phones. It's difficult because the materials are so heterogeneous, and though a few like tantalum are quite valuable, the labor to break up the phones can outweigh that. A nicer idea -- hand-me-downs [businessweek.com] to less wealthy developing countries, for sale or parts. Cellular phones have a disproportionate value in countries that never got the telephone line infrastructure in the first place.
  • by AnonymousCowheard ( 239159 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @01:20AM (#4986369) Homepage
    Let us face the facts...the Line-driven phone system is surprisingly obsolete.

    In Poland, and many other countries I don't remember, the Phone system consists of a cellular network! Many people disagree with cellular systems, out of fear of medical influences; that is reasonable. Yet ther is no other ethical wireless alternative to microwave other than what? Pick somthing that doesn't need to be ran through a medium; fiber optice need not apply, infrared could imply somthing good, wire is back to stage1. The total cost of ownership of modern phone booths on an out-dated phone system is the problem. They take too much space, too much maintenance, and are generally not reliable in all situations of elemental emergency (vehicles that smash into them, storms, vandelism,etc). What they need is a more ethical data-networked system. Future phone booths may as well be a service provided by a local internet cafe, that is the technology I think will reserect the layed-off .com people back into a profitable battle. A phone booth today gives me no reason to visit it...unless I can download the latest linux kernel in less than 100 seconds for $1.00. With such a more efficient data network, membership would be based on unlimited use, bandwidth/quality that you desire, congestion status of the network, and/or a random non-member use that is payable at the node (aka receptacle/phone).

    Total cost of ownership of computer hardware is much lower than qualified line installers running around an area creating ground loops and phucking with a phreaking system of accousticly line-driven phones. Can you imagine, maybe membership of your internet service provider could provide access to such a future communication booth. That is worth the clustered effort for such as wireless system!
  • by tswinzig ( 210999 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @01:23AM (#4986382) Journal
    They are in most countries (either directly as a public service, or indirectly as a consequence of the fact that the Government usually owns the phone company).

    It's only in the US that payphones depend on the corporate whim of a for-profit company.


    You make it sound like its a bad thing.

    Why should my tax money go to help someone loser make a free phone call?

    I don't have a problem with the government installing emergency phone booths that are wired to 911 for things like that, but I'll pass on footing the bill for someone else's calls... they get enough of my money as it is!
  • by lazlo ( 15906 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @02:09AM (#4986528) Homepage
    There is another big difference between talking to a passenger and talking to someone on the phone. If I'm talking to a passenger, there is some chance that they will cause me to look at them, to make eye contact. My wife often complains that I don't look at her when I talk to her enough, but even once while driving is too many times.

    I also have often wondered about how the laws about cellphones are written such that they cover cell phones but not cb's. And for some reason it really bothers me that there is almost certainly an explicit or implicit exclusion for police.

    But, in a vain effort to swerve this post from its current tangent back towards on-topicness, the one thing that seems to bother me the most about the disappearance of payphones is that they're often very usefull in emergencies. Not everyone has a cellphone, and there are often circumstances which render them useless (bad signal reception, low battery, etc...) It's nice to have a hardline here and there where 911 can be dialed with ease, if you happen to see an accident or a fire, or a lynch mob, or perhaps if you're experiencing a heart attack or just went into labor. Granted, these are not common occurences, and the telco's certainly shouldn't be forced to maintain costly infrastructure at a loss, but at the same time that payphones are being pulled down, local and state governments are erecting emergency call boxes. Would it be all that hard to have the government agencies that are erecting the call boxes just use that money to pay the telco's to maintain their payphones? It seems like there should be a middle ground here....
  • by JohnFluxx ( 413620 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @04:33AM (#4986915)
    It is indeed a very interesting subject - one of which you have barely scraped the surface.

    My dad was a postman, and he used to tell me that almost all the junk mail that was delivered was delivered to the poorest estates. For it was the poorest of the council estates that were buying new TV's, new sofas etc.

    I've noticed this over and over again - lower class people mismanaging money, owning huge tv's, expensive sofas etc. The (few) middle class people I knew either didn't have a tv or had a really cheap one. (Although they did take expensive holidays etc.) Expensive cars seem to fit into both categories.

    Why does it seem that lower class people are more prone to consumerism? I don't know - perhaps a mixture of no education, depression (just don't care anymore), environment, etc.

    Btw, has anyone heard of any studies of comparision of intelligence between upper, middle, and lower class? (I'm aware of the lack of clear divides etc)

    p.s. - I'm very much in the lower (or is it 'working' class), so don't take this as arrogance.
  • by Vintermann ( 400722 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @07:10AM (#4987264) Homepage
    What do you do with the huge adress book in your cell phone? I fill it with pay phone numbers. See, sometimes I want to dial a person. Other times I want to dial a place, and the person is not important.
    I have collected about a hundred or so I suppose. Shared them with my friends of course. We sometimes dial them to ask some stranger what the weather is like there, whether the bakery has some nice offers etc. Sometimes we play music at them.

    Responses have been entirely positive (it's not harassement, after all, if you actually take a pay phone that's ringing, you're expecting to be suprised).

    Wardriving sounds fun, and a lot more useful than this, but hey, not everyone can afford a wireless card...

    Want to try? I'll share some of my numbers with you. They're in norway. so it's expensive for most of you, but... just remeber to put 047 in front of them to get out of your own country.

    Some boxes near Bislett stadium in Oslo:
    22565586
    22607202

    Box near (a duious) pub in my hometown. Call it at midnight on a friday for an interesting chat.
    70132334

    A mall in Oslo, Byporten:
    22171821

    Airports are full of bored travelers. Here are some numbers for Gardermoen, Oslo:
    63975924
    63983701
    63982832
    63983706 ...And some more...
    63983703
    63982831 ..and some from the airport in my hometown, Vigra
    70183623
    70183622

    Karl Johan is the main street in Oslo, always a busy place:
    22834080
    22834978
    22835775
    22835777

    A subway station in Oslo, Grønland:
    22174166
    22175106
    22175563
    22175567

    The school where I'm trying to become a software engineer (phone boxes outside the toilets):
    70126928
    70128975

    OK, that's it for now. I can't guarantee no typos, or that some boxes may have been taken down. If someone could post numbers for boxes in their surroundings, I'd be grateful (preferrably in a more relevant/permanent forum than this slashdot thread)
  • by weave ( 48069 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @07:19AM (#4987288) Journal
    Yes, it's true, for the most part. Many plans now charge for "air time" during peak hours (0600-2100 M-F) only, weekends and evenings are unlimited (free). Long distance all around the country is no extra charge so basically on weekends I can make a call to a landline or other cell phone 3,000 miles away and talk for several hours and not be charged a single penny.

    The U.S. mobile market may be chaotic because of all of the different "standards" here (CDMA, TDMA, GSM, iDEN, PCS [aka CDMA-1900]), but the competition for customers is so fierce that the companies are doing this.

    Mind you, the peak minutes are expensive (I get 400 minutes for $40 and extra minutes are 45 cents), and incoming calls are tallied against that as well -- except during off peak time.

  • by Jish ( 80046 ) on Tuesday December 31, 2002 @08:09AM (#4987382)
    I was in Manhattan on 9/11/2001 and I know that there were lines at the pay phones everywhere. My cell phone and landline were down most of the day, but I assume the people on the pay phone were getting through to their loved ones?

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