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Television Media

Study Finds Tivo Less of a Threat to Advertisers 227

Posted by Hemos from the beating-back-the-badness dept.
talboito writes "AdAge.com reports that an internal study by Proctor and Gamble concludes that Tivo viewers who fast forward through ads recall their content at similar rates as those watching at normal speeds. The article concludes with a choice quote by Proctor and Gamble's former head of research on the significance of the results; "[Proctor and Gamble] may still go out and try to browbeat the networks into giving them a lower CPM [cost per thousand viewers] on the basis of it, but they'd want to know either way.""
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Study Finds Tivo Less of a Threat to Advertisers More

Study Finds Tivo Less of a Threat to Advertisers

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  • so (Score:4, Offtopic)

    by neo8750 ( 566137 ) <zepski.zepski@net> on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:36PM (#5534210) Homepage
    does this mean we will have faster adds on TV?? FP

    • Re:so (Score:5, Funny)

      by mz001b ( 122709 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @12:20AM (#5534435)
      does this mean we will have faster adds on TV?? FP

      I hope not, blipverts can cause your head to explode.

    • Re:so (Score:4, Informative)

      by randyest ( 589159 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @01:13AM (#5534651) Homepage
      er, wouldn't they want to make the commercials slower, so they look normal in FF?

      Anyway, this doesn't suprise me (except that P&G released the study results). What does surpise me is that you can still use a ReplayTV (Tivo's cousin) and automatically skip all commercials in live (time-shifted) or recorded programming.

      It works about 95% of the time on 90% of the shows. 75% of the time on 10% of shows. And, for when it fails, there's the 30s jump button (also available, but undocumented/unsupported on Tivo with a minor hack/code entry).

      I see so few commercials I actually started to miss them and now occasionally turn off auto commercial advance, especially during shows that tend to have cool/relevant commercials (such as The Daily Show).

      Perhaps even more surprising is that you can send recorded tv shows (or whatever) to another replay using built-in features (ip based), which is especially cool using broadband with the built-in ethernet. You can also program the thing from anywhere over the web if you use the network connection (modem is included too).

      Most amazing, though, is that you can use OS software to send mpg's to/from your PC! [sourceforge.net]. Any PC. It's rather cool.

      Sorry for the replayTV commercial, but it really is that cool. Tivo is cool too, though not quite as apt to enrage The Man as replayTV (no auto commercial advance on Tivo -- you have to press a button to skip, either 30s jump or FF). And no sending shows anywhere, to PC's or other Tivos. Both are ultra-hackable though, so if you want one, get the smallest/cheapest (40hr) and add a bigger drive (200GB = 200Hrs =~ +$200).

      I know replay (sonic Blue) is getting sued over these features, but so far it hasn't affected my service (and I've backed up my system just in case, and found server emulation that will be released if needed). Does anyone have an update on the lawsuit?

  • Ads on TV (Score:5, Interesting)

    by shird ( 566377 ) on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:38PM (#5534229) Homepage Journal
    as the FP poster stated, this could mean FFW ads on regular TV, could get 5+ times as many ads in the allocated 5mins or whatever the break is. :)

    However, I think the recall has something to do with recognising an ad that youve seen previously, and the FFW glimpse prods your memory back to that ad - hence achieving brand recognition, which is the overall goal. But just seeing the ad in FFW only, probably wouldnt get the desired effect, especially with no sound.
    • However, I think the recall has something to do with recognising an ad that youve seen previously, and the FFW glimpse prods your memory back to that ad - hence achieving brand recognition, which is the overall goal.

      That's a good point, branding is alot more difficult starting out, but for brands that are already established, it's great 'news'.

    • Re:Ads on TV (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Zathrus ( 232140 ) on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:54PM (#5534310) Homepage
      I think the recall has something to do with recognising an ad that youve seen previously

      Perhaps. But both my wife and myself have been FF'ing through commercials (at 20x - 2x is too slow, 60x usually too fast) and will see a commercial that either looks interesting, is for some product we want to watch commercials for (generally her employer or former employer), or have heard about and want to watch (like the Nike soccer streaker commercial).

      Obviously it's only the first one that would be of interest to advertisers - the second is a non-sell and the third requires someone to have watched it in the first place. And while the first one doesn't happen very often, neither does our watching commercials at all. I'd say it's about equal in occurance to the others.

      Fact of the matter is, however, most commercials are even crappier than most shows. I only watch the shows I like. I've been stuck watching commercials at friends' and relatives' houses and... wow... no wonder so many people think TV sucks.
    • They played on this in Max Headroom. For those not in the know, the idea was insanely fast commercials, sort of a play on subliminal advertising (which was still a big concern back then). Watch enough of them however, and they kill your brain (or something equally 80s cheesy :)

      I'm spooked every time I see those shorts on TLC, where the announcer says some tagline for some product, but they've electronically sped up so that the guy sounds like he's shilling Mirco Machines. Life imitating Art indeed...

    • Re:Ads on TV (Score:3, Insightful)

      by EvilTwinSkippy ( 112490 )
      Advertising was different back when they would hawk soap or light bulbs or toilet paper. You know, stuff that you USE on a day to day basis.

      Now I haven't owned a TV in almost a year. My TV dosage comes in small one or two hour bursts when I stop over my Mom's place.

      All I see are Ads for Beer, Computers, Cars, and Perscription drugs for old people. I'm pushing 30, I think most beer sold in the US is weasle piss, I'm set in my ways with scratch-built linux boxes, and I intend on driving my 3 year old car

  • viewers who fast forward through ads recall their content at similar rates as those watching at normal speeds


    Hmm... Does this make anyone else think of the blip-verts in Max Headroom?

    I can just see the advertising agency actually making something like that after this study.

    • odd moderation (Score:2, Interesting)

      by RalphBNumbers ( 655475 )
      How can this comment be moderated as a 3, then moderated down as overrated, when a practically identical comment is immediately after it and moderated to a 5 without any overrated modifiers?

      I don't mean to whine, but this just boggles my mind.

  • Blipverts (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drmofe ( 523606 ) on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:39PM (#5534235)

    If recall is just as good in fast-forward mode, advertisers should wonder why they need to pay for 30-second slots :-)

    • If recall is just as good in fast-forward mode, advertisers should wonder why they need to pay for 30-second slots :-)
      Because it would be much more difficult for them to charge as much for a sequence of flashing images as they do for what they produce now.

    • Re:Blipverts (Score:5, Insightful)

      by martyros ( 588782 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @12:14AM (#5534411)
      Because when you're fast-forwarding through something, you have to pay attention so you know when the commercials are over. For normal TV, you can just wander around and not pay attention to the commercials. It only takes you a second to realize the commercials are over and to start paying attention again. But you don't want to skip the first 30 seconds of the show by accident, so you actually *watch* the ads to find when they're over.

      It's sort of like those guys who say, "I drive better when I'm drunk, because I really have to focus on what I'm doing..." Yeah.

      • Using the skip-30-seconds feature and the replay-last-ten-seconds feature we find that we can blow through several minutes of commercials, overshoot, and back up to the couple of seconds prior to the show in about four seconds per commercial break.

        Maybe 5 seconds if it's a long ad sequence.

        Fast forwarding through them takes too long.

    • because you can't really advert a _new_ product in 3 secs.

  • In that case... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Well then, P&G shouldn't have any problem showing all their commercials at 5x the normal speed. Heck, they could pile a half dozen commercials into a 30-second spot now.

    Regardless of their internal report, Tivo-like devices in the long run will be the demise of the 30-second commercial and commercial breaks.

    Product placement is the unfortunate future.

  • how about television, with stations/content that you choose, and no ads at all... for a little more cash
    • I'd love to had an ad-free feed of my favorite networks. Studies have already shown that TiVo users are far more likely to subscribe to premium networks such as HBO and Showtime. Even though I can skip ads with a couple twitches of a thumb, I'd gladly pay for a feed that didn't have them in the first place.

  • Bizarro Headroom (Score:3, Funny)

    by Mirage ( 9375 ) on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:39PM (#5534241)
    Perhaps we'll start seeing reverse-blipverts...

  • Proof that the TV ads are as vacuous as they seem (Score:4, Funny)

    by shayborg ( 650364 ) on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:40PM (#5534244)
    Heh, if fast forwarding through the ads provides the same information content as watching the whole thing, imagine what a waste of time watching advertisements is!

    -- shayborg
  • But I imagine the reason the ads get absorbed (whether or not you've seen them before) is that they are designed to tunnel directly into your hippocampus (sp?) which doesn't have any sense of time, just an eternal, reptilian NOW.

    Which is also, incidentally why the lizrd brain is prone to violent outbursts. Sexy outbursts too!

  • Just think: If people have the same recall of adverts with Tivo vs. without Tivo, we could improve the economic fortune of the country, maybe even the world ! (grin)

    On a only slightly more serious note, I always try to record the limited number of shows that I watch with the intent to avoid commercials. (Although I own a $70.00 VCR rather than a tivo) The only exception to this rule is the news.

  • great taste - less filling (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hashmap ( 613482 ) on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:44PM (#5534261)

    you know, I have tivo and hate ads, yet I always stop fast forwarding when the "great taste-less filling" ad comes up ... (for those that haven't heard about it, it is with two hot babes that beat each other up over beer)

    I also regulary watch the Mitsubishi ads too, those are pretty fun

    all we need are fun ads

    h.

  • 'People hardly recall anything' (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rela ( 531062 ) on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:44PM (#5534262) Journal
    Awesome! So I'm not the only one! =)

    Seriously, this doesn't seem to surprising to me. Just getting the image of your brand into someone's head is very important. How often can you tell what an advertisment is for, even with, say, the audio muted? Quite often for me.

    I'll make the obligatory reference to blip-verts now, since we're talking about ads and speed. =)

  • New feature (Score:5, Funny)

    by onthefenceman ( 640213 ) <szoepf.hotmail@com> on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:45PM (#5534266)
    I think TiVo should build an IR sensor into the front of the unit like the ones in auto-flush urinals. When youre playing back a recorded episode it could sense when you leave the room for a beer and automatically edit out the commericals...
    • Actually, that reminds me of an idea I had just a while back.

      I was thinking about reading versus TV-viewing, and realized that TV's problem is that it just keeps going no matter what. Where as, with text, it takes no effort to stop the progress.

      It might be a very good idea to detect eye movement just enough that your tivo can tell if you are paying attention or not. If you are distracted, and look at something else, the Tivo can pause the show. In addition, if your eyes are closed for more than a few m
    • I think TiVo should build an IR sensor into the front of the unit like the ones in auto-flush urinals. When youre playing back a recorded episode it could sense when you leave the room for a beer and automatically edit out the commericals...

      And to pause the main program when you get up to use the auto-flush urinal because of too many beers...

  • Makes sense. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheSHAD0W ( 258774 ) on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:45PM (#5534268) Homepage
    If you're waiting for a commercial to finish, you aren't really paying attention, just waiting, and snoozing... On the other hand, if your finger is on the fast-forward button, you're paying attention so you don't zoom past the start of the next scene, so you're more likely to catch pieces of the commercial inadvertently.

    • Re:Makes sense. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mosch ( 204 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @12:43AM (#5534525) Homepage
      This especially true in cases where the advertiser can directly or indirectly control which frames are displayed during fast-forward. TiVo (and most other PVRs) only display P frames while fast-forwarding, so in the case of DirecTV, or digital-cable based PVRs, the content producers can make sure that the full frames will be ones with a few key images, and some large, easy to read corporate logos.

      For the rest of the images, they can just subtly change the colors enough that it should force the mpeg encoder to encode a new P frame instead of another I frame. It wouldn't be noticeably visible to the viewer, but it would allow some amount of control as to which frames are seen by the PVR user.

      I can't seem to google it, but there's been some interesting research into how to make ads effective for both regular-time viewing, and PVR fast-forward viewing.

    • On the other hand, if your finger is on the fast-forward button, you're paying attention so you don't zoom past the start of the next scene, so you're more likely to catch pieces of the commercial inadvertently.

      Hmmm.. you must not have a Tivo. On the top, fast forward setting (the one I use the most), it moves at 1 minute per second. That's about 2 commercials per second.

      As much as I hate commercials, I have to say that this study is pure bullshit. Of course my nerves of pure playstion might be a little
    • This isnt much of a surprise. We're already familiar with thousands of corporate logos and it doesn't seem to take much brain processing to spot one in a jumbled fast forward. We're already conditioned to find that Nike swoosh or Chevrolet logo.

      I like to take it up a notch and silently think to myself, "Crap, crap, crap" as the commercials pass by. A little counter-conditioning can't hurt.

      I don't even know why we even have an ad industry. I'm much more impressed by something as simple as, "This show i
    • Oh totally. My wife and I race to see who can yell "BowFlex!" first when the commercial invariably flicks by.

  • This is a reflection of the Adds not Tivo (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bstadil ( 7110 ) on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:48PM (#5534278) Homepage
    Wow, This is bad.

    The conscious decision to fast forward makes more of a mental impact then dozing thru the whole litany of Smiling happy people getting full filled thru spot less shirts.

    This should be read as scathing critique of the add agencies ability not something to do with Tivo.

    I once read that the metabolism of a typical teenager watching TV, is lower that same person sleeping. (can find it via google)

    Go ahead download some illegal content from Kazaa at least it will stimulate our intellect.

  • Only fast forwarding through ads (Score:4, Interesting)

    by doormat ( 63648 ) on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:49PM (#5534279) Homepage Journal
    Whats interesting is that this only covers fast forwarding through ads, and not skipping ads entierly (a la Replay TV). So I presume P&G will still want discounted rates no matter how these results turned out.

    Also, what I found more interesting was that in their testing, people barely remembered anything. So it makes sense why commercials are getting more annoying, since it will stick in your head longer.
  • Must have had newborn kids. This PVR has SAVED my TV viewing life. The ability to a)pause live TV, b) rewind when you missed critical dialog during a screamfest, and 3) Watch your favorite 9pm (MST) TV show when you have enough banked time to watch it is invaluable...

    Cause sometimes the only time I can watch CSI: Miami is Saturday at 9am.
    • Pause is great. Especially since my wife often wants to talk to me during important pieces of dialog. Of course, the downside is that she has come to view this as acceptable wheras before, I would probably have shushed her down and conditioned her against it. This has led to unfortunate hertalk-pause-listen-silence-backup-play-hertalk-p ause-listen-silence-backup-play-hertalk-pause-list en-silence-backup-play
      loops which are *very* annoying.


      Rich

  • "... but they'd want to know either way."

    And they've given you exactly 48 hrs to do it.

  • At least people are watching the TiVo'd ads (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 17, 2003 @11:58PM (#5534327)
    I'm inclined to think that the retention might be HIGHER for TiVo users. At least they're sitting there in front of the TV watching the screen intently waiting for the optimal second to release the FF button.

    Then, of course, 9 times out of 10 you overshoot, and have to run back, meaning that you actually get most of the last ad at regular speed (I can already hear the ad execs charging more for the last spot)

    Compare this to 'regular' viewing where many, many people get up for a bathroom break, grab a drink, bite to eat, even (gasp!) converse amongst themselves during the commercial break and therefore don't see ANY ads at all.

    Of course, this won't result in the 1/5 duration ad since those TiVo users will now see them at 1/25 normal speed and there has to be a point where there aren't enough frames for the human eye to discern the content - that is until you start talking subliminal messaging, which is a whole other issue.
    • Of course, this won't result in the 1/5 duration ad

      Actually, it surprises me we haven't seen slow-motion ads, designed to appear normal to someone fast forwarding through them. The first few to do this at normal speed will have folks without a TiVo scratching their heads (and thus, watching the ad), and those with a TiVo will do the same at seeing an ad look "normal" at 5x regular speed.

      The real breakthrough, though, will come when someone realizes that you can have ads that look correct at normal and
    • Then, of course, 9 times out of 10 you overshoot, and have to run back, meaning that you actually get most of the last ad at regular speed (I can already hear the ad execs charging more for the last spot)

      What? TiVo has overshoot adjustment built in, where it starts regular play a little bit BEFORE where you hit play to get out of FFW... it's rather accurate at resetting itself right back to the fade in of your program.... and if you DO hit it too late, the instant recall button takes you back 8 seconds e
    • that is until you start talking subliminal messaging, which is a whole other issue.

      Which issue are you referring to?

      The issue that subliminal messaging is evil, will make you kill your cat, buy more popcorn, and do just about anything the evil advertisers care to tell you to do?

      Or the isse that the subliminal effect has never been proven an is actaully an urban myth [snopes.com].

  • LA Times article (Score:5, Interesting)

    by JoeCotellese ( 126966 ) <{ten.eselletoc} {ta} {eoj}> on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @12:00AM (#5534341) Homepage
    The LA Times is running an article [latimes.com] discussing why PVRs aren't in every home. The conclusion is the structure of cable monopolies is preventing rapid adoption.
    • That's a load of crap. It's not the job of Warner Cable to make Tivo's product a success. The job of Warner Cable is to see to their own profits. They didn't coax along the VCR or DVD. So we shouldn't expect the same for Tivo.

      "Cable monopolies" have nothing to do with it. Tivo components (HD's and mpeg encoders) are simply at a different point in the manufacturing curve from DVD.
      • Actually, Time Warner is offering a Tivo like system(I forget the fancy name they picked, but they ironically advertise it non-stop where I live), wherein they get money from your subscription to make up for loss of advertising.

    • That's just fucking bizzare... (Score:5, Informative)

      by yomahz ( 35486 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @01:42AM (#5534768)
      The conclusion is the structure of cable monopolies is preventing rapid adoption.

      Hmm... That's just fucking bizzare.... especially since Comcast and Cox (2 of the top cable companies [tracetools.com]... especially since Comcast now owns AT&T) are all Tivo investors [com.com].

      • specially since Comcast and Cox (2 of the top cable companies [tracetools.com]... especially since Comcast now owns AT&T) are all Tivo investors

        Sure, but the way AT&T cable was built means it is 40+ different cable systems, right down to the CPE. So they need 40+ different TiVo boxes to get the same sort of features that DirecTV gets (high level of integration so you don't need to tell the TiVo what channes you do/don't get, and so it never misses a channel change, and so it can record mroe the

        • While you have a point, my guess is that most people aren't interested in spending $200+ for something that appears at the outset to be roughly equivalent to what they get with a $50 VCR.

          Plus you get to pay either a high one-time fee or a moderately high monthly fee for the service.

          In other words, the price point is too high for a lot of people and that affects penetration.

          'Course if you do have a Tivo you'll find that it changes the whole way you watch TV. I didn't believe it until I tried it.

    • I don't own a PVR because of the entire media industry. I watched the RIAA and MPAA erode my freedoms, harrass students, and make most forms of entertainment virtually mind-numbingly boring. Take cable, for example, if I want to watch content that may or may not be entertaining I must also watch commercials and often be subject to product placement within my favorite shows and other forms of brainwashing. I think its all wrong. So I cancelled my cable and don't watch TV anymore. I rarely go to the thea

  • Don't you love spin ? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tmark ( 230091 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @12:00AM (#5534342)
    The headline suggests that recall of ads is the same whether or not someone is fast-forwarding through it. Yet the bulk of the actual article details the statistical problems with the drawing of this conclusion, as well as the likelihood that at the fastest speeds, it's highly unlikely there's anything close to meaningful recall.

    Of course, the majority of readers who find the headline somehow compatible with their world view will go on and on about it ...

  • I'll say it again... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by vanyel ( 28049 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @12:01AM (#5534346) Journal
    ...if an advertiser want me to watch their ads, they ought to make their ads worth watching.

  • Next up: ads designed for fast-forward mode (Score:5, Funny)

    by jbuhler ( 489 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @12:01AM (#5534348) Homepage
    Some subway systems have ads on their tunnel walls that are meant to be viewed at the speed of a moving train. In the future, perhaps advertisers targeting Tivo users will buy an extra-long commercial slot to play a greatly slowed-down version of their regular ad that appears normal when fast-forwarded.

    Of course, Tivo will immediately counter with a fast-fast-forward mode for such ads, which will be met with even more slowed-down spots, and so on...

    • With the current TiVo, you can FF at up to 60x. So for 30 seconds, you'd need to buy a HALF HOUR of airtime. That's not a spot, that's an infoommercial... and good luck buying one in prime time!

      Besides, what's the point, if retention is the same?

      Personally, I already knew (anecdotally) what P&G found. I had noticed that I was more aware of what was being advertised after I got my TiVo. A little common sense made it clear why: I'm paying close attention to the screen during the FF. Ever see the "M

    • In the future, perhaps advertisers targeting Tivo users will buy an extra-long commercial slot to play a greatly slowed-down version of their regular ad that appears normal when fast-forwarded.

      This came out years ago.

      For about a year before I owned a ReplayTV, I was taping everything I watched (I'd work long hours, back when stocks fell out of the sky in the mid-late 90s). I remember seeing a commercial for the new VW Beetle, which was just a flower filling most of the screen, and spinning slowly.

    • I work in advertising and I've asked creative directors if they take "zipping" (the term most used for FFing commercials around here) into account when planning an ad; more long shots of product names or usage, and fewer jump cuts and scene changes so that the message remains coherent at FF speeds.

      They've all said "NO", but a couple indicated they thought it would be worth investigating. But since the spots are all evaluated by the client at 1x, it's hard to make arguments about 15x comprehension when you
      • They do take Mute into account, however. think of all those ads with excessive text on the screen - clearly to get the mute-button-wielding viewer's attention. (Of course I don't remember what those ads are, hence they're not that effective.)

  • 30 second skip hack (Score:4, Informative)

    by technoCon ( 18339 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @12:19AM (#5534432) Homepage Journal
    Yeah, but did P&G know about the select-play-select-3-0-select hack?

    (dunno what that means? google "tivo 30 second skip hack")

    I didn't like fast forwarding thru commercials because I had to pay too much attention. But now I just hit that little time-warp button 8 times and walla, i'm back to watching the show.

    Only time I watch commercials is when I recognize one I like and then instant-replay jump back to its start.
    • Yeah, but did P&G know about the select-play-select-3-0-select hack?

      Yes, but did P&G know about the right-left-right-left up-down-up-down A-B-A-B select-start hack? Oh, wait, you weren't talking about Street Fighter?
    • Yeah, except that unless you're really fast at noticing an ad's about to start, you miss the first several seconds after the ads finish. For a few shows, it might matter.

      -Graham
      • That's why you learn "the dance".

        "forward" "forward" "forward" "forward" (30 seconds each).

        Oops... in the show already! "back" "back" (8 seconds each). Ahh, tail of the last commercial.

        It's very nice that the two skip buttons have different skip lengths. I do that dance at every commercial break. Very fun.

      • As the other guy said, you rewind using the skip-back-8-seconds feature. The end result is the ability to skip two to five minutes of commercials in four or five seconds.

        One thing we've noticed is that some shows no longer have constant length commercial breaks. You get used to hitting "skip" 4 times for a 2 minute break, then they throw in a 1:30 break instead and you overshoot by 30 seconds. That takes a lot more "skip back" presses to reset.

    • Voila (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Merk ( 25521 )

      It's french. It means basically "there it is". When used as an interjection in English it is used to call attention to something [reference.com]. It is not walla. Though, I guess if you're part of the "freedom fries" crowd you need a new word... Hmm... maybe "Freedomla!"

      Anyhow, back to that 30 second skip button. I use mine so often I'm surprised the decal on the button hasn't come off. The only annoyance is that most commercials aren't 4 minutes, some are 3, some are 2, some are even 3 1/2. Luckily when I go

  • These researchers are concentrating their effort on what crap - to study who fast-forwards what when and why? No wonder we have not cured cancer, or sent men and women to the moon again since 1972. This useless research serves NOTHING except Proctor & Gamble wastefulness. I will not buy any of their products now

    Crap like this makes me want to scream at the lab. I slave for my sh*thead supervisor, and this is what others get paid to research?! I hope all they die in trafic accident.
    • Man, you need a new job.

      We haven't cured cancer because we don't know how. Even moreso than in writing software, cancer cannot be cured simply by throwing money and man-years at it.

      We haven't gone back to the moon because, really, we don't have a reason to go. It's a risky, irradiating trip, and getting used to LEO inside the Van Allen belts is enough technological achievement for the moment (Though we should be back on the moon by 2013, thanks to Europe and China.)

      Crap like this makes me want to scre

  • 2 words (Score:2, Insightful)

    by cyrax777 ( 633996 )
    Product Placement.
    • Advertising Revenue Model.

      It's not like we haven't [slashdot.org] seen [chaparraltree.com] this [businessweek.com] before [50megs.com]. Remember those shows back in the 60's? Maybe not, perhaps (like me) you werent born yet. However, the revenue model for advertising requires a "blank spot" to allow affiliated stations to do localized adverts, and to allow for updated advertising (ie, more income) on repeat showings, and syndicated programs (we're talking years and years of potential advertising income from a single TV show).

      Consequently, this leaves the "ad spot" model

  • When you're fast forwarding through commercials, you still have to pay attention to them. A Tivo doesn't completely eliminate commercials, it just makes them less intrusive and less annoying.

    Also, the author's comment regarding triple fast forward is of limited relevance. The faster you FF, the more nimble you have to be in order to avoid going too far and needing to backtrack. It's not reasonable to assume that everyone can FF commercials at full FF speed.

    The author also doesn't acknowledge the possibili
  • Since TiVo viewers are already paying close attention to the screen, advertisers could get their message across by displaying the product/deal their pitching as a still on part of the screen. A few seconds of seeing "This Show Sponsored by Chex Cereal" on the bottom of the screen during a fast forward would be, I think, more effective than 30 seconds of pitch wherein they rarely even mention the product until the very end anyway.

    --
    This post sponsored by Caffeine.
  • At the first 2 clicks of ffw (which are 2x and 30x) on the Tivo you can easily make out everything that's going on. Three clicks (60x) reduces most commercial breaks to 2-3 seconds. Even though you have to pay careful attention at that speed to get the resume right (personally my youthful reaction time is too fast for the auto-backup that Tivo does, so I have to wait an extra beat) I still have little or no idea what the skipped commercials were. Using 30s skip is about the same unless you hit it really

  • Sometimes, I actually want to watch commericals... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Yort ( 555166 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @02:31AM (#5534904)
    Okay, so am I the only one who ever actually *wants* to watch commercials? Only very rarely, of course, but a small (very small) subset of commercials are entertaining. The Apple one with Vern Troyer and the tall bball player, for example. And my fiancee makes me stop any time the Sprint commercial with the dachshounds is on, and laughs histerically at it every time.

    Incidentally, I just realized that we've since purchased two Sprint PCS cell phones. Hmmm...

    Anyway, I think this is just a challenge to marketers and ad-makers: make interesting commericials. I mean, come on - some of those commercials are just *bad*. And not the good, I'll remember it because it was so bad, bad. I'm talking *bad*. Some days it saddens me to think that there is actually someone who got paid to sign off and give the "ok" to a certain commercial. Oh well.

    Never use a big word when a dimunitive one will suffice.


  • What you are seeing here are merely volleys in a price negotiation. Don't mistake it for reality. The last thing *anybody* - advertisers, networks, clients - wants is for media delivery to be accurately measured.

    (rant on)

    All advertising rates are based on The Big Lie, and anything that interferes with this shared revenue-producing delusion is summarily dropped or compromised out of existance.

    Audit bureaus came up with the idea of actually counting the number of magazines shipped and then publishing the reports. Magazines then came up with what they called "pass along readership" where they make arbitrary guesses that more than one person reads a single issue. Agencies went along with it, because if clients knew the truth they wouldn't know what the hell to do, and when they don't know what to do they stop spending money.

    If I recall correctly, 'People Magazine' was saying that they had a pass-along readership of 18. As in 18 people read every issue because, by their logic, 'People' sat in a lot of doctor's office waiting rooms.

    There have been many innovations in television measurement, including Nielsen boxes that measure whose watching a set based on their heat signature, but they've been quietly retired with mumbles about cost or privacy or whatever. They then continue to wildly massage the numbers in the process of projecting truly aweful diary and box data to national viewership.

    The fact is that the livelyhood of networks, magazines, outdoor ads, agencies, and the marketing departments at clients is supported by wasted dollars, and your safe bet is on any technology that allows this waste to continue. Anything that threatens to be both accurate an ubiquitous will never see the light of day.

    (rant off)

    So I read the story like this:

    "Researchers in the marketing department of the largest advertising spender in the world have recently declared that despite incontrovertable evidence that people are fast-forwarding through the commercials it took them quite a long time to think up, they actually remember them despite the lack of sound and their carefully-crafted characters running around like time-lapse ants. So despite this incontrovertable evidence, there is fortunately no reason to cut their budgets, fire their agency and lay them all off. When reached for comment, their advertising agency agreed with them a full fifteen percent, which coincidentaly was the amount of their fee."

    --------

  • They haven't controlled for a possible variable: maybe this just means that TiVo users are smarter than everyone else.

  • So basically it's like compression. The same amount of information is conveyed with much less data.

    Or maybe we just weren't watching commercials at all.

  • These articles just keep coming, talking about how even though we are substituting a pay service with a free one the companies who own the pay service keep making the same profits.. I just don't really buy it. I haven't bought a CD in about 5 years, save 1 or 2 rare cds that I couldn't find mp3s of, even in my well connected IRC world. If I fast forward commercials on tivo and recognize them, the recognition only takes place because I've seen the commercials before. For me, I'll bet this study would fai

  • Blipverts (Score:2, Redundant)

    by toriver ( 11308 )
    Next stage will probably be the "Blipverts" from Max Headroom...
  • Uh..Oh.. I hope we don't get those funky blipverts. ...Mind you it'll reduce unemployment!

  • TiVo could make ads even better (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rjwoodhead ( 112122 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @08:37AM (#5535637) Homepage
    I've suggested to TiVo a couple of times that they make a minor tweak to their software and publish a protocol that lets advertisers mark (using one of the vertical blank lines) the frames that constitute the start of a commercial and the important frames.

    Then as I FF (I use the second level) through the commercial break, instead of seeing random frames from the commercial, I'll see the frames the advertiser wants me to see. And if I hit play, TiVo will know where to rewind to in order to show me the commercial that interested me.

    Everyone wins; I don't waste any time (FF speed is the same as before) watching commercials that don't interest me. Advertisers get a chance to interest me. And TiVo gets a valuable new income stream -- market research. They learn, for example, that families with 43 year old white males rarely are interested in douche ads during Farscape.

    Taking this a step further, future TiVo devices could shuffle the ads, replacing ads that it is clear that my family won't be interested in with ones that we might be, sort of what google does with their adwords.

    No downside for us in this. The zip through the commercials time isn't changed. Because let us face it, what we hate are not commercials, but commercials we are not interested in.

    As a side note, one downside of the TiVo FF (even when not at fastest speed) is that I tend to miss ads for upcoming programs that might interest me. This would really help with that.

  • TV? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by EvilTwinSkippy ( 112490 )
    You primatives still watch Television?

    I haven't had a television signal in my home for almost a year. Whenever I go oever a relative's house you see them basked in the glow of the great american fireplace.

    "Anyone want to go for a bear?"

    Silence, stirring...

    "Guys this is a re-run of a show I didn't care to watch in the first place."

    Angry grunting that I'm interrupting their show.

    "Say can we at least mute the commercials?"

    Objects thrown. Cat's hiss. The room grows darker.

    • "Anyone want to go for a bear?"

      What kind of bear? Do your friends live near a forest? A zoo? A bar populated by large hairy gay men [jeffglover.com]?

    • You primatives still watch Television?

      I haven't had a television signal in my home for almost a year. Whenever I go oever a relative's house you see them basked in the glow of the great american fireplace.

      "Anyone want to go for a bear?"

      And so you now waste your time drinking beer and reading articles and commentary about TV commercials and TV recording devices? If you don't watch television, why would this article interest you in the slightest? Is your sole purpose in this discussion to make superc
  • I think the entire issue of commercial skipping has been around since VCR's got the ability to do visual fast forward through commercial breaks.

    On a lot of the newer VCR's (I have a Mitsubishi HS-U595), you can press one button and fast-forward the playback in fixed-time increments; my VCR can do it between 30 and 180 seconds in 30-second increments. The 150 and 180 second skip modes are enough to fast-forward through station breaks in a small fraction of the normal time; you suddenly realize how much less
  • As a Tivo user I find this to be a load of bullshit, but if the advertisers believe it, that's fine with me. It'll just delay their counter-measures.

    Long-term, though, it will become irrelevant. I like my Tivo, but before I even bought it, I knew it wasn't forever. Someday we'll all be using P2P to share edit scripts so that only a handful of people go through the trouble of fast-forwarding through ads, and the rest of us will have fully-automated ad-skipping, without even the blipverts.

    By the time t

  • teevee's dirty little secret (Score:3, Interesting)

    by The_Rook ( 136658 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @11:50AM (#5536708)
    of course, what teevee execs may be most afraid of is teevee's inefficiency as an advertising medium. the article quoted an expert about how retention rates are low to begin with. if everyone who watched teevee switched to using tivos and never watched commercials again, and if advertisers don't see any effect in their sales, it may be a solid demonstration that teevee ads just aren't worth the money.
  • One thing that I've found interesting is that, despite the fact that I have the Tivo set up to blip forward 30 seconds to skip ads, is that something in an ad will catch my eye in the fraction of a second that it's onscreen before I blip forward and I'll go back and watch it.

    It doesn't happen a lot, maybe once or twice an evening, but it kind of surprised me that I did it at all.

    What's more, I still recognize most of the ads that I blip over from seeing them on "live" TV. I guess TV advertising is so r

  • ok, bear with me, there's lots of room on digital cable. when a program is being recorded to a device the commercial gets dropped and instead you end up with a simple 5 second image/logo at the beginning and end of a show saying "The episode of Ducktales brought to you by the good folks at Texaco"

    Those sorts of ads always seem to stick with me more. I can still remember a miniseries about George Washington that was on NBC back in the day that only had ads for GM and they were really short ads. So now wh
  • People are not robots that buy what they are told.

    Ads do three different thigns:

    Pay for the show/otherwise amuse us.

    Give Name recognition to a product

    If a service/product is new/unknown, it informs the public about it.

    Only the last service can not be done via fast-forward viewing. Frankly it is so rarely used that is not that big a deal..

    Yes, advertisers claim that a "good" ad will get people to buy coke over pepsi or whatever, but that is bullcrap. People might try it once, but no one, not ev

  • Advertisers: tivo has no effect whatsoever on my willingness to buy what you're selling. I am sure I will buy even more of it now that I skip^H^H^HFF the ads.

    Yup, no effect at all!

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