SONICblue Hits the Auction Block 214
turkeywrap writes "Looks like there's no hope for SONICblue, makers of ReplayTV and Rio MP3 players. An agreement with D&M holdings (parent company of audio equipment makers Denon) fell through, so now a bankruptcy court will hold an auction for both of the main business units, ReplayTV and Rio, on April 15. Glad I bought my tivo."
Re:Tivo (Score:5, Informative)
Depends on if TiVo wants to continue existing or not.
Both Scientific American and Motorola are developing PVRs for cable set top box's. And these two companies have huge existing relationships with the cable companies (as in - they sell virtually everything the cable companies need to do business). If you have a cable STB right now take a look at it - it's almost certainly made by one of these two companies (General Instruments are OEM'd Motorola boxes).
AOL is also working on the Mystero box or whatever crappy name it has. Dish Network has their own PVR.
None of these are comparable to TiVo on a feature basis, and often they're missing really big features, but to a lot of people all that matters is price -- and all of them beat TiVo on that because the companies can afford to give the hardware away for free and charge an additional monthly service charge to pay it back as well as pay for providing service.
So yeah, TiVo does have reason to compete. Lots of them.
Re:TiVo (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Tivo (Score:4, Informative)
Tivo really needs to compete since PVR functionality is being wrapped up in other services like satellite and digital cable. Why pay extra for Tivo when your media provider can just roll it up for you. They become another grease spot on the "Al Gore Memorial Information Super Highway".
Re:What about the ReplayTV users? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, it's not like they've been busy... (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, SonicBlue never really supported any of these products. They bought a fantastic HD-based car MP3 player (empeg), and promptly killed it off -- even as major manufacturers were starting to integrate MP3 playback into cd players (and now, finally, cd-changers).
They started selling the Rio Receiver, but at too high a price point, and they never updated the software. And now, there are at least three other commercial MP3 receivers from "big companies" (onkyo, phillips, and motorola), but all of 'em are (get this) even MORE expensive than the Rio Reciever was. SonicBlue could have undercut the competition, released some software upgrades (there's a great open source movement on that front that they could have tapped into), and kicked major ass.
All in all, it's been a disappointing ride for customers like me. I'm really glad that the Receiver is so open (people have re-written just about every part of it except the HomePNA kernel module). At this point, I think the best thing that could happen would be for the original empeg/receiver engineers to buy the car and home receivers back and open-source the hardware. Get a flourescent screen, better CPU (for high-rate Ogg decoding), and even cooler open-source client/server software.
But probably some other company will buy the rights and bury them.
ReplayTVs are still selling on ebay right now (Score:3, Informative)
Can ReplayTVs be programmed like a VCR to record like TIVO does? I guess it's not a total loss. On ebay however, they're being advertised as LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION!
assets (IANAL) (Score:3, Informative)
Don't forget GoVideo (Score:5, Informative)
GoVideo® D2730 Networked DVD [sonicblue.com] - World's First Networked DVD Player!
"The GoVideo Networked DVD Player is a high end, slim-line Progressive Scan DVD player, and is the first player of its kind to be able to stream video files through a wireless network to a consumer electronics component. The Networked DVD Player works with either a wired PCMCIA Ethernet Adapter (included) or an optional PCMCIA 802.11b Wireless Network Card. The D2730 can also stream MP3 and WMA audio files and JPEG image files, as well as MPEG1 and MPEG2 video files."
Yes, I can roll my own (even stylishly, with a Shuttle XPC [shuttle.com]. Yes, I can do so with a cool Linux distro (can't remember the couple I've examined off the top of my head - anyone? Bueller?). But I sure as hell can't do it for $250, which was the SRP for this unit.
Re:ReplayTVs are still selling on ebay right now (Score:2, Informative)
With the Replay, you can manually record a show. Of course, every time I use it, I feel dirty. It's that same sort of dirty that comes from touching my VCRs.
Too Bad (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I wish... (Score:3, Informative)
Weird. That's just what I do with my TiVos. It's an old troll to use this against TiVos. If you don't like suggestions, turn them off. But suggestions will *never* waste hard drive space or be recorded instead of something you *chose* to have recorded. Bah.
purchasing Replay, one being D&M
Did you not even read the article synopsis?
Re:I wish... (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, the D&M deal fell through. It may be that D&M picks up the assets at auction later this month, but until the auction happens things are still up in the air. Until then, we just have the word of ReplayTV that the guides will last until the end of this month. After that, it's completely up in the air.
That is, if we just stick with their service. I haven't done a single bit of hacking on my Replay, but I would imagine we'd be able to get some code written to get SOME sort of guide working.... does anyone have any idea if a project like that is underway?
BTW, the 30 second skip feature has been there since the beginning. Love that feature.
Regarding TiVO, a couple of things:
The TiVo only records on educated guesses using unused space on the device.
It has USB ports for ethernet (and other stuff, I would guess..haven't looked into that too much) so program guides can be set through the net. This was a great thing for me, because I have one of the original ReplayTVs and didn't have an mods for Ethernet.
The new 4.0 software upgrade will support wireless USB ethernet devices. The (cough) $99 HomeMedia option will allow streaming MP3s and pictures to be sent from your PC, and will allow sharing of programs between multiple TiVos in the house. The first upgrade costs $99, the upgrades for additional TiVos are $49 each.
Anyway to the original poster, bottom line, if you can wait, just wait until this Replay thing sorts itself out. It'll only be a couple of more weeks. If ReplayTV survives, find a friend with one and check it out. Find a friend with a TiVo and check that out too.
But whatever happens, get a PVR. These things are freakin' awesome.
Re:What about the ReplayTV users? (Score:3, Informative)
I don't know of any other way to receive program data, so I think we ReplayTV owners will be SOL for program guides. It'll still function as a VCR like device...I think. I'm not sure about that though. I've never let the program guide run out or be erased to check.
Re:What if... (Score:5, Informative)
The TiVo community forum [tivocommunity.com] is a great resource for all thing TiVo. Having just got a Directv Tivo box (which is awesome, by the way), I intend to be spending alot of time there, learning as much as possible.
Re:Tivo (Score:4, Informative)
Actually you have it backwards. Echostar has far, far more 500-series receivers out there than there are DirecTiVo's.
Makes great sense since there's a kluge with an IR Blaster you need to do with Tivo
Not quite true. TiVo's have a serial port on them that can control DirecTV receivers (and some cable boxes - notably the Motorola DCT-2000 series) if the receiver has a "low speed data port".
Oh... and did you note the "DirecTiVo" bit above? Yup - the PVR capabilites for DirecTV are licensed from TiVo. At one point it the boxes were still controlled by TiVo, but it's flip flopped - all service and billing is now done directly through DirecTV and DTV pays TiVo a licensing fee for the hardware and software.
Re:TiVo (Score:2, Informative)
google hits on "TiVo": 451,000
google hits on "Kleenex": 164,000
You lose
Re:What if... (Score:5, Informative)
They are considered creditors.
Correct so far.
Of the lowest class (which is pretty much where creditors are anyway in bankruptcy court).
Wrong. Creditors come ahead of the equity owners of the company. Unsecured creditors, which is what the customers essentially are, are in a poor position, but they do not have the last tit -- that is reserved for the lucky, lucky investors (i.e. the people whose money was just pissed away). You might know them as "shareholders" or "the rich" or "pension plans" or "your 401(k)" or "mutual funds".
Most creditors are lucky to see ten cents on the dollar after bankruptcy court,
Depends on the company and the type of creditor, but secured creditors can do quite well in bankruptcy. Sometimes, it is groups of creditors that force a company's hand and put a firm (or individual) through an involuntary bankruptcy. While you may feel thoroughly evil when you do such a thing (I did this once), it can really save a creditor's bacon to shut down a company rather than letting it flounder under a shitty business plan or under shitty management.
so it may be that you'd get a few more months or weeks of service and that'd be it.
Probably right. Two types of bankruptcy exist for businesses -- Chapter 11 (reorg) and Chapter 7 (liquidation). Chapter 7 is death city. Sell it all, pay creditors according to a plan that the bankruptcy trustee devises and that the bankrutcy judge approves. Chapter 11 lets the company convert debt into equity (usually) and it lets the company shitcan some contracts that it has, reaffirm others, and basically try to salvage the cashflow positive business segments while jettisoning the shit. This tends to help out customers, employees, and creditors. Some suppliers and customers and equity owners get killed, but the net disruptive effect to the economy is much reduced versus killing off the whole company in a liquidation.
Depends on how the judge rules...
And what the trustee's plan is. Ans what the creditor's committee comes up with.
with the obvious issue that pissing off your customers is not a good way to get out of bankruptcy.
Au contraire. If you can jettison certain contracts, including money-losing ones with customers (which means throwing some consumers overboard) you might actually save the rest of the business. This results in a more stable foundation for serving your other customers in profitable segments, and increasing their willingness to do business with you. Businesses don't want every customer, they only want profitable customers. My business fires clients all the time and I note significantly that we are nowhere near bankruptcy. Sonicblue can do that in bankruptcy and help themselves out tremendously. There may be some blowback, but it will fade. Plus, blowback beats the hell out of destroying the company to try to keep an unprofitable business segment afloat.
Based on that I'd be surprised if any judge would invalidate the lifetime service option.
It's really not up to the judge. It is up to the trustee. The "lifetime service option" is just a contract. Sonic Blue will be able to determine which contracts it wants to void and which it must honor. I bet they toss the replay tv business. Then, the "value" of those services becomes an unsecured debt that goes to the end of the creditor line. The judge will then rule on a plan for sonic blue that the trustee comes up with, subject to input from the creditors (and it is unlikely that the replay tv people will collectively or individually have much say). I doubt that the replay tv people will get much love under these circumstances.
Don't get your hopes up -- you are likely looking at an unpleasant screwing and you won't even get a reach around. I'm not being a troll here, it's just that you need to be realistic about what is going to happen. Bankruptcy is not a place for rose-colored glasses.
GF.
Interesting... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:A good reason to buy Linux based appliances (Score:3, Informative)
I like to compare TiVo to the Apple Macintosh. Both are closed systems with a very large user dev/hack community. The fact that they have an underlying open source base doesn't change anything.
Re:TiVo (Score:2, Informative)
wg
Re:Which business units? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I wish... (Score:1, Informative)
"The TiVo only records on educated guesses using unused space on the device."
Hogwash! Tivo records in several modes including:
1) Recording based on guide information (one time, season pass, or "wish list" keyword searches). This is the way most people record. If the guide data changes (i.e. - the program moves to another night), Tivo will record the program at the new time/date.
2) This is like VCR mode. Set the time and date and it records. I NEVER record this way because the guide data is so reliable.
3) Tivo suggestions. Tivo will try to guess what programming to record based on your "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" voting in a particular program. I leave mine on, because it never preempts programming I have specifically selected, and it never uses up disk space for programming I have selected.
Re:Tivo (Score:2, Informative)
If either of these companies wished to build a true PVR, they'd do well to license Tivo software for their boxes. It would bypass a lot of development time, letting them get a box out the door long before their competitor with a polished, well developed UI. With the two way cable networks, they could completely bypass the need for a phone line (you did know those set top boxes could spy on you, right?)
What these companies are building are "thin client PVR's", where almost all the intelligence is at the head end, where it can't be tampered with. There's plenty of comments out there about how this approach sucks, though potentially there's some advantages to it as well (see my history). Of course, to do it right they'd want a DirecTivo type approach, where the box simply recorded a pre-encoded digial stream (keeps client costs down), but that mean the would need to broadcast a digitized version of analog channels as well, which consumes bandwidth; the best solution would be to reduce the number of analog channels, but then that means TV's w/o a set top box get fewer channels (not a bad thing in cable co's mind likely).
To bad congress/FCC can't legislate a Digital cable standard so TV's could come equiped from the factory.
Re:Tivo (Score:2, Informative)
I have a ReplayTV and it's great not to hear "...Honey, what's on this Tape?". Real Men Don't Use Labels!!! Now it's just check the menu and watch. The OnDemand part gives you one unit to connect and use just like the satellite solutions. The simpler the better.
The issue arises when the content provider controls the playback device. That's what got Replay into trouble. It sided with the consumer in all different ways. From automatic commercial deletion to opening their interfaces. DVarchive is a great example of this on SourceForge. Why hack the Replay system when you can just offload the content to a PC and access it there.
I hope I can continue to use my ReplayTV the way it runs now. If it dies, I still have a 40Gig drive out of it.
And that's not all (Score:3, Informative)
Diamond Multimedia [diamondmm.com], who was once one of the larger producers of mainstream video cards,
and S3 [s3.com], the unforgettable yet forgettable video chipset.