Would Free Music Sell Cars? 377
rhfrommn writes "An opinion piece on news.com says the old method of selling music CDs is doomed and suggests the best new method is to give away the content. No more 'piracy' or 'rights management' to worry about! The author discusses ad based models, giving music away as a promotion (buy a car, get 1000 hours of music free type stuff) and other methods. All based on cheap hardware like MP3 players as the new medium to replace CD."
Too late (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too late (Score:2, Insightful)
the future is to sing about Pepsi and Ford.
-J
Re:Too late (Score:2)
Re:Too late Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Huh? You mean they won't let us listen to the radio? Or maybe you mean they won't let us change the channel.. because you know if we don't listen to the commercials on the radio, that's stealing.
Re:Too late Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Too late (Score:4, Funny)
Ra Dio
The opposite is much better (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm sure more people would fall for that
Daniel
Re:The opposite is much better (Score:5, Insightful)
1000 hours * $15 is $15,000. Amazingly, it probably is actually better the original way
Re:The opposite is much better (Score:2)
It's like a delayed payment scheme where you actually get stuff every time you make a payment
Brilliant idea, I say.
Daniel
Columbia House is the answer! (Score:2)
Of course, you'd continue to get (and be expected to pay for) CDs for as long as you own your car...
But would it be good? (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember getting free music with a McDonald's meal once. One of those cardboard punch-out disposable phonograph records with the catchy menu jingle recorded on it. And if the class sings it successfully through to the end, you win like a lot of money or something.
Catchy, but not exactly chart-topping stuff.
Re:But would it be good? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:But would it be good? (Score:4, Informative)
I want a
Big Mac, Mc Blt, a Quarter-Pounder with some cheese, Fillet-o-Fish, a hamburger, a cheeseburger, a Happy Meal, Mcnuggets, tasty golden french fries, regular and larger size and salads, chef or garden, or a chicken salad oriental, Big Big Breakfast, Egg Mcmuffin, hot hotcakes and sausage, Maybe biscuits, bacon, egg and cheese and sausage, danish, hashbrown too and for dessert hot apple pies and sundaes three varieties, A soft serve cone, three kinds of shakes, and chocolately-chip cookies and to drink a Coca-Cola, Diet Coke, an orange drink, a Sprite, A coffee, a lowfat milk also an orange juice, I love Mcdonald's good time great taste, And I get this all at one place!
I beleive the jingle was released in conjunction with a $1 million prize. If you received a copy of the jingle in your Sunday paper where the musicians made it through the entire song without messing up, you won.
BTW: Was it McBLT or McDLT....I find references to both and I can't remember...
Am I dating my self?
Re:But would it be good? (Score:2)
It's funny, whenever I sing this song (and I can only get to the chicken salad oriental), nobody recognizes it all. I wonder if it's the age group of people I work with...
I usually sing it McDLT. Although I don't remember if they had a McDLT.
Re:But would it be good? (Score:2, Insightful)
It was basically a quarter-pounder with lettuce & tomato.
Re:But would it be good? (Score:2)
Re:But would it be good? (Score:2)
Yeah, I remember the burger. It's funny too because nobody I talk to ever remembers this burger either and the seemingly market flop it was.
Re:But would it be good? (Score:2, Interesting)
But do you remember this one? (Score:2, Funny)
Hamburgers in your face
French fries between your toes
Dill pickles up your nose
and don't forget those chocolate shakes
Made from polluted lakes
McDonalds is your..... kind of place
There are other [inthe80s.com] versions as well.
Re:But would it be good? (Score:2)
Big Mac McDLT a Quater Pounder with some cheese Filet-o-Fish a Hamburger a Cheeseburger a Happy MealMcNuggets tasty golden Fries, regular or larger size, a salad (Chef or Garden, or a Chicken Salad Oriental)
Sadly, I don't remember the rest. I
Re:But would it be good? (Score:2)
Big mac, mc blt,
a quarter pounder with some cheese,
filet of fish,
a hamburger,
a cheeseburger,
a happy meal,
mcnuggets, tasty golden fries,
regular or larger sizes,
and salads chef or garden
or a chicken salad oriental
big mcmuffins, hot hot cakes and saugsage,
maybe biscuits bacon eggs, and sausage?
i love mcdonalds good time great taste,
can I get this all at one place?
If the record sang back, "You won a million dollars", then you won.
It
I guess it's a start (Score:2)
why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Then why am I going to have to buy a $30k car to get my music..
This is nothing new... your still "selling" the music
I'm still paying or going through more hoops then kazaa or friends to get it.. then its not worth it.
I don't understand..
Re:why? (Score:2, Insightful)
I mean realy, Pay for music... that's rediculous. Next thing you know we'll be expected to pay for food, gas, and books. Just because someone went through all the trouble to produce something, package it, and make it available to me, dosn't mean I should actually have to GIVE them something in exchange for it. That's not what America's about people...
Re:why? (Score:2, Insightful)
giving it away with cars? (Score:3, Funny)
1. - Does it go fast?
2. - Can I afford it without having to sell an organ?
3. - What kind of stereo does it have?
You forgot one... (Score:3, Funny)
will it get me laid?
Re:You forgot one... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:giving it away with cars? (Score:2)
Same model works great for banks and toasters (Score:3, Insightful)
The analogy to the coal story is very interesting, but its just like radio: the discs go to radio stations, who are paid to play certain songs. And while there may have been a cost savings for the central heating model, you know darn well that when the landlord controls the thermostat, you go cold. Its happened in countless apartments where we get a cold spell before "the heat is turned on" and all I could do was bundle up and shiver.
The same thing is happening with music. I get free music all the time in elevators and shopping malls and on radios. But it sucks, and leaves me cold.
Article text (Score:2, Insightful)
Music fans, seeking to justify this casual act of larceny, claim they're really supporting an economic boycott of a usurious and uncreative music industry. "Cybershoplifting," reply the record companies, seizing the opportunity to impose their opaque and onerous copyright schemes on the listening public.
While the battle rages on, piling up legal fees and taking the joy ou
Re:Article text (Score:2)
It is about as inane as mineral rights. The mineral wealth of a nation should belong to the people of a nation, not its elites. The same is true for any wealth, artistic, economic, etcetera.
By supporting the music industry, all you are doing is enforcing the serfdom of the artists themselves.
Most ridiculous thing I've heard (Score:5, Funny)
---
Vin Diesel
Re:Most ridiculous thing I've heard (Score:2)
Re:Most ridiculous thing I've heard (Score:2)
Maybe the dumbest thing I've ever heard (Score:5, Insightful)
Free content for all! (Score:5, Funny)
No more tinny-sounding RealPlayer broadcasts, this is high-quality stuff we're talking about. Free content for all! And the best thing is, the end-user hardware requirements are very inexpensive. I hear it's called 'radio' or something. Apparently people are working on actually sending video images in the same way. Imagine the possibilities!
Re:Free content for all! (Score:5, Interesting)
I know your post is meant as humor, but it reminded me of something I was thinking about on the way into work this morning.
I was listening to the radio and there was a song I liked - don't know the name, don't know by who. There was no DJ break at the time, and by the time there would be one, I would no longer be in the car
Now *THAT* would be something that I would like
When I hear a song
That way, music would become an impulse buy. Same way they leave the candy bars next to the cash register at the supermarket.
See/Hear it
oh yeah. that would be the way.
Hmmm. (Score:2)
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. Now this idea, like all those moments, will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
That was the equiv of a +1 mod from me, 'cept I am all out of points.
Re:Free content for all! (Score:3, Interesting)
What I usually do then is memorize a line or two and google for it next time I'm online.
God bless lyrics pages.
Re:Free content for all! (Score:3, Informative)
Well, if you'd had a DAB radio in your car (Digital Audio Broadcast) chances would be that you'd see the name of the artist and track scrolling along the little lcd screen on the front of the radio.
Also, if you had the number for that mobile service... where you dial it up and play in a few bars of the song, that would tell you what it was also.
Re: eMarker (Score:2)
I would doubt that some of the stations I listen to are on the system as they're independently owned (not part of the ClearChannel megacorp).
Seeing that it's just a timestamp, you'd think that any station should be able to handle it, as long as they retain good logs.
Luckily I've been able to call the station up in the past, and they've been able to tell me the song, but only if I can cal
Free music won't sell cars. (Score:4, Insightful)
I have gigs and gigsof MP3s but don't own a car.
Another twist... (Score:2)
I, for one, would love this. Maybe that is why McDonalds is rolling out WiFi?
Why does everyone ignore live music? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm sure I'm missing something, but why do artists need labels any more?
Re:Why does everyone ignore live music? (Score:2, Interesting)
They do not want to lose control of their golden goose.
Re:Why does everyone ignore live music? (Score:2)
However, is that true for non-major bands? For a little band that sells 50,000 copies or less of their album, how much do they really get from playing in 1000 seat arenas?
Re:Why does everyone ignore live music? (Score:2)
I find it very difficult to find sympathy for bands complaining that they can't make a living playing music.
Re:Why does everyone ignore live music? (Score:3, Interesting)
then again, i'm not out to make money... and neither are most people who make music like mine that i've ran into... although, being able to have my own studio would be the greatest thing ever.
hmm...
on second thought...my music HAS been used in avant-guarde performance art performed live, but tha
kraftwerk (Score:2)
/joeyo
It's About The Cartels Profits, not the Artists (Score:5, Insightful)
What you are missing are a few very important points that the media cartels, in their extraordinarilly disingenuous rhetoric regarding non-commerical copyright infringement by individuals, would very much like you not to notice:
In short, if it were about the artists well being, free(dom) music and media would be a slam dunk. It benefits everyone
It is interesting that those with such entitlement mindsets feel they should be able to earn money indefinitely (at least life+70 years) for one bit of work performed sometime in the past, while the rest of us accept that, if we wish to earn money, we must continue to work each day of our lives (weekends and vacation sometimes excepted). Given the profitability of, and real value offered by, live shows one must truly wonder why an artist, much less a publisher. would think they are entitled to proceeds from anything other than their live work. Four centuries of monopoly entitlements will, alas, do that to an industry and even a culture, to the detriment of nearly everyone (a few moghuls and poster children excepted)
Important points (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps I should have been more clear in my initial post. I understand and agree with everything you've said. But my point was that from the perspective of view of the artist, why would you want to sign on with a label, since everyone knows that the labels screw artists?
There's more (and less) to it than just recording (Score:2)
But I wonder if it really has to cost $500k to produce an album. How much did it cost Wilco to produce "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot?" According to this article [nsnews.com] it cost $300k. But according to this story [happyfunpundit.com], it only cost $85k.
The labels have until now had a cartel on album production, which has kept both production and distribution prices artificially high. So if you can cut production costs and cut distrib
Write off. (Score:2)
Sure, they'll "give" you 1000 hours of music but will write it off as an operating expense in the books. It's attempt at propping up the artificially high values they put on music.
As my Mother always said... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:As my Mother always said... (Score:2)
He's suggesting that somebody other than mp3.com (Who doesn't have access to the BIG names or talent), would do this, like SONY.
The payment plan (Score:4, Insightful)
But how will artists and their agents and lawyers get paid? This time we can turn for answers not to coal distribution, but to an industry much closer to musicians' homes: the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers. ASCAP licenses, collects and redistributes music royalties from music performance venues (like radio stations, concert halls and so on) to the artists. It determines who gets paid what by polling these venues to see whose music gets played and how often.
To determine reimbursement in an MP3 player world, a small sample of users could be invited periodically to voluntarily, and anonymously share their listening history stored in the player. Then, just as in the ASCAP model, payments collected from the music player distributors (Kia, the BSO and the like) would be split among the copyright owners. No fuss, no complexity and no secret CD police.
Makes a lot of sense to me. To get this off the ground, it only takes one company to tie up with some mp3 player makers. If it succeeds, others will be quick to jump on the bandwagon and the RIAA will be left wondering what hit them.
Re:The payment plan (Score:2)
Why 'company'? It seems to me like this could work equally well on an artist level. Of course it might take a few more artists, or at least a couple of really popular ones, to get the mp3 player manufacturers to move on it, but even a dozen artists will move many times faster than a single label.
For big acts only. (Score:4, Insightful)
This wouldn't work at all for bands on smaller independent labels, other non-pop genres (jazz, blues, etc). Reads like another big step toward musical homogenization to me.
Ummm okay... (Score:2)
You want a suggestion on how to modernize the music industry? It's simple: put more interesting content on the media.
Sound is FAR too easy to capture and distribute. Trying to lock that up is like trying to lock up light. Even if DRM is perfect in the eyes of the RIAA, garage bands can do their own redition of a song, free of restriction. As a matter of fact, that'd be in demand.
Provide more content on the CD, like a music video or interview with the artist. H
Re:Ummm okay... (Score:2)
But what quality will the music be? (Score:2)
The 1000 hours would be of of the type you wouldnt want in the first place, made up of muzak or *shudder* country and western.
Yeehaw! (Score:2)
Sell convenience, not content (Score:5, Insightful)
The other day I found myself at CompUSA paying $40 for Red Hat. Why on earth would I pay money for that when I can get an ISO and burn it for free?
In my case, it was because I was at a datacenter and needed to reinstall the system (the vendor forgot to install it). I could've either taken a trip back home (30 minutes), downloaded and burned a CD (an hour), and taken a trip back (30 minutes), or I could drop by CompUSA and pay for a copy (20 minutes). Savings to my client by paying for software? 1.75 billable hours.
If there's any hope in selling data as a retail product, it'll be in models that completely ignore the actual data on it.
There's my case (needed it quickly), but there are many others.
Some people just want to rummage through piles of stuff, find a gem, claim a prize. That whole Hunter/Scavenger instinct is still with us, you know.
Shopping at a record store is a social activity for many people -- something that's harder to do with a real person by a computer.
There have been many times that we browsed Blockbuster Video (yes, they suck, but that's a different story) in search of a movie and ended up there an entire hour because we became so engrossed in searching (and ended up with 3 or 4 movies by the end of it). A web site can offer the content, but seldom can it recreate that experience.
The content cartel should capitalize on this, because their current business model's days are numbered.
New Chevy slogan (Score:3, Funny)
hrmm.. (Score:2)
i never listen to it. the previous owner of the car installed all that crap. i bought the car to drive, and when you have one of the worlds best sounding motors(*1), drowning it out with music is a crime.
who buys a car based on the factory stereo, or the music that comes in the car ? shouldn't car buying revolve around performance, safety, and price ?
*1- S38B35 US spec, with catalyst
free music may not be such a great deal? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
that's what I want (Score:3, Insightful)
i like choosing my own music.
the future looks no better than the present (Score:2, Insightful)
Boggle (Score:3, Insightful)
When I buy a car, I care about the features of the car. Adding in stupid junk like 1000 hours of music is an annoyance, not something I would be happy about.
The key to selling music is selling it at a low enough price that people prefer the reliability and quality of purcahsed music to the hassle, unreliability, etc. of pirated music. It is truly as simple as that.
BAD IDEA.... (Score:3, Funny)
BMW - 1,000 Free hours of Kraftwork
Honda - 1,000 Free hours of SES
Cadillac - 1,000 Free hours of Elvis
NO NO NO....
Its .. (Score:2)
Do they really expect people to be that stupid ?
When I want to buy a car, I am much likely to look at
No, but not for the reason you might think.. (Score:2)
Now I find myself listening to alot of underground and indie stuff via peoples websites. Mp3.com rocks for this reason. Free music, by otherwise unknown bands. I love going somewhere and having somebody ask me who that band is, and turning them on to a new group.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
American Society (Score:2)
But then again, America is an impuslive nation. I know I talked to a few people that work in car sales and most people have no intention to buy a car when they visit. But they leave with a new car.
Is free music realy doing to make someone say, "Hey, this is worth it" I know if a salesman said s
not theft (Score:2)
1. In Canada this is perfectly legal [neil.eton.ca] to copy your friends CD for your own personal use.
2. In anyplace that doesn't have a similar law it's still not theft. It is piracy.
1000 hours of MP3s on DVD-ROM per car (Score:2)
Re:1000 hours of MP3s on DVD-ROM per car (Score:2)
Minority Interest Music (Score:2)
Short Run, Long Run (Score:2)
In many of these discussions, we take as given the current stock of music. Artists have already produced (and largely been compensated) for their music. But in the long-run, we need to consider how our proposed distribution system would support the creation of new music.
The standard arg
I don't want to buy a damned car! (Score:2)
Sell good mu
There's one problem - audiophiles (Score:3, Insightful)
Well you can, but not with a lossy encoding scheme such as MP3. There are plenty of people out there, myself included, who simply do not like( or cannot even abide )the warbly sound of lossy compression, and would resist phasing out of high-resolution audio formats.
If anything will replace the CD, it will be SACD or DVD-A, not mp3.
advertising ? (Score:2)
will it work for mp3 music ?
maybe...
but for what kind of music ? will some company sponsor the kind of music I want to hear ?
I can change (Score:5, Funny)
People are missing the real opportunity (Score:2)
There's a tonne of money to be made on music, I don't know why people don't see this. Record companies should sell MP3s for a dollar each. That simple. I would pay $1 (and stop using Kazaa) for high speed xfers, no more broken downloads, consistent file naming, good quality recordings. If the web page let you preview songs and had buttons for "Show similar music" as well as a Top40 list by music type people would come. How many times have you heard a song you love on the radio and not known what to sea
More ranting... (Score:2)
And furthermore, why does the RIAA not allow this model? Why should they when they can use their monopoly to prevent change and stay smug in the current model? Why charge $1 for a song when they can charge you $15 for it and bundle 9 other songs you don't like? Why should they since they want music to be by subscription so they can milk you on a monthly basis rather than a fair trade: pay for what you need? Why should they take a risk on something new that people want when they can use monopoly and poli
The business model of the future. (Score:2)
CDs Aren't Going To Die (Score:2, Interesting)
That makes no sense (Score:2)
You don't seem to understand the underlying (Score:2)
No o
One thing to consider (Score:2)
Coal stealing? (Score:2, Interesting)
Sorry, the coal-stealing analogy is a little off.
In my opinion, being a recording artist is going to be closer to being a visual artist. There are tons of similarities - you usually have a single talented 'artist' that creates for the joy of creating, and little if any support structure to get the 'art' out there. Most people have very selective tastes in what they like, and collect a little bit to decorate their life with.
Fine artists have a hell of a time supporting themselves making gallery art,
it's not 'giving away the content' (Score:3, Insightful)
The car dealer/builder who bundles a DVD chock full o' crap still has to pay something to the record company so that they can then distribute the scraps to the artist. They dealer prob gets a much reduced price, but not 'free'.
The dealer damn sure isn't going to eat that cost. It WILL be passed back to the consumer.
The $15,000 car now costs $16,5000. You just won't see it on the sticker.
The music industry won't die (Score:3, Insightful)
I have no doubt that on paper there will eventually be a point where the RIAA, or some other agency, will say that they've lost more money to piracy than they've taken in. Maybe they already say that, I don't really pay much attention to them. They will still be profitable though because losses due to piracy don't actually cost them any money from the balance sheet that matters.
There are some tangible costs associated with being the music industry, and the way they maximize their profits is by minimizing investments where they don't get a large return on their investment. This means that unless you happen to look and sound a lot like what's already selling in a given demographic you won't get signed. Bad for consumers who don't fit into whatever the music industry is currently pushing (and slowly evolving) but that's business.
So what do you do if you're an artist who can't get signed? Go independant. There's room for the independant music industry. There's probably a lot of money to be made for the first company that gets it: Give people what they want. So sell music on mp3 with optional CDs or vinyl. Don't worry about piracy, you don't lose money from that and maybe you'll make an additional sale. The artists won't get rich as the most popular RIAA artists but guess what? There's no gaurantee anywhere that you'll get rich regardless of your ambition, talent or luck.
Radio (Score:3, Insightful)
Solving the Wrong Problem (Score:5, Informative)
Most musicians by far make a living with paying gigs, not CD sales. Recording contracts are carefully structured so that all expenses come out of the artist's share, which ends up being zero. CD sales benefit musicians by giving them exposure which translates into gigs. A musician gets this same exposure whether someone buys a CD, listens to a song on the radio or downloads it from Kazaa.
Replacing the entire record industry with free distribution wouldn't deprive musicians of anything except the opportunity to let the record companies control their careers. And as an added bonus, it would mean one less source of big-money whispering into the ears of lawmakers.
Re:Is it allowed? (Score:3, Interesting)
First go read about the Sherman Anti-Trust act [freeadvice.com], and then familiarize yourself with the concept of a "loss-leader" [investopedia.com].
Re:do it like the dead painters. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Free Cars. (Score:4, Interesting)
The companies would buy at large fleet discounts and offer safer vehicles.
Potentially they could use their lobby to get government to give them insentive credits on using certain better energy resources/methods that are currently stalled.
Oh yeah and they could offer free music too.