SonicBlue (Replay/Rio) Bought By D&M

An anonymous reader writes "Here's the announcement that many have been waiting for all week. Yesterday, the ReplayTV and Rio product lines of now-defunct SonicBlue were auctioned off in a bankruptcy court. Despite earlier negotiations failing to result in a deal, the Japanese holding company D&M, makers of high-end Denon and Marantz stereo gear, bought the product lines for $36.2 million. The big question is what about all of the "lifetime subscriptions" that people bought? No answers as of yet, but we can all be hopeful."

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[fewnorms]

They can't be very high end if I've never heard of them. Kenwood, Sony, Pioneer... those are high end. D&M sounds like the Apex of the audio world. Dude, you are probably not an audiophile. Denon and Marantz are related to the likes of Kenwood, Sony and Pioneer like a ferrari to a volkswagen. You probably also never heard of Quad or Nakamichi? heh ... now that's an audio system.

Re:That's not much money

[levik]

Not neccesarily. Don't forget that SonicBlue already *HAD* these product lines, and still went under. These may not be all that commercially viable.

The PVR market is still high end, still small and already saturated.

This is what scares me about these services....

[Flabby Boohoo]

"....what about all of the "lifetime subscriptions" that people bought?"

That is exactly why I have never taken the plunge. I don't want to invest in hardware that (more or less) requires the company to be around for it to work properly. For example, the only broadband options in my area are fixed point wireless. The problem is that I have to invest $500 in the hardware. What happens when they disappear in a year or two? I am stuck with useless hardware (unless someone else offers the service).

I guess the dot com mess is still fresh in my mind...

Re:Lifetime?

[deanj]

Well, not necessarily. When ReplayTV got bought out, the company went away, and the assests went to SonicBlue. They honored the lifetime agreement for ReplayTV owners.

Re:dial up for replaytv - not a few thousand

[ih8apple]

yeah, but how many of those are dial-up and how many are broadband?

Consider this:

1. When broadband support was first announced 3 years ago (after replaytv had been in business 2 years), the reasoning behind it was that over 85% of replaytv customers had broadband access at home (cable/dsl/isdn)

2. All of the devices since then have focused on broadband (any model 4000+)

I'm assuming that, at most, the dial up need is in the low 10's of thousands, not in the 100's of thousands

D&M made a good purchase

[steelerguy]

Both Denon and Marantz make pretty high quality products and some nice higher end audio and video equipment. This looks a nice aquisition for them so they can expand their product line in a nice progressive way. They already make good DVD players and receivers, now they can add a media center device that will allow DVR capabilities and MP3 music libraries.

I do have a feeling that they will somewhat support the Replay TV customers, but they will no do any additional development. My guess is they will come out with their own unit and offer Replay TV owners deep discounts if they trade in. They are not going to want to support someone else's service.

Re:Lifetime?

[Zathrus]

Well, not necessarily. When ReplayTV got bought out, the company went away, and the assests went to SonicBlue. They honored the lifetime agreement for ReplayTV owners.

Yes, but lifetime subscriptions are not an asset - they are a liability. The press release doesn't go into any detail, but I'd presume that D&M got saddled with the liabilities (court cases, outstanding debts, and lifetime subscriptions) as well as gaining the assets.

This is why $36.4M is not a "deal" by the way... and it's why they went under in the first place. They have far more liabilities than assets at this time.

D&M will be fine

[WIAKywbfatw]

Denon and Marantz has a very solid core business - home audio entertainment. It's a well-respected, much-loved brand.

The likelyhood of D&M running into financial difficulties is slim, simply because their traditional businesses are cash cows. Even if the SonicBlue division (whatever it ends up being called) makes a loss, D&M will be fine (short of some vey serious mismanagement).

It's like Microsoft and Hotmail - even if Hotmail was to sink like lead, the money that Microsoft makes from its other businesses would more than keep it afloat.

As someone else has said, $36.2 million to buy yourself a major slice of the PVR market (not to mention portable digital music players) is a steal.

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[Surreal_Streaker]

You know stuff where each mono-block amp costs more than the most expensive D&M box. Or when your system has a phono cartridge that costs 5-15,000 bucks, that's high-end.

I'd argue that when your system sounds good it is high end. Thousand dollar phono cartridges only guarantee that your system is expensive. High end systems take more than just money.

If it's anything like a "lifetime guarentee"...

[aerojad]

...those usually are void once the company goes under. You basically have a lifetime guarentee as long as the company is around, which is why it only really means something when the company has been around a long time, like Sears for example.

If the agreement is anything like that, the buyers of the assets can in theory say that since the original company is gone, they don't have to continue the service but they can offer them a new service, just like the old one, at a higher price.

Hi-fi elitism

[theLOUDroom]

I've already see a few posts on this topic that just made my stomach turn. Here's an example:

D&M isn't high end. It's more of a high-end of the low-end. Rotel, Krell, Sunfir, Mark Levinson, anything with vaccum tubes and the list goes on are more towards the middle and hugh end of the audiophile spectrum. You know stuff where each mono-block amp costs more than the most expensive D&M box. Or when your system has a phono cartridge that costs 5-15,000 bucks, that's high-end. But me, I'm happy with my Denon AVR-3803

Here's another one:

Dude, you are probably not an audiophile. Denon and Marantz are related to the likes of Kenwood, Sony and Pioneer like a ferrari to a volkswagen. You probably also never heard of Quad or Nakamichi? heh ... now that's an audio system.

I'm not an "audiophile" if by audiophile you mean "sucker." People who spend a ton of money on this stuff are buying some VERY overpriced equipment. Just because something is the most expensive in the world doesn't make it the best. And tubes? Yeah, you can make a good amp with tubes, but you can make just as good or better of and amp with transistors. (Guitar amps are a slightly different story.) Saying something has tubes, doesn't necessarily make it good.

I've decided to stick to pro-audio gear for all new audio purchases. There's just something stupid about spending $200 on unbalanced phono cables, but "audiophilies" have no problem with that. Nor do they seem to have a problem with $1000 speaker cables, etc.

If you're going to spend a ton of money on your audio system, I suggest you buy the same things a recording studio buys.

Just to show you guys are being a pompus asses, here's a brochure from quad:
here [iagamerica.com]
check out those power amp specs: 108 db SNR

Now lets go look at some pro gear:
Check out the specs. page [crownaudio.com] for this Crown amplifier.
SNR 120dB

People "in the know" don't buy that ridiculously overpriced "high end" stuff, they buy pro grear. It performs wonderfully, takes abuse, and costs less.

Re:Maybe I missed it

[SomeOtherGuy]

That was partially my point. (I am not a businessman) However, it does not take a businessman to understand the adage of not letting ones reach extend ones grasp. Their has to be some way (business model) for niche companies to provide products to smaller markets. Why does every technology company spend themseleves at the level that it would take the same kind of market penetration as TV's and Toasters in order to break even? Maybe the model would be to crank these things out of a "garage" until one can produce enough honest profit to deserve the amenities given to a proven company with a proven product. (Like I said -- I am not a businessman, but I do know software development for fortune 500 companies -- and we learned years ago that the "If we build it, they will come" is a very risky approach.

Re:Hi-fi elitism

[mkldev]

Exactly. The definition of high-end depends on who you are.

For average audio users, companies like Kenwood and Pioneer are seen as (relatively) high-end.

For audio engineers and other people with discerning ears, Denon, Marantz, Nakamichi, etc. are seen as high-end.

For the folks who blindly believe that they can hear the difference between 48 KHz and 96 KHz audio or between a $5 cable and a $1500 cable, there are plenty of even more expensive brands that are considered high-end....

For people with good ears, Denon and Marantz are high-end. For the rest of you, there's Mastercard.

Re:Hi-fi elitism

[Anonymous Coward]

Not like this has anything to do with the article. Yer tho thmart.