Cheap Audio Production 716
OneInEveryCrowd writes "Rolling Stone reports that four out of five new albums are now produced by a program called Pro Tools (or similar packages) that costs $495 for the home version or $15,000 for the pro version. The article describes a fairly amazing savings in time and effort compared to the older ways of producing an album. I realize that a talented producer can cost a lot of money and some bands drink a lot of beer, but why aren't the benefits of lower production costs being passed on to the consumer?"
A Link (Score:5, Informative)
Re:simple! (Score:2, Informative)
Because, as the article states, Incubus is renting a Malibu beach house to record their albums.
Maybe not as expensive as a studio, but not too cheap either.
studio costs not the problem - marketing is (Score:2, Informative)
most $ the record companies spend covers marketing and their losses on the releases that fail (which is somewhere around 9 out of 10).
An Free alternative (Score:5, Informative)
(at least it's being worked on, anyway)
http://ardour.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net].
Basic economics, my friend (Score:3, Informative)
Because the costs of production to a certain degree are not related to the cost of selling a thing, particularly in a monopoly situation.
The cost of an item is realated to how much a buyer is willing to pay for it.
That is, if you make an operating system, it doesn't matter that you spend a billion dollars developing it, if you can get Windows XP for $200, then that's your price point.
So as a producer, you have to get your production costs in line with your selling price in order to make money.
However, if you have a monopoly, your pricing is basically unlimited to the degree that people can't feasibly switch away.
To put it in terms that are realted to the article, if consumers have indicated a willingness to pay $16 for a CD, then you'd be stupid to charge less. And since each "Group" is essentially a monopoly, there is no price competition to speak of.
So in that case, if you save on the costs of production, you simply make more money.
That's not evil or wrong. That's simply what you do.
Re:ProTools is a large reason modern music sucks (Score:3, Informative)
This isn't a new phenomenon. There was a recent show on VH1 discussing how this was done on the old KISS double-live album [vh1.com] from the 70's. They went into the studio and overdubbed certain parts to tighten up the music and gloss over mistakes.
Um... (Score:3, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What does it do? (Score:1, Informative)
These programs are amazing. As an electronic artist, you can probably do 90% of your music creation through these programs (although, most artists don't). That and... it's cheap.
Re:What does it do? (Score:5, Informative)
So yeah, there are a lot of programs that do this. But Pro Tools is, and has been for a decade, the industry standard in professional hard disk recording systems. Some great things you can do with a Pro Tools setup:
The basic thing is, Rolling Stone is finally catching on to the what musicians have been doing in the mainstream for about 7 years now, and that's completely tapeless recording, and the move of recording out of the studio and into other places. There are enough plugins out there to clean up sound from even very noisy areas, so the need for a completely silent "studio" is much less. Studios are definitely going out of business as a result of this move to home-studio-based recording, and ProTools is generally a compatability requirement.
Me, I use Cakewalk Sonar at home, and this is one area where no free software product yet comes close. I'm on the Ardour mailing list, and use Ardour periodically to see how it's coming along, but definitely nothing there yet to replace my studio setup.
So to answer your question, Pro Tools is simply one of many hard-disk recording packages. However, among professionals it is the most widely used, and boasts a much larger library of compatible software than any competitor. Oh, and until about 4 years ago, it was Mac-only.
Re:ProTools is a large reason modern music sucks (Score:1, Informative)
errrr... that's a vocoder, and the effect is intentional... pitch correctors have been around for decades (since the 80's at least to my recollection) and mature for quite awhile...
Pro Tools is just what the name implies... a suite of tools.. how the user chooses to use them is, well, up to them...
What planet are you from? (Score:2, Informative)
but why aren't the benefits of lower production costs being passed on to the consumer?
On this planet the recording industry is pretty well known for being [com.com]
greedy. I feel they have been ripping me off for years. When CD's came out they cost twice what an LP or Cassette did. They said that was because they had to build new plants to produce CD's and as soon as they were built and the quantities went up the prices would come down. Well maybe I blinked and missed it, but I never saw a major reduction and I think $18.99 for a single album is outrageous. I refuse to pay that much for a CD. I usually wait and try to find it in the cut-out or used bins.
A few years ago I was involved in a business that sold used CD's and we did some new CD's. From the distributor we could buy new releases for around $12 and super savers were around $10. I am guessing that the distributor only made a dollar or two so that means that the record company was getting $8-$10 per unit. From having checked into producing a CD I could have one made with quantites of 1000 for less than 2$. Therefore I would bet that they can produce the CD's for less than $1 for quantites > 10,000. So lets say they make $8 per cd. To me that's a pretty good profit margin.
I'm also under the impression that they rip the (non-superstar) [janisian.com]
artists off.
Bottom Line: I'm not holding my breath waiting for a little savings on production costs to be passed back to me.
Re:They are as yet...u n a w a r e (Score:3, Informative)
Re:ProTools is a large reason modern music sucks (Score:3, Informative)
They have just about every tool in the biz at their disposal but, with the arrival of the "corporate rock" mindset of the early 80's, it's more about figuring out the optimal sonic product that the market will buy and then supplying it over and over until the tastes of the market change.
I can attest to the overvaluation of producers. (Score:2, Informative)
Keep in mind we have no idea how to run the program in the first place.
So, why should I have to pay $20 a CD? I realize with more instruments, there would be more work to do, but this really says a lot: Production is overrated.
I've been backing away from idealism lately, but I honestly think that once more and more amateur musicians get these sorts of programs, it will become common knowledge that it honestly is NOTHING to record decent-sounding music. A professional will be able to make the final touches that Jasbir and I could never make. However, even assuming that this person is salaried at $200,000 a year, this DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE PRICE OF MUSIC.
End of rant.
Re:ProTools is a large reason modern music sucks (Score:1, Informative)
"it's depressing how such a featureful tool is used mainly for evil."
Re:crippleware (Score:2, Informative)
read more
http://www.digidesign.com/ptfree/ptfree_qa.html [digidesign.com]
in general, the midi implementation in protools is limited compared to emagic's logic audio [emagic.de]
other really good music production suites that won't break the home studio bank
Tracktion [rawmaterialsoftware.com]
Fruity Loops [flstudio.com]
Reason [propellerheads.se]
some electronic music producers who use the big software tools occasionally screw around with the cheaper packages and then show how you can make the original song using them - such is the case with Infected Mushroom's "Dancing with Kadafi"
http://www.infected-mushroom.net/Studio/Html/Stud
Re:Passing Savings to Consumers (Score:2, Informative)
PT and overcompression (Score:5, Informative)
Well, the over-compression issued mentioned by grand-parent is seriously encouraged by ProTools... ProTools does not do logarhythmic metering - it does linear metering. As a result, 3 dB down from full amplitude (which is 1/2 the power) is 1/2 of the range in the edit window for a track. Down 6 dB is 1/4. Down 9 dB is 1/8. Down 12 dB is 1/16th of the window - and that's the average volume you SHOULD be at (for pop... SMPTE standard is to go down to -18 dB FS for 0 VU). However, do that, and it barely looks like you've recorded anything. As a result, ProTools users are encouraged to record too hot, with too much compression/limiting.
That's just ONE of the flaws of ProTools (can we say clicks and pops due to not finding zero crossings or doing automatic crossfades? yeah...)
-T
Re:ProTools is a large reason modern music sucks (Score:3, Informative)
Sorry, no - compression makes everything louder (compresses the dynamic range). It does not 'quiet' the less prevelant sounds. That would be expansion, which is entirely different.
Also, uncompressed audio doesn't tend to sound flat and static - it might sound less punchy, but think of a classical symphony that goes between pianissimo and fortissimo... is that flat and static? Nope. However, compress it so that it only goes between forte and fortissimo. Now, it's flat. Punchy, but flat.
-T
PTFree = a joke (Score:3, Informative)
However, check out Audacity [sourceforge.net] for a good, free, cross-platform product.
-T
Re:Alsihad (Score:3, Informative)
Their glossary of terms [prosoundweb.com] has the full definition:
Alsihad: A recording platform that is used to destroy music in general. It makes musicians lazy and sounds like crap too. Some express their unabashed love for Alsihad, these are typically Alsihah (ones who operate Alsihad). Those that express a lack of enjoyment for Alsihad are typically Luddites (those that shun the forward advancement of technology). While Luddites and Alsihah can be best of friends, the more vocal ones are typically at odds with each other, and can't understand what the hell the other is thinking about.
Alsihah: One who operates Alsihad.
It's apparantly called that because if you don't have anything better to record with, it's "All's I Had".
-S
Compression? Don't blame Pro-Tools (Score:3, Informative)
The Death of Dynamic Range [raritanval.edu]
CD "Hypercompression" Caught in the Act [raritanval.edu]
of course there's competition (Score:5, Informative)
"there is no alternative to brand X, and only one company sells brand X, so there is no viable competition. Therefore, the company can set pretty much any price it wants."
Yep, in a very basic, Econ 101 way of thinking, this is entirely true - up to a point, of course (i.e., where price exceeds consumer desire to purchase). If you have no viable competition you're in a monopoly position (corporate oligarchy, for the RIAA) and you can price fix all you like. So long as you don't raise the price beyond what the consumer will bear you can rake in the profit every time production costs decline.
What folks are missing is that competition isn't limited to these simplistic factors. As price approaches the limit that the consumer will bear, alternate methods of distribution will be developed to satisfy the desires of consumers who wish to purchase the product, but not at the price set by the monopoly. These are known as 'black markets' because they distribute the product without the sanction of the monopoly (and in contravention to law) and at a lower price than the monopoly itself (for goods that *can* be distributed at all - obviously, SAMs and the like will cost more just because distribution exists at all).
The more 'unjust' the price of a product is gauged to be, the larger and more developed a black market becomes. That is, each time you jack up the price of the product (or refuse to lower the price, when production costs decline), more and more of your consumers pass the point where the price is something they're willing to bear - whether or not they can afford the price. If percentage A of consumers find a CD ridiculously overpriced at $15 a pop, this percentage will turn to the black market for its needs. If percentage B of consumers find the price of the CD too much at $16, now percentage A + percentage B turns to the black market, and so on, minus those who simply stop purchasing in any form whatsoever.
(Note: there will also be a certain subset of consumers who find the only acceptable price to be 0. But unlike what many slashdotters seem to believe, in practice this subset is always tiny and has no observable effect on the market for that product. This isn't speculation, it's fact - do some research if you need it spelled out for you. People aren't by nature thieves, and an enormous amount of economic and psychological evidence bears this out; if you think otherwise, this isn't a statement about the character of the human race, but your character.)
The higher the price goes, and the more unjust that price seems to be, the more your consumers turn to the black market instead of buying from the monopoly. This has nothing to do with ethics or morals regardless of what ranting slashdotter decides to scream 'theft!' in response to this post. The fact is, increasing consumer use of the black market is an economic indicator that the product is overpriced and needs to be reduced in cost to the consumer. It's the economic form of 'civil disobedience'; when the powers that be don't listen to your complaints, you take action that hits them where it counts to drive your point home. Even if you yourself are unaware of the results of your actions (you just want cheaper CDs and don't care about the ramifications), from an economic point of view the group that turns to the black market is making a very clear statement about the price of the product provided by the monopoly, whether or not the individuals of that group care a whit one way or another about anything beyond buying the CD for less than the list price.
Unfortunately for the RIAA, there exists a 'black market' in the form of file sharing that makes turning to an alternative distribution source easier than ever before in history. While short-sighted twerps post on slashdot, going on and on about 'stealing' and 'piracy' and whatnot, this
Re:ProTools is a large reason modern music sucks (Score:2, Informative)
A *real* vocoder is a device that takes an audio input and changes the spectral dynamics of the sound in response to a "modulator" input. Use a analog sawtooth waveform at a low pitch for your input, then feed your voice into the modulator, and you'll sound like a Cylon from "Battlestar Galactica". See also: Kraftwerk.
The reality behind the scenes... (Score:1, Informative)
Don't knock CEP (Score:1, Informative)
It seems obvious, but ... (Score:3, Informative)
Like what you have to buy to get the program to work. Let's start with a computer, in the interest of brevity.
Any old computer? Nope. How about my brand-new multigahertz PC wonder? Probably not. You have to run it on a ProTools approved system. One reason why a whole bunch of audio is still done with Macs; once it's all said and done, Macs and PCs for audio (at this level) cost the same, maybe even less.
Like all the other stuff you have to buy. Including ProTools hardware; a bunch of extra software, and the rest of the stuff that makes a recording studio what it is. Singers are blowing through microphones that cost thousands of dollars and explode if you look at them funny (well, maybe not that easy; singing too close, or dropping them even once, maybe a hard bump, that will do it. Spend $5K).
Wages, wages, wages. Heat, rent, electricity. A cable inventory that's worth more than your car. You know, the usual stuff. When it comes right down to it, you could get the software for free* and it still wouldn't make much difference in the bill.
Now, many musicians are on the edge and do some great things with (only) many thousands of dollars invensted. Don't expect to see their efforts in a major label release though; if they get signed the record company is going to send them back to do it again, with the big buck guys. And yes, you can hear the difference.
As to the question why the product hasn't gone down in price, the answer is it has. I used to pay $10-16 for LP records. According to this [westegg.com] inflation calculator, that translates as $33.73 to $53.96 (1975-2000, US). I won't go into about how the music industry has been trying to get us to pay $25 since the early 80's, suffice to say consumer resistance has tended to curb their periodic attempts to raise the retail price.
* Get ProTools Free direct from Digidesign here (Win98/Me & MacOS9): Digidesign [digidesign.com] It will run on less critical hardware, and is a functional but somewhat limited version of the paid programs. Don't expect your next CD to cost $0 to finish.
Read the System Requirements here:
Windows XP [digidesign.com]
For those of you who would rather not click the link here's an example (there's a lot of requirements, but whatever):
The only fully approved CPU's are Compaq EVO W2000, an IBM Intellistation M Pro model 6850 or Intellistation Z Pro model 6221, and a Turnkey solution from a company called Carillion. Don't be expecting to run Quake and MS Office on this box either, it will probably break the audio hardware functionality. You can run it with any G4/AGP/OSX Mac though (although that's not all you'll need, on either platform).