60G Nomad Zen vs. The iPod 673
war3rd writes "According to an article in BetaNews, Creative is going to be releasing an upgraded Nomad Zen at the end of the month that is not only larger than the iPod, but cheaper too. At $400 for 60G ($100 less than the 30G iPod), the new Zen will sport more features, although it may be slightly larger than the newer generation of iPods. I have been putting off buying an MP3 player until I felt that the arms race was settling down, but the new Zen is making my mouth water. So what does the /. community think, are Creative and Apple going to be the top players in this arena? Is it time I jumped onto the bandwagon? One thing is for certain, I am going to be watching the reviews closely."
Does size matter? (Score:2, Insightful)
It is both larger and maybe slightly larger! (Score:5, Insightful)
Can it record? (Score:4, Insightful)
Who needs 60 gigs? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think one no longer should judge the players by storage capacity, as they both have plenty. If you look at the user interface and design, no-one even comes close to the iPod! And now Apple is even developing iTunes for windows as well, so soon winPod users will be able to use the best media player available!
Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
See, I've used Creative audio products since the days of the original SoundBlaster... and Creative really doesn't do as good of a job as they used to. These days they have horrible drivers, false advertising, and practically nonexistent tech support. They release a new driver update around every six MONTHS, even when there are dozens of outstanding bugs to fix; and cards like the Audigy barely did half of the things they advertised on the box and on websites.
So anyway, this thing sounds cool... but if I were you, I wouldn't buy one without finding out a LOT about it and making sure I'm really getting my money's worth. You really can't trust Creative anymore.
Creative? No Way. (Score:3, Insightful)
Since the Live!, Everything of their's I've purchased and/or used has been flakey: 3/4 of the way done, but never quite all the way.
I'm a person who doesn't like to settle for "good enough", and Creative's stuff is consistently a notch below "good enough" for me.
At this point I can't imagine anything coming close to the iPod in terms of usability, features, or aesthetics. Certainly not anything from Creative.
Re:iPod (Score:2, Insightful)
That, and all this AAC stuff... is a 128kb AAC really as great as Apple insists? From what I've read, it is better than a 128kb MP3, but if you're ripping a decent VBR MP3 then it really isn't any better. That, and MP3s are, well, compatible on with hardware and software. AAC won't be a selling point until I can play them as easily as I can play MP3s, and that'll be awhile yet (seeing as how I'm not a Mac user).
Big enough? (Score:3, Insightful)
I know someone will say they have 30 gig of tunes and want all of it all the time. This to me is simple geek nonsense. You can't listen to that much in a reasonable fashion. Further needing it all probably says more about poor software and hardware than anything else. (IMO)
I use my iPod in my car and at the gym and at work. (To drown out my co-worker's Rush Limbaugh at times) I honestly can't imagine *why* you need more than perhaps 20 gig. I honestly can't.
If you are using it as a portable hard drive then, OK. I can understand. But the reason I like the iPod is that while it functions as a small hard drive for a few files, it is primarily a *player*.
Re:All i want (Score:4, Insightful)
This isn't that complicated... (Score:5, Insightful)
-The size of today's ipod or smaller
-Storage capacity of 5GB+
-FM Radio (I like to get NPR without carrying around a seperate device)
-Good sound quality
-Formats: MP3, WMA, AAC, and OGG
-Price: $250
I think this is easily achievable with today's technology. My money awaits the first company to make one.
Zen almost gets it but too big. IPod almost gets it but no FM tuner.
Re:Does size matter? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Size matters (Score:2, Insightful)
Consider this:
1.3*1.3*1.3=2.197
So a 30% increase in each of the dimensions could more than double the volume of an object.
As for the increased mass, just consider that it is probably carrying around double the platters of the iPod, and an internal disk drive enclosure to hold them.
All in all, I'd still call it only "slightly larger," and I'd definately deal with the bulk for the added benefits of storage and price.
Re:Zen Looks Great (Score:5, Insightful)
I understand this... I used to believe it too. The error is in assuming that the alternatives are all essentially equal... all mp3 players play mp3's, and computers are equal save for the speed of the processor.
That's not the case. I can't explain it other than saying that there is a design quality and esthetic that is different in the Apple products. You won't believe it until you own one, but once you do, you understand the price difference, and realize it is negligible... that in fact all MP3 players are not the same. All computers are not the same.
I boycotted XP and switched to Mac, while cursing the increased cost. Not any more. I recognize the difference between my Mac and my PC, and I know the differences are well in excess of the cost.
Same is true with my iPod. It's the 3rd MP3 device I've owned, and it's cheaper compared to buying other devices, not using them, and having to re-buy an iPod.
That's my take. Hate to sound like a ravenous Mac-head, but... well... I am one. Now.
Re:60 Gb is pretty nifty (Score:1, Insightful)
iFM -- FM tuner for the iPod (Score:2, Insightful)
I've been lusting after an iPod for a while now, but one of my reservations was a lack of an FM tuner. However, it seems that may be solved with the iFM [griffintechnology.com]. Griffin products have been favorably reviewed at iPod Web sites, so with luck the iFM will be of good quality.
Why you want huge disks (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's why: Imagine you have 40 GB of tunes (not that many once you rip them at good quality, and you finish doing all your cd's). Now imagine you have a 20 GB player. It's all well and fun to carry half your tunes around, but you find yourself saying 'what about CD X'? No problem, just put it on the player. But first you need to remove another CD. And once you have thousands of tracks, and start getting sick of some CD's and want to rotate in others, you realize it's a Massive Pain In The Ass. After a few gigs, the ideal is to just have all your music and skip the rigamarole. The alternative is to just never get around to listening to half your music which is the problem I was trying to avoid in buying an iPod in the first place (swapping CD's from my storage binders to my little travel binder).
Re:Big enough? (Score:1, Insightful)
You're right that I probably never need more than a few hundred megabytes in a day but it's nice to know that the few hundred I want will always be the ones that I have.
Re:iPod (Score:3, Insightful)
Just because you can't fill 60 Gigs with music doesn't mean there is nobody who can fill 60 Gigs. If an average CD is about 50 MB of MP3 files, that is 1200 CDs for 60 Gigs. I'm sure I'm not the only person here with more than 1200 CDs. On other boards I've been on, some have more than 3000 CDs.
Do you need to have access to all of your CDs everywhere you? Of course not. But there will come a day when you install 1199 CDs on your portable because you don't want to install that 1200th CD, and then you realize that the CD you really want to listen to is the one you didn't put on your MP3 player.
Re:What about the "Sonicblue" box? (r.i.p) (Score:2, Insightful)
So, if you like your portables 100Mbit ethernet enabled, with built-in webservers and java management apps (plus USB2.0 and the usual PC stuff), plus funky OGG playing, crossfading, parametric EQ, etc etc then wait for the Pearl. It has a dock with real RCAs on it, too, alongside that oh-so-cute RJ45...
Re:Price (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not a big OGG guy myself, but I wonder why manufacturers aren't including OGG support in their players? It's royalty free so it seems like a win-win situation to me. Doesn't cost them anything to include it except a little more R&D maybe, and it's going to attract at least a few more people.
Any thoughts?
Re:Article (Score:5, Insightful)
The new On-The-Go playlists for the iPod allow you to add songs to the playlist and clear playlists. When you plug the iPod into your Mac for syncing, the On-The-Go playlist is automatically wiped.
On the Nomad, you can not only create playlists, but you can name them, and they will persist on the device. I don't know about the software for Windows but I assume it syncs back the playlists from the Nomad.
Now, I love my iPod; I bought a 10G iPod last August and just bought a 30G one when they came out last week. That said, nobody benefits from this kind of rabid, ill-informed advocacy.
Next time you want to make an argument for the iPod against the Nomad, make sure you have all the facts. If you're not willing to do that, don't waste people's time.
Drag and drop, shmrag and pop. (Score:5, Insightful)
For data files, yeah, I guess I have to do the drag and drop. But for music, I'll stick to "plug and un-plug"
While I prefer the iPod, I enjoy the competition because it only make both products better in the long run. And that benefits me, and isn't that what it is all about?
Re:Big enough? (Score:2, Insightful)
Who are you to dictate what's reasonable?
I have 41G of MP3s; well over 5000 songs, but I forget the exact number. I like to load the whole thing up on random and listen as I muck around on my computer. Why is that unreasonable? Just because you personally might prefer your music to have a theme-of-the-week doesn't mean I do.
I like to have all of my music avialable because I don't know this morning what this evening's mood will be. Is it techno? Classical? Metal? Folk? I'd rather have it all available and only listen to some of it than have some of it available and want to listen to something else.
Having your music take up a lot of disk space is not "simple geek nonsense"; it's a preference for variety and accessability.
If I'm going to run multiple OSes, I have a choice of two machines, each running one OS, or one machine, dual-booting (or running VMWare). One choice allows me instant, fast access to both operating systems; the other is less convenient. I choose convenience. How is making sure that you have access to all your mp3s any different?
Re:Big enough? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is nothing new. How many times have we heard " is enough for anyone". Time almost always proves such staters incorrect. I replace my first HDD within 2 weeks because 20Mb wasn't enough. The 30Mb I got to replace it filled quickly and needed I more but couldn't afford it. This cycle has been repeated for for aboput 17 years now.
Caveat Emptor
creeping featurism (Score:5, Insightful)
On my computer, I organize my MP3s using the file system. E.g., if I want to listen to "Dark Side of the Moon", it's in "music/rock/Pink Floyd/Dark Side of the Moon". I've got xmms open, and I keep the "add dir" window opened, which has a nice tree view, so to play an album, I simply double click on it in that window, and hit play over in the main window.
So, for an MP3 player, I just want something that I can copy my music directory to, and then access via a simple interface.
This is what I like about my Archos 15 gig, which was $180. It simply works the way I do...it doesn't ask me to buy into some grand unified vision of music management like the others seem to.
Re:Viva la Zen!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
60 GB is worthless if the software sucks. The integration between iTunes, iSync, and the iPod make for an excellent product that I don't have to spend any extra time fiddling with to get it to work.
Judging from other posts here, and on the source article, it seems like existing and prior Nomad Zen products aren't exactly all they're cracked up to be.
You pay more for high quality stuff, and the iPod _is_ high quality. Its not perfect, but what is?
right on the money (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Drag and drop, shmrag and pop. (Score:3, Insightful)
A Wal-Mart subset of the iTunes Music Store will be in the next AOL client.
Please don't say "death" and "Apple" in the same sentence unless it is something that actually has happened and is a fact. I mean, we've heard it all before.
Also, the service is already successful. They sold more songs in the first day than all the other paid download services ever built COMBINED. That was just halfway through the first day, actually. And the new 3rd generation iPod sold 250,000 pre-orders in the four days between announcement and release date.
The numbers on Apple's stuff here are music business size numbers, not dot-com size numbers like all the other stuff out there.
Re:Price (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:iPod (Score:3, Insightful)
You realise that WMA is actually very high quality right? They had some seriously smart bunnies work on the Windows Media codecs. I don't know how it compares to AAC, but I know it blows MP3 away, so I'd guess it's strongly competitive.
What you say? It's a proprietary format? Yup, but hey, if you pay the right price Microsoft will license it to you - just like with AAC. Oh and they both have some kind of DRM too.
Re:Price (Score:3, Insightful)
You have to balance the amount of money it costs on development against the number of new users it'll attract.
Outside the /. community - that number is extremely low compaired to MP3. Hell, probably even in the /. community the number is rather low (they're just very vocal).
Therefore companies find it very difficult to justify this sort of cost for very little gain - especially to the finance department.
Re:Drag and drop, shmrag and pop. (Score:3, Insightful)
For 98% of the population a "five line USB hotplug script" is rocket science and a complex programming effort.
"Normal" users should even need to think about this sort of stuff.